Author Topic: If we start with no user data  (Read 69536 times)

SeaLily

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2014, 01:30:54 PM »
If people are allowed to have one insta-50, make it a time-limited thing.  For the first month or two only, and then gone.  Or make it a cash-shop option (but keep it cheap, like $10?) so you don't have first-time players doing it and getting overwhelmed.

You have to remember, there's a lot of people who have never played the game before that would be picking it up if it came back.  Pushing them instantly to the level cap is going to cause a lot of those people to drop the game rather quickly because there's not a lot to do in the endgame that matters to a player that's skipped the entire buildup through other zones.  City of Heroes is a game that's not really about endgame.  It's about leveling new characters.  There's an endgame to further improve your favorites, but most people had dozens of heroes and villains.  You don't want new players to get the idea that this is a WoW-style endgame-focused game because it's pretty lacking in endgame content if you compare it to other MMOs on the market.  Keep them focused on leveling new heroes.

What might work better is offering people the ability to skip to lv20 or lv30 on every hero instead of lv50 on one hero.  I'd still time-limit it though.

The rest depends on the business model.  People won't want to pay again for something they bought, even though it may have been from another company than owns the game if it relaunches.  Players don't care- it's a simple fact.  They bought it, they want it.  So I'd recommend that any powersets, archetypes, and costume pieces from the cash shop just all be granted to all players.  As new costume sets or pieces are made(assuming new content is produced), those can be sold to players later on. There's already some that were finished or very close to finished that never made it off of the test server, so those could be sold to players right away with a relaunch and I don't think anyone would complain.  Though, again, that depends on the business model.

The cash shop should focus on just offering monetized boosts initially.  200% XP, 200% Inf, etc.  Those are things people can buy over and over, so they're important to have to keep the game healthy.  CoH had a generous leveling curve so it won't feel like any sort of pay-to-win to have those around.

People will be willing to pay for things, but they won't be willing to pay for stuff they already bought.  That's the key thing.  Make all previously-available content available for free, charge for future powersets, archetypes, costumes, etc.  That's the best way to approach it, and it gives new players a LOT more toys to use than they had in the original's F2P model.
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Fridgy Daiere

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2014, 01:53:25 PM »
if I was starving and someone gave me okra which I cant stand.. I would eat them because I was starving.. However if you gave me a choice of that and some thing else I would eat anything else other than okra.

Unless that other thing was turnip greens.  Then I would definitely stick with the okra.  Let's just hope there's no Plan Turnip Greens, shall we?

My first priority is the costume packs, then vet powers and then slots.

This.

If for whatever reason the game is unable to start without the previous user data, I would be fine with that. Right now, we have no game at all. I'd rather have a game I have to start over from scratch with than that.

Also, this.  Mostly this.

Sentinal+ data, if there was a checksum factored in somewhere, would be nice for many folks, but it wouldn't help me at all; Happ dropped the external HDD where all my CoH stuff was and didn't tell me until after it died 3 days later.   >:(  So I didn't know to back everything up.  What about using the info on CIT?  Was that hackable?

As for options presented by Ironwolf:

1)  The one lvl 50 character at startup might interest newcomers, but probably not the vets.  The thing about our 50s wasn't that they were lvl 50; it's that we had sunk lots of time and energy in their builds with SOs and IOs, Incarnates, badges, etc.  This isn't fixed with this option.  Most vets can get get to 50 pretty quickly anyway.  An instant lvl 50 might also handicap those same newcomers...remember AE Babies?

2)  I like the idea of a veterans pack as an option at launch.  Think of it as a special edition with a price jacked up to match, only available for a limited time.  I think Happ and I paid around $75 (after tax) for the Villains DVD Collector's Edition, which came with some swag but very few in-game perks...I think we'd gladly pay that again each to regain the costume sets, super packs, and vet rewards.  No swag needed.

3)  I do agree that all of the ATs should be included with the base game, but I actually liked the fact that you had to hit lvl 50 (originally) to open the VEATs.  It gave those suffering from crippling Altoholism a reason to stick with one character for a bit.  :)

If the new owners decide not to do a veterans' special edition, perhaps an initial month-long 50% off sale in the store (on non-consumables) to celebrate the grand opening would work?



« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 02:08:39 PM by Fridgy Daiere »

silvers1

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2014, 02:30:59 PM »
1.  I wouldn't give a free level 50 to everyone.   I'd hate to try  a level 50 TF with people who have no clue how to play.
2.  All existing costume pieces are made standard.  Going forward, they can sell new costume packs.
3.  Not sure what to do with the veteran rewards, maybe give half of them as standard, then continue from there?
4.  There would have to be a decent starting number of character slots, not just 2 or 3.

Regardless of what they do, many legacy players will complain.

Either: 
What? I lost everything I bought?   
or
What?  I paid all that money for these things and you're giving it to everyone free?

Cant win regardless of the direction you go.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 02:41:12 PM by silvers1 »
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Tyrannical

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2014, 02:48:40 PM »
1.  I wouldn't give a free level 50 to everyone.   I'd hate to try  a level 50 TF with people who have no clue how to play.
2.  All existing costume pieces are made standard.  Going forward, they can sell new costume packs.
3.  Not sure what to do with the veteran rewards, maybe give half of them as standard, then continue from there?
4.  There would have to be a decent starting number of character slots, not just 2 or 3.



I agree with this, but I'd also include all veteran and event costumes, even T9 ones, to be included as standard. I'd debate that handing over all the old veteran stuff for free (except badges and one-time use items), and implementing a new veteran system would be beneficial. I'd also suggest giving away the old powersets for free too, as they're a crucial part of some characters.

With I24 and other WIP content around the corner, there's plenty to be sold on the market. There were about 5 new costume sets in development, and about 13 new powersets to be implemented (5 of which are pool powersets), a solid amount to give the market some content to cover all the costume sets and powersets that were previously purchasable.

However, if people see this as too charitable, allowing players to have a pick of about 3 purchasable powersets and 5 or so costume packs for free could also work, then you can purchase anything else you need.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 03:04:23 PM by Tyrannical »

HEATSTROKE

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2014, 03:41:04 PM »
 I am fully confident that someone somewhere has a completely fully functioning CoH server with all the account data on it... Im just sayin.. I believe that... someone has our account data somewhere....

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2014, 05:21:11 PM »
I am fully confident that someone somewhere has a completely fully functioning CoH server with all the account data on it... Im just sayin.. I believe that... someone has our account data somewhere....
It generally doesn't work like that in the real world. Not to mention that i hope you're referring to player account data, which would not be stored on a game server anyway. And there's no reason at all to keep an account server for a shut down game running all this time. Now it's very likely that the account database was archived when the servers were turned off, but there's no guarantee it was retained the entire time. NCsoft very rarely sells or reopens games after shutting them down, so it's altogether possible that keeping the data was not a priority.

Now assuming you're referring to someone somewhere setting up a server cluster to run their own private version of the game there's no reason they'd have or use the player account database when setting it up. That doesn't even make any kind of sense really. Importing terabytes of other people's account data would do nothing to improve playing on a private server.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Zombie Hustler

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2014, 05:24:48 PM »
Also, to echo what some others have said here and elsewhere, it really was no big deal to get to 50 by the end. What with some of the back end stuff they did xp wise, plus all the boosters, etc. I often found myself turning off leveling at various points (notably during Praetoria) so that my characters would be able to experience the entirety of their arcs.

It's still a little bit woogier as you get closer to 50, but nowhere near the grind it was back when the game first started (or when I picked it up, around issue 7).

The extra stuff that people bought or earned through merit/subscriptions, yes, I can understand frustrations with possibly not getting that back, but I'd still be fine with it personally. I just want to be able to play again. :D

Battlechimp

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2014, 05:33:47 PM »
I would really be against giving out instant level 50s to anyone.  As several people mentioned this game isn't about the end game,. Its easy enough to get there, most of us on these boards either know how or at least have heard the stories of how its done. When the game relaunches there will be level 50s day one... day two at the latest. 

And as for the sentinel+ files go, even Codewalker has mentioned they won't be that workable in fully restoring the characters.  And then from a business and legal standpoint it would be a horrible idea for the new company to use them.  Starting with the aforementioned possible exploration of them, it would require them to have someone oversee the usage to look for exploits, which costs money. Then they'd also need to make a way for the files to actually be uploaded, again time and money. And then there's the legal issue of using something that someone not part of the company made (but if they hired Codewalker that part is moot :) ) the time and money to code, implement and pay thepersonel isn't a great return on their dollar.

As much as I would love getting all my stuff back (subscribed from the three day head start uninterrupted until close, bought almost every edition that came out except the Mac ed, and every pack they put out) I think the best scenario for the company (or the least headache inducing) would be a fresh start and sell various starter/veterans packs.
Do them in levels
1. Cheapest one the veterans rewards plus a couple character slots
2. What was in pack 1 plus all the costume packs, couple more character slots
3. What was in packs 1 and 2 and the power sets that were released

And going by what the general market in mmos right now, would expect that to run around $25-$150.  And can already hear the "but I paid for all this already!" To which people need to accept the fact that they bought those things from NCSoft, not this new company. This new company does not owe us ANYTHING.  That sucks, but that is the reality of things. Even though they were/are part of this community, they still need to make money off of this game, they're not throwing millions at this just to be nice and give it all away. Although I would hope they'd give us returning players a sale on those things for the first month or so :)

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Mistress Urd

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2014, 06:04:36 PM »
For me, there would be some annoyance on losing all of the extra purchased stuff, (magic pack, science pack, extra slots etc) and all of the vet goodies. I had 2 maxed out vet accounts.

I would hope that if we do start over we start with 1 or 2 servers, then maybe add a 2nd/3rd if its really needed. Maybe add more slots as compensation for less servers and coming back to the game.

Triplash

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2014, 06:32:25 PM »
The way I see it, everything that was developed under Paragon Studios and earlier would be fair game to sell at discounts for a limited introductory period. My take on it would be to offer everything separately, and also put together four bundles, so individual players can pick and choose what matters more to them.

Bundle 1: The full set of Vet Rewards
Bundle 2: All the previously released power sets
Bundle 3: All the previously released costume pieces
Bundle 4: A large number of "convenience extras" like costume slots, inventory increases, cape and aura unlocks, character slots, and so on. This one can be picked up repeatedly, for folks who really want to trick out their account.

For the first 3 months the price per bundle would be really low, say $15 each. That would allow a player to pick up "the entire game", and a nice little pile of extras, for $60. That's comparable to the price you'd pay to purchase a console title or other computer game outright.

After that the price goes up, and for the next three months the price per bundle would be $25 each. Still a good price, but clearly you get the best value by getting in early. For the six months after that, the price per bundle increases to $40 each. And finally, a year after launch, the bundles remain but the introductory sales are over and they take on their full, long-term prices.

On top of that, selling consumables like Super Packs, XP boosters, dual inspirations, and so on could net them a tidy revenue stream until their own new content is ready to be added into the mix.

silvers1

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2014, 08:05:11 PM »
Maybe they should make stuff unlock based on initial subscription levels.

1.   6 month subscription = unlock all legacy costume packs and associated special powers.
2.   1 year subscription = unlock everything ( i.e. costume packs + vet powers )

Going forward they could sell new costume packs.

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Harpospoke

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2014, 08:19:55 PM »
I agree.. the number of people that would actually do this is small..

But the question is can the data even be utilized.. for me its not just the level 50's.. Its all the stuff they had on them.
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.

Minotaur

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2014, 08:30:49 PM »
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.

The problem is that if you know how the checksums work, you can probably spoof the files to create a wonderfully IOd out toon that never existed, and be sure, people would work out how to do this which is why unless the intention was to provide CoH for a fairly short time while they wrote CoH2, and they didn't care so much about it,  they would be mad to allow it. Allowing the import of the costume for a level 1 character however would be nice.

Harpospoke

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2014, 08:36:37 PM »
  City of Heroes is a game that's not really about endgame.  It's about leveling new characters.  There's an endgame to further improve your favorites, but most people had dozens of heroes and villains. 
A lot of players say that because they feel that way about their own style of play.

And it was that way for me in the beginning until I got a bunch of lvl 50s that I loved playing.   Then suddenly I was only logging on to play lvl 50s.   I would occasionally create a new character, but the urge to log back out into one of my finished characters was strong.

We have to remember there was more than one way to play CoX and the fact the game was able to be many different things to many different players was one of its strengths.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2014, 08:38:49 PM »
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.

Yes it does..

and again.. I think you cannot define what was the game for each individual player.. after 8 years, playing literally every day.. no breaks.. never took a month off and leveling 40 plus toons.. the old way... before the xp curve adjustments.. and before xp boosters.. etc etc.. I have played through the content.. do I know ever subtle storyline and details.. no.. but i have played through the content alot..

For me.. I loved seeing my characters become all that I imagined them to become.. and being level 50 was a lot of that for me.. and doing the Incarnate content was a lot of that for me.. might have been completely different for someone else..

However I think to say

" As several people mentioned this game isn't about the end game,." depends on the view of the person making the statement..

 For a new player.. or someone who enjoys the trip immensely thats true.. for someone who has made the trip over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over etc etc..

Maybe not as true..

Also for me.. and I am only speaking for me.. Its not about being level 50.. I can get to level 50 easily..

Its about loss of everything on those level 50's I had.. now again.. I may have no choice in the matter.. but that doesnt take away the potential sting of the loss for me.. maybe others arent affected by it as much..


HEATSTROKE

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2014, 08:40:40 PM »
A lot of players say that because they feel that way about their own style of play.

And it was that way for me in the beginning until I got a bunch of lvl 50s that I loved playing.   Then suddenly I was only logging on to play lvl 50s.   I would occasionally create a new character, but the urge to log back out into one of my finished characters was strong.

We have to remember there was more than one way to play CoX and the fact the game was able to be many different things to many different players was one of its strengths.

Thank You.. you said what I was trying to say in far less words...


Harpospoke

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2014, 08:48:36 PM »
And as for the sentinel+ files go, even Codewalker has mentioned they won't be that workable in fully restoring the characters.  And then from a business and legal standpoint it would be a horrible idea for the new company to use them.  Starting with the aforementioned possible exploration of them, it would require them to have someone oversee the usage to look for exploits, which costs money.
Would it?   Like I mentioned earlier...there would be an incredibly small number of people even trying to do such a thing.  Hardly sounds like something worth worrying about.   Even for those few people who end up with a fully maxed out character....I'm kinda thinking "meh".  What's the big deal?

Quote
Then they'd also need to make a way for the files to actually be uploaded, again time and money.
I'm wondering how much that could actually cost since someone came up with the way to download them in the first place without needing to spend any "time and money".  Whoever came up with Sentinel in the first place could even help them if it turns out they are a super genius or something.
Quote
And then there's the legal issue of using something that someone not part of the company made (but if they hired Codewalker that part is moot :) ) the time and money to code, implement and pay thepersonel isn't a great return on their dollar.
There is also long term thinking to consider.   How many players might get discouraged after the initial thrill of having the game back and just stop playing when the thought of rebuilding 8 years proves too daunting?    I'm fearful of that for myself.   That's not a great return on the dollar either.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2014, 08:54:59 PM »
 If they got the game back with account data people would have fully maxed out characters anyway.. I believe the number of people who would bother to try and hack the info would be very small.

Harpospoke

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2014, 09:02:34 PM »
If they got the game back with account data people would have fully maxed out characters anyway.. I believe the number of people who would bother to try and hack the info would be very small.
I feel like I was lucky I knew about Sentinel in the first place.   I'm thinking we could discount most of the player base right away because most people never even knew about it.   And how many of those people are tech-savvy enough to know how to hack into them?  I know I'm not!   ;D    And of those people...how many of them would want to come up with fake characters?   By the time all this is factored in, the "problem" would be tiny and certainly not worthy of tossing aside such a nice resource for restoring characters.

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Re: If we start with no user data
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2014, 09:32:23 PM »
What it was for me?  The fun of figuring out how to come up with a unique playing character. 

Everyone had healorz, or tanks, or scrappers... And yes, I had a 'troller that was Mind/Emp, soloable, but also a decent teammate.  'Cause my lil' SG needed a steady healer, but I also wanted to play.. um.. with myself. :P   And her storyline too.  That was important.  Making a bio was part of the play, and playing IN that bio.  If Ruby Dawn was nothing except being THE heroine... then that's how I played.  I didn't play her to be a vigilante or rogue.  I played her heroine-like.

Her sister, Cerise Dawn (Mind/Psi Dom) was the complete polar opposite and wanted people to *suffer* like she did for her loss of Rodney the Iguana.  And so I played her like that, and when Domination went off?  Rabid.  The teams I was on were a little hard pressed to keep up with me when she was on Dominate.  I decimated mobs as fast as possible, and woe be the teammate who's End couldn't keep up. :)

Then Brawling Humiliator.  The patient long-game character.  Nothing but brawl, street sweep, solo, no teams, no missions, with Willpower to keep him from falling.  Brute.  He'd just sit there and patiently punch the bad guys in the face, one by one, ignoring all the others trying to take him down... 10...20 minions surrounding him while he took on the Boss in the middle... He had nothing but time.  He just wanted to deal Justice... one punch at a time.  He never did figure out how to solo a Pylon in RWZ.  Always a standoff that.  But fun to do, because he could.

That's what it was.  Just playing the game, finding different things to do, teaming, soloing, exploring.  Heck, even listening and marvelling that the Devs put in a swaying tree's creeks, groans, and rustles from wind.  A little blissful when I 'found' that.

Anyway.  I do go on.