How Much Value will the Coming Games Place on Movement

Started by KidKourage, February 23, 2019, 06:39:11 PM

KidKourage

Movement Powers
I once posted a series of articles discussing movement powers to the forums.  It have four distinct sub-topics, so I posted each separately in an effort to keep discussion focused on that one point rather than have pages of discussions jumping back and forth between them.  Didn't work out.  One of the Mods stitched them back together as a single post and admonished me to never do that again.
My main point was that movement powers were trivial in terms of character growth.  You didn't necessarily need both movement powers in a pool and generally if you slapped two to three enhancements on the power you did take, you pretty much maxed out your speed.  Yet the PVP crowd proved that movement was equally important as both offense and defense.  You could equate them to a three legged chair, if you are familiar with that idiom.
As I am curious to see what value these new games will place on movement powers, I'm going to repost the old stuff here.  See if I can get some wheel turning; or maybe get one of these companies to comment on their take.  And I'll edit it down to stay within one post.
What was the Proof?
Range represents a toon's Combat Radius (CR).  Think of a circle with the toon standing at the center.  Without any blocking terrain or obstacles (or moving) the toon can attack any target within π* range2.  A character with an 80' attack range has a CR of 20,106 sq. ft. whereas a character with a 10' range has a CR of only 314 sq. ft.  And the disparity only gets worse as we move into a three dimensional environment (where the equation become 4/3 * π*range3) – even granting half of the resulting sphere is underground and not usable.
Speed is CR over time.  A tiny CR is fine as long as you can get it onto the target.  Thus with all other factors equal (specifically: two toons can move the same speed), then the one with the smaller CR cannot win, regardless of how much stronger his/her attack is, because it will never get inside its CR unless the opponent allows it to.  The melee archetypes were not given any sort of global speed buff to balance the CR discrepancy.  Instead any attack generated a few second's speed reduction, allowing others to close the distance.
But that did nothing to alter the fact that every engagement was always controlled by the faster toon.  If you started losing a battle the solution was to stop attacking, disengage, recover, return, and try again.  Because there was nothing your opponent could do about it.
Movement Retooled
It always seemed to me that a more holistic approach to movement debuff was possible.  As designed the movement pools where unbalanced.  There was a low gear and a high gear movement power that were mutually exclusive to use.  Taking one of the two represented a 4% commitment of your power slots; while taking both represented an 8% commitment, half of which was useless at any given time.  Who would do that?  Why would anyone accept a 4% loss of overall capability for no compensation?
At the same time, thanks to ED and the movement caps being so low, it was hardly worth investing more than 2 enhancement slots to improve speed, with maybe one or two more for endurance reduction.  That's about a 6% investment of your total enhancement slots on movement.  And yet, as discussed above, the faster combatant held a massive advantage.  One well worth demanding players invest heavily in to construct a well-balanced toon. 
So what are these 'more holistic' fixes?
1)   Every power in the movement pool (not just the actual movements) raises the cap of that movement type.  Now we are talking about a 20% commitment of total power choices to be as fast as fast can be.
2)   All movement powers of the same type can be active at the same time.  The animation displayed is from the power with the largest bonus.  Their benefits add together, most likely pegging you at max speed – for a lot of endurance use.  Example: Hover, Fly, and Group Fly could all be on simultaneously.  Now you can group fly really fast, but probably not for very long.
3)   Making an attack simply untoggles your top active movement power.  This means you as the player have to manage your key strokes to include toggling these powers back on in the middle of making attack chains, assuming you want to maintain your speed advantage. 
4)   Make slotting enhancements attractive.  Very attractive.
a.   The low gear powers are given a recharge time of around 3 seconds and the high gear powers around 6.  If you have to wait 6 second before toggling, that's like forever in combat.  You can slot recharge reduction to speed that up.  Double slotting recharge would bring the times down to 1 and 2 seconds.
b.   The Greatest American Hero made it clear you have to take 3 steps to start flying, cause that's how it's done.  The low gear powers are given an interrupt time of around 3 seconds and the high gear around 6.  Any attack with an attack speed faster than your interrupt time detoggles your top active power.  If you have to wait 6 second before the power actually kicks in, that's like forever in combat.  You can slot interrupt reduction to protect each power from being detoggled.   Double slotting interrupt puts the times at .84 and 1.68 seconds.  This means that high gear is almost always vulnerable to light and many medium weight attacks detoggling them.
c.   Faster overall speeds create a global accuracy penalty on self, which can be reduced with the use of accuracy buffs.  Note that I'm saying Accuracy and not To Hit.  So yeah, higher speeds are more of a problem for Ranged attacks than Melee.
d.   Faster overall speeds create smashing secondary damage for melee attacks.  The unenhanced value equals your MPH, so even one slot puts you close to a 100 points of damage. Got momentum?  Note this means any melee strike with no movement powers activated gets a 21 point smashing secondary so there's your melee toon offset for CR.
e.   Reduce the movement buffs on all movement powers.  This makes taking both powers more attractive for total performance and it makes 3 or 4 slotting of move enhancements – despite DR – more desirable.
f.   Tweek the endurance use up just a tiny bit. 
Now the players have lots of choices.  To be good, you are gonna want about 8 enhancements, but can only have 6.  Double slot the endurance reduction to leave all movement powers on or slot recharge reduction and pick and choose where to conserve.  Go for top speed or longest haul.  Accept the accuracy debuff or mitigate.  Crash into things for bonus damage? 
The attack speed versus interrupt time becomes an interesting duel.  Players will reconsider the value of the #1 power in most attacks sets – the one with the fastest activation time.  Might not do much damage, but handy if a speedster comes at you.  Their own attack untoggles one move power while you detoggle the other.  Suddenly they need to find a few seconds to crawl away from you.  Might not work very well on a Blaster/Dominator who have a few melee tricks of their own.  Even so, they have to toggle the power at a moment when you are not using the fast strike to interrupt them again.
Interestingly, despite all that I've proposed here, if you only want a movement power to get from door to door, you can stick to the 4-6% investment and not much will be different for you.
One thing I figured out thinking this all through was where the notion of 'suppression' came from.  One of the things that activating a fly power does is set a toon's flight status to true.  If all your flight powers are un/de-toggled then that status becomes false and you fall.  But suppression did not untoggle, so you remained in flight.  I never really understood the devs reluctance to not allow falling damage to defeat a toon.  Yeah, sure debt.  But you did just jump off a tall building (i.e. something equally stupid), so tough luck.  Flying was a fun experience, but flying while fighting should indeed be dangerous in more ways than one.
So where does this leave Teleportation?
Teleport powers are all click powers, not toggles.  No way to have more than one active at a time simply due to the nature of the beast.  Conversely, there is no way to detoggle them (you could interrupt them though).  Also, range doesn't have a global cap; so the benefits of taking many powers in the pool would not increase each power's range.  Here the synergy for investment in the pool really needs to reduce the activation time of all teleport powers, maybe even the interrupt times.  Those seem excessively long, and ripe for reductions.
There can be no accuracy penalty nor secondary damage.  But there is the possibility that any attack within say 2 seconds following Teleportation could trigger a disorient attack on your target, where again pool investment might improve the magnitude while slotting stun on the Teleport power increases duration.
One thing I would change is that total distance, endurance, and interrupt time should go way up – into the hundreds of feet, but endurance use and interrupt times are based on actual distance.  To the point that blipping to your maximum range might require a fifteen second interrupt and use half your endurance in one go.  But if you just teleport 10' behind the guy in front of you, that's almost nothing.  This could bring Endurance Modification into play as an enhancement. 
Extreme distances would be a huge benefit when used for movement because it reduces the total number of point and clicks required to cross a zone.  Actual distance modifying endurance and prep times would make the pool more combat capable, though maybe still not as nice as the other movement pools.
What about Prestige Movement Powers?
Setting Slide, Dash, Quick, Rush, and Surge aside for a moment; all these powers behave like inherent powers and cannot be enhanced.  I would stick to that, making them a bad idea to use in combat because they will still un/de-toggle.  That said, I would join the choir that when customization comes to the movement pools, all the animation from these powers that you have need to be available as alternate poses.
As for the five above, they are alternate flavors of Sprint.  As such, only one of these including Sprint can be active at a time – an exception to the idea that multiple powers of the same mode can be active.  Sure, you could enhance them all differently for different benefits if you are willing to invest fistfuls of slots.  Or the devs could make the more unpopular call and reduce them to just being alternate animations of Sprint, if you have them, as part of customization.
Modern additions
Movement Customization
I have to wonder if movement customization was very far off?  Alternate attack poses was already a thing.  So the tools to preselect a movement pose rather than use a macro was likely already there, they just needed to be applied to these powers.  I don't know that huge amounts of color choices were needed as much as poses and costume recipe selectors.
Other Movement Pools Ideas
Swimming: Like many of you, I enjoyed the one instance of underwater swimming we had.  I would have very much enjoyed a Swimming Pool (I still chuckle when I say that) even if there was limited utility.  I think the devs were missing the value of preventing a toon from using Rest in certain environments.  Air breathing toons should not be able to Rest under water.  So while a simple power like 'Water Breathing' seems too easy, it's valuable.  It may be subtle, but it's valuable, especially if it adds even a tiny boost to regen/recharge/recovery values.  Add Swim, Superswim, and Grant/Group Water Breathing and you only need one more power to make a pool of 5.  I would recommend Aquatic Adaptation – resistance to Smashing, Cold, and Negative damage.
Tunneling: A variant of Teleportation where your target point must be a solid object that you would emerge from.  Tunnel and Group Tunnel are the obvious powers. Rupture could be similar to Spring Attack except that you would burst up out of the hole you make creating an area of slow movement. Pierce could be a power similar to Build-up that briefly provides you a defense debuff against your target(s).  The last power could be a zone movement power but I'd rather see Burrow: a Hibernate like power where you dig yourself an underground hiding spot to recuperate for a brief period and then return.
Wall Walking: More Escher than Spider-man, cause the crouching pose would require all sorts of new animations for activating powers.  If toons simply walked normally on vertical or upside-down surfaces, you would NOT need all that (you do still have to figure out how to switch the direction of gravity, but that's the easy part).  But what else goes into this pool?  Maybe just make it a catch all of Extreme movements with powers such as Gliding (no upward motion), Surfing (enabling running modes on liquid surfaces), Swingline (very short range teleport), and Escape Artist (a five second massive boost to Defense versus any power using Magnitude.


MyriVerse

Really zero? So, if I don't want to, I don't need a travel power?
aka Majadi | Sugar Cane | Absinthe | Killer Antz | Bogatyra | ...
Best Video Game of 2016 -- Paragon Chat!!!
Codewalker for Mayor of Paragon!

eabrace

Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

Vee

Quote from: MyriVerse on February 27, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
Really zero? So, if I don't want to, I don't need a travel power?

You mean besides [Walk] I assume.