Batman v. Superman

[doc7924]

Finally got to see this. Not too bad considering the reviews I read.

I just thought Batman's sudden turn at the end because of "Martha" was a bit too quick.

And also -

Spoiler for Hidden:

I had no idea Supes dies in this. They kept that a good secret. Looks like he wont be in the JLA film either based on the trailer.
Of course I am sure he will get better and return. Maybe they will do the "Return of Superman" film like the comic arc with multiple people trying to take his place.

[hurple]

Finally got to see this. Not too bad considering the reviews I read.

I just thought Batman's sudden turn at the end because of "Martha" was a bit too quick.

And also -

Spoiler for Hidden:

I had no idea Supes dies in this. They kept that a good secret. Looks like he wont be in the JLA film either based on the trailer.
Of course I am sure he will get better and return. Maybe they will do the "Return of Superman" film like the comic arc with multiple people trying to take his place.

Spoiler for Hidden:

He's on the Justice League movie poster, front and center.  At least the one released so far.

[Vee]

I just thought Batman's sudden turn at the end because of "Martha" was a bit too quick.

Say what you want about batfleck being too brutal but the man respects the safety word.

[Arcana]

I just thought Batman's sudden turn at the end because of "Martha" was a bit too quick.

I didn't think the problem was that it was too quick of a turnaround.  I thought it wasn't set up properly or at all.  In the movie, Batman's expressed motivation for taking down Superman was that Batman felt Superman was a threat to humanity.  If so, that doesn't change in that scene, and shouldn't change his motivation for killing Superman.

For that scene to have any meaning at all, it had to connect to something.  If they had set it up so that Batman was convinced that Superman wasn't "one of us," that he seemed aloof and didn't seem to care about humans except in the abstract, that he did what he did for his own purely incomprehensible reasons, then discovering that Superman was willing to beg Batman to save the life of one single human being could have been portrayed as the shock to the system Batman needed to realize that the seeming incomprehensible way Superman behaved and the controversy that surrounded him was really not all that different from what drove him to become the Batman.  That they were not as different as he originally believed.  That might have been enough at least to make him think twice at that critical moment.

[doc7924]

I didn't think the problem was that it was too quick of a turnaround.  I thought it wasn't set up properly or at all.  In the movie, Batman's expressed motivation for taking down Superman was that Batman felt Superman was a threat to humanity.  If so, that doesn't change in that scene, and shouldn't change his motivation for killing Superman.

For that scene to have any meaning at all, it had to connect to something.  If they had set it up so that Batman was convinced that Superman wasn't "one of us," that he seemed aloof and didn't seem to care about humans except in the abstract, that he did what he did for his own purely incomprehensible reasons, then discovering that Superman was willing to beg Batman to save the life of one single human being could have been portrayed as the shock to the system Batman needed to realize that the seeming incomprehensible way Superman behaved and the controversy that surrounded him was really not all that different from what drove him to become the Batman.  That they were not as different as he originally believed.  That might have been enough at least to make him think twice at that critical moment.

Makes sense. And believe or not - I have been reading comics since the 1960's and never realized until that part in the film that Clark's and Bruce's moms both are called Martha.

 

[doc7924]

Spoiler for Hidden:

He's on the Justice League movie poster, front and center.  At least the one released so far.

I haven't seen the poster yet, but I didn't see him in the trailers I saw so far.

But could be a good climax to the film - Superman to the rescue at the last minute.

[Arcana]

Makes sense. And believe or not - I have been reading comics since the 1960's and never realized until that part in the film that Clark's and Bruce's moms both are called Martha.

I always knew their names were Martha, of course, but I never thought it was significant. 

I wonder if it is significant that the first names of the Justice League members Aquaman, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are Arthur, Bruce, Clark, and Diana.

Now that I think about it, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Kyle Raynor.  Someone named Iris Taylor needs to become the Green Lantern.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Finally got to see this. Not too bad considering the reviews I read.

I just thought Batman's sudden turn at the end because of "Martha" was a bit too quick.

And also -

Spoiler for Hidden:

I had no idea Supes dies in this. They kept that a good secret. Looks like he wont be in the JLA film either based on the trailer.
Of course I am sure he will get better and return. Maybe they will do the "Return of Superman" film like the comic arc with multiple people trying to take his place.

Agree'd.

Spoiler for Hidden:

I also wasn't thrilled by their insane revamp of Doomsday.  The got his power kind of right I guess, he would evolve but he did it on the spot instead of dying and being reborn like original Doomsday did.  Doomsday also was not the reanimated corpse of Zodd, and had in fact been alive much longer then Zodd or Superman.  At least they stayed true to that Doomsday is one of the few things capable of killing Superman.

Aside from my above gripe I enjoyed it for the most part.  Really getting sick of the "dark for no reason and so intelligent IM CRAZZZZYYY" villain role every super hero movies seems to need these days.  Shame on you Eisenberg.

[doc7924]

I always knew their names were Martha, of course, but I never thought it was significant. 

I wonder if it is significant that the first names of the Justice League members Aquaman, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are Arthur, Bruce, Clark, and Diana.

Now that I think about it, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Kyle Raynor.  Someone named Iris Taylor needs to become the Green Lantern.

I knew both were Martha as well - but never really thought 'Hey - both their moms have the same name.' I wonder if it ever came up in the comics.

[Arcana]

I knew both were Martha as well - but never really thought 'Hey - both their moms have the same name.'

And that's why we don't work in Hollywood.

[Magus Prime]

My original post was written after I had gotten home from just seeing the movie.  My thoughts on the film have since then changed.  After watching it again, it felt lacking in cohesion.  It's a shame because this was a story we've been waiting most our lives to see realized and it just felt like a hodgepodge of incoherent scenes. 


The Ultimate Edition really didn't make anything much better.  A big gripe for me was Superman in The Capitol having zero dialogue.  We have perhaps the most ideal actor to play the character and he's being under utilized.  Anyhoo, the whole thing just felt like one wasted opportunity.

Oh yeah.  And Affleck was great as Bats.

[hurple]

A big gripe for me was Superman in The Capitol having zero dialogue.  We have perhaps the most ideal actor to play the character and he's being under utilized. 

This is true.  Great actor who looks great as Superman, but it looks like the director, in every instance he's played Supes so far, has told him, "play it like a mannequin." 

Would love to see him cut loose and start chewing scenery ala Chris Reeve.  I guarantee he'd be a great Superman with better direction.

[Arcana]

This is true.  Great actor who looks great as Superman, but it looks like the director, in every instance he's played Supes so far, has told him, "play it like a mannequin." 

Actually a fridge logic moment just struck me.  You're both correct that it seems like when he's one on one with someone, like Martha or Lois, Clark acts relatively normally but when he's out in public he always looks like a sad, detached statue, like he doesn't know how to act around people.  He has an almost disinterested look - think about that moment when he is hovering over that family trapped by the flood, whom I'm certain he saved, but still.  It can almost come across as arrogance, that he feels all of this is beneath him and its a chore he feels compelled to go through the motions of - interacting with people.



And that's exactly why Batman is afraid of him.

[Tenzhi]

It can almost come across as arrogance, that he feels all of this is beneath him and its a chore he feels compelled to go through the motions of - interacting with people.

Or maybe he's just trying to decide whether "over there" has become "here" yet so that he has to deal with it.

[hurple]

Actually a fridge logic moment just struck me.  You're both correct that it seems like when he's one on one with someone, like Martha or Lois, Clark acts relatively normally but when he's out in public he always looks like a sad, detached statue, like he doesn't know how to act around people.  He has an almost disinterested look - think about that moment when he is hovering over that family trapped by the flood, whom I'm certain he saved, but still.  It can almost come across as arrogance, that he feels all of this is beneath him and its a chore he feels compelled to go through the motions of - interacting with people.



And that's exactly why Batman is afraid of him.

Yes, and it's exactly what's wrong with the portrayal.  Reeve got Superman exactly right (but I wasn't a big fan of his Clark Kent).  George Reeves got Superman right too.  Hell, even Dean Cain was a better Superman than the current movie version.  (Dean Cain was a good Clark Kent, but didn't play Clark and Supes different enough.)

I think this "modern" movie portrayal is actually what DC *wants* from the way DiDio and Johns talk about Superman now... But that's a major mistake in characterization, IMO.  They should have put the Byrne Superman on the screen, he's much more filmable.

Again, this is all just IMO.  Maybe he'll lighten up with the death and rebirth... Ha Ha Ha!

[Arcana]

Yes, and it's exactly what's wrong with the portrayal.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that everything "wrong" with the portrayal ironically makes Batman's beliefs about him all the more plausible.

[Golden Girl]

On the subject of WB's DC cinematic disasters, the predicate Suicide Squad train wreck is getting wonderfully shredded by reviewers - the Snydertrash desecration of DC is now at a hilarious 0 for 3, and with an appalling Wonder Woman trailer and laughable Justice League sneak peak, there's no end in sight for this humiliating parade of incompetence

[Tenzhi]

and with an appalling Wonder Woman trailer

You're nuts. 

[Golden Girl]

Wondie is probably my favorite comic book charterer, and that trailer was jaw-droopingly awful.

[Tenzhi]

That trailer was really good.  Steve Trevor, a period war piece, Wonder Woman's origin not relegated to mundanity, Wonder Woman fighting like a boss...

I reiterate: you're nuts.