Author Topic: Graphics Optimization  (Read 2614 times)

Noyjitat

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Graphics Optimization
« on: February 28, 2016, 08:53:01 PM »
Black Desert is the most intense and beautiful game I've played thus far and yet with it's settings on high it plays better than icon/coh/paragon chat does with no other players around in coh. That's how poorly optimized cox was or atleast perhaps it's a problem with icon/paragon chat? I have a much better system now than I did before cox shutdown so I have no way to test this on live (wink wink nudge nudge, get that emulator going)

I'm also getting vastly superior fps to what I get in swtor (with shadows turned off in swtor and settings at max) so I hope the devs of our successor games are taking optimization into account because if a lifelike game runs flawlessly on my system while something from 2011 doesn't something just isn't right...

Codewalker

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 04:09:32 AM »
What video card?

Noyjitat

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 07:46:24 AM »
R9 295x2 which translates 2 crossfire r9 290x with a higher gpu and memory clock. 32 gigabyte system ram and a fx8350 overclocked to 4.6 ghz.

Before cox shutdown i was running an intel core2 extreme qx9650 at 3.0 ghz, a geforce gtx 480ssc and 16gb ram. My performace in cox was 16 - 22 fps in imperial city and 24 - 34 most everywhere else. And that was with shadows turned off, no ambient occulsion and 90% world and character distance. Everything else at max. Same settings in icon / paragon chat and nearly identical performance on hardware that should laugh at this game ( not to mention the gpu alone was a flagship card made years after issue 16's graphics update and pre issue 24 shutdown)

Codewalker

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 02:44:09 PM »
Yep, just what I thought.

R9 295

AMD. That's why.

Decent enough hardware, but terrible OpenGL drivers on Windows. Always have been, from the very first Catalyst release until today. They've always had bad Linux drivers as well. Strangely (from what I've heard, I don't have one to verify), the Mac OS drivers seem to be halfway decent, but that may have to do with Apple having a hand in their design.

I'm not sure if OpenGL drivers are just hard to write and they're not up to the task, or (more likely), they don't dedicate very many resources to it, since GL has always been the domain of professional design software, alternative OSes like Linux that ATI barely cared about, and a small handful of games -- most of them by John Carmack. If you're playing a non-Direct3D game on AMD/ATI, you're going to get suboptimal performance.

Crossfire is especially problematic with their GL stack and is probably making your performance worse instead of better. Some supported titles have special handling in the driver to use a crossfire mode that works with them, but since I doubt COH is on that list, the driver is using the generic support which is just bad. If the driver will let you, I'd try disabling crossfire for COH and forcing it to use the primary GPU only, and see if it helps.

The issue is worse with COH than some other games because COH is very draw call intensive. It was designed for the previous generation of hardware, where the number of draw calls wasn't so important because everything had to use the fixed function pipeline anyway, and polygons and fill rate were the limiting factor. Most newer games, especially the very pretty photoreal ones, use high poly count models with massive high-res texture maps and computationally intensive shaders, but render relatively few models at a time. All of the fine detail is baked into the texture and normal maps, so they need unique textures for everything, which is why games like Black Desert are a 40GB+ download.

COH on the other hand, draws a large number of tiny objects. That gave map designers much more flexibility to easily add small details (even graffiti and road markings are decals drawn on top of a bigger object in real time), but with poorly optimized drivers like AMD's, means that the game spends most of its time waiting for the OpenGL driver to send commands to the GPU. If you have any performance monitoring software, you'll probably find that the GPU is barely breaking a sweat, and that the COH process has a second thread (this is the GL rendering thread) which is maxing out a single CPU core and is spending the majority of its time inside of opengl32.dll!glDrawElements.

That isn't really an engine problem -- the Ultra mode engine uses VBOs, vertex programs, hardware-assisted occlusion queries, and most of the latest tech -- but rather assumptions made in the art asset and level design, which are a lot harder to fix.

For many years while the game was active I always recommended nVidia for COH players for exactly this reason. You pay more for comparable hardware, but it just works better with OpenGL. Even some of the newer Intel HD chipsets would probably work better, sadly.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 02:56:42 PM by Codewalker »

Noyjitat

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 03:16:06 PM »
I was an nvidia fan boy until the flagship and pre flagship cards doubled in price. But it also doesn't change the fact that my old gtx 480/ intel extreme should of been overkill for coh yet it wasn't and it did however play swtor better than coh. Thanks for the technical info though, I knew amd drivers were often bad. Perhaps amd will step it up a notch so that nvidia gets more competitve with its prices.

Codewalker

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 03:57:30 PM »
I'm still using a fairly old 560 Ti that has served me well. I get a decent framerate with just about every Ultra option maxed out, except for ambient occlusion on medium. First Ward / Night Ward is the only zone I notice as being a bit choppy and seems to be CPU-bound. Those two also have very high load times, so I think that's a case of map designers went overboard with stacking tiny objects on top of each other.

If you haven't already, turning off vertical sync can help a lot if you're willing to put up with some minor tearing (I don't even notice it, but it drives some people crazy).

Vulkan is our best bet for cross-platform graphics in the future, and both AMD and nVidia are on board with it. The biggest threat to its success is Apple, who seems to determined to do their own thing for iOS and Mac.

Noyjitat

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Re: Graphics Optimization
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 10:17:57 PM »
Vulkan you say? That's new to me and I will look into it. As for using only 1 gpu core, based off the information you provided me about cox I've already sorta tested it. Since I had an r9 290 before and upgraded to an r9 295x2 (r9 290 is single gpu and only slightly slower than a r9 290x) and my performance was basically the same.

AMD is coming out with a card sometime near the end of the year or early next year that's supposed to be a huge boost beyond it's r9 series with 14mm chips if I recall. So I'm hoping that will either solve some of these issues or create more competition. And then ofcourse it's been awhile since amd launched a flagship Cpu and those are expected in the near future as well.