Author Topic: So, why couldn't BR/Poison work?  (Read 6010 times)

Ankhammon

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So, why couldn't BR/Poison work?
« on: January 19, 2015, 12:49:53 AM »
One of my many old projects that I want to resurrect is a BR/Poison. I've been reading through the old forums and the general consensus is that it just won't work because it's too busy or /Poison is broken or BR/ is just too slow or many many other excuses.

I decided to take a look at a mids build for it and tweek things around with my current understanding of builds and I came up with the following.

It seems to have everything except a great amount of personal defense. Even then it meets the 32% threshold for ranged and can make good use of BU to allow some survivability in melee.
Poison Trap has a potential 22 second mag 3 hold and lots of proc damage to it on a very short (1 sec) fuse. combined with a single target mag 3 hold it should leave me pretty well off in melee.

At any rate, take a look and let me know if you think I'm on the right track. Any advise will be appreciated.

Oh, and btw, no travel power is a concept choice (actually I wanted TP but left it out due to pp choices).

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

HN: Level 50 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Beam Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Cutting Beam -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Posi-Dmg/Rng(9), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 4: Weaken -- Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(17), Cloud-ToHitDeb(25), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Cloud-%Dam(37)
Level 6: Disintegrate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 8: Envenom -- ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(17)
Level 10: Single Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 12: Neurotoxic Breath -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(13)
Level 14: Lancer Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Piercing Beam -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(29), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31)
Level 30: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46), IntRdx-I(46)
Level 32: Overcharge -- SMotCorruptor-Acc/Dmg(A), SMotCorruptor-Dmg/Rchg(33), SMotCorruptor-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SMotCorruptor-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SMotCorruptor-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Dam%(36), Armgdn-Dam%(36), UbrkCons-Hold(36), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(37), SMotCorruptor-Rchg/Dmg%(37)
Level 38: Venomous Gas -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(39), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), DarkWD-Slow%(39)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Summon Mistress -- C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(48), C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(42), P'Shift-End%(43)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Control Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Polar Lights Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------





« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 06:59:08 AM by Ankhammon »
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Paragon Avenger

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 01:31:50 AM »
Sounds Good to me.
Let us know how it turns out.
I don't know when City of Heroes will return, or do I?

Aggelakis

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 05:21:33 AM »
It would work, but the redraw would drive me banananananananas. Poison is incredibly active, meaning you don't have many 'fire and forget' powers, meaning you're constantly reapplying stuff. Beam Rifle is a weapon model, which means to throw poison, you have to put away your gun; then bring your gun back out to shoot lasers, then put the gun away again to throw poisons, then bring the gun back out again to shoot lasers....rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
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Vee

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 06:42:33 AM »
the post topic had me scratching my head. br/poison sounds fine. bm/poison is a whole other thing entirely, though it might work better thematically.

Ankhammon

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 06:58:48 AM »
the post topic had me scratching my head. br/poison sounds fine. bm/poison is a whole other thing entirely, though it might work better thematically.

Ooops. :)

and fixed
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Ankhammon

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 07:06:20 AM »
It would work, but the redraw would drive me banananananananas. Poison is incredibly active, meaning you don't have many 'fire and forget' powers, meaning you're constantly reapplying stuff. Beam Rifle is a weapon model, which means to throw poison, you have to put away your gun; then bring your gun back out to shoot lasers, then put the gun away again to throw poisons, then bring the gun back out again to shoot lasers....rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

I remember from the one I used to have, but it didn't seem that bad to me. Mine was only in his low 20s and I just remember only wanting to fight red bosses and above. They were fine, but groups of minions were a bit of a pain.
My other idea was to take Spring attack and jump in and Poison Trap em while they were down.

Cogito, Ergo... eh?

blacksly

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 06:44:09 PM »
It would work, but the redraw would drive me banananananananas. Poison is incredibly active, meaning you don't have many 'fire and forget' powers, meaning you're constantly reapplying stuff. Beam Rifle is a weapon model, which means to throw poison, you have to put away your gun; then bring your gun back out to shoot lasers, then put the gun away again to throw poisons, then bring the gun back out again to shoot lasers....rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

As he says, you can make it work. But unless there is a really strong reason for wanting to run this combination, I don't see it as a good choice. There are blast sets that work better with Poison, especially given that Poison's best power is PBAoE, you want sets that work well at point blank range. Electric and Rad would be my favorite choices, and Rad would look a lot better with Poison, I think. And Electric is a drain set, which works well with Poison Trap to drain AVs. Another option would be Dark Blast, which stacks its moderate -ToHit along with Poison's moderate -ToHit to end up with a solid overal To Hit debuff on a spawn. Both Electric and Dark can stack Holds with Poison so that Poison Trap plus the single-target Hold can Hold an entire spawn of 1 Boss and multiple LTs/Minions.

Basically, a good player with good design knowledge can take any set combination and give it good stats in Mid's. And a good player can play any such combination even when the set mechanics don't mesh well. But that player would still do better with sets that match better.

Lastly, I personally would never play Poison except as a Controller, because I think that the Tier 9 power is far better on a Controller than on the other powersets. I do have a very nice looking Electric Control/Poison build that should do well in AoE damage, solid in single-target, and great in control. And Electric Control has strong drains but not so strong in -Recovery, while Poison's trap is a great -Recovery power, so the two sets mesh together well for a max drain build.

Ankhammon

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Re: So, why couldn't BM/Poison work?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 04:12:06 AM »
As he says, you can make it work. But unless there is a really strong reason for wanting to run this combination, I don't see it as a good choice. There are blast sets that work better with Poison, especially given that Poison's best power is PBAoE, you want sets that work well at point blank range. Electric and Rad would be my favorite choices, and Rad would look a lot better with Poison, I think. And Electric is a drain set, which works well with Poison Trap to drain AVs. Another option would be Dark Blast, which stacks its moderate -ToHit along with Poison's moderate -ToHit to end up with a solid overal To Hit debuff on a spawn. Both Electric and Dark can stack Holds with Poison so that Poison Trap plus the single-target Hold can Hold an entire spawn of 1 Boss and multiple LTs/Minions.

Basically, a good player with good design knowledge can take any set combination and give it good stats in Mid's. And a good player can play any such combination even when the set mechanics don't mesh well. But that player would still do better with sets that match better.

Lastly, I personally would never play Poison except as a Controller, because I think that the Tier 9 power is far better on a Controller than on the other powersets. I do have a very nice looking Electric Control/Poison build that should do well in AoE damage, solid in single-target, and great in control. And Electric Control has strong drains but not so strong in -Recovery, while Poison's trap is a great -Recovery power, so the two sets mesh together well for a max drain build.

Last part first. I definitely agree that taking /poison on a controller is definitely a stronger pairing. Elec. control/ and plant/ would be my first two thoughts there with Dark/ coming up on the outside.

And yes, I think that there are some very interesting choices that look to fit "better" in corrupter blasts. I think Dual Pistols would be a great fit for this but I've got DP ear marked for my Naff/DP defender. Ice would work very well too but that's going with time for me. That leaves Elec as a good mix in my book, but I've kind of settled on this combo. 

Now as to why this combo? Well, when I played him on live, he was possibly the hardest hitting single target character I've ever rolled. Granted he was only level 23ish, but still could just cripple a boss or EB. The aoe damage will pick up in the later levels, but he'll never be known as an aoe machine.
Take a closer look at his numbers too: we are talking 47.5 % -tohit, 60+% -Def, 30% -Dam, 65% -rech, 78.75 % -Res, 275% -regen and a couple stuns and a couple holds. This is all before using BU. With BU you can really kick some of the mitigation powers into high gear (ie a 36ish second mag 3 hold in Poison Trap unless mids is wrong on the numbers).

Plus character concept. He's my Batman (or Moon Knight). The character who can't possibly do all the things he ends up doing. After all, he's got no real super powers. It's just this fancy suit (poison powers) and his rifle.
He even plays like that. I have to give some thought to what I'm going to do in a particular situation.

Sorry for sounding so excited about the combo but I can't get it out of my mind recently.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Ankhammon

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Re: So, why couldn't BR/Poison work?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 04:33:33 AM »
Oh and I forgot to add that poison trap can get to a point that it is permanent if you take certain incarnates. A permanent mag 3 pbaoe (trap style) hold on a 20 second leash. And if you trick it out it does approx. 220pts of damage before all the Incarnate damage adds and the -res you can apply.

I don't know how that will play out but I really want to try it.


Cogito, Ergo... eh?