Ridiculous Question

[archaist]

We don't have confirmation as to how far the negotiations have progressed, or what is their outcome so far.
Currently the deal is kind of like Schrodinger's Cat - in an indeterminate state barring arrival of new data. Instead of splitting ourselves into "it's dead, cause no news" and "it must be alive, we'd have heard if it died" camps, why not get a cup of tea and sit down in the "wait and see" camp? It's not like a longer wait would kill us.

Two deaths every second. I'd say, morbidly, that waiting could potentially kill some of us.

[Surelle]

Think about it this way guys... if the deal was stone-cold-dead-in-the-groud...Would I still be trying to convince people to still have hope, and that things are moving (albeit slowly)?

(The answer is probably not Yes.)

I love how you put things.     Thanks!

[Drauger9]

Think about it this way guys... if the deal was stone-cold-dead-in-the-groud...Would I still be trying to convince people to still have hope, and that things are moving (albeit slowly)?



(The answer is probably not Yes.)

It's just sad that you have to.... Sometimes I feel like some of these people are pulling on heart strings trying to get information. It's like unless it's written in stone RIGHT in front of them. Then there's wiggle room and they'll find something there to pick at until they get all the information they can out of it.

Alright, I'm going back to my command center cheering the team on from it. Until we get the final yes or no.

[Sinistar]

I suppose I am still in the "hopeful" group, just because it has not been called dead officially. 

I have, however, wondered intensely about why such NSA level precautions are taken around negotiations for the resurrection of a defunct game?  I know business is all about competition, but let's face it....the competition in this arena are well known products, which while they may be similar, they are not the overall king of the Superhero genre (like WoW is to fantasy).  There might be some things in development, but they are years in the distance.  I don't claim to know everything about business practices, especially international business, but this all seems WAY too cloak and dagger for the property at stake.

One could presume that if there was no NDA, that MMORPG news sites would run rampant with wild rumors and speculations that could derail things, same with all the message boards.

Also if there were no NDA, then it may be possible for a competitor, or perhaps I should say owner of another super hero MMO to come in and try to usurp things with a better offer in order to buy up the game and keep it offline while their own game continues to thrive.  Disney/Marvel springs to mind given the history of lawsuit problems that existed between Marvel and CoH for awhile.

[Abraxus]

Hmmm....two scenarios:

One where you have no information, and one where you have too much and have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

All things considered, I think I would prefer option 2.  Just sayin'.

[Ultimate15]

Hmmm....two scenarios:

One where you have no information, and one where you have too much and have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

All things considered, I think I would prefer option 2.  Just sayin'.

Option 2 would kill Nate's chances of landing a deal with NCSoft. Rumors and speculations = non-discrete, and non-discrete = NCSoft maaaaaaaad. NCSOFT RAAAAAAGE.

I think we're safer off with Nate keeping to himself for the time being and not running the risk of spilling anything he probably shouldn't.

[TonyV]

Option 2 would kill Nate's chances of landing a deal with NCSoft. Rumors and speculations = non-discrete, and non-discrete = NCSoft maaaaaaaad. NCSOFT RAAAAAAGE.

This is what I'm talking about.  I feel like I have to point some of this stuff out because people are having unrealistic expectations and fundamental misunderstandings of the current status of affairs:

• NCsoft isn't anything. They have never said one single solitary word regarding the negotiations to anyone outside the negotiating team.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zip, zilch, zero.  So please stop reading anything into how NCsoft feels or what NCsoft is thinking in regards to these negotiations.
• What we do know is that Nate posted on September 1 last year--over seven months ago--that negotiations were taking place.  We don't know anyone who is or was on that team other than Nate.  We know people who were marginally involved (e.g. IG), but as far as we publicly know, Nate is the only person who can definitively state anything with any weight of credibility behind it.  Now I want to be clear about this: I'm not accusing anyone of lying or deliberately misrepresenting the truth.  But I have seen WAY too often people reading things into posts that simply aren't there.  I've said this before, and why people won't take this advice to heart completely stymies me, but do not take worth a grain of salt anything that you hear or read from non-firsthand sources!  And yes, that includes me.  I try my best to make it clear when I know something versus when I'm speculating about something, yet I still see people saying, "Tony said such-and-such..." when I never said any such thing.
• What we also know is that these negotiations supposedly started in September 2013, which is over a year and a half ago. Yes, I know that things sometimes move slowly in the business world. But c'mon, people. Not this slowly. I mean, we're not talking about merging two multibillion-dollar corporations here, having to get approval from the FTC and Congress, and yet even those kinds of deals have taken less time than this one. We're talking about a pretty simple, straight-forward purchase of IP and (ideally) a source code base. We're talking a few months, max--if NCsoft were willing to play ball. That doesn't mean that I've completely ruled out something happening as impossible, just highly unlikely. If you want to believe that they're right on the cusp, then by gummy, have at it, but for the love of whatever god you pray to, PLEASE stop characterizing people as "holding on to anger and disappointment."
• I don't know why people are dancing around what I consider kind of obvious, but to answer the question of, "Why hasn't Nate come out and said the deal is dead?", it's entirely possible that he is holding out hope that it's still alive even after NCsoft has made it clear, likely through simple non-communication, that it's not.  Or it could be a simple matter of someone he knows telling him, "We need to wait for the right time to approach the executives..." and then there just never seems to be a right time.  I don't know--and it's important to me that you understand that--but in my humble opinion, if it hasn't happened after over a year and a half, it's almost certainly not going to happen this time around.

And you know what?  That's okay.  Like I said, in spite of this, I'm still optimistic.  I know of other things that are in the works that are kind of exciting, things that are longer-term efforts that, while I don't want to rile everyone up over, I know will eventually sufficiently awe people to be worth the wait.  And I also don't think that this will be the last time a play is made for the City of Heroes IP.  The thing that strikes me about this attempt at it is that so far, nothing has changed.  The executives who shut down City of Heroes and nixed negotiations with Brian Clayton and his team are still in charge. But there's a steady stream of news coming out about Nexon making moves against top-level management at NCsoft, NCsoft being forced to divest some of its stock to NetMarble to avoid a hostile takeover, and some of NCsoft's properties not doing as well as planned, that lead me to believe that things won't always be the same.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again to leave everyone on a happy note: NCsoft can say no a thousand times, but all it takes is one yes.  And we will eventually get that yes.

(Or, you know, make the answer irrelevant...)

[Ohioknight]

I know of other things that are in the works that are kind of exciting, things that are longer-term efforts that... will eventually ... be worth the wait. 

(...)

THERE we go!  Good to hear from you again Tony!

[ivanhedgehog]

I blame tony..he didnt get us all a nice cheese plate

[Noyjitat]

Thread was created a week ago and already has 10 pages and 4000 views haha. People are like *Gasp* another thread to look through for news.

[Burnt Toast]

I am actively hostile? Uhm ok? I prefer to think of my replies as blunt, logical and honest. I guess we have different opinions on hostile.

I try to make sense of the situation.  The Mysterions are obviously frustrated by not being able to tell us something and nearly uncomprehending (to actively hostile in Burnt Toast's case) when people are falling into despair over the apparent stagnation/failure/indefinite termination of the deal -- "WHY CAN'T YOU FOLKS SEE HOW CLOSE THIS IS!!!" seems to me to be their attitude... but they are also apparently frustrated over the pace of developments.  If they were getting fully stonewalled it would be more like "WE HAVE TO KEEP TRYING ... KEEEP TRYYYING  "  But this is more like "WHAT, WE STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT DOCUMENT BACK! MAN, WHAT A WAY TO RUN A RAILROAD" or "OH C'MON! THIS GODDAMN THING!"  It seems to me that our silent friends THINK that there are things GOING ON (beyond negotiations) that they can't mention. 

When I think about that and I think on NCSoft's (and probably the SECRET MASTERS OF THE MYSTERIONS) NDAs on the deal... this tells me that active work is happening but SLOWLY (or at least with slow progress) ... then I think about possible conditions and I take everything we've heard about the technical nature of the game and the missing pieces that will need developing -- and getting things working before a final signature seems most likely.

But I've wildly over-interpreted people's responses before and been wrong (notably the meaning of a certain "GAME CHANGING" piece of information that I always thought was fairly obvious -- the involvement of people who are also involved in COT)

[Burnt Toast]

I am not a snotty 12 year old.
Internet blowhard? Not sure what I have said for you to associate that term with me. Maybe again...different opinion on the definition of blow hard (someone who talks too much and who people dislike).


I had no clue I was seen in such a negative light on these boards. I never thought I was hostile...and while I wasn't trying to win a popularity contest...I never knew I was disliked so much.

Nate hasn't posted here, or on subject, but he has posted. IG has posted quite a bit.  OK maybe Burnt Toast is just a snotty 12-year-old playing with his smartphone, or a middle-aged internet blowhard, I don't know...

I was just answering the question of what made me think what I suspect about the status of the project -- I think there are Mysterion posters on this board (beyond Irish Girl) expressing attitudes ... as I said, I've been wrong and I'm fully aware I may be seeing letters in the clouds -- I was fairly certain that the mole in Young Justice was a clone of Aqualad (which really would have made more sense than the actual story... but anyway)

[FloatingFatMan]

I am actively hostile? Uhm ok? I prefer to think of my replies as blunt, logical and honest. I guess we have different opinions on hostile.

You're forgetting the golden rule of the internet, Toasty.  If someone disagrees with you, then no matter how politely or reasonably they promote their point of view, they're actively hostile and aggressive, trolling, and probably lots of other derogatory things.

Which is why, whenever someone calls me something like that, they get tossed into the moron box.

[Ultimate15]

This is what I'm talking about.  I feel like I have to point some of this stuff out because people are having unrealistic expectations and fundamental misunderstandings of the current status of affairs:

• NCsoft isn't anything. They have never said one single solitary word regarding the negotiations to anyone outside the negotiating team.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zip, zilch, zero.  So please stop reading anything into how NCsoft feels or what NCsoft is thinking in regards to these negotiations.

First off - the notion that people are "holding on to anger and disappointment" because they're not trying to put optimistic spins on things they're either seeing or hearing is ridiculous. I agree with you on that - much of what you've said I've agreed with, and there is evidence of this just from the past few posts I've made on this thread.

...However, my comment was very much in relation to back in the late summer/early fall when everyone was first catching wind via IronWolf that something serious was in the works, and the social media platforms blew UP. Fortunately, since then things have simmered considerably and it's not so much a problem...but it was stated by many a fairly reputable sources in our community that NCSoft didn't care for that type of business behavior, and that type of player-wide rumor and speculation churning (on a fairly large scale, might I add) would only sour the efforts - ergo, it was best to simmer some and collect ourselves. And granted - I don't think it would have soured things to the point of completely ruining everything...but still. I believe that to be true regarding how NCSoft prefers to do business - kind of like how Nate said in his original post that he had to have someone make an introduction for him to meet Mr. Yoon, as that's how things get done with their type of corporate culture.

Just my opinion.

Also, Tony...the usage of the term 'opinion' more so in your posts is something you might be able to benefit from Especially if you're having issues with people confusing when you're saying something in speculation vs. fact - *laughs* And this is totally not me picking at a wound here at all, but you literally stated in one sentence that: "do not take worth a grain of salt anything that you hear or read from non-firsthand sources!  And yes, that includes me..." and then followed that up with: "We're talking about a pretty simple, straight-forward purchase of IP and (ideally) a source code base. We're talking a few months, max--if NCsoft were willing to play ball."

AND I'VE DONE THE SAME THING. I'm not trying to call you out on anything I'm not guilty of, too.

Cheers.

[Thunder Glove]

...However, my comment was very much in relation to back in the late summer/early fall when everyone was first catching wind via IronWolf that something serious was in the works, and the social media platforms blew UP. Fortunately, since then things have simmered considerably and it's not so much a problem...but it was stated by many a fairly reputable sources in our community that NCSoft didn't care for that type of business behavior, and that type of player-wide rumor and speculation churning (on a fairly large scale, might I add) would only sour the efforts - ergo, it was best to simmer some and collect ourselves. And granted - I don't think it would have soured things to the point of completely ruining everything...but still. I believe that to be true regarding how NCSoft prefers to do business - kind of like how Nate said in his original post that he had to have someone make an introduction for him to meet Mr. Yoon, as that's how things get done with their type of corporate culture.

Yeah, I distinctly remember this, too.  We were specifically requested to stop posting on NCSoft's Facebook page, not attempt to contact them in any way, and tone down the anti-NCSoft rantings in public, or it would ruin everything.  I'll have to do some digging for the actual request (it might even be in the New Efforts thread - Edit: Nope, can't find it there), but I know it happened.

On a more general note, some of us have just had enough work-related experiences where not hearing anything for a long while from a company is not a good thing (it just means they forgot about you and/or are hoping you'll go away), so I'm still hopeful, but not optimistic.

I'd rather be pessimistic and pleasantly surprised than optimistic and disappointed

[Ohioknight]

I am not a snotty 12 year old.
Internet blowhard? Not sure what I have said for you to associate that term with me. Maybe again...different opinion on the definition of blow hard (someone who talks too much and who people dislike).


I had no clue I was seen in such a negative light on these boards. I never thought I was hostile...and while I wasn't trying to win a popularity contest...I never knew I was disliked so much.

I deeply LOVE you Toast.  My point was that I don't THINK you are either a snotty 12 year old or an Internet Blowhard, but rather one with deep wisdom and knowledge -- My post was noting that I could be wrong (sorry if that was unclear).  And I apologize for the "hostile" appellation -- sputtering in fury perhaps... :-)

[duane]

Yeah, I distinctly remember this, too.  We were specifically requested to stop posting on NCSoft's Facebook page, not attempt to contact them in any way, and tone down the anti-NCSoft rantings in public, or it would ruin everything.  I'll have to do some digging for the actual request (it might even be in the New Efforts thread - Edit: Nope, can't find it there), but I know it happened.

You are correct there was a request to tone down the rhetoric on the fb page and not engage in the active lobbying (letter writing, masks etc) that did not sit well before with ncsoft. 

[Burnt Toast]

Ahh ok... sorry for the confusion. I read those and I was like "uhh what'd I say to bring that on?"

I deeply LOVE you Toast.  My point was that I don't THINK you are either a snotty 12 year old or an Internet Blowhard, but rather one with deep wisdom and knowledge -- My post was noting that I could be wrong (sorry if that was unclear).  And I apologize for the "hostile" appellation -- sputtering in fury perhaps... :-)

[Ironwolf]

NCSoft told the team (Nate and Co.) they didn't like the sort of publicity that the last effort had.

Nate contacted me once the guy on Facebook broke things loose and it was published if I had spoke to the website - he was in a panic and so was I, NCSoft was mollified that time and so things were not completely derailed, but it was not a good thing.

There is a team that is with Nate to run the servers and the returning game - Nate said as much and so have others. It's not news, however as others have said here - there is a lot of experience in reverse engineering/server restoration here on the site - that would do it for cheap/free so why look elsewhere?

I also understand why the new group won't say anything because without a deal they have nothing to say yet.

I am so bored with other games now. I hope we hear soon.

[Burnt Toast]

I haven't played any MMO since 11/30/2012... none of them even remotely interest me. I have done a LITTLE alpha testing for VO and that's it I was never an MMO player... just CoH. I probably spend an hour or so every day in MIDs to fill my CoH gap.

NCSoft told the team (Nate and Co.) they didn't like the sort of publicity that the last effort had.

Nate contacted me once the guy on Facebook broke things loose and it was published if I had spoke to the website - he was in a panic and so was I, NCSoft was mollified that time and so things were not completely derailed, but it was not a good thing.

There is a team that is with Nate to run the servers and the returning game - Nate said as much and so have others. It's not news, however as others have said here - there is a lot of experience in reverse engineering/server restoration here on the site - that would do it for cheap/free so why look elsewhere?

I also understand why the new group won't say anything because without a deal they have nothing to say yet.

I am so bored with other games now. I hope we hear soon.