The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release

[Azrael]

We need to start being fair - the guy hosting it was a truck driver.

He had the money to stand up a server and did so - he is not a lawyer and isn't a server person. There is a reason I said that I wanted to wait until September 1 to start a server up - not that I wouldn't want to beta test it earlier. The magic the community worked on the code and networking side of things is incredible.

Costs of a couple thousand a month could easily be reduced to a couple hundred a month once the code is re-written. It is being re-written, what we got is a small taste and an alpha test. In a couple of months the code could be ported to modern database programs - like LUA and moving to SQL Server 2019 and porting from 32bit to 64bit and opening up memory addressing. I know they were converting to SQL 2010 and then the port to 2019 is easier.

I don't see this as anything but an excited amateur dabbling in running a server and the community freaking out with excitement. It shows the game is still wanted and will be played. We were running in to the coders nightmare - customers and owners screaming we want it better NOW! All while they worked every waking hour.

I respect those folks so much and they are the unsung heroes. I saw multiple people who had coded for the entire weekend - not sleeping saying, I need to sleep I can't read what I typed. I want them to slow down - get it right and build us something that will last for another 10 years, not one weekend.

It'll come.  We just have to be patient.  Hard to be.  That little taste of the pie...and it was complete blood lust.  Engorgement.  The whole works.  The memories came flooding back.

I feel calmer now, though.  Lol.

Passion.  The CoH community is alive and well.

40 hours.  Without sleep.  I'm terrible if I get 6 instead of 9 hrs sleep.  The shock of the game being alive.  The outpouring of emotion.  The sheer desperation to get it working again.  The exhilaration of playing.  (Towards the last day it seemed to be playing just as good as the original live server.  Teaming. Sweeping.  Powers.  Mobbs.  Combat.  Frostfire.  Globals...loads standing around Ms. Atlas...  It was like a surreal dream.)

Thank you for the post, Ironwolf.  It gives us 'non technical' heads some understanding and perspective.  Something many in the Discord channel aren't getting.  One whisper there and it's suddenly a bush fire.

It puts things into perspective.

Azrael.

[summers]

We need to start being fair - the guy hosting it was a truck driver.

He had the money to stand up a server and did so - he is not a lawyer and isn't a server person. There is a reason I said that I wanted to wait until September 1 to start a server up - not that I wouldn't want to beta test it earlier. The magic the community worked on the code and networking side of things is incredible.

Costs of a couple thousand a month could easily be reduced to a couple hundred a month once the code is re-written. It is being re-written, what we got is a small taste and an alpha test. In a couple of months the code could be ported to modern database programs - like LUA and moving to SQL Server 2019 and porting from 32bit to 64bit and opening up memory addressing. I know they were converting to SQL 2010 and then the port to 2019 is easier.

I don't see this as anything but an excited amateur dabbling in running a server and the community freaking out with excitement. It shows the game is still wanted and will be played. We were running in to the coders nightmare - customers and owners screaming we want it better NOW! All while they worked every waking hour.

I respect those folks so much and they are the unsung heroes. I saw multiple people who had coded for the entire weekend - not sleeping saying, I need to sleep I can't read what I typed. I want them to slow down - get it right and build us something that will last for another 10 years, not one weekend.

It's super exciting times but we were always going to be in for a rocky start. There's so many people with different expectations, and different beliefs about how a server should be run, that fracturing would always happen. What I hope more than anything is that the code and binaries (is that the right term?) has wide enough distribution that no matter what may happen, we have a future.

When that is secure, I'll be very happy, and I know our community and our game will make it

Until then, there will be teams of people who have never worked together who don't know each other amidst a community up to their eyeballs in drama and internet weirdism

[Azrael]

He got trolled by someone on the internet - who would think it?

Let reality sink in - the code while playable needs work. The coders expected it to take 2 or 3 months to optimize it for modern servers. It was a little taste but really better code means less resources to run it.

It could easily get to where you could rent a server for under a $100 a month.

So, the source code is still being optimised and the work on that will be ongoing to get it to run requiring less kit.  i24 optimised is the holy grail.  The sooner I can run it on my home pc the better.

The taste was heavenly.

I can't wait for the full banquet.  The one where the whole community can sit around as 'head of the table.'

Azrael.

[Dev7on]

We need to start being fair - the guy hosting it was a truck driver.

He had the money to stand up a server and did so - he is not a lawyer and isn't a server person. There is a reason I said that I wanted to wait until September 1 to start a server up - not that I wouldn't want to beta test it earlier. The magic the community worked on the code and networking side of things is incredible.

Costs of a couple thousand a month could easily be reduced to a couple hundred a month once the code is re-written. It is being re-written, what we got is a small taste and an alpha test. In a couple of months the code could be ported to modern database programs - like LUA and moving to SQL Server 2019 and porting from 32bit to 64bit and opening up memory addressing. I know they were converting to SQL 2010 and then the port to 2019 is easier.

I don't see this as anything but an excited amateur dabbling in running a server and the community freaking out with excitement. It shows the game is still wanted and will be played. We were running in to the coders nightmare - customers and owners screaming we want it better NOW! All while they worked every waking hour.

I respect those folks so much and they are the unsung heroes. I saw multiple people who had coded for the entire weekend - not sleeping saying, I need to sleep I can't read what I typed. I want them to slow down - get it right and build us something that will last for another 10 years, not one weekend.

OMG! THIS IS A SIGN OF RELIEF! I FEEL A LITTLE BETTER NOW. Man, I was freaking out. I couldn't even go to sleep. So....to my understanding it was just a test server?

[Ironwolf]

It's super exciting times but we were always going to be in for a rocky start. There's so many people with different expectations, and different beliefs about how a server should be run, that fracturing would always happen. What I hope more than anything is that the code and binaries (is that the right term?) has wide enough distribution that no matter what may happen, we have a future.

When that is secure, I'll be very happy, and I know our community and our game will make it

Until then, there will be teams of people who have never worked together who don't know each other amidst a community up to their eyeballs in drama and internet weirdism

1. You have server code for the backbone of the game and its often called a map server. The map server creates the world, movement and powers.
2. You have the binaries or bins that record what you do and call to databases to dictate the map servers reaction.

The two are separate and work together to give you the game. Currently we have:
1. i24 map server code - the original
2. SCoRE server code with modified i24 code and both Bins and Map server.

Now the i24 original code is more stable and causes errors when they put the ScoRE Bins on the default code. What was run this weekend was the i25 code and as you saw it was being bandaided on the fly and went from 200 players in laggy conditions to 3,000 players pretty smooth. However the old code was for 2004 servers and the hardware we have now wasn't even a dream then. If the code is converted to run on modern hardware and database methods it will be extremely cheap to maintain.

You got a taste and you got to see for yourself it will work. Time now is our friend. The code is not gone and people are still working on it - the only thing likely lost was the bandaids applied on the first server to get it going - no villains here - just humans.

[kiario]

The weekend has shown that a fully working version of coh is very possible.
Saturday and Sunday it performed flawlessly.

I can understand that it has been some very intensive hours for all the poeple working to get it online.
Not the least because they are as excited as us to see the game alive again.

Mistakes happen, we just need to learn from them and take it easy and be friendly to each other, even to those we disagree with.

[Ironwolf]

OMG! THIS IS A SIGN OF RELIEF! I FEEL A LITTLE BETTER NOW. Man, I was freaking out. I couldn't even go to sleep. So....to my understanding it was just a test server?

It always was. They were going to wipe everything on Thursday the 27th and implement newer code to streamline it even better. The game is being made better - let the coders and server guys do their thing and it will get sorted.

Honestly it is throwing money away to run the server as inefficient as it was. If you got in early and compared it to how it ran Sunday night - it was hugely different and that is just patching it - not a re-write.

[Codewalker]

If the code is converted to run on modern hardware and database methods it will be extremely cheap to maintain.

Tbh, I've heard that before, and 6 years later here we are.

It's worth trying but honestly I think the early estimates of reducing costs by an order of magnitude are a bit premature and overly optimisitic. Looking at the code for a big project and getting ideas is one thing, actually implementing them without breaking everything is another, especially for a loose collection of people not familiar with it.

Within a reasonable timeframe I'd expect maybe a 25-30% reduction in cost, most of it just due to better hardware. Running a small server for a handful of people on a single box is already feasible, but if you want to host hundreds or thousands, you're going to need a big setup.

[Ironwolf]

I know one person was converting to SQL 2019 directly but figured that it would take 2 months.

Others were finding going to SQL 2010 was easier and they were working on that and then were going to try moving to 2019.

However it happens I expect to see a more streamlined version but as someone above stated the future of this game is in smaller servers where you pay much less but can only host for 100 - 200 people.

I am not sure the donations will cover a $5,000 a month setup. I know once I get one going I am going to pay for the initial setup myself and once I know what the monthly costs are I can then post it on the server website the exact breakdown.

[Sinistar]

I don't like the "Pay 2 Win" vendor.  I don't want to break immersion that way.

Hm well th y could set it where all veteren reward weapons and powers are given to you when your new alt logs in

[Abraxus]

This is all much more encouraging than the raging turmoil going on in Reddit, and Discord. 

Thanks for that!

[Artillerie]

The Titan Network is a calm centre of reason. Such a relief to read through the opinions and information provided here than the alternatives - although i read most of them too... A great deal of thanks to those who run this and the people who add to it.

That being said, people have expressed their disappointment at the less restrained voices being heard in other forums. People giving in to frustration are not to be encouraged but i believe them to be a very small proportion of the community. Given any large group, a certain number will be prone to troublemaking. It is really not worth being upset by this as it is rather inevitable. Not all of them are driven by malice, some of them will be driven by poor impulse control, feeling of powerlessness or emotional problems.

Anyway, i had great fun playing at the weekend and catching up with some old friends. Here's to the next time.

[Azrael]

Running a small server for a handful of people on a single box is already feasible,

I was getting worried you'd been hit by a bus.  Good to see you post.

Frankly, I only ever played with up to '8' people at a time.  I actually preferred playing the game with my duo-partner.  (Sure, I did random PUGs....and the background chatter and visuals of loads of heroes zipping about it fun to see...)

But a 'small server' for a 'handful of people' (5 was the optimal number for old rig so I never really liked teams bigger than that...) being feasible is music to my ears.  That's all I want.

I'd be quite happy with that right now.  I only want 'solo/local LAN/small server' p2p capacity.

I know it's not my IP, I don't want to rup NC's nose in it.

Quite happy to fly below the radar with inter-connected nodes of 'small' servers that can p2p.  I'd be quite happy running a small bijou server for me and my mate.  CoH small server clusters of people running 'Homer Simpson Home brew' (ie something I can run...myself...) really democratises the CoH experience for the community.  'Something' like Paragon Chat where you have 25-50 regulars would be fine by me.  Intimate. 

In fact, my gut instinct told me that was the next stage of Paragon Chat, a small server that was reverse engineered from the official live server.  Or using that live server code to give Paragon Chat that capability.  But the timeline hinted at being passed over to a new program that had combat 'speak' io.

The '3000' experimental 'test' server was great to taste.  But I always thought it was vulnerable to a take down from a C&D.  Sure, they'll be 'larger communities.'  And they'll probably take the lead in modding it and sheer force of numbers will get mod' tools out for 'us mortals' to play with.

The code is out there now.  But there's still the challenge of making it more efficient, to bundle it up and get a 'human' interface on it so mortals can run a 'home brew' specs.

We've now got 32 core pcs with 16 gig gpus and 32 gigs of ram etc.  SSD 1TB HDs.  Dream specs. 

With the full force of a coh coding community behind it...it's only a matter of time before it comes tumbling down.  I was quite happy with SCORE'S work on i25.  They've done a good job.  I got to play it.  (Or was I dreaming...?)

For 3 days, I felt 14 years younger...

Azrael.

[Azrael]

I know one person was converting to SQL 2019 directly but figured that it would take 2 months.

Others were finding going to SQL 2010 was easier and they were working on that and then were going to try moving to 2019.

However it happens I expect to see a more streamlined version but as someone above stated the future of this game is in smaller servers where you pay much less but can only host for 100 - 200 people.

I am not sure the donations will cover a $5,000 a month setup. I know once I get one going I am going to pay for the initial setup myself and once I know what the monthly costs are I can then post it on the server website the exact breakdown.

I think that statement is spot on.

Whilst there will be 3000 strong communities (or larger) as this 'test' server proved.  I think the more logical route is 100-200 smaller server hosting.  I mean, just how many people do we have on our global friends list anyhow? :OOO

100-200 flying about Paragon City is enough to give the illusion of life on a server.  (The early Jack Kirby Universe only had a handful or so of heroes knocking about...certainly less than 20.)  So 100-200 is a CoH heroic universe and then some all by itself.  Enough to get a team going!

Between the hardware and tweaking code(?) it seemed the 'test server' was improving all the time and that was over a few days.

It augers well for the future.

Patience. Discipline.  Time.

Azrael.

PS.  $5000 is a lot of money to find every month.

[Sinistar]

This is all much more encouraging than the raging turmoil going on in Reddit, and Discord. 

Thanks for that!

Well I just checked the discord, it appears to be relatively calmed down now. It seems now it is the waiting game...

[silurian]

I know one person was converting to SQL 2019 directly but figured that it would take 2 months.

Others were finding going to SQL 2010 was easier and they were working on that and then were going to try moving to 2019.

I don't know how challenging it is, but down the road, wouldn't it be more beneficial to migrate to mySQL if at all possible to lessen the reliance on commercial license software, and further facilitate people being able to run their own home server instances?

[Codewalker]

PostgreSQL would be my pick if you want comparable stability and reliability to MSSQL. But I bet somebody will do a mysql port at some point because it's so popular for being fast even if it's not super well-designed.

[Azrael]

I don't know how challenging it is, but down the road, wouldn't it be more beneficial to migrate to mySQL if at all possible to lessen the reliance on commercial license software, and further facilitate people being able to run their own home server instances?

Having a 'home brew for dummies' CoH server that runs on 'my pc' surely has to be the Holy Grail.  Solo/Local LAN/modest server requirements would be the way to go.  We'll see how long that will take.  But for me?  Definitely the 'holy grail' inflection point where the 'gold ring' is scattered to the 'four corners' and the burden of 'the ring' is shared and the legacy fundamentally protected.

That way the game never goes away and the community can enjoy the game on their own terms.  Instead of a corporation or anyone else acting as gate keepers.

The more 'clever' people can create bigger servers with all the mods and trimmings.  And some people like being part of the larger community.  That I understand.

But I'd prefer my more modesty needs and discretion to play under the radar.  Give me the silky smoothness of Paragon Chat with a world/powers/mobs/combat server that can support 1-50 players and I'm happy.

I can't team with any more than 8 players at once anyhow?  I'm more than happy teaming with 'a mate' stress testing alts on a striga warehouse mission.

Azrael.

[Vella]

Well I just checked the discord, it appears to be relatively calmed down now. It seems now it is the waiting game...

It's calm but nobody is happy.  Everyone's already given their opinion about the *new* discord server on reddit.

[ukaserex]

I'll just add this thought or two.

Prior to the shutdown, honestly, I'd lost interest in the game. I really enjoyed the "marketing" via Wentworth's, as it seemed by selling various IO's or recipes for 1 inf, I could rake in millions and eventually billions. But even that got old. Then, the Incarnate content came out, and it was really something special. It made my level 50 characters really powerful - probably too much so - as I don't think a psi/fire blaster should be able to solo Dreck. But, it sure was fun!

That said, getting to play this weekend...it was all I could do to stop playing and perform various tasks that are now routine without a game to absorb every waking moment of free time. I wasn't really aware that it was just a test run. I think I read it, but it never occurred to me they'd take it down so quickly. I figured if there was a C&D, it would take at least a few weeks before that would occur.

It was super interesting to see names that I remembered from the game, people whom I wouldn't know if I saw them on the street, but for some reason, have a lot of respect for them - simply because they played the game - and most played it on what I would call a "high level". (that's not a 420 reference)

A number of others - what they may have lacked in high level play, they made up for high level character. By that, I mean, they were kind, generous with their time, always willing to help be that last person to join a task force, even if they had to log off. Those were the kinds of people that I encountered more often than not.

Occasionally, there'd be someone who's in game actions were counter-productive (like leaping ahead on Incarnate trials while we try to snipe bombs and fouling the effort because they chose not to read or lost control of their keyboard to a violent kitten or whatever), but those were so few and far between, I had to think really hard to remember a bad experience.

So - no idea who Yuvi is, had never heard of SCoRE, and all the other stuff that's been going on until I saw something on Massively and was able to get my preferred archetype & power-set to level 11 before they pulled the plug. (ice/ice blaster, naturally)

It was a delightful treat for the weekend. My boss doesn't know it, but he's probably grateful they pulled the plug, or I might have called in sick ...for a week.

Whatever happens, I'll remember the excellent sound effects and the resourcefulness it takes to use the enhancements that drop, and combine them and save every bit of inf you can, because you know SO's are darned pricey for a toon that's not subsidized by previous level 50's.

So, thanks to everyone who had a hand in making the weekend - even if you're someone who just played a bit and came up with a clever name and back story! (which I took time to read this time around)