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Community => City of Heroes => Topic started by: Ironwolf on July 04, 2014, 01:02:59 AM

Title: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ironwolf on July 04, 2014, 01:02:59 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on July 04, 2014, 01:09:39 AM
I would say let everyone start with the premium at's like controller and mastermind. I would also say give everyone 10 character slots, because some people would buy more slots, I know I would. everything else I agree with what you said :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Zerias on July 04, 2014, 01:59:29 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

I would note that several players took Titan Sentinel backups. Assuming that the player database was indeed destroyed by NCSoft and is completely non-recoverable (or non-purchasable) allowing Sentinel Imports could be the quickest way to bring the previous playerbase back up to speed.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DragonCommando on July 04, 2014, 02:18:57 AM
I was thinking about it today.

This is what I thought: offer 2 "welcome back start packs", a premium one, with everything (powersets, costumes, signature story arcs etc) post Going Rogue unlocked, and normal one with everything pre Going Rogue unlocked plus ITrials. Of course the premium one would be more expensive (I just hope it is not too expensive, I think that 20% would be fair), I also thought  that it would be nice to let people upgrade from normal to premium "start pack" during a period  of 6(?) months, since some people might be living a difficult financial situation...

I know that it would be a form of paying again for somethings that we had already bought, but like you said it wasn't paid to this new group, and they will need some cash to keep the game running...

To reach 50 faster, what about a month of 2XP, followed by another month with all weekends 2XP?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on July 04, 2014, 02:28:04 AM
I would say let everyone start with the premium at's like controller and mastermind. I would also say give everyone 10 character slots, because some people would buy more slots, I know I would. everything else I agree with what you said :)

Controller and Mastermind are premium ATs?  They came with the basic CoH and CoV games.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on July 04, 2014, 02:30:31 AM
I was thinking about it today.

This is what I thought: offer 2 "welcome back start packs", a premium one, with everything (powersets, costumes, signature story arcs etc) post Going Rogue unlocked, and normal one with everything pre Going Rogue unlocked plus ITrials. Of course the premium one would be more expensive (I just hope it is not too expensive, I think that 20% would be fair), I also thought  that it would be nice to let people upgrade from normal to premium "start pack" during a period  of 6(?) months, since some people might be living a difficult financial situation...

I know that it would be a form of paying again for somethings that we had already bought, but like you said it wasn't paid to this new group, and they will need some cash to keep the game running...

To reach 50 faster, what about a month of 2XP, followed by another month with all weekends 2XP?

Ugh. Some of us (well, at least me  :P) do not want to level faster.

Instead, the new owners could sell inspirations for 2x XP and probably make boatloads of money.   ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: gypsyav on July 04, 2014, 02:36:30 AM
Ugh. Some of us (well, at least me  :P) do not want to level faster.

Instead, the new owners could sell inspirations for 2x XP and probably make boatloads of money.   ;D

Given there was an option to turn off XP I don't have a problem with running 2x XP events for the people who want to level quick. I'll just turn off XP so I don't level too fast. :)

I definitely want to see a way to at least get all the costume packs. I purchased all but one of them before they even opened the market and the one I didn't purchase I won a code for in a contest or I would have purchased it as well.

If I have to spend a little more on the game in order to get everything I had at shut down I'd be willing but not necessarily able if it cost too much.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on July 04, 2014, 02:38:47 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

I like option 2 the best, as it gives the players options.

Personally, I don't care much for a lot of the Vet rewards or some costume options but do want certain other costume options (namely the animated wolf tail and fur so I can remake my "fox" girl character again.. she's an alien.. really).
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on July 04, 2014, 02:41:44 AM
Given there was an option to turn off XP I don't have a problem with running 2x XP events for the people who want to level quick. I'll just turn off XP so I don't level too fast. :)

I don't want to turn XP earning off; I just don't want to earn it at gotta-have-it-now rates.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: gypsyav on July 04, 2014, 02:50:30 AM
I don't want to turn XP earning off; I just don't want to earn it at gotta-have-it-now rates.

I was thinking along the lines of only turning it off half the time you were playing. You would still earn XP at the regular rate and the people who wanted to would be earning it at the double rate.

Not perfect but gives everyone more control of how fast they level.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Little David on July 04, 2014, 03:10:33 AM
I personally like options 2 and 3 that you presented, Ironwolf. I wouldn't mind climbing the ladder to 50 with my characters again, since I personally never actually reached the cap ... ever.

And I'd at least like to complete that journey on my main characters. If we're given a free 50 at start, I'd be compelled to make one of them my flagship characters, and miss out on that journey. I mean, sure, we DO get Ouroboros and all, but ...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on July 04, 2014, 03:19:23 AM
Controller and Mastermind are premium ATs?  They came with the basic CoH and CoV games.
This is true, however when they went to free to play they became premium At's, they were either unlocked at a certain reward level or had to buy them from the paragon market at 800 each
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: houtex on July 04, 2014, 04:05:05 AM
The Sentinel+ thing.  Do that.  Make that a thing.   I can import my characters as needed or wanted.  I'll say it right now: Some I made I wouldn't miss too much, but some?  I definitely want them back if possible, to the point that I'll placeholder them and rebuild them the long way if I need to... but I'd rather not.

So, if not, then this, for the first month or possibly two after the servers come back up:

1) Max character slots available per server, period, no exceptions.

2) All costume parts available, period, no exceptions.

3) All ATs and powers therto available, period, no exceptions.

For most accounts, these three get deactivated after the first month or two, and it's back to whatever the rules were for freebie and premium.  So get in early, or suffer the fate of your slowness. 

But there are two more to deal with:

4) VIP accounts (subscribers, like I'll be) will have NO THING UNAVAILABLE TO THEM.  EVER.  Provided their VIP status is in good standing.  New content, new parts, new powers, new ATs, whatever... we get them as part of our subscription as a thank you for the monthly contribution.  While I might need to acquire INF or salvage or whatever to acquire some bits or pieces, or go through mission A to get to mission set B or whatever, I do not have to pay for it extra to get it.  It just is available to me because I already pay up per month on a monthly rate.  The Paragon Rewards thing does not apply except to Tier 9+ stuff, whereupon we get double the monthly stipend for the VIP points.

5) For any character started in the first month or two (as specified above) that character, for it's duration, will get free INF for levelling.  Enough to cover the cost of slotting all the powers you have at that level with all of the most expensive T/S/D Origin items available at a 'regular' store.  IOs aren't included, salvage and recipies aren't included.  That INF stipend is in addition to whatever you earn in battle.

---

And while I don't think any of that will come to pass, that's what I'd do, to both celebrate the return of the City, as well as reward us for the patience and belief that it would come to pass.

Here's to my being right or wrong, but the City lives regardless. :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Steelhelm on July 04, 2014, 04:21:15 AM
I like the second and the third suggestion, especially the second one. I would buy that starter pack in a second. :P However, I believe that not many of us would mind having to level up all our characters to 50. We did it once(and possibly A LOT more than once), we can do it again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DragonCommando on July 04, 2014, 04:50:36 AM
About Sentinel, Codewalker already told that it may not be a good idea...

Not for anything official, no. Sentinel+ data is too incomplete to create a fully functional character from -- at best you can get an approximation. It could be useful for a private server that doesn't mind having slightly broken and buggy characters, but no sane game operator would invite that sort of support nightmare.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MaxDefense on July 04, 2014, 05:20:03 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!


If all data is lost and we have no way to validate our past info then I think everyone that subscribes to pay to play should get first 6 months free to play

Don't like the idea of giving everone a lvl 50 we would end up with a bunch of lvl 50s that may or may not even understand the AT they are playing

I think a clean slate everyone starts fresh those that have played will level faster and the new players will learn the way we all did the first time

We will all hunt for badges again and Atlas Park will be a very busy spot like the good old days

I played the game for more than 8 years and thats just my thoughts on the subject
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Without_Pause on July 04, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
Just give me a sub, and I'll take care of the rest.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 04, 2014, 05:59:13 AM
I think I would most want all of the ATs, power sets and costume parts that were finished as of the close of the game to become part of the base game.  Anything that requires further development time for testing etc. can be sold.

Slots and maybe a limit of one free 50 could be purchasable.  Also an opening weekend Double XP would rock!

I'm not sure what would be fair as far as Vet Rewards go... if you give them all away there's nothing to work for, but if you make them at normal speed you have several years from earning them. Or there could be no restrictions on the tree and any reward can be chosen each month.  That way each player could pick what they wanted most, and the ones they didn't want as much could be religated to the end according to their whims.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: kiario on July 04, 2014, 07:01:25 AM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on July 04, 2014, 07:19:43 AM
Rather than expect being given stuff for free, I'd see:
* All previous "edition exclusive" and veteran reward items (powers, enhancements, costume parts etc) purchasable (at a steeper price then their normal equivalents)
* Launch period prices in store at discount (perhaps as much as 50%), excluding consumables.
* For some undefined "catch-up" period the prices would slowly be increased to full
* For the same period, double XP / INF gains would help most folks get up to speed with at least some of their toons
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 04, 2014, 09:35:12 AM
I like the second and the third suggestion, especially the second one. I would buy that starter pack in a second. :P However, I believe that not many of us would mind having to level up all our characters to 50. We did it once(and possibly A LOT more than once), we can do it again.
That's 8 years of playing for my lvl 50s.   :o   "Do it again" is a pretty tall order.

The Sentinel files hopefully can be used to restore our old characters.

I like the 2xXP idea since anyone who doesn't want it has the option to opt out.   Options are always best.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: fearalice on July 04, 2014, 12:36:41 PM
Open all veteran rewards to everone, and open the VT's. Reasons:

The VT's are not stronger in any way than the other AT's. And rightly so. But blocking them off is pointless. They behave differently, but not in some way that would require someone to go through 50 levels of some other class before they could figure this one out.

As for the vet rewards, exclusivity is bad, mmkay? I understand game companies want to reward people for sticking with a game for a long time, but all it really does is give people either envy of not having something others do simply for the reason that they knew about and played the game longer (and with rewards up in the 3 year range sometimes unattainable) or give others something to lord over everyone else in a "look what i have and you don't" sort of way. That adds nothing to the game. Making someone feel good simply for having something others don't isn't a good reason. Veteran rewards aren't earned. Not really. They are just accumulated.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ectomy on July 04, 2014, 01:10:54 PM
Love the double exp loot idea. Could restock market quickly that way cheaply as well. So excited.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 04, 2014, 01:31:51 PM
 I cant tell you whats fair for the new owners...
 
I can tell you what I would like.. Account restoration if possible.. If not possible at the outset then possibly it can be made available thereafter.

I can tell you that I would be willing to pay a fee of $50-$75 dollars to make that happen. And for me right now $50-$75 is A LOT of money...
 
I have all my Sentinel Plus files with can be used to validate that information.

I would like all the character slots unlocked.

I would like all my veteran rewards...



 I FULLY realize this has nothing to do with the potential new owners.. They didnt shut the game down. Its not their fault..


   The most important thing is getting the game back.. clearly.. without question...

   Would I start over from scratch if that was the ONLY option given.. sure.. if I was starving and someone gave me okra which I cant stand.. I would eat them because I was starving.. However if you gave me a choice of that and some thing else I would eat anything else other than okra.

     Now that being said My hope is that there is a way that can be worked out for long term veterans and people that invested a ton of time and energy to recoup what they lost. Is that the fault of the new ownership.. absolutely not.. should they have a gun pointed to their heads.. again absolutely not...

 should they consider some options.. including continuing to negotiate with NC Soft AFTER the game is purchased for account data... yes they should..

 should they consider a way they could be using Sentinel Plus data.. yes they should..

 should they consider the possibility of charging a fee (which they very well might have to) for the retrieval of account data.. yes they should..

 They should consider ALL options and find out what works best for them and the community at large..

  Its just how I feel... they will have to understand that many in the community will feel this way.. City of Heroes isnt just the City.. and the IP and the resources.. what made it is the community AND the identities within that community and that is our characters..

 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: InOnePiece on July 04, 2014, 02:39:35 PM
I second heatstroke. I understand customer data may not be available day 1 and I'd have no problem paying $50 to get that info back, or be in a priority line for it. Just to help get the game going. But if I have to start completely over, I will.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: therain93 on July 04, 2014, 02:48:26 PM
Start fresh if there is no way to restore accounts as it will truly be the only equitable solution.

Sentinel data is just an xml file that can be easily hacked and abused if used for anything other than loading costume and power customization.
Giving people or some people level 50s can destabilize the economy from the start, although surely some will powerlevel straight there, so let them.
Emphasize the micro in microtransactions -- make 25cent and 50 cent purchasable inspirations/powerups and keep most pricing down in the ~$1 area and income will come in handily enough, especially from powerlevelers.  Make respecs, server transfers, and renaming $5 so they're accessible and people will travel around -- use impulse buy pricing. ( ' :
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on July 04, 2014, 03:11:25 PM


If we start from scratch, I'd probably make new account(s) with different usernames from my old ones just in case they do eventually manage to get the data and a way to retrieve it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 04, 2014, 03:27:59 PM
Start fresh if there is no way to restore accounts as it will truly be the only equitable solution.

Sentinel data is just an xml file that can be easily hacked and abused if used for anything other than loading costume and power customization.
Giving people or some people level 50s can destabilize the economy from the start, although surely some will powerlevel straight there, so let them.
Emphasize the micro in microtransactions -- make 25cent and 50 cent purchasable inspirations/powerups and keep most pricing down in the ~$1 area and income will come in handily enough, especially from powerlevelers.  Make respecs, server transfers, and renaming $5 so they're accessible and people will travel around -- use impulse buy pricing. ( ' :

Im not even sure there will be an economy from the start.. as I understand it they utilized an outside company for the paragon market..

I agree that lower cost impulse pricing should be implemented..  Paragon Points should still be utilized..

I had a serious weakness for the Super Packs..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 04, 2014, 04:25:09 PM
Personally, I could live with starting all over. Happy to do so.

BUT

I had over 72 paid character slots across two paid accounts. I had every costume pack, every costume set and every veteran power across both accounts.

I think there has to be some way to get those back. I have every email showing my purchases.

If it is the only way, base game nothing else of course I'll play, happily. But there should be some inexpensive way to get at least some of that back. A starter pack, a fee to restore old accounts, whatever. My first priority is the costume packs, then vet powers and then slots.

Plus, we'll need lots more slots than 12 if they reduce the server numbers. I had characters on every server. easily over 100 total.

Don't like the idea of a free 50, so I would pass on that.

Double XP for a week when it comes back, ok.

EATS and VEATS, yes of course. You could get them as FTP player from the beginning if you payed. (at least I think so).



Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Peacemaker on July 04, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
If I have to start completely over from scratch, it would be worth it just to have Coh/cov back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on July 04, 2014, 06:55:24 PM
I would say let everyone start with the premium at's like controller and mastermind. I would also say give everyone 10 character slots, because some people would buy more slots, I know I would. everything else I agree with what you said :)
sorry I misread the question, I would go with option 2 and 3, for option 2 I would also add 500 k inf a one time buy to help everyone get off the ground, this would also not cause a imbalance in the market do to everyone starting fresh.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 04, 2014, 08:59:59 PM
Start fresh if there is no way to restore accounts as it will truly be the only equitable solution.

Sentinel data is just an xml file that can be easily hacked and abused if used for anything other than loading costume and power customization.
I'm sure that's true....

...But how big a problem could that possibly be?

First you have to start with the relatively small group of people interested in playing CoH in the first place.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who know about the Sentinel files.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who would know how to hack into them.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who would want to hack into them.



We are talking about a vanishingly small number of people here.   Hardly seems logical to deny the use of something that useful for such a small benefit.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 04, 2014, 10:09:39 PM
I'm sure that's true....

...But how big a problem could that possibly be?

First you have to start with the relatively small group of people interested in playing CoH in the first place.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who know about the Sentinel files.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who would know how to hack into them.

Now...reduce that number down again to people who would want to hack into them.



We are talking about a vanishingly small number of people here.   Hardly seems logical to deny the use of something that useful for such a small benefit.

I agree.. the number of people that would actually do this is small..

But the question is can the data even be utilized.. for me its not just the level 50's.. Its all the stuff they had on them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Iron-Emerald on July 04, 2014, 10:30:03 PM
I'd certainly like it if there was a way to have my characters back, especially the builds that took ages to put together and all the bits and pieces I scrounged from Superpacks. But the main thing is getting the game back and I'd be happy with that.

I don't know what model any potential new owners are looking at, but I think something where options 2 & 3 are enabled for any paying subscribers would make sense (and maybe with the unlocks purchasable in store for free players).
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on July 05, 2014, 01:14:52 AM
Don't the Sentinel exports contain a checksum of some kind? Then the only real way to hack them would be... well, to be Sentinel+'s developer to begin with.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Tyrannical on July 05, 2014, 01:36:34 AM
It would be nice to have all the veteran rewards from the get-go. That includes all the T9 costume packs that would be inaccessible by now, right? it'd also mean we can implement a new veteran system.

The single level 50 idea? in the long run doesn't seem as much of an impacting choice as the others, you get one 50, but you can always reach 50 anyway, veteran awards were harder to obtain than a single 50 by far. And starting out with all the AT's? VIP's get Controller and MM anyway, and getting V/EATS isn't tough, it got lowered to level 20. So out of all the options, Veteran Awards sounds more tempting.

perhaps the possibility of a 'Veterans Pack',  in which you can get access to all the old veteran awards (which actually include all the AT's as it is I think), 3 Purchasable Powersets, and perhaps 5 Costume Packs? Then the Celestial/Fire & Ice/Mecha outfits aren't lost forever, and we can rebuild our main characters from the selection of items we choose.

What do you guys think? it doesn't strictly mean paying for all your things again, but it'd mean you can have access to a selection of your prioritized account items, and help fund the game a little too.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on July 05, 2014, 02:13:50 AM
If I'm remembering right, IO recipes would sell for fairly good money even to the vendors (more so than SOs). As long as Inventions are still going to be in the game, I'd think it'd be fairly plausible to earn at least enough cash to get outfitted with SOs or Generic IOs wiithout too too much trouble...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GenericHero05 on July 05, 2014, 04:41:30 AM
If I have to start completely over from scratch, it would be worth it just to have Coh/cov back.

Amen to that!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: okami on July 05, 2014, 05:32:15 AM
I wouldn't mind leveling up again, my main concern would be having all the costumes and ATs available. If there was a reasonably priced pack to unlock them all that'd be acceptable.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Zombie Hustler on July 05, 2014, 06:54:37 AM
If for whatever reason the game is unable to start without the previous user data, I would be fine with that. Right now, we have no game at all. I'd rather have a game I have to start over from scratch with than that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: SeaLily on July 05, 2014, 01:30:54 PM
If people are allowed to have one insta-50, make it a time-limited thing.  For the first month or two only, and then gone.  Or make it a cash-shop option (but keep it cheap, like $10?) so you don't have first-time players doing it and getting overwhelmed.

You have to remember, there's a lot of people who have never played the game before that would be picking it up if it came back.  Pushing them instantly to the level cap is going to cause a lot of those people to drop the game rather quickly because there's not a lot to do in the endgame that matters to a player that's skipped the entire buildup through other zones.  City of Heroes is a game that's not really about endgame.  It's about leveling new characters.  There's an endgame to further improve your favorites, but most people had dozens of heroes and villains.  You don't want new players to get the idea that this is a WoW-style endgame-focused game because it's pretty lacking in endgame content if you compare it to other MMOs on the market.  Keep them focused on leveling new heroes.

What might work better is offering people the ability to skip to lv20 or lv30 on every hero instead of lv50 on one hero.  I'd still time-limit it though.

The rest depends on the business model.  People won't want to pay again for something they bought, even though it may have been from another company than owns the game if it relaunches.  Players don't care- it's a simple fact.  They bought it, they want it.  So I'd recommend that any powersets, archetypes, and costume pieces from the cash shop just all be granted to all players.  As new costume sets or pieces are made(assuming new content is produced), those can be sold to players later on. There's already some that were finished or very close to finished that never made it off of the test server, so those could be sold to players right away with a relaunch and I don't think anyone would complain.  Though, again, that depends on the business model.

The cash shop should focus on just offering monetized boosts initially.  200% XP, 200% Inf, etc.  Those are things people can buy over and over, so they're important to have to keep the game healthy.  CoH had a generous leveling curve so it won't feel like any sort of pay-to-win to have those around.

People will be willing to pay for things, but they won't be willing to pay for stuff they already bought.  That's the key thing.  Make all previously-available content available for free, charge for future powersets, archetypes, costumes, etc.  That's the best way to approach it, and it gives new players a LOT more toys to use than they had in the original's F2P model.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 05, 2014, 01:53:25 PM
if I was starving and someone gave me okra which I cant stand.. I would eat them because I was starving.. However if you gave me a choice of that and some thing else I would eat anything else other than okra.

Unless that other thing was turnip greens.  Then I would definitely stick with the okra.  Let's just hope there's no Plan Turnip Greens, shall we?

My first priority is the costume packs, then vet powers and then slots.

This.

If for whatever reason the game is unable to start without the previous user data, I would be fine with that. Right now, we have no game at all. I'd rather have a game I have to start over from scratch with than that.

Also, this.  Mostly this.

Sentinal+ data, if there was a checksum factored in somewhere, would be nice for many folks, but it wouldn't help me at all; Happ dropped the external HDD where all my CoH stuff was and didn't tell me until after it died 3 days later.   >:(  So I didn't know to back everything up.  What about using the info on CIT?  Was that hackable?

As for options presented by Ironwolf:

1)  The one lvl 50 character at startup might interest newcomers, but probably not the vets.  The thing about our 50s wasn't that they were lvl 50; it's that we had sunk lots of time and energy in their builds with SOs and IOs, Incarnates, badges, etc.  This isn't fixed with this option.  Most vets can get get to 50 pretty quickly anyway.  An instant lvl 50 might also handicap those same newcomers...remember AE Babies?

2)  I like the idea of a veterans pack as an option at launch.  Think of it as a special edition with a price jacked up to match, only available for a limited time.  I think Happ and I paid around $75 (after tax) for the Villains DVD Collector's Edition, which came with some swag but very few in-game perks...I think we'd gladly pay that again each to regain the costume sets, super packs, and vet rewards.  No swag needed.

3)  I do agree that all of the ATs should be included with the base game, but I actually liked the fact that you had to hit lvl 50 (originally) to open the VEATs.  It gave those suffering from crippling Altoholism a reason to stick with one character for a bit.  :)

If the new owners decide not to do a veterans' special edition, perhaps an initial month-long 50% off sale in the store (on non-consumables) to celebrate the grand opening would work?



Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: silvers1 on July 05, 2014, 02:30:59 PM
1.  I wouldn't give a free level 50 to everyone.   I'd hate to try  a level 50 TF with people who have no clue how to play.
2.  All existing costume pieces are made standard.  Going forward, they can sell new costume packs.
3.  Not sure what to do with the veteran rewards, maybe give half of them as standard, then continue from there?
4.  There would have to be a decent starting number of character slots, not just 2 or 3.

Regardless of what they do, many legacy players will complain.

Either: 
What? I lost everything I bought?   
or
What?  I paid all that money for these things and you're giving it to everyone free?

Cant win regardless of the direction you go.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Tyrannical on July 05, 2014, 02:48:40 PM
1.  I wouldn't give a free level 50 to everyone.   I'd hate to try  a level 50 TF with people who have no clue how to play.
2.  All existing costume pieces are made standard.  Going forward, they can sell new costume packs.
3.  Not sure what to do with the veteran rewards, maybe give half of them as standard, then continue from there?
4.  There would have to be a decent starting number of character slots, not just 2 or 3.



I agree with this, but I'd also include all veteran and event costumes, even T9 ones, to be included as standard. I'd debate that handing over all the old veteran stuff for free (except badges and one-time use items), and implementing a new veteran system would be beneficial. I'd also suggest giving away the old powersets for free too, as they're a crucial part of some characters.

With I24 and other WIP content around the corner, there's plenty to be sold on the market. There were about 5 new costume sets in development, and about 13 new powersets to be implemented (5 of which are pool powersets), a solid amount to give the market some content to cover all the costume sets and powersets that were previously purchasable.

However, if people see this as too charitable, allowing players to have a pick of about 3 purchasable powersets and 5 or so costume packs for free could also work, then you can purchase anything else you need.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 05, 2014, 03:41:04 PM
 I am fully confident that someone somewhere has a completely fully functioning CoH server with all the account data on it... Im just sayin.. I believe that... someone has our account data somewhere....
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 05, 2014, 05:21:11 PM
I am fully confident that someone somewhere has a completely fully functioning CoH server with all the account data on it... Im just sayin.. I believe that... someone has our account data somewhere....
It generally doesn't work like that in the real world. Not to mention that i hope you're referring to player account data, which would not be stored on a game server anyway. And there's no reason at all to keep an account server for a shut down game running all this time. Now it's very likely that the account database was archived when the servers were turned off, but there's no guarantee it was retained the entire time. NCsoft very rarely sells or reopens games after shutting them down, so it's altogether possible that keeping the data was not a priority.

Now assuming you're referring to someone somewhere setting up a server cluster to run their own private version of the game there's no reason they'd have or use the player account database when setting it up. That doesn't even make any kind of sense really. Importing terabytes of other people's account data would do nothing to improve playing on a private server.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/14557436116_28214d8ae5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oboEzS)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Zombie Hustler on July 05, 2014, 05:24:48 PM
Also, to echo what some others have said here and elsewhere, it really was no big deal to get to 50 by the end. What with some of the back end stuff they did xp wise, plus all the boosters, etc. I often found myself turning off leveling at various points (notably during Praetoria) so that my characters would be able to experience the entirety of their arcs.

It's still a little bit woogier as you get closer to 50, but nowhere near the grind it was back when the game first started (or when I picked it up, around issue 7).

The extra stuff that people bought or earned through merit/subscriptions, yes, I can understand frustrations with possibly not getting that back, but I'd still be fine with it personally. I just want to be able to play again. :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Battlechimp on July 05, 2014, 05:33:47 PM
I would really be against giving out instant level 50s to anyone.  As several people mentioned this game isn't about the end game,. Its easy enough to get there, most of us on these boards either know how or at least have heard the stories of how its done. When the game relaunches there will be level 50s day one... day two at the latest. 

And as for the sentinel+ files go, even Codewalker has mentioned they won't be that workable in fully restoring the characters.  And then from a business and legal standpoint it would be a horrible idea for the new company to use them.  Starting with the aforementioned possible exploration of them, it would require them to have someone oversee the usage to look for exploits, which costs money. Then they'd also need to make a way for the files to actually be uploaded, again time and money. And then there's the legal issue of using something that someone not part of the company made (but if they hired Codewalker that part is moot :) ) the time and money to code, implement and pay thepersonel isn't a great return on their dollar.

As much as I would love getting all my stuff back (subscribed from the three day head start uninterrupted until close, bought almost every edition that came out except the Mac ed, and every pack they put out) I think the best scenario for the company (or the least headache inducing) would be a fresh start and sell various starter/veterans packs.
Do them in levels
1. Cheapest one the veterans rewards plus a couple character slots
2. What was in pack 1 plus all the costume packs, couple more character slots
3. What was in packs 1 and 2 and the power sets that were released

And going by what the general market in mmos right now, would expect that to run around $25-$150.  And can already hear the "but I paid for all this already!" To which people need to accept the fact that they bought those things from NCSoft, not this new company. This new company does not owe us ANYTHING.  That sucks, but that is the reality of things. Even though they were/are part of this community, they still need to make money off of this game, they're not throwing millions at this just to be nice and give it all away. Although I would hope they'd give us returning players a sale on those things for the first month or so :)

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mistress Urd on July 05, 2014, 06:04:36 PM
For me, there would be some annoyance on losing all of the extra purchased stuff, (magic pack, science pack, extra slots etc) and all of the vet goodies. I had 2 maxed out vet accounts.

I would hope that if we do start over we start with 1 or 2 servers, then maybe add a 2nd/3rd if its really needed. Maybe add more slots as compensation for less servers and coming back to the game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 05, 2014, 06:32:25 PM
The way I see it, everything that was developed under Paragon Studios and earlier would be fair game to sell at discounts for a limited introductory period. My take on it would be to offer everything separately, and also put together four bundles, so individual players can pick and choose what matters more to them.

Bundle 1: The full set of Vet Rewards
Bundle 2: All the previously released power sets
Bundle 3: All the previously released costume pieces
Bundle 4: A large number of "convenience extras" like costume slots, inventory increases, cape and aura unlocks, character slots, and so on. This one can be picked up repeatedly, for folks who really want to trick out their account.

For the first 3 months the price per bundle would be really low, say $15 each. That would allow a player to pick up "the entire game", and a nice little pile of extras, for $60. That's comparable to the price you'd pay to purchase a console title or other computer game outright.

After that the price goes up, and for the next three months the price per bundle would be $25 each. Still a good price, but clearly you get the best value by getting in early. For the six months after that, the price per bundle increases to $40 each. And finally, a year after launch, the bundles remain but the introductory sales are over and they take on their full, long-term prices.

On top of that, selling consumables like Super Packs, XP boosters, dual inspirations, and so on could net them a tidy revenue stream until their own new content is ready to be added into the mix.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: silvers1 on July 05, 2014, 08:05:11 PM
Maybe they should make stuff unlock based on initial subscription levels.

1.   6 month subscription = unlock all legacy costume packs and associated special powers.
2.   1 year subscription = unlock everything ( i.e. costume packs + vet powers )

Going forward they could sell new costume packs.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 05, 2014, 08:19:55 PM
I agree.. the number of people that would actually do this is small..

But the question is can the data even be utilized.. for me its not just the level 50's.. Its all the stuff they had on them.
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Minotaur on July 05, 2014, 08:30:49 PM
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.

The problem is that if you know how the checksums work, you can probably spoof the files to create a wonderfully IOd out toon that never existed, and be sure, people would work out how to do this which is why unless the intention was to provide CoH for a fairly short time while they wrote CoH2, and they didn't care so much about it,  they would be mad to allow it. Allowing the import of the costume for a level 1 character however would be nice.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 05, 2014, 08:36:37 PM
  City of Heroes is a game that's not really about endgame.  It's about leveling new characters.  There's an endgame to further improve your favorites, but most people had dozens of heroes and villains. 
A lot of players say that because they feel that way about their own style of play.

And it was that way for me in the beginning until I got a bunch of lvl 50s that I loved playing.   Then suddenly I was only logging on to play lvl 50s.   I would occasionally create a new character, but the urge to log back out into one of my finished characters was strong.

We have to remember there was more than one way to play CoX and the fact the game was able to be many different things to many different players was one of its strengths.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 05, 2014, 08:38:49 PM
I opened one of them up once (it opens in Internet Explorer for some reason) and it looked like it had everything there...even the inspirations on your tray if I remember right.

Yes it does..

and again.. I think you cannot define what was the game for each individual player.. after 8 years, playing literally every day.. no breaks.. never took a month off and leveling 40 plus toons.. the old way... before the xp curve adjustments.. and before xp boosters.. etc etc.. I have played through the content.. do I know ever subtle storyline and details.. no.. but i have played through the content alot..

For me.. I loved seeing my characters become all that I imagined them to become.. and being level 50 was a lot of that for me.. and doing the Incarnate content was a lot of that for me.. might have been completely different for someone else..

However I think to say

" As several people mentioned this game isn't about the end game,." depends on the view of the person making the statement..

 For a new player.. or someone who enjoys the trip immensely thats true.. for someone who has made the trip over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over etc etc..

Maybe not as true..

Also for me.. and I am only speaking for me.. Its not about being level 50.. I can get to level 50 easily..

Its about loss of everything on those level 50's I had.. now again.. I may have no choice in the matter.. but that doesnt take away the potential sting of the loss for me.. maybe others arent affected by it as much..

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 05, 2014, 08:40:40 PM
A lot of players say that because they feel that way about their own style of play.

And it was that way for me in the beginning until I got a bunch of lvl 50s that I loved playing.   Then suddenly I was only logging on to play lvl 50s.   I would occasionally create a new character, but the urge to log back out into one of my finished characters was strong.

We have to remember there was more than one way to play CoX and the fact the game was able to be many different things to many different players was one of its strengths.

Thank You.. you said what I was trying to say in far less words...

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 05, 2014, 08:48:36 PM
And as for the sentinel+ files go, even Codewalker has mentioned they won't be that workable in fully restoring the characters.  And then from a business and legal standpoint it would be a horrible idea for the new company to use them.  Starting with the aforementioned possible exploration of them, it would require them to have someone oversee the usage to look for exploits, which costs money.
Would it?   Like I mentioned earlier...there would be an incredibly small number of people even trying to do such a thing.  Hardly sounds like something worth worrying about.   Even for those few people who end up with a fully maxed out character....I'm kinda thinking "meh".  What's the big deal?

Quote
Then they'd also need to make a way for the files to actually be uploaded, again time and money.
I'm wondering how much that could actually cost since someone came up with the way to download them in the first place without needing to spend any "time and money".  Whoever came up with Sentinel in the first place could even help them if it turns out they are a super genius or something.
Quote
And then there's the legal issue of using something that someone not part of the company made (but if they hired Codewalker that part is moot :) ) the time and money to code, implement and pay thepersonel isn't a great return on their dollar.
There is also long term thinking to consider.   How many players might get discouraged after the initial thrill of having the game back and just stop playing when the thought of rebuilding 8 years proves too daunting?    I'm fearful of that for myself.   That's not a great return on the dollar either.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 05, 2014, 08:54:59 PM
 If they got the game back with account data people would have fully maxed out characters anyway.. I believe the number of people who would bother to try and hack the info would be very small.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 05, 2014, 09:02:34 PM
If they got the game back with account data people would have fully maxed out characters anyway.. I believe the number of people who would bother to try and hack the info would be very small.
I feel like I was lucky I knew about Sentinel in the first place.   I'm thinking we could discount most of the player base right away because most people never even knew about it.   And how many of those people are tech-savvy enough to know how to hack into them?  I know I'm not!   ;D    And of those people...how many of them would want to come up with fake characters?   By the time all this is factored in, the "problem" would be tiny and certainly not worthy of tossing aside such a nice resource for restoring characters.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: houtex on July 05, 2014, 09:32:23 PM
What it was for me?  The fun of figuring out how to come up with a unique playing character. 

Everyone had healorz, or tanks, or scrappers... And yes, I had a 'troller that was Mind/Emp, soloable, but also a decent teammate.  'Cause my lil' SG needed a steady healer, but I also wanted to play.. um.. with myself. :P   And her storyline too.  That was important.  Making a bio was part of the play, and playing IN that bio.  If Ruby Dawn was nothing except being THE heroine... then that's how I played.  I didn't play her to be a vigilante or rogue.  I played her heroine-like.

Her sister, Cerise Dawn (Mind/Psi Dom) was the complete polar opposite and wanted people to *suffer* like she did for her loss of Rodney the Iguana.  And so I played her like that, and when Domination went off?  Rabid.  The teams I was on were a little hard pressed to keep up with me when she was on Dominate.  I decimated mobs as fast as possible, and woe be the teammate who's End couldn't keep up. :)

Then Brawling Humiliator.  The patient long-game character.  Nothing but brawl, street sweep, solo, no teams, no missions, with Willpower to keep him from falling.  Brute.  He'd just sit there and patiently punch the bad guys in the face, one by one, ignoring all the others trying to take him down... 10...20 minions surrounding him while he took on the Boss in the middle... He had nothing but time.  He just wanted to deal Justice... one punch at a time.  He never did figure out how to solo a Pylon in RWZ.  Always a standoff that.  But fun to do, because he could.

That's what it was.  Just playing the game, finding different things to do, teaming, soloing, exploring.  Heck, even listening and marvelling that the Devs put in a swaying tree's creeks, groans, and rustles from wind.  A little blissful when I 'found' that.

Anyway.  I do go on.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Battlechimp on July 05, 2014, 09:49:44 PM
Would it?   Like I mentioned earlier...there would be an incredibly small number of people even trying to do such a thing.  Hardly sounds like something worth worrying about.   Even for those few people who end up with a fully maxed out character....I'm kinda thinking "meh".  What's the big deal?
I'm wondering how much that could actually cost since someone came up with the way to download them in the first place without needing to spend any "time and money".  Whoever came up with Sentinel in the first place could even help them if it turns out they are a super genius or something.
Just going to address these two points because the other woyld be far to much speculation on both our parts

The "small" number of people who might do this might seem neglible. What would not be neglible would be the amounts of tines they would do it. Sure that one guy who just wants to IO out his character isn't going to affect much. What that guy who'll keep doing and flood the market? It wouldn't take sieone with the know to upload, alter, upload, alter time and again. What about that gold seller? They're going to replicate that one thing and destroy the market. Thought the wanna buy inf Spam's were bad. Wait until the some of cheap purples or hami-os start going. The policing of that would have to be a constant effort.

And still the using of code done by a programmer outside of the company opens up all kinds of legal issues. Even putting aside the fact that the guy who made it said it wouldn't fully recreate your character. He would need to sign over the rights to the code, or sell it. Otherwise they open themselves up to legal action. Not saying Codewalker would sue, but as a company its easier to not use it than open themselves to potential litigation. On top of having to integrate code to the already complicated code base. As a business they can't just go "hey, can you help us code this bit because we know you're a fan of the game?". It not only would need to be coded, tested, implemented and a process to deal with issues, and exploits and then the people needed to watch over the process from a customer support perspective. That is a lot of money to put into, despite the activities on this forum, would be a relatively small portion the player base.

Just saying from a business standpoint its a very unlikely decision that they'd go with it.

Of course all of this is moot if they manage to get our account data
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 05, 2014, 09:57:24 PM
Point of order: Guy Perfect wrote Sentinel+.  I've done some research into going the opposite direction.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Blackout on July 05, 2014, 10:04:48 PM
I think Houtex has gotten it about right, most of the time I never cared much about incarnate stuff of hyper powerful enhancements like the Hamidon ones. The greatest part of the game (at least for me) was how it managed to be the perfect creative outlet and I was always thinking up and testing out new concepts for heroes (but mostly villains) especially when it came to their back-stories. The atmosphere was also something that I've never really seen anywhere else too; despite the superheroes and villains, and the giant monuments and towering cityscapes the world always seemed to possess an odd gritty mundanity that made it feel more real and tangible than most of the other fictional universes I've encountered in games.

As for unique characters? Well....my first character who survived from launch all the way to the end was a four foot tall frost/invulnerability tanker....yeah. Although in retrospect his weird defunctness was probably what made him so unique in the first place and I really like that the game enabled you to indulge your creative side like that, you didn't need to make anything even vaguely functional if you didn't want to. Sometimes it was fun just to make something because you could.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 06, 2014, 12:13:49 AM
    Agreed and that was what made CoH unique.. everyone could define fun for themselves what fun was.. What I have a problem with is the perception that the person who did do all the incarnate stuff and wanted that super nice shiny enhancement somehow doesnt draw FUN out of the game.

    Its like there is this thing that says.. "if that stuff is important to you.. then you missed the fun" and "maybe you should have to start over so you learn how to have fun"..

    Speaking for myself.. I had lots of fun.. I teamed with friends.. made new friends..entered costume contests even though I never won ( but i got some good tips from people ).. helped people in game all the time... helped people with builds.. ran around reading bios and giving out random influence to people that had awesome bios... ran around and dropped random good salvage and recipes on lowbies to help them get cash..

   I also wrote extensive backgrounds for each and every character, including each persons personal motivation, interwove it with the background of Paragon city and those things were often the reason why a certain character took the powers they took and sometimes DIDNT take a power that other might think that they should have.. AND I like my builds to be extremely effective for my personal taste

  There is this thought process that I have seen in game, on various message boards and on the multiple Facebook pages that if you are one of those people that uses Mids.. buys IO's.. figures out builds.. that somehow you arent having as much FUN as the guy who just gets on a plays..

 And nothing could be FURTHER from the truth..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JaguarX on July 06, 2014, 12:22:25 AM
Indeed HEAT but seen the same line of thinking from those folks that do mid, IOs and such thinking you are not having fun if you do not partake in that min/max stuff.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 06, 2014, 02:01:13 AM
Indeed HEAT but seen the same line of thinking from those folks that do mid, IOs and such thinking you are not having fun if you do not partake in that min/max stuff.

 Agreed 100%.. and I dont classify myself as a min/maxer.. do I build effectively.. sure.. can I build things well.. yes.. but I have friends who I play with regularly that never crafted.. they still use SO's... and they have just as much fun..

 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 06, 2014, 03:57:50 AM
The thing with being able to import Sentinal+ files is that it could easily end up being the path of least resistance to getting free, powerful stuff, which could make the in game economy go belly up.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 06, 2014, 04:01:28 AM
Agreed, I just don't think those files will end up doing us much good aside from extracting costume files and such.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 06, 2014, 05:04:34 AM
Really, if they guys who are working on Score and wrote sentinel+ say they aren't useful, they aren't useful for this.

Don't you think they would know?

From heading the new efforts thread it looks like it will be from scratch with character data being restored at a later time. Account data is unlikely. This would include all the stuff that was bought from NCSoft, vet rewards and slots.

This says to me that unless something is done to offer some kind of perk pack to returning players the only costume unlocks we would have, even if character data was restored would be pieces that were actually in use and that is iffy since they wouldn't be registered to an account.

We'll find out more in a month or so but I think we can probably look at having to start from scratch. So If I were you I would put my hope on some kind of inexpensive vet pack to get access to all the parts, slots and powers we need.

I'm freaking gonna hate not having Ninja Run but I played and loved the game before it so c'est la vie.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: primeknight on July 06, 2014, 06:53:43 AM
I've read many different opinions of what people considered fun about CoH.  That was the beauty of the game.  It was so vast with a wide range of stuff to play with that the was something for everyone that loved the game, even if, and especially if those things were unique to each person. 

I hope that the account data can be restored because I don't have the time I once did, and because I'd rather create something new to level up that go on a the level 1-50 + incarnate quest that I've already completed once with my mains. 

I have several characters, which I fit into the CoH universe. My favorites became my mains, because I enjoyed them so much, both in my head/on paper and in the game.  I built them and created them like I wanted them with years of play time.  I'd want to play them again more than any other character but to do so again would be somewhat a chore.  If I have to re-create what I've already done, would this be like rebuilding a sandcastle at low tide in hopes the high tide stays away?

Maybe it's different for the rest of the the players out there, but anymore, my time investment needs to come with more than a fond memory.  I have a family to take care of now, and if my time isn't spent in ways beneficial to more that just me than I'm being selfish with that time.

So, if the character account data is gone, I may not be able to invest in the game as to do so what be a selfish endeavor: and for a game like CoH there needs to be a significant time investment.  And my free time at this point is really just parts of weekends.  Time when I should be spending with my family ironically becomes un-heroic when I play CoH.

So if there's a way to pay for what I've lost (as long as it's fair and reasonable) I may need to go that route instead of the time investment I made before.
Because If I have 4 hours a week to play I'd consider that the most I could hope for.  With that amount of time, it would take me a long time to get back to where I was.  I hope there's another way. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: jacknomind on July 06, 2014, 06:58:50 AM
This at least partially requires knowing whether or not the Paragon Market is returning with the game.

Assuming it were...

I strongly suggest simultaneously making it very easy for people to jump one character to 50, and very very hard/expensive to do more than three or four.  Similarly, all obtainable badges should not be grandfathered in.  (Bug Hunter and yearly sub/holiday/anniversary badges, and any others I'm forgetting similar to those, could be.)  I imagine the goal here is to get people playing again, as much and as quickly as possible -- not admiring a static memorial.  That's depressing to me personally and not a viable revenue stream anyway.

And a bit off-topic, but I similarly strongly suggest hiring an individual or small team to do whatever work is necessary to allow new models to be added to the game -- including costume elements, static objects, and mobs.  FX is less important but would also be good.  If the game is going to remain in the hands of a single publisher (and I don't really like that, but I can hardly pony up the cash to make a practical protest), changing the game balance by adding or altering game elements runs a serious risk of alienating players.  Allowing community members to develop new costume elements, base/decorative objects, arcs, or even zones, on the other hand, would be an excellent form of continued growth if it can be managed carefully.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 06, 2014, 07:56:10 AM
I don't know that we really need insta-50. You can get a character there pretty quickly. I would rather have more intangibles like the prestige power slide I got for the Collector's Edition. i used that for my Ice Characters. The original perk packs that give access to VIP lounge in Pocket D. A 50 I can get in a week. Those other things I can use the entire time I play.

I probably wouldn't even use the insta-50 option. I understand those who love the incarnate stuff want to get there as quick as possible, but you won't have the alpha unlock, you won't have any set bonuses, you won't have the task forces unlocked, you won't have midnighter's unlocked. Heck, unless someone plays Faultline story arc and throws down for you, you won't even have Oroborus!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: jacknomind on July 06, 2014, 10:53:37 AM
There are people who see 50 as an all-but insurmountable hurdle, and/or simply wish to recreate a character exactly as it was.

The other prestige options can be added to the market.  In the case of the alt Sprint you mentioned, it was in fact already in the Vet Rewards/Paragon Rewards.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 06, 2014, 10:56:49 AM
There are people who see 50 as an all-but insurmountable hurdle, [...]
Jigga what now?

Quote
[...]and/or simply wish to recreate a character exactly as it was.
Then they should probably play it... when the option exists that is.

I'm not opposed to the idea of insta-leveling ONE character per player to 50 during like the first week of re-release only, but I am not really for the idea either.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: FloatingFatMan on July 06, 2014, 04:42:40 PM

If all data is lost and we have no way to validate our past info then I think everyone that subscribes to pay to play should get first 6 months free to play

That doesn't sound particularly fair to the new owners.  They're not responsible for the game closing, you know. It's an entirely new company who owe the player base nothing.  We should be grateful they're spending a million plus of their own money so we can play a game again.




Don't like the idea of giving everone a lvl 50 we would end up with a bunch of lvl 50s that may or may not even understand the AT they are playing

I think a clean slate everyone starts fresh those that have played will level faster and the new players will learn the way we all did the first time

We will all hunt for badges again and Atlas Park will be a very busy spot like the good old days

I played the game for more than 8 years and thats just my thoughts on the subject

Clean slate is the best option IMO, with perhaps some temporary cheap gift packs in the store to get your various vet rewards and time limited badges back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 06, 2014, 04:45:03 PM
I'm not opposed to the idea of insta-leveling ONE character per player to 50 during like the first week of re-release only, but I am not really for the idea either.
Personally i have some reservations about allowing the instant leveling of characters to 50, but if the new teams buys it it's their game. i will admit that it's partially because it might take me a couple weeks, depending on how much free time i have, but i could easily get a character to 50 shortly after relaunch if i need one, so i may not be representative of the average player. But unless the auction house is seeded with a lot of items at launch what will take considerably longer is creating complete builds for characters, and instant leveling to 50 won't help that much since most of my favorite sets were not purple, and quite a few were based in the low and mid levels. Not that an IO build is necessary to enjoy a character, but it does allow me to indulge some of my more atypical concepts and builds.

That doesn't sound particularly fair to the new owners.  They're not responsible for the game closing, you know. It's an entirely new company who owe the player base nothing.  We should be grateful they're spending a million plus of their own money so we can play a game again.
i agree. Expecting a group that just spent millions acquiring the game from the company that shut it down and then getting it running again to give away free time because you feel like you're owed something because the previous owners shut it down is absurd. If the game relaunches it's because a group of people who really wanted it back were willing to put in the time and money to make it happen. Thinking they owe you anything after the work they've already put into reviving it is the very picture of blinkered, self-centered entitlement. No, just no.


Quote
Clean slate is the best option IMO, with perhaps some temporary cheap gift packs in the store to get your various vet rewards and time limited badges back.
If character data is available and there's a way to verify ownership i personally support allowing old characters and account perks to be restored, but i also recognize that it would probably not be easy to do right away or even in the first several months. i wouldn't be surprised if it would have to be a clean slate at launch and that any character or  data restoration would be many months later if at all.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Risha on July 06, 2014, 04:55:33 PM
First, I would continue to subscribe to an i23 Maintenance only game, with a clean slate.  I didn't do everything I wanted in CoX.  I've supported COT and will support COH2, and other successor games.  I'd support an off-line game.

That said, of Ironwolf's original options I would support: 2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Naturally, I'm greedy, and of the Vet rewards, I would prefer a percentage of the Vet rewards instead of a flat figure, but I really think this is the way to go, pick-and-choose.  I COULD live without my dark fairy...I had a LOT of stuff, ninja run, the nemesis/magic staff, costumes, my black panther!  (I am an email hoarder and I just found my new plaync game account number from 2006...)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 06, 2014, 04:59:24 PM
First, I would continue to subscribe to an i23 Maintenance only game, with a clean slate.  I didn't do everything I wanted in CoX.  I've supported COT and will support COH2, and other successor games.  I'd support an off-line game.

That said, of Ironwolf's original options I would support: 2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Naturally, I'm greedy, and of the Vet rewards, I would prefer a percentage of the Vet rewards instead of a flat figure, but I really think this is the way to go, pick-and-choose.  I COULD live without my dark fairy...I had a LOT of stuff, ninja run, the nemesis/magic staff, costumes, my black panther!  (I am an email hoarder and I just found my new plaync game account number from 2006...)
Ironwolf posted in the new efforts thread earlier today that most likely the only available version of the game will be i24. Which in some ways is the best of all probable outcomes.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Risha on July 06, 2014, 05:20:06 PM
Yes, I saw that i24 would be up and running, hopefully, (yes, I'm behind deadline and avoiding work today), and I read the 2014 COH lore last night with Posi as to what would be in I24 and it sounds amazing, but...I just want my game back no matter what.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 06, 2014, 05:22:52 PM
When I consider the psychotic amount of stuff I bought for my wife and me back then, its sobering to consider purchasing it all over. We had everything that unlocked anything, all the vet, and a ton of slots.  In any case:

Personally I'd prefer no auto-50s. If people have to start from scratch then everybody should start from scratch.

As to what I want:

1) I'd like to see a legacy bundle to unlock all former Collector's Edition / preorder unlocks that weren't converted to Veteran rewards.

2) I'd like to see a bundle to unlock all veteran rewards at once.

3) I'd like to see a bundle to unlock all previous packs of costumes / power / customization / emotes. This includes seasonal ones like the Halloween pack.

4) I'd like to see a bundle that grants every previously existing permanent costume transformation power (like the PPD hardsuit), even the ones that were convention exclusive.

5) Everything above also available as broken up smaller packs components comparable to before and representing a higher cost then buying them in bulk.

The above packs should have a steep discount (50%?) for early adopters (within the first month or two) that commit to a longer sub (i.e. 1-2 years) then revert to a normal price.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: ag88t88 on July 06, 2014, 05:37:41 PM
Assuming there is no account data, but there is user data, wouldn't it be tied to the global name?  Could we just use our global names to identify ourselves to get our old data back?  I'm assuming most people won't remember any one's global name but their own.   Or at least use the sentinel files to establish validity of the claim on certain characters?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 06, 2014, 05:53:23 PM
Even if we can't use the Sentinal+ to fully restore a character I'd like to grab my costumes.  Especially recreating an older costume finding my way through the menus to a particular part could be very time consuming.  Those menus are completely different than they were twenty issues ago.  Getting the colors as they were, the correct face and proportions...  And I don't see that even if someone developed a new costume offline and uploaded it that it would have any impact on gameplay. :)

IF by some miracle our old characters are made available to us, here's how you handle it.  Have a web page that will show a player all of their old available characters and the servers they resided on.  Allow the players to select a character and a live server to transfer that character to.  Work it just like the old server transfers.  If a name is taken they get the option to rename.  Only active players will be taking up names on the live servers so all those abandoned characters names will be free for others to use.

There are a few non-standard costume parts I have used and definitely would like back.  The DVD cape and rocket boots being the two most notable ones.  I agree with other comments I have seen on this -- Open them all up for VIP subscribers.

While I can appreciate many people want to get back to 50 ASAP, for me its about the journey.  Still, I'm not opposed to x2 XP and all that.  If I want to slow down I can always turn XP rewards off.  So I think those players should have that option.  Go for it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 06, 2014, 06:39:30 PM
Even if we can't use the Sentinal+ to fully restore a character I'd like to grab my costumes. 

Someone else mentioned that in the New Efforts thread yesterday. Easy to miss with the way that thread has been zooming by lately though, hehe!

There is actually a utility for that, yep. It's called Senticon.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9637.0.html

Older costumes might have some hiccups, due to costume pieces changing categories or whatnot, but from what I've heard it's pretty good overall. Hope that helps! :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 06, 2014, 06:40:58 PM
Assuming there is no account data, but there is user data, wouldn't it be tied to the global name?  Could we just use our global names to identify ourselves to get our old data back?  I'm assuming most people won't remember any one's global name but their own.   Or at least use the sentinel files to establish validity of the claim on certain characters?
Oh, i can remember at least a dozen global names and the associated major characters used by other players, and i doubt i'm all that unique in that regard, so i would advise against that approach. More likely to be useful is if the screenname and passwords for the game accounts have been retained. Then all you have to do is login using your old credentials. Game accounts and NCsoft master accounts are separate beasts, so if the game account data was retained and available as part of the sale i suspect that would work.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 06, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
Assuming there is no account data, but there is user data, wouldn't it be tied to the global name?  Could we just use our global names to identify ourselves to get our old data back?  I'm assuming most people won't remember any one's global name but their own.   Or at least use the sentinel files to establish validity of the claim on certain characters?

It seems to me the relational part of the character data and account data has to be the global. It possible, quite likely actually, that the global is just a string of numbers meant to be matched with a translation table that links the two data bases. Also is it a randomly assigned key or something generated by using the global as a key? (doubtful since you could change your global and not loose access to your data, but it could have just been updated with a new unique key)

Without that table, it would be difficult to get at the data reliably.

But it should be possible to query out and character's name and original server. If a player can prove who there are in RL and provide that information, a query of the data should provide the global string and thus associated character data.

There would have to be fairly stringent id checks involved. Even if you don't have access anymore you wold likely need to know the email associated with the account.

It really hinges on whether the global translation table is available and whether email is associated with character data.

If not, identifying what's what and who's who is problematic. It could still be done, just not easily (read cheaply).

It can be done. It's a question of how much resources would need to be allocated vs how big a PITA it is versus benefit. But unless the data is irretrievably lost, it is technically possible. There are databases that have been around for decades, to be sure they have been translated and updated, but they were created long ago.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: artbunker on July 06, 2014, 06:54:39 PM
I agree with this, but I'd also include all veteran and event costumes, even T9 ones, to be included as standard. I'd debate that handing over all the old veteran stuff for free (except badges and one-time use items), and implementing a new veteran system would be beneficial. I'd also suggest giving away the old powersets for free too, as they're a crucial part of some characters.

With I24 and other WIP content around the corner, there's plenty to be sold on the market. There were about 5 new costume sets in development, and about 13 new powersets to be implemented (5 of which are pool powersets), a solid amount to give the market some content to cover all the costume sets and powersets that were previously purchasable.

However, if people see this as too charitable, allowing players to have a pick of about 3 purchasable powersets and 5 or so costume packs for free could also work, then you can purchase anything else you need.

This right here is the best solution. While I brought a lot of stuff, I do realize the need for the new investors to make money on this game as well. the 3 purchasable powerset and 5 or so custume pack sounds like a great compromise.

Oh and no instant 50's please.  While I did spend the last few weeks of the game in AE a lot, I had already played through 8 years worth of toons between my account and my best friends. I already knew how most of the toons and their powers worked so I just wanted toons PL'd to 50 in AE.

I saw how some folks who didnt know what they were doing at all with thier toons. Let me tell you going through a full Maria Jenkins arc, and your blaster is blapping without any SO's at least is fustrating. Or seeing a controller(my favorite toons) jump front line and try to be a brute with their powers  SMDH. I understand the arc i mentioned is a 45-50 arc, but I think folks get my meaing. Imagine PL'd 50's in a Lambda or BAF with no idea what their doing. You thought we were pissed off in UNDERGROUND.. Man that would be a nightmare in those other two trials.

For the record, I would be more than glad to train new players in the game or assist them in anyway possible, but a insta 50 off rip. Hell No. Talk about killing the game . Also I think having PB and WS unlocked at 20 is still a good idea. It doesnt take that long to get to 20 in COH/COV . Well maybe COV , but in COH .. that wont take that long doing it the un AE way.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 06, 2014, 06:57:38 PM
There are people who see 50 as an all-but insurmountable hurdle, and/or simply wish to recreate a character exactly as it was.

The other prestige options can be added to the market.  In the case of the alt Sprint you mentioned, it was in fact already in the Vet Rewards/Paragon Rewards.

No it actually wasn't included. It was one of the few things that never made it. Positron even had a poll where he asked what people thought about selling it in the store.

You are thinking of the pre-order sprints.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Scendera on July 06, 2014, 07:03:03 PM
Open all veteran rewards to everone, and open the VT's. Reasons:

The VT's are not stronger in any way than the other AT's. And rightly so. But blocking them off is pointless. They behave differently, but not in some way that would require someone to go through 50 levels of some other class before they could figure this one out.


I'd be happy if they did this. I wasn't remotely near the level of most of you guys and I'd like to think I figured my PB out pretty well. Admittedly, she was around the 18th character I'd made, but...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: gec72 on July 06, 2014, 09:01:14 PM
The way I see it, everything that was developed under Paragon Studios and earlier would be fair game to sell at discounts for a limited introductory period. My take on it would be to offer everything separately, and also put together four bundles, so individual players can pick and choose what matters more to them.

Bundle 1: The full set of Vet Rewards
Bundle 2: All the previously released power sets
Bundle 3: All the previously released costume pieces
Bundle 4: A large number of "convenience extras" like costume slots, inventory increases, cape and aura unlocks, character slots, and so on. This one can be picked up repeatedly, for folks who really want to trick out their account.

For the first 3 months the price per bundle would be really low, say $15 each. That would allow a player to pick up "the entire game", and a nice little pile of extras, for $60. That's comparable to the price you'd pay to purchase a console title or other computer game outright.

After that the price goes up, and for the next three months the price per bundle would be $25 each. Still a good price, but clearly you get the best value by getting in early. For the six months after that, the price per bundle increases to $40 each. And finally, a year after launch, the bundles remain but the introductory sales are over and they take on their full, long-term prices.

On top of that, selling consumables like Super Packs, XP boosters, dual inspirations, and so on could net them a tidy revenue stream until their own new content is ready to be added into the mix.

I was thinking something like this as well. Assuming those acquiring the game are going to want some initial return, I think (unfortunately) we would have to buy back some things that we previously had. But it can't be anything near the initial layout and it could well be part of some discounted, preorder deal (which I think only old vets are really going to be interested in). Continue to make them available for those who take a while to come back or even for new players.

Server-wise, start with a small set of new servers. If after a while the player base is looking good or old character data is then feasible, bring the "old" servers online (or at least allow for some sort of import of the old characters onto other current servers; it still amazes me that transfers were done via  - by whole or in part - a Perl script. Crazy. You would think that there would be some version of the character data existing already though - I mean, they pretty much have to be able to build character data table structures anyway, so there has to be something to build them from. There would be that, but no actual data backups/dumps?).

Super packs, etc. seem like a whole other level of complexity. Though they would be nice, I am more than fine without them.

Oh - I maintained two paid accounts for 6-7 years. I would absolutely go back to paying $15/mo. if the game came back. I would do this even if they couldn't salvage old characters. I was an altaholic as it was, so most of my 50s were parked anyway. Given enough character slots* I could always recreate them anyway**.

* If there is anything that is a must in my mind, it would be loads and loads of slots.

** Some of my 50s were on my "son's" account, so I would probably want to move them over anyway. Starting fresh is one way, I suppose.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mistress Urd on July 06, 2014, 11:38:09 PM
Thinking about it, either we ALL get our stuff back or we ALL start fresh. Anything else brings up questions about fairness and derailing the game because player A has to start fresh but player B got all of his stuff back is PANCAKE!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Peerless Girl on July 07, 2014, 01:57:37 AM
Thinking about it, either we ALL get our stuff back or we ALL start fresh. Anything else brings up questions about fairness and derailing the game because player A has to start fresh but player B got all of his stuff back is PANCAKE!

Yup. That was more or less my point in the other thread. It's got to be all or nothing, and given the potential issues with sorting out account and ownership issues, I'm willing to bet it's 90% likely to be "nothing".
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Hafnium on July 07, 2014, 02:16:34 AM
I don't mind the idea of selling insta-50 levelers.  As has been said in many posts, this game can be played so many different ways.  And some players want that pantheon of their old 50's as soon as possible.  Some chunk of INF could even be included in the purchase so that the newly minted 50 could be slotted with SO's.  That also create cash for development of the game (likely CoX2).

However, most of those old toons had gear (IO's, Hami-O's) that will still take months to acquire and purchase.  So the next question is, would an insta-50 button and a pile of INF meet the needs of the players wanting to recreate their lost toons en mass?  If not, then it doesn't meet the community needs, and will only be a point of contention for those who see it as P2W.  Or as a pitfall for players new to CoX.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mageman on July 07, 2014, 02:22:34 AM
As I have stated earlier in another post I think that NCSoft should work with the new owners of CoX to ensure that all the account data is transferred in some manner. Preferably, logging into your NCSoft master account to get some form of unique code and verification code to ensure that you're the actual owner of the account. Failing to do this, I think that the new owners should restore as much as possible at launch and to throw the rest of the data away (bringing it back a "piece at a time" is a waste of time and resources).

That said, I think that the new owners should put everything on sale for 75% off and offer players a "bundle" as compensation for the loss of account data. This bundle would include all veteran rewards, 10 bonus character slots, and all costumes and powers available up to I23 (including the special purchases - like those available in the CoV collector's edition), and MAYBE one instant level 50 character (although I think if I have to start over, I wouldn't want this - leaving it as an option for the new owners). After 3-6 months, this sale would go away and the bundle would now cost $200.

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is I think they should put a timer on the creation of characters (or the importing characters from old accounts). People keep complaining that the "best names" are already taken. Limiting people to ONE new OR imported character once per day per account (something like a timer that resets every day at midnight). Then they have to choose which name they want the most, and give everyone a chance to get a good character name.

Part of the reason for the timer is to prevent people from filling all their slots with character names real fast at launch and people (like me) who work having to wait until they have some free time to create their first character and finding out that their character names are already taken. This, IMHO, is a fair and balanced way to help people create characters and choose names for them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: jacknomind on July 07, 2014, 02:23:41 AM
I don't mind selling *an* Insta-50.  I don't like the idea of people just re-casting their stable of 50s, though, because it disincentivizes both themselves (from re-engaging with the game) and other players (if this is a P2W option).

I don't want to just fly around Peregrine for 20 minutes and go, "Well, that was fun!".  I want to join a sewer team.  But on the other side of that coin, looking at a totally blank slate is a little overwhelming.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: AlienOne on July 07, 2014, 02:39:00 AM
I've read many different opinions of what people considered fun about CoH.  That was the beauty of the game.  It was so vast with a wide range of stuff to play with that the was something for everyone that loved the game, even if, and especially if those things were unique to each person. 

I hope that the account data can be restored because I don't have the time I once did, and because I'd rather create something new to level up that go on a the level 1-50 + incarnate quest that I've already completed once with my mains. 

I have several characters, which I fit into the CoH universe. My favorites became my mains, because I enjoyed them so much, both in my head/on paper and in the game.  I built them and created them like I wanted them with years of play time.  I'd want to play them again more than any other character but to do so again would be somewhat a chore.  If I have to re-create what I've already done, would this be like rebuilding a sandcastle at low tide in hopes the high tide stays away?

Maybe it's different for the rest of the the players out there, but anymore, my time investment needs to come with more than a fond memory.  I have a family to take care of now, and if my time isn't spent in ways beneficial to more that just me than I'm being selfish with that time.

So, if the character account data is gone, I may not be able to invest in the game as to do so what be a selfish endeavor: and for a game like CoH there needs to be a significant time investment.  And my free time at this point is really just parts of weekends.  Time when I should be spending with my family ironically becomes un-heroic when I play CoH.

So if there's a way to pay for what I've lost (as long as it's fair and reasonable) I may need to go that route instead of the time investment I made before.
Because If I have 4 hours a week to play I'd consider that the most I could hope for.  With that amount of time, it would take me a long time to get back to where I was.  I hope there's another way.

This is exactly where I stand.

I was a different person in a different situation with a different amount of time to play back in 2005-2012. Now, I've got a fiance', a wedding to plan, possibly having a baby, a house to pay for, and a job that requires a lot of time commitment.

To me, there is a monetary value to the 7 years' time I put into this game. If I were offered the chance to get even ONE (out of the 25+) of my level 50s back (especially if it were my beloved Warshade) with everything intact (All purple IOs, badges, costumes, vet rewards, and Incarnate content unlocked), then I would gladly pay for that.

Why? Because this is an old game. The audience that started playing this game back in 2004+ is a decade older with a decade's worth of changes to their lives.

Whoever is heading this effort cannot honestly think that the bulk of this community would have the necessary time to invest to get things back to how we had them. Anyone who thinks otherwise (or is depending on this) is dooming this group's next effort (CoH2?). Why? Because we'd all be too busy over the next 8 years getting things back to how they were!

For most of us (unless you don't have a job or are under house arrest), it's impossible to accomplish 5-8 years' worth of work all over again.


Before someone reads into what I say (again), let me say that I'm not saying "I won't play unless I get everything back!"

I AM saying that I certainly hope that the people getting this game back understand that the community they're dealing with now isn't exactly the same as it was when CoH was released the first time.

We may not have "moved on" (hey, we're all here furiously refreshing Ironwolf's update thread, right?), but we're certainly all a decade older.

That needs to be taken into consideration.

If it were me, I'd come up with some kind of plan that allowed people to get back what they had over their 6-8 years of gameplay in more like 2-3 years...mainly because you want to prime your audience to be "ready" for the project they'll inevitably be working on if/when they get the IP.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 07, 2014, 02:42:26 AM
This is exactly where I stand.

I was a different person in a different situation with a different amount of time to play back in 2005-2012. Now, I've got a fiance', a wedding to plan, possibly having a baby, a house to pay for, and a job that requires a lot of time commitment.

To me, there is a monetary value to the 7 years' time I put into this game. If I were offered the chance to get even ONE (out of the 25+) of my level 50s back (especially if it were my beloved Warshade) with everything intact (All purple IOs, badges, costumes, vet rewards, and Incarnate content unlocked), then I would gladly pay for that.

Why? Because this is an old game. The audience that started playing this game back in 2004+ is a decade older with a decade's worth of changes to their lives.

Whoever is heading this effort cannot honestly think that the bulk of this community would have the necessary time to invest to get things back to how we had them ourselves.

For most of us (unless you don't have a job or are under house arrest), it's impossible to accomplish 5-8 years' worth of work all over again.


Before someone reads into what I say (again), let me say that I'm not saying "I won't play unless I get everything back!"

I AM saying that I certainly hope that the people getting this game back understand that the community they're dealing with now isn't exactly the same as it was when CoH was released the first time.

We may not have "moved on" (hey, we're all here furiously refreshing Ironwolf's update thread, right?), but we're certainly all a decade older.

That needs to be taken into consideration.

DITTO...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 07, 2014, 02:45:13 AM
As I have stated earlier in another post I think that NCSoft should work with the new owners of CoX to ensure that all the account data is transferred in some manner.
One thing I've been wondering is if legally NCSoft can't provide the account information. This is a technically dead game, not a live product or even apparently one in a complete state with required tools. The login / character data they have may be deeply bound to our personal / financial transaction data. So there may be privacy laws that raise sensitive legal issues to essentially sell personal data to what amounts to a start-up company for use with an incomplete, not-currently-running codebase. Normally sales of MMOs have a level of concurrence in which they are still in a functional state when they are sold so you can justify it being a complete / related transfer. But since we don't have that here they might be required to something crazy/impossible like get discrete permission from every potential user to allow account information to be released to the new owners.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 07, 2014, 02:52:29 AM
I think this was addressed earlier by a forum member, but I can't remember which thread or which person, sorry.  Their suggestion was that NCSoft send a mass e-mail to previous CoX customers (they still have our info; I've gotten several "Hey, come play ____!" emails from them) asking our permission to release our information to the new company.  There was more, with authentication protocols and everything, but it's late, and I don't want to tell you wrong.   :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 07, 2014, 02:54:32 AM
That might be possible, but it may still expose them to unacceptable liability. Just theorizing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Noyjitat on July 07, 2014, 04:22:28 AM
in order of importance
1: badges on my main character atleast ( I had every badge available to me)
2: Costume pieces and vetrewards including the one time vetrewards (phoenix wings, celestial etc)
3: IOs, including pvp, purple, sets etc. (Preferrably for one or more characters since I had 20 characters decked out)

Disclaimer: I just want to play and it won't be the end of the world for me if I have to earn it all again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: LaughingAlex on July 07, 2014, 04:38:24 AM
I am confortable with the idea of starting over from level one.  I'd just see it as an opportunity for a fresh start.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on July 07, 2014, 04:49:35 AM
YES, I would I like my old account back. I have my old login info.

NO, it's not a deal breaker if I can't.

YES, I will want the old game back with as many of it's bells and whistles as possible.

YES, I will play if it's not possible.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 07, 2014, 05:33:30 AM
There's a game I won't mention the name of.  I had every skill maxed out but two and I was working on those.  I had a huge supply of raw materials, a thriving business, almost 12 million in cash... I decided to leave because the game was overrun with griefers and GM's wouldn't do anything.  I gave it all away to a friend.  I came back at some point and thought I'd give it another shot.  My character was gone and of course my friend had already left and all their goods disappeared with them.  It was heartbreaking.  I put on a grim face, gave a little nod and said, "I did it once.  I can do it again."

I'd rather not start from scratch, but I can and I will.  And I'll pay for it gladly.  Because I'll be home.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JaguarX on July 07, 2014, 05:40:07 AM
Now it was lot of work lot of years lot of characters but really after this time length even wit hthe old ones I probably wouldnt know how to play them as I used to, remember how or when I got many of the badges. Even if all data returned I probably end up re-rolling some and doing it all over again. But then again, I understand the crowd that if possible, IF possible, to have their stuff back because many may have put more sentiment and or time and money into their accounts than I did. Thus if it was somehow possible to give it all back, IF it was somehow possible, NOT in any way demanding "Give it all back or else nor saying anyone else said such a thing", but if possible it would be nice to have even though me personally would start over anyways. But if not, hey sometimes one must work with what they have at the time.
 

This is one of those few times there is not the slightest need to read between the lines or look for insinuations or add stuff to what I say or try and guess (usually wrongly) what I mean.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 07, 2014, 06:53:35 AM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 07, 2014, 07:23:15 AM
I honestly don't think you and I could disagree more on this, Codewalker.  For me it was never about the individual characters or the gear and level anyone had, but rather about the world, the enemies, and most importantly my fellow players.  Yes, there were fixture characters that you loved to team with for Trials, and AP lurkers who gave each server a certain vibe and familiarity, but if they all disappeared and got replaced with a different dude in tights, as long ad some of the other players are back, it'd still feel like hone to me.

After all, I did love crafting new characters.  Maybe this go round I would actually have a main who I always wanna play, but I don't think he'd be more "main" than Pointsphere ever was.  He was my Badger, and I loved him, but ultimately I loved a lot of my other characters too, I just didn't have the earliest Anniversary badges and such on those.

It was badging more than anything else that connected me to Point.  And I really don't see myself badging as much this time through since, well, I already did so much of it!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 07, 2014, 07:39:35 AM
For me it was never about the individual characters or the gear and level anyone had, but rather about the world, the enemies, and most importantly my fellow players.
I can't agree with this statement enough, especially the last aspect. Character data is irrelevant to me one way or the other: What made City the game I enjoyed were having the tools to mess with and the people I hung out with. Anything else is just gravy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 07, 2014, 07:41:51 AM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.

If a working private server comes along I am *so* there...  Not that I wouldn't play a revived CoX, I would in a heartbeat.  But we lost the city once and we could lose it again.  I want the security of my own server so I can solo if nothing else.

Go SCoRE.  8)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 07, 2014, 07:43:23 AM
Hell, the game didn't even care about level with SSK in there!  No game gives the level of freedom CoH did with regard to team building.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harlequin565 on July 07, 2014, 11:48:01 AM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 07, 2014, 12:01:40 PM
Someone else mentioned that in the New Efforts thread yesterday. Easy to miss with the way that thread has been zooming by lately though, hehe!

Tried this out and managed to get most of the old costumes to load up in Icon.  Some old ones failed to make it, probably because their paths have changed.  Since they'd still work in-game I'm sure the parts must be in there somewhere.  But at least I have shapes and something for everyone and I can use that as a basis to rebuild the rest with a little patience.

Thank you!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 07, 2014, 01:02:29 PM
But at least I have shapes and something for everyone and I can use that as a basis to rebuild the rest with a little patience.

Yeah, it's easier to fix a few problems than start the whole outfit over from scratch. Especially if you've got a lot of them to work on. Glad it helped!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Anima on July 07, 2014, 02:35:17 PM
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say that starting over from level 1 would be interesting and perfectly acceptable for a game we all thought would never come back. When it comes to veteran rewards, as well as unlockable AT's, I'd say throw those in as a pack on the market for like $5ea. (1 pack for vet rewards, 1 for classes), or thereabouts. I for one wouldn't mind throwing some money at the folks who have managed to resurrect my favorite game from the ashes of its torturous demise;  most especially if those funds will be used to upgrade COH to COH2 in a new engine. I've been hoping for that since well before the game was nuked.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Azrael on July 07, 2014, 02:52:37 PM
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say that starting over from level 1 would be interesting and perfectly acceptable for a game we all thought would never come back.

...

I for one wouldn't mind throwing some money at the folks who have managed to resurrect my favorite game from the ashes of its torturous demise;  most especially if those funds will be used to upgrade COH to COH2 in a new engine. I've been hoping for that since well before the game was nuked.

True and True.

Right now, we have nothing.

We will have to pay something to run the game again.

This may mean a virtual box, a sub and maybe a market place again...

But I'd be happy starting at L1.  It would take me back to pre: ED.  Back when DOs and SOs were a big deal for me...

Anything else is a bonus.

I just want to play again.

Azrael.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: McNum on July 07, 2014, 03:30:48 PM
If City of Heroes actually returns, but the user data is lost... I rebuild. It may take a long time, and there'll be several of the old characters that probably won't be revived, but yeah. I rebuild. With the knowledge that I've already done it, I can go at a leisurely pace and enjoy the scenery. I mean, why rush? I've been there already.

I might respec a few of them, anyway. Some power combinations didn't exist when they were made. By I24, they do.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 07, 2014, 03:33:08 PM
/threadjack

Triplash, I got your sig stuck in my head and was singing it this morning as Hubby got dressed for work.  He is now threatening to divorce me on the grounds that his wife has gone completely 'round the bend.  And the fact that I do not emulate Iron Man.
Thanks for the laughs!

/end threadjack
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Dinah Might on July 07, 2014, 03:36:51 PM
I would be happy just to have the game back.  (Even if it was only Atlas Park and all we did was hang around and talk).

The best part of this game was the journey, and I would love the chance to take the journey again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Peerless Girl on July 07, 2014, 03:58:52 PM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.

I couldn't be more further away from this viewpoint. For me it was the game, the players and friends I made, the people I knew, the people standing under atlas, the look and feel of my character, the ability to fly over Atlas and feel at home..all of that was City to me. I could care less about being level 50, about my numerous high-end IOs, stringing every last bit of performance out of my Inv/SS tank, while fun, wasn't the essence of who she was, she was the people she knew and interacted with. No, character data does *not* have to happen. I'd go so far as to say it probably *should not* happen. That's pretty much my take on it, and it won't change.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Anima on July 07, 2014, 04:27:59 PM
I couldn't be more further away from this viewpoint. For me it was the game, the players and friends I made, the people I knew, the people standing under atlas, the look and feel of my character, the ability to fly over Atlas and feel at home..all of that was City to me. I could care less about being level 50, about my numerous high-end IOs, stringing every last bit of performance out of my Inv/SS tank, while fun, wasn't the essence of who she was, she was the people she knew and interacted with. No, character data does *not* have to happen. I'd go so far as to say it probably *should not* happen. That's pretty much my take on it, and it won't change.
This. All the characters I have made could be recreated with a little effort (and hell the effort was part of the fun in the first place), it is the group of people I played the game with that made the game what it was, and I hope it is again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 07, 2014, 05:22:31 PM
Thanks for the laughs!

You're very welcome! I'm always happy to spread some laughs around  ;D

In fact... I probably shouldn't do this, but...

Spoiler for Hidden:
Ice Ice Blaster... dun dun dun dunununuh
Ice Ice Blaster... dun dun dun dunununuh

Stop! Refrigerate and listen,
Ice is back with a brand new mission.
Chilblain grabs a hold of you tightly,
Frozen like an iceberg daily and nightly.

Will it ever melt, yo? I don't know.
Mez resist the hold, you're still slowed.
Chilling Embrace rocks the beasts and the vandals,
Bitter Freeze Ray turns 'em into ice candles.

Dun dun dun dunununuh
Dun dun dun dunununuh



Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 07, 2014, 05:25:24 PM
*sigh*
I hate you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJusMpZu-eM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJusMpZu-eM)

 ;)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 05:27:33 PM
One of the things I would like to see is City of Heroes redux on Steam as soon as possible. If it is FTP with a sub option it would fit right in and you could even sell the starter packs through steam. That way you could offer them right away even if you haven't quite worked out all the bugs in a returned paragon market.

It also has a HUGE installed base of users, the perfect place to recruit!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 07, 2014, 05:29:37 PM
*sigh*
I hate you.
 ;)

 ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 07, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
I would say that a certain amount of items should be added to the game, for free. I'm not sure exactly what those would be, but a certain amount of items from stuff people had to purchase, like the jump jets from the good vs. evil edition, maybe some ATs or power sets. Most anything else that they decide to continue to charge for should be heavily reduced in price for the start of the game, other than consumables. Consumables like extra tailor tokens or inspirations, things like that, can be full price from the start.

If there's a way to use Sentinel data, it should be pursued. Even if that just means restoring a name, AT, and power sets, it would be nice to get something from them. Doesn't have to be Inf and purple IOs or what have you, but at least something.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Tyrannical on July 07, 2014, 06:17:32 PM
One of the things I would like to see is City of Heroes redux on Steam as soon as possible. If it is FTP with a sub option it would fit right in and you could even sell the starter packs through steam. That way you could offer them right away even if you haven't quite worked out all the bugs in a returned paragon market.

It also has a HUGE installed base of users, the perfect place to recruit!

I second this. CoH isn't the first MMO on Steam, so it's certainly doable, and heck, it's a good avenue for advertising.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
I second this. CoH isn't the first MMO on Steam, so it's certainly doable, and heck, it's a good avenue for advertising.

I still have it in my Steam account. I refused to delete it and since I bought it from them it still shows up. It stopped recording the hours I played early on but if the 950 games I have on Steam it is listed as my all time favorite.

See here: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975327907/ (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975327907/)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Illusionss on July 07, 2014, 06:41:32 PM
CoX Legacy:

1. Subscription, to fund further efforts and pay the new developers for work on that game.

2. The subscription should include all the bells and whistles, except things you get by unlocking; that stuff should stay the same. The bells and whistles soften the blow given when people's old alts were consigned forever to the dustbin of gaming history. Which, right now, I would guess is 90% probability of what's going to happen.

SoAs and Kheldians should be included in this, definitely.

3. At least ten character slots open at launch, with the option to buy more.

4. I would like the option to buy a disk or disks, I know a lot of people like Steam but I despise my computer being monitored by an outside party. I would happily pay for these disks, just like I did all my CoX disks.

Then while all this goes on and people are happily reunited with their alts, CoX 2 goes into production.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Peerless Girl on July 07, 2014, 06:42:14 PM
I second this. CoH isn't the first MMO on Steam, so it's certainly doable, and heck, it's a good avenue for advertising.

It also makes a really good avenue for patching. When I was Beta Testing Marvel, they used a horrible client called BitRaider (I'm sure some of you have had previous experience with it). Eventually they offered the option to install over Steam. Later on they ditched BR and now have their own client system of some other sort (I don't know because I use Steam). Somehow Marvel worked it out with Valve, and the game actually patches through Steam, which is great because as long as Steam's running, my game is patched up. Other MMOs on Steam (Champions and Star Trek) you still have to open the standard launcher to patch up, just like normal. Once you've gotten used to Steam doing it, you kind of get spoiled by that. I'd advocate for that sort of system as an option (probably not the only one) for installing and patching.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Scendera on July 07, 2014, 06:51:54 PM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

That would be perfect.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 06:56:37 PM
CoX Legacy:

3. At least ten character slots open at launch, with the option to buy more.

4. I would like the option to buy a disk or disks, I know a lot of people like Steam but I despise my computer being monitored by an outside party. I would happily pay for these disks, just like I did all my CoX disks.



3. I'll need to buy a lot more! Like 30 or so per account.

4. You could run CoH completely outside of Steam even if you bought it through Steam. No reason that should change since they are basically going with the exact same game. All they need is an external launcher.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 07, 2014, 07:02:22 PM
4. I would like the option to buy a disk or disks, I know a lot of people like Steam but I despise my computer being monitored by an outside party. I would happily pay for these disks, just like I did all my CoX disks.

This.
It's not so much that I'm paranoid, it's just that my foil hat keeps Steam from working properly, anyway.   ;)
Seriously though, I agree with Illusionss and do not like having third party applications running in the background or needing them to launch games, and I would greatly prefer no to go that route.  I do realize that it could be good advertising, but I hope the folks at Enigmatic Studio will try to exhaust all other options first.

All they need is an external launcher.
There's always Tequila.  Perhaps Leandro would allow it to be re-tooled for the new studio's use?  I know it already downloads from a specified repository, verifies all files and replaces them as necessary...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 07, 2014, 07:08:18 PM
There's always Tequila.  Perhaps Leandro would allow it to be re-tooled for the new studio's use?  I know it already downloads from a specified repository, verifies all files and replaces them as necessary...

Or Island Rum, or Multipatch, or even the old COH launcher from back before NCSoft forced the use of theirs. There is no shortage of patchers/launchers available (though Tequila/IR lean more toward downloaders rather than patchers).
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 07:09:54 PM
I'm pretty sure they will make an external launcher although to save money and time they might not do disks.

But I am sure that they will prefer you to buy direct from them so they don't have to split any money with Steam.

Steam is still a good idea because there is a vast audience there and plenty of people who like to play everything they can through Steam.

I haven't bought any EA games lately because of Origin, who basically didn't like the Steam strategy of selling games cheaply using sales, especially theirs. But really, they just didn't want to pay steam for anything, especially DLC. The publisher works with Steam to offer sales. It's not arbitrary.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 07, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
Or Island Rum, or Multipatch, or even the old COH launcher from back before NCSoft forced the use of theirs. There is no shortage of patchers/launchers available (though Tequila/IR lean more toward downloaders rather than patchers).

I didn't realize there are that many options...good to know!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 07, 2014, 07:24:56 PM
As I have the attention span of a goldfish, I wouldn't be too terribly put out by not having my old characters. The ones I want to re-make were ones that leveled quickly anyway.

And though I did purchase literally every single account upgrade there was, I don't think I could buy everything all over again should the prices remain the same and having to buy all the way up to Tier 9.

I'd say give out the vet rewards to everybody.

Or everything to everybody by selling a "box" of all the stuff that was in the store that wasn't a consumable for like $25.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: PSI-on on July 07, 2014, 07:40:42 PM
Or Island Rum, or Multipatch, or even the old COH launcher from back before NCSoft forced the use of theirs. There is no shortage of patchers/launchers available (though Tequila/IR lean more toward downloaders rather than patchers).

I'd be set there, I'm stubborn enough to still have that original launcher on my computer to this day. The City of Heroes files is one of two important reasons I can't switch over and use this 3TB HD I bought and start my computer fresh.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 07, 2014, 07:43:28 PM
You can copy the client to a new disk as-is. It hasn't ever needed to be "installed" per se, except maybe for the NCSoft launcher to work. The old launcher needed a registry key to know where the game was "installed", but it would create it the first time you ran it.

I went through several computers and I can't remember the last time I actually ran the installer from the COH discs. Just copied the files.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: PSI-on on July 07, 2014, 07:47:29 PM
You can copy the client to a new disk as-is. It hasn't ever needed to be "installed" per se, except maybe for the NCSoft launcher to work. The old launcher needed a registry key to know where the game was "installed", but it would create it the first time you ran it.

I went through several computers and I can't remember the last time I actually ran the installer from the COH discs. Just copied the files.

I'm afraid I've never been very good at computers or programming, I hope that will change this fall when I start towards my BS in Computer Science, heck I've been having massive difficulty with STO,CO,NW since the launch of NW causing those games to crash and keep getting the run around with support. I got a new video card lately, but it only seemed to fix my steam issues. *shrugs* I guess for me I just never wanted to risk losing what little bit I still had of my home for the time being, I haven't even added (not that I would know how) i24, might be the last person lol.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: CrimsonCapacitor on July 07, 2014, 07:57:31 PM
Chiming in late, as usual, which is kind of ironic for a speedster:

In my ideal world:

1)  There would be an email address to send Sentinel+ files to.  Those would be uploaded "by the owners."  There is no way for players to upload their own characters.  Why?  Cuts down on munchkinism.  Although, truth be told, I'm not sure that the Sentinel+ files aren't editable.  I believe they're just XML...

2)  Said characters had to be associated with a previous NCSoft account.  I know, I know... NCSoft probably won't have kept who paid for what expansion, etc.  But, if a method exists of verifying that "Real person X actually owned THAT toon," then that prevents people from camping names.  Perhaps, "The Sentinel+ files have to come from the email address associated with the NCSoft account."  Although I'm not clear how that would work for those who changed email addresses...

3)  It's first come, first served, with names from merging servers.  I'm guessing that there will be fewer servers WHEN the game comes back.  So yes, there will be overlaps with names/complaints/whining.  First come with the Sentinel+ files gets the names.  The others get a rename token.  It's about the best/fairest way to handle it, IMO. 

4)  If you had a previous account, you get special status, possibly a 4-6 month "subscription" or whatever to get people back in the game and let them remember how addictive it was/is.  Let them see the new store, what's available, etc.

5)  People with accounts previously also get a set number of perma-perks.  Things like veteran points for the perk tree, Incarnates unlocked, a set amount of free Paragon Points to rebuild what you had before.

6)  If in any way possible, a way to recapture SG's, or at least give some SG benefits to people that had been around for a while.  The storage bins and crafting tables, the transporters, etc., would be at least nice things to give out as a "welcome back" perk.  Perhaps even SG square footage.  Those would have to go out to the SG owners.  I could not claim my SG as I wasn't the owner. 

7)  Perhaps a "nest egg" of inf to get your toons back up and running (HA!  Speedster humor!)

8)  After that, unlock the doors, and let us GO HOME!

Failing that, let us buy back at $25-30 a box of "You want it?  You got it!" perks that essentially unlocks all the stuff we had before.

*shrugs*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: PSI-on on July 07, 2014, 07:58:38 PM
I guess my wishes are mostly the same as others: getting the game back and our characters and perks if we could, so I'll try just adding somethings here. I know I can't keep it from being debated, but I just want to state my thoughts for the powers that be.

First if we have to buy stuff back I can live with that, though getting all my slots back will be killing (I had all but like 4 or 5 on Triumph), but I hope they will consider just releasing all the edition items to us all as part of the base game since there likely isn't a way to redeem the codes even if we could find them all. I'm talking stuff like VIP, Cape of the Four Winds, Arachnos symbol and cape, Prestige Power Slide, a few badges, Alpha and Omega costumes, Valerkye costume, and a few more things. Please just share those with everyone.

Second, I know some people don't like it, but I do. One of the hardest parts of making a character, especially if you care about them and took hours making back stories and costumes and stuff, is the name. It's often hard enough to come up with a decent or good one, but then to find the one you wanted is taken can really mess up your day and set you back and let's face it, we won't likely get back all 16 servers, so names are going to be a war. Just look at how many people have brought up desires at a crack at names they always wanted back in the other forum. I agree that seeing others with the same character name would be annoying and break your immersion a little (or a lot depending on who you are), but it's really all in how you chose to deal with it internally, they likely wouldn't even have the same powers or costume. So my request is, if possible, the implementation that some other games (namely Cryptic) have where they tack on your global handle to the end of your name (hidden preferred) so as to accommodate our returning community....either that or we need our character data and all the servers or it's gonna be frustrating.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Biz on July 07, 2014, 08:01:40 PM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.

I hope that whoever the group talking to NCsoft is, they understand this. The characters were the heart of the city. The players (and potentially money) will follow wherever the characters return.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Biz on July 07, 2014, 08:09:01 PM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

Since I played almost exclusively end-content with my characters for the last few years of the game, I would be extremely relieved to start out with a character already at 50 without having to grind it up. I would wonder how the enhancement portion of this process would go. I had most of my 50s with incarnate powers, and several had multi-billion influence worth of IOs. Would this auto 50 also come with unlimited IOs to slot? I would like to be able to have just 1 character back to the point where I used to have several. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 07, 2014, 08:09:20 PM
Just for the record...

I'l start from scratch if I have to.  I did it once, I can do it again.  But if I can get my characters back I would be in heaven.  I am willing to pay a "restoration fee" to de-mangle-ify the data as necessary.  I have my old account name and PW.  And a valid credit card.   ;D

And thank you for making this effort - no matter how it turns out.  (but PLEASE let it work out!)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nightmarer on July 07, 2014, 08:14:26 PM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

Hmm, to be honest, you said that "they are us" and I believe you so I am sure that if we have to start from scratch, they'll find a way to make it as fair as possible for everyone. I'd be really annoyed though if I couldn't use my old char names... because my old chars are still existing somewhere but there's no way I can prove they belong to accounts of mine or. Also, I wouldn't like to start from scratch and in a year or so to read "hey guys, we found a way to give your old characters back" or something like that.

If at the beginning, having our characters back can't be ensured, best thing wuld be a wipe of all existing characters ingame so, if we start from scratch we start from scratch.

As for ways to make that starting from scratch more attractive, as I said, I'm sure they'll come up with something fair and appropriate.-
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Illusionss on July 07, 2014, 08:27:02 PM
3. I'll need to buy a lot more! Like 30 or so per account.

At game closure I think I had a combined total of about 35 active alts on Virtue server.

I say ten at first, because I am eventually going to want almost every one of those 35 back.... plus, who knows if I might want to roll something new? I might. But when/if CoX relaunches, I am going to start out with my hero main, my villain main, my Stalker and my Bane Spider, if we have access to the EAT/VEAT system. Once I get them rolling pretty well, I will slowly start adding others.

I cant work on seriously leveling 35 alts at once, is what I am saying. I doubt many can. So I wont need all those slots the instant the game goes Live; I doubt many will. [But hey, if they want ot give us 30 open slots on release, I am not complaining!]

I would like for everyone, veteran or not, to log in and get a badge titled "Resurgent" or maybe "Resurrexit" or "Reversus" or something like that. We have toured The Gaming Underworld of Despair, and now we are back, brimming with new life!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: pulse. on July 07, 2014, 08:32:08 PM
  I played and subbed the entire run of cox, and I'll happily do so again. I'll start from scratch in a heartbeat, because the stuff I had I earned, and enjoyed the earning. In my opinion, charge a nominal fee per vet reward, say a dollar or to each, paid for individually. Another dollar or two per character slot should be equitable, I think, if we start out with say ten or twelve.
   This is my first post here, and without being a kiss ass I'd like to say with utmost sincerity thank you for not giving up.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Illusionss on July 07, 2014, 08:44:00 PM
Just for the record...

I'l start from scratch if I have to.  I did it once, I can do it again.  But if I can get my characters back I would be in heaven.  I am willing to pay a "restoration fee" to de-mangle-ify the data as necessary.  I have my old account name and PW.  And a valid credit card.   ;D

And thank you for making this effort - no matter how it turns out.  (but PLEASE let it work out!)

I would be fine with this. I have all my old account data. The thing that worries me is, I don't have the same debit card that I had back then, because I lost my old one[!] and had to have a reissue. I'd like to be able to use my old account and pay with my new debit card.

The important thing to me is, who has the account info? That's most likely the owner. I bet there's quite a few folks who are using new debit/CCs, since game closure. These people should not be locked out of their accounts, but be able to change their payment status.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mr.Bleek on July 07, 2014, 08:58:37 PM
Here are my thoughts and suggestions.

1) If there is an intact database of user Email addresses with a record
of subscription time then offer the means to allow veterans of the game to
purchase a subscription that gives them their veteran rewards concurrent
with what they had earned before shutdown.

I am confident that deticated veterans of the game would purchase into the relaunch at a premium price if they can show their veteran status right off
the bat. After all, it seems the majority of us that are enthusiastic about
a relaunch are infact tenured veterans and from a profit stand point wouldn't
this make sense?

The premium launch purchase can also include other perks, emotes and other unlocks, possibly include extra character slots to reflect your accrued months of loyalty (e.g. 1 extra character slot for every 3 months and 1 extra slot for every year accrued) These slots, hypothetically, will only be accessible with an active VIP membership, post launch.

2)Offer a VIP subscription going forward for all subscribers. The VIP subscription
will allow all players, not just the premium launch purchasers, to begin acualing
veteran rewards and extra character slots (e.g. 1 extra character slot for every 3 months and 1 extra slot for every year accrued) These slots, hypothetically, will only be accessible with an active VIP membership.

I think this will be a good way to keep a healthy subscriber interest in paying for a monthly subscription.

3)Use AE system as a means to add game content. For example; offer a VIP membership for $9.99 per month (that offers the said perks in lines 1 and 2 ), yet also offer a VIP PREMIUM for $12.99 or $14.99 that offers monthly Developer story arcs VIA the AE system, by playing these "Premium" AE missions, a VIP premium subscriber will earn Double XP and Double influence and (i know it my be pushing it but...) maybe higher chances of getting Set IO recipes while running these VIP premium missions. If we could have guest AE story arcs every now and then, e.g. Matt "Positron" Miller, maybe other big namesin the CoH history, Comic book writers/illustrators, etc.
This would be a big downgrade from the frequent issue updates we were accustomed to, but wouldnt this make sense in a relaunch scenario where further game updates are not possible? At least we will have SOME extra content with the inate means to monetize it.

4)If later on down the line, character data is somehow recoverable and CoH new owners manage to strike a good deal with NCsoft in regards to Character retrieval, then i would even be open to purchasing those characters at a reasonable price and ,hypothetically, at that point i might have rebuilt a character to a desirable state and wouldnt have the need to purchase ALL pre-shutdown characters, just the toons i have yet to replace.

5)At the ripe stages of the CoH relaunch,it would then be wise to disclose whatever plans might exist for a CoH2, offer us a pre-purchase of the sequel and perhaps once CoH2 goes live transition CoH1 into a Free to play as the players will surely transition their monthly subscriptions to the all new and shiny predecessor to our favorite MMO of all time!


Other Thoughts:

1) The perfect scenario would be a re-launch with access to all my existing CoX characters, obviously. I cannot imagine that NCsoft has lost this data, it just doesnt make sense. It could entail allot of leg work, but i know there is a way to retrieve user data.

If we were to get a relaunch with previous characters then you have all my money, i will sell my left arm if i have to,... wait i need my left are, oh well ill just have to play on my robotics/DM mastermind!

2)How much time does NCsoft have before they could profit from CoH? I mean, how long do they have until a relaunch of CoH is no longer desirable?

In other words, NCsoft, cut us a freaking break already would ya!! Fahgedaboutit!!

3)To all my Infinity, virtue, Dark Supremacy and most of all my Sassmouth friends, i miss you all dearly, till next time.

@Mr.Bleek
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
At game closure I think I had a combined total of about 35 active alts on Virtue server.

I say ten at first, because I am eventually going to want almost every one of those 35 back.... plus, who knows if I might want to roll something new? I might. But when/if CoX relaunches, I am going to start out with my hero main, my villain main, my Stalker and my Bane Spider, if we have access to the EAT/VEAT system. Once I get them rolling pretty well, I will slowly start adding others.

I cant work on seriously leveling 35 alts at once, is what I am saying. I doubt many can. So I wont need all those slots the instant the game goes Live; I doubt many will. [But hey, if they want ot give us 30 open slots on release, I am not complaining!]

I would like for everyone, veteran or not, to log in and get a badge titled "Resurgent" or maybe "Resurrexit" or "Reversus" or something like that. We have toured The Gaming Underworld of Despair, and now we are back, brimming with new life!

i really just want to get the names I already had locked down. I play 'em a few at a time as well. I know it's not likely that someone would grab one of mine, but I'd still like to do it.

If I can afford it, I'll buy 'em on day one!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: steveharp on July 07, 2014, 09:04:40 PM
OK, I don't mind loosing all my stuff, Would be happy to pay for boosters and perks, no free 50's and have all AT's available to subs or unlock-able via shop, XP boosts etc
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: K26dp on July 07, 2014, 09:11:18 PM
1. No retroactive vet rewards (exceptions below).
2. No Sentinal+ data.
3. Unlimited characters slots (or whatever the max can be for the server) for subs. 5 slots for free players.
4. No AT or powerset locks for anything released prior to I24. Subs get access to the I24 powersets.
5. All pre-I24 non-content locked costume pieces available to all (incl. vet reward pieces). Subs get access to the I24 pieces.
6. For the first 3 months of the game coming back online, 2X everything (except Incarnate awards)... XP, Inf, drops, salvage, etc. Six months in, do a 3-month Incarnate award 2X.

This would start everyone off on the same foot, but give the dedicated a chance to move quickly. It also allows folks with subs the chance to re-create their character's appearance exactly like they would have last looked on live.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Odimodus on July 07, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
 I think a lack of database makes it harder to get the message out to previous players that the game is back, if it comes back. I mean, the prior subscription list and contact information should certainly be included. It also would make a restart more attractive to many players if they can get something back, anything.

 It might be a nice gesture on NCsoft's part to offer something to the prior players for the grief caused, intentional or unintentional. A little good will goes a long way.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Illusionss on July 07, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
i really just want to get the names I already had locked down. I play 'em a few at a time as well. I know it's not likely that someone would grab one of mine, but I'd still like to do it.

If I can afford it, I'll buy 'em on day one!

That name thing is a really good point. Drat. I didn't even consider that part of it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 07, 2014, 10:03:46 PM
If I was on the team buying the game I would make sure that NCSoft was willing to send out a EBlast to not only all the previous COH subscribers, but their entire list. After all their name will still be on it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Skull Thuggery on July 07, 2014, 10:15:39 PM
I'd been meaning to respec most of my characters anyway.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Taliseian on July 07, 2014, 10:21:12 PM
My thoughts so far...

If/When we get the game back, from what I've read there is a chance that it will be possibly in i23 or i24 Maintenance Mode - cheapest and easiest way to get us back in the City.  As the subject of this thread, more than likely that would mean no previous character information or accounts.

First off - I am OK with this.  I had an account since Beta and even though there were times I wasn't active, I always went back to the City and enjoyed the game. 

As always --->  Step 1 - Get the game!

Secondly, I think the investors will want to start making their money back as soon as possible (with a profit) while figuring out the best ways to move forward.  So in that light as well as the lack of user data, here are my ideas/recommendations.

1) CoX Classic -- CoX in i23 or i24 permanent mode - occasional new events and store items by a small team of developers in order to keep things interesting and maintain a profit stream, but the majority of the game stays as it is.

Steam sounds like a great place to start at since the installed user base is huge and better advertising.

**IF** the tools are available and the designers can do it, consider i25 and beyond - this is optional IMO.

     a) Monetization

          1) Resell the client at a low price (ie $10 CoH or CoV -- $15 for CoX -- $20 for GR)
          2) F2P as before with a few changes to encourage income such as Daily/Weekly TF passes, unlock Incarnate, or other QoL improvements
          3) VIP at a reasonable price (my idea is $9.99/mo + some store currency) to remove all limitations
          4) All store items are for sale at a reduced price for the first 60-90 days after launch or whenever the store can finally reopen (store should try to open at launch or a few weeks later), then prices return to normal with weekly sales and new costume sets and/or powers/emotes/designer pets/etc as they can be created.

2) City of Heroes 2 begins development once the game is stable and a steady stream of profit is achieved

Again, these are my ideas after about five minutes of thinking -- I'm more than sure that the developers/purchasers have already consider some or all of these and have more/better ideas in store.


T

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on July 07, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
The obvious answer is those with sentinel plus files should be allowed to re-import them back into the game.

The people that made that effort are probably the core of the player base.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: FourSpeed on July 07, 2014, 11:02:50 PM
This is a tough question, and obviously there are a LOT of opinions with many valid points.

First and foremost, I would *love* to have the game back.  Top Priority.

That said, I'm in the same camp as most of the other vets (Alien, CW, Heatstroke).

There are simply some realities that I *will* take into consideration when it does come back.

1> It closed ~1.5 years ago -- I miss it ... but I've moved on to other things that I also like.
Now, I'd be displacing those to play this: in some cases, fine, in others, not so much.  Oh, and
while I'm on that, I *don't* recall my password - I can dredge up all my box keys, mid's builds,
Sentinel data and whatnot, but that's about it.

2> If we all start from scratch, I'll play, but at that point, it IS a new game to me and I will
evaluate it on that basis. As others have said - the game itself is a big part, sure, but the
TIME we invested on the L50's we made (I started in original closed beta) *matter* to us...
Price Point will be a factor too - that's not being elitest, it's looking at *value* being offered.

Other folks are right: The New owners don't owe us and aren't responsible for what NCsoft did.
The other side of that coin: A New game also meets the above criteria - I assure you I'd look
at price point there too in light of the gameplay and options offered...  Same analysis.

3> I'm in my mid 50's - I will *not* be rebuilding everything I had - hell, I might not even
live that long...

So, we'll get whatever the new owners decide to give us...   But, what I personally would like:

a> Options to get our full vet powers back along with the other various "unlocks" we earned.

b> Options to get all the character slots we had access to.

c> Options to Retrieve / Restore some/all of my key characters.

- I like the use of Sentinel data if they can import from it.  I'd be fine with a gate on characters
you can import (time limit?, number/timeframe?, total imports?) perhaps a fee for each import.
I'm not worried about the hackers. For the most part it's not that big of a problem imho.


For me personally, those factors will be in my mind and will have at least some effect on how
much I'd be willing to pay, and how much I'd be willing to play.

I truly would like the game to come back - but after all this time, and particularly if there were
no appealing, reasonably priced options other than "fresh-start" - I'd evaluate it on that basis.


Regards,
4
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Scott Jackson on July 07, 2014, 11:22:31 PM
To keep it simple, I will:

> pay the most money if the new team can restore I23/24 gameplay in maintenance mode AND full character data.  (I had 50+ level 50 incarnates, and loved every one of them, so that probably explains why.)  :)
> pay moderately for restored gameplay and as many restored characters as possible.  I will be greatly disappointed if their IOs and incarnate progress are wiped out, since those aspects took the most effort to build into my characters.  Merely bumping a character to level 50 doesn't count as "restored" to me, so I would only pay extra for recovery of characters if their IOs are included, though hopefully it won't be on a purely per-character basis...please show mercy for those with alt-itits and charge by account (I had two) or offer bulk discounts.
> pay little (but still something) for CoH gameplay with no character data or very limited (XP only) restoration.
> pay nothing or the minimum permitted, if the game is poorly operated / unstable.   However I trust the new team to take care of us, so this is not a likely scenario.

It is worth noting that unless I (we?) feel strongly reassured that the game will not be closed again without a fair chance to operate private servers, then any noticeable amount of money paid to restore characters may be seen as something unpleasant.  I am willing to have some of my cash grabbed, but not be punched in the throat at the same time.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 07, 2014, 11:36:24 PM
I am posting this here from another thread because its probably my feelings exactly and I cant say it any better

 
Now, to the real issue at hand.  Yes, I want my characters back.  I really, really want them back.  Logging into the game and not seeing them waiting for me would be heart-breaking.  So on the question of "should the buyers fight to get our characters?", my answer is a resounding YES.

But I'm also a mature adult who knows that you don't always get what you want.  So New Guys, fight like hell, but I won't be mad if it just isn't feasible.

And as I have stated earlier. I would be more than willing of paying a reasonable processing fee (which IMO is in the neighborhood of $50-$75) to be able to access all my characters with their IO's should that data become available. The new owners obviously are not responsible for the shutdown of the game. Yet I do believe that to restore City of Heroes is not just the City.. but the Heroes themselves...

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Remidi on July 07, 2014, 11:56:12 PM
I don't think the free 50 is an attractive idea, at least for me.  I only had one 50 after seven years of play (Hi, I'm Remidi and I'm an altoholic), and I have more time now than I did then.

The one thing I feel strongly about is that I don't like the assorted bundle ideas I've seen floating around.  While I completely understand that the new studio is not responsible for what I bought from the old game, people are still going to see it as buying something twice.    Let's break it down.

Costumes - All costume parts that existed at shutdown should be standard when the revamp opens.  We're dealing with creative people.  I'm sure they can design new things for us to ooh and ah over, and pay for if that's what we want.

Veteran Rewards - Not counting the badges, these fell into four groups.  Costume parts I've mentioned.  The others were consumables, additions to characteristics like costume or character slots, and minor powers.  Once you pull out the costume parts, there is not a lot worth getting worked up about.  The new devs could finagle with the number of costume slots or free respecs to give us a higher starting point and make most people happy.  Some low level things, like joining SGs, could be made standard.

Paragon Market - This gets stickier.  My opinion is that power sets, like costume parts, should be standard at the re-opening.  I have to be frank in that I never liked the idea of buying power sets.  Restricting some to subscribers is one thing, but I felt that if I was paying the full whack for my account each month, power sets should come with my sub.  For some other things, I really don't see how they can avoid telling players that their purchases are gone.  I was a big crafter, and bought a number of boosts to carry more salvage and recipes.  I have accepted that I won't have them.

TL;DR - Make the things people want most like costumes and power sets standard, boost some things here and there, and live with what's gone.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: psquared007 on July 08, 2014, 12:12:45 AM
Giving away level 50 chars doesn't make sense to me.  An experienced player will level much faster than a nube anyway.

If there was a way to determine prior players with their paid playing time, I could see providing some Vet rewards.  Maybe even a partial amount of time credited versus the entire amount.  I'm someone who played for over six years, but I think it might hurt the game if there are immediately two classes of players.

I'm also not a big fan of pay $$$ for rewards or in game bonuses.  I hope they go with a single subscription amount of $9.95 a month.  That would amount would get you any of the in game rewards that anyone at your level or earned status through TFs etc. would get.

A free to play option is OK too but it should be very limited in some major way.  i.e.  a level cap or 30 or 40 or a limited number of char. slots.  Personally the ability to create a large number of alts is what kept me and suspect a large number or people coming back to the game.

In the end, I'm just totally jazzed at the possibility of logging in once again.  : )

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mistress Urd on July 08, 2014, 12:21:41 AM
1. No retroactive vet rewards (exceptions below).
2. No Sentinal+ data.
3. Unlimited characters slots (or whatever the max can be for the server) for subs. 5 slots for free players.
4. No AT or powerset locks for anything released prior to I24. Subs get access to the I24 powersets.
5. All pre-I24 non-content locked costume pieces available to all (incl. vet reward pieces). Subs get access to the I24 pieces.
6. For the first 3 months of the game coming back online, 2X everything (except Incarnate awards)... XP, Inf, drops, salvage, etc. Six months in, do a 3-month Incarnate award 2X.

This would start everyone off on the same foot, but give the dedicated a chance to move quickly. It also allows folks with subs the chance to re-create their character's appearance exactly like they would have last looked on live.

IMHO that gives away too much for free, I wouldn't bother to sub then. They do need some way to generate income. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on July 08, 2014, 12:48:14 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

Some good will opening all AT's at creation
A starter pack is smart on vet rewards
Open all powersets or give 2 power sets not provided in the basic (not sure what the plan is here)
I would also maybe provide maybe 2 costume packs

Then you can micro transaction other items like inspiration
IO's
etc etc

Have a monthly sub with points to buy stuff

Anyways just some ideas
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 08, 2014, 01:30:03 AM
I can't agree with this statement enough, especially the last aspect. Character data is irrelevant to me one way or the other: What made City the game I enjoyed were having the tools to mess with and the people I hung out with. Anything else is just gravy.
Pretty much this. Already making plans with some previous players to run TFs and the like if the game comes back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: ukaserex on July 08, 2014, 01:42:46 AM
Since this is where I'm supposed to express my opinion on the matter, I'm more than pleased and feel privileged to do so.

I do not think an auto-gimme of a level 50 character is a good idea. Remember all the complaints about being on tfs with people who clearly had never played much before? (Ex: A level 8 blaster with Tankbuster badge. Odds are they got some pl help - not saying they couldn't have been teaming with an SG, but coupled with lack of basic knowledge, I think it's fair to say what conclusion most would jump to.)

I also don't think vet rewards, at least, not labeled as such, are a good idea. This company, whoever they are, will likely have no idea who was a vet and who wasn't. (based on the premise "if we start with no user data".)

Assuming the game gets ported over, or copied, or however that transfer happens, I'd be just fine with zoning into Atlas, Galaxy or Outbreak, whereever. Even Praetoria. I would definitely miss my badges on my main. I worked countless hours for those. I will likely never forget how much fun getting The Really Hard Way badge was! And I sometimes regret working so hard to get the empath badge on my blaster.
For a small segment of the community, the "shiny" and the pursuit thereof was what bound us together.

I know on Liberty server, folks like Energizing Ion and many others bent over backwards to help EVERYONE that wanted a badge to get one, no matter what it was. To have to start that whole process of getting 1400+ badges over again on a different character....my word, I honestly don't think I could or would do it. I just don't have the time anymore. It was rough enough to just keep up with the new content and new badges. To play catch-up - well, for me, that would be brutal. It would definitely give me some goals right away, lol.

So, if there's no user data and all of us have to start over from scratch, with level 1 heroes and villains...oh me, oh my. That's just...scary to contemplate. I'm more than willing to try, if that's all we have. But, I can honestly say I'd pay $100 bucks to have my main and all his badges just so I wouldn't have to do it again.

He could even be level 1 again, as long as I had my badges (and accolades, lol). I can always level up, that's too easy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 08, 2014, 01:51:08 AM
The obvious answer is those with sentinel plus files should be allowed to re-import them back into the game.

The people that made that effort are probably the core of the player base.

Then the obvious answer is wrong. The people who wrote the extractor have said on more than one occasion that these files are not useful for a relaunch. they were meant to be used on private servers.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 08, 2014, 02:17:26 AM
I think this was addressed earlier by a forum member, but I can't remember which thread or which person, sorry.  Their suggestion was that NCSoft send a mass e-mail to previous CoX customers (they still have our info; I've gotten several "Hey, come play ____!" emails from them) asking our permission to release our information to the new company.  There was more, with authentication protocols and everything, but it's late, and I don't want to tell you wrong.   :)
I just got an email from them when I tried to log onto one of my accounts as a test....so they still have my info.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 08, 2014, 02:19:54 AM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.
Same here.

I'm so attached to my characters that I put each of them on "sentry duty" at various locations around the city.   In my mind they were not going to cease to exist...they are still there.  Something about that thought bothers me.  It's silly...I know it's silly...but my characters were kinda real to me.

It might not be possible for me to forget my login stuff since I did it so much over the years....barring a head injury.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 08, 2014, 02:28:46 AM
I couldn't be more further away from this viewpoint. For me it was the game, the players and friends I made, the people I knew, the people standing under atlas, the look and feel of my character, the ability to fly over Atlas and feel at home..all of that was City to me. I could care less about being level 50, about my numerous high-end IOs, stringing every last bit of performance out of my Inv/SS tank, while fun, wasn't the essence of who she was, she was the people she knew and interacted with. No, character data does *not* have to happen. I'd go so far as to say it probably *should not* happen. That's pretty much my take on it, and it won't change.
I think my view is changing a little.  I now think we should just be glad we got Icon and stop asking for things like playing with other players and using powers.   I might even say getting those things "should not" happen.   After all, Icon is better than nothing and that's all I want.

 ;) :) 8) :P :-*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 08, 2014, 02:36:39 AM
I would be fine with this. I have all my old account data. The thing that worries me is, I don't have the same debit card that I had back then, because I lost my old one[!] and had to have a reissue. I'd like to be able to use my old account and pay with my new debit card.

The important thing to me is, who has the account info? That's most likely the owner. I bet there's quite a few folks who are using new debit/CCs, since game closure. These people should not be locked out of their accounts, but be able to change their payment status.
Yep...same here.  I've changed cards since the closure as well.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 08, 2014, 02:42:21 AM
Yep...same here.  I've changed cards since the closure as well.

If the character data is available.. I am confident there is a way to determine what account/login name/email  it was attached to..

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 08, 2014, 02:49:04 AM
I am posting this here from another thread because its probably my feelings exactly and I cant say it any better

And as I have stated earlier. I would be more than willing of paying a reasonable processing fee (which IMO is in the neighborhood of $50-$75) to be able to access all my characters with their IO's should that data become available. The new owners obviously are not responsible for the shutdown of the game. Yet I do believe that to restore City of Heroes is not just the City.. but the Heroes themselves...
That's a good way to put it.

It's called "City of Heroes/Villains"...not "City".

I'll also pony up some cash to get my characters back.  Not a problem.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on July 08, 2014, 03:20:08 AM
I'd be happy to pay a reasonable fee to re-import my characters from the Sentinel+ files.

I have money.  Take it and give me what I want in return.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Myrmydon on July 08, 2014, 06:48:11 AM
Access to I24 without old characters, a store, or vet rewards would still draw money out of my pocket to be able to fly again.

Starting over with all of those years of active experience on the game at its height at close would open up new avenues to explore that I might not have considered the first time around.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: PSI-on on July 08, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
Character data needs to happen. Even if account purchase data is lost, character data could be tied back to login names and authentication hashes if you remember the password.

Otherwise, it's not really COH. Paragon City is not just the buildings and the Hellions, it's the combined total of what everyone who has ever played created and added to the common story. I've always said that my characters are still there, doing what they did before, and will continue doing so whether I have contact with them or not.

If a buyout is successful and everything is put back just so to pick up where we left off, then that will be the 'official' server. If it is not and NCsoft manages to put the final nail in the coffin of COH by selling pieces of an incomplete game, then when a community server pops up capable of continuing the story, whether by manually authenticated imports, or activation of project ultra sentinel, that will be the official server.

Sure, I might still subscribe and say hi to people from time to time. But it would never be home.

I agree. If they can get it, then an effort should be made to restore them to their owners. While it's not a requirement, for some of us (even those too proud or afraid to actually admit it) we're just as attached to those characters and the hardwork/money we put into the game over the years as we are to the game itself and the friends we made. True we've lost them, WE have, but if NCSoft still has them they were never really "lost" just temporarily out of reach and I think it's frankly weird to want to give that up, especially the people complaining about not wanting to lose their names.

Frankly if you didn't want to use your old character data then don't claim it, or if you came to terms with the loss then reclaim it and delete them, if you really came to terms then you should have no issue deleting them when you get them back, otherwise this should be a happy scenario. I also agree with others that starting with a "clean slate" isn't a realistic situation for more than maybe a couple of days and then what would be the point, and new players filtering in won't be on the same page and if they have a beta period then if they don't wipe that then those lucky people would have a head start so what's the point in worrying, that's MMO's for you. I say if they can't get it, fine I will be there with you all returning, if they can then they must and then it should be up to the players to choose to use them or not. Just because you would choose to start over, given the option, doesn't mean everyone else has to. Of course, this is if it's actually and option and they can get it, and if so they should.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Odimodus on July 08, 2014, 12:28:31 PM
Maybe instead of a free lvl 50, they should give us 50 free level ups. Then, you could spread it around your characters or use them all on one. You could even sell packs of them (say in 5's, 25's, and 50's) for cash so the purchasers can cover acquirement expenses.

 I cant see people not being happy with it when they are a level away from a power they want, or are falling behind, or want to move past content they don't care for.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Relitner on July 08, 2014, 02:20:57 PM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 08, 2014, 02:50:13 PM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Dinah Might on July 08, 2014, 03:19:30 PM
Access to I24 without old characters, a store, or vet rewards would still draw money out of my pocket to be able to fly again.

Starting over with all of those years of active experience on the game at its height at close would open up new avenues to explore that I might not have considered the first time around.

I am ready to get from 0 - 50 with you again Myr.  I'd pay big money just to have our old great times back.  I look forward to seeing you back in our "home".
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ouul on July 08, 2014, 03:59:19 PM
I have been giving considerable thought to this topic, and have bounced some ideas off other former players as far as the return goes.

These ideas are acting under the assumption that character/account data will not be available, and our new Freedom Phalanx secure a launchable version of i24, with all the trimming leading up to it (The Paragon Market and all related systems).

Bear in mind that no matter how noble it may seem, bargaining for customer's account and character data is essentially one company SELLING PERSONAL INFORMATION to a third party. I would be flabbergasted if it all goes through that way.

NONETHELESS! When (if) the game is revived from these efforts, whether or not they are to continue development on the current incarnation, or begin development on a "CoH II" a hybrid Free-to-Play/subscription model should be kept in place. This will become clear as I detail the rest.

Upon launch, MUCH FANFARE! EVENTS! FUN! CITY OF HEROES IS BACK WOOOOOOO!!

Free to play will remain as is, as will the perks associated with Premium Accounts of yore. Subscription model will follow 14.99/month with discounts for bulk purchasing (buy more time and SAVE!) but instead of the 400 Paragon Points (hereafter known as PP), supply 800PP with each recurring month subscription. This will encourage people to subscribe, while also allowing people to pick up on the backlog of shinies or gather other perks.

Now I hear you say: "But Ouul? What about all my STUFF!?!"

Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 08, 2014, 04:08:08 PM
Your ideas are well-thought-out, your time frames are acceptable (I'd lean toward the 90 day mark, though, to ensure that EVERYONE has a chance to hear the news), and your prices are doable.  Bravo!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Myrmydon on July 08, 2014, 04:32:55 PM
I have been giving considerable thought to this topic, and have bounced some ideas off other former players as far as the return goes.

These ideas are acting under the assumption that character/account data will not be available, and our new Freedom Phalanx secure a launchable version of i24, with all the trimming leading up to it (The Paragon Market and all related systems).

Bear in mind that no matter how noble it may seem, bargaining for customer's account and character data is essentially one company SELLING PERSONAL INFORMATION to a third party. I would be flabbergasted if it all goes through that way.

NONETHELESS! When (if) the game is revived from these efforts, whether or not they are to continue development on the current incarnation, or begin development on a "CoH II" a hybrid Free-to-Play/subscription model should be kept in place. This will become clear as I detail the rest.

Upon launch, MUCH FANFARE! EVENTS! FUN! CITY OF HEROES IS BACK WOOOOOOO!!

Free to play will remain as is, as will the perks associated with Premium Accounts of yore. Subscription model will follow 14.99/month with discounts for bulk purchasing (buy more time and SAVE!) but instead of the 400 Paragon Points (hereafter known as PP), supply 800PP with each recurring month subscription. This will encourage people to subscribe, while also allowing people to pick up on the backlog of shinies or gather other perks.

Now I hear you say: "But Ouul? What about all my STUFF!?!"

Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?

If something like this was to occur, I would buy all of it one Day One, play with store-bought IOs as I level up again and never look back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: AlienOne on July 08, 2014, 04:34:42 PM

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?

Excellent suggestion.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: mrultimate on July 08, 2014, 04:52:51 PM
Excellent suggestion.

Yes a very very very good idea.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 08, 2014, 05:12:00 PM
That is a pretty good idea! I would also suggest letting it run for 90 days. I had three accounts in this that need all that stuff so it might take time. It's priced fairly, but it's still 110 dollars and some budgets are tight!

But yes, this could work nicely. The only thing, what about slots? I had one server maxed out on two accounts. That was like 72 slots I need.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 08, 2014, 05:54:02 PM
Great idea there Ouul! Way better than mine was, hehe  ;D

One thing I might throw in there, is I'd like to see costume sets and powersets discounted or put into bundles too, even if only for that introductory period. Pick, say, any 4 full costume sets for $9.99; or any 5 powersets for $19.99. Just an example pricing, of course. That helps vets get back to where they were a little faster, and lets them prioritize which options they want first, while still providing revenue to the new studio.

But yeah, I like it! I could live with a plan like that for sure.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on July 08, 2014, 06:08:38 PM
Then the obvious answer is wrong. The people who wrote the extractor have said on more than one occasion that these files are not useful for a relaunch. they were meant to be used on private servers.

I give Guy credit for being able to do almost ANYTHING that would serve our community.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: K26dp on July 08, 2014, 06:18:30 PM
VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?

This is well thought-out, and I'm sure it would appeal to the prospective investors as a way to quickly start re-couping their money.

That said, the thought of re-paying for intangible things that I had already bought makes me want to throw up just a bit. Yes, I understand, under new management and all that. I understand that intellectually. It doesn't matter to me psychologically.

But I would simply subscribe and start all over again rather than re-buy stuff I had already bought. I wouldn't begrudge others though.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 08, 2014, 07:20:10 PM
I have been giving considerable thought to this topic, and have bounced some ideas off other former players as far as the return goes.

These ideas are acting under the assumption that character/account data will not be available, and our new Freedom Phalanx secure a launchable version of i24, with all the trimming leading up to it (The Paragon Market and all related systems).

Bear in mind that no matter how noble it may seem, bargaining for customer's account and character data is essentially one company SELLING PERSONAL INFORMATION to a third party. I would be flabbergasted if it all goes through that way.

NONETHELESS! When (if) the game is revived from these efforts, whether or not they are to continue development on the current incarnation, or begin development on a "CoH II" a hybrid Free-to-Play/subscription model should be kept in place. This will become clear as I detail the rest.

Upon launch, MUCH FANFARE! EVENTS! FUN! CITY OF HEROES IS BACK WOOOOOOO!!

Free to play will remain as is, as will the perks associated with Premium Accounts of yore. Subscription model will follow 14.99/month with discounts for bulk purchasing (buy more time and SAVE!) but instead of the 400 Paragon Points (hereafter known as PP), supply 800PP with each recurring month subscription. This will encourage people to subscribe, while also allowing people to pick up on the backlog of shinies or gather other perks.

Now I hear you say: "But Ouul? What about all my STUFF!?!"

Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?

I would also go for 90 days.  Well thought out.  Bravo!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: chuckv3 on July 08, 2014, 07:24:44 PM
Access to I24 without old characters, a store, or vet rewards would still draw money out of my pocket to be able to fly again.

Starting over with all of those years of active experience on the game at its height at close would open up new avenues to explore that I might not have considered the first time around.

I've noticed some B.O.S.S. folks here. I was a member for about a year, but then went on to another (east coast) server and started a low-pressure group of my own. Do you feel like leading again?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Relitner on July 08, 2014, 07:27:01 PM
Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?

Well done!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on July 08, 2014, 08:37:49 PM
I like to add everyone should get Ninja run by default  ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Dinah Might on July 08, 2014, 08:48:42 PM
I've noticed some B.O.S.S. folks here. I was a member for about a year, but then went on to another (east coast) server and started a low-pressure group of my own. Do you feel like leading again?
The Bureau of Occult and Scientific Studies must live again!  I'm here to help!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 08, 2014, 08:49:53 PM
Only thing I would add is a "slot Bundle"

30 Character Slot Bundle: $29.95 Cursed by crippling Alt-itis? Can't read an article about a cold sore outbreak and not think "Wow! That's a great idea for a character!"? We got you covered with a 30 pack of character slot tokens that will allow you to recreate derivative man as many times as you please!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 08, 2014, 08:54:22 PM
Or for the low low price of $49.95, get the ULTIMATE package... 300 character slots!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Risha on July 08, 2014, 08:57:01 PM
Codewalker, that is just MEAN  **counting $$$**
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Biz on July 08, 2014, 08:58:57 PM
Or for the low low price of $49.95, get the ULTIMATE package... 300 character slots!

I think a few altaholics just "J"ed in their "P"s
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 08, 2014, 09:29:14 PM
Or for the low low price of $49.95, get the ULTIMATE package... 300 character slots!

Ok! Wrap it up! I'll take one for each account!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 08, 2014, 09:33:24 PM
Ok! Wrap it up! I'll take one for each account!

In the words of the prophet, "Shut up and take my money!"
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: blacksly on July 08, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Or for the low low price of $49.95, get the ULTIMATE package... 300 character slots!

SOLD!!
Or BOUGHT!!!
Whichever works to take my money faster.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on July 08, 2014, 10:34:40 PM
Or for the low low price of $49.95, get the ULTIMATE package... 300 character slots!
I'll take two.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Wyrm on July 08, 2014, 10:39:16 PM
VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?
In for 3.  Maybe 4, even though there were only 3 accounts in the household when the game went dark.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eskreema on July 09, 2014, 12:42:48 AM
Dont foget the DEVELOPER PACK:  you would have to be a true dev to have any more constructive powah!  Extra AE Mission slots, larger bases with more storage, even your toon gets bigger pockets for up to 100 enhancements more storage at the vaults in the city.  Buy and sell like the biggest fish with more inventory at Wentworths and the consignment house plus more room for salvage.  Not sold yet?  We'll throw in a personal Crafting table so you can make what you want whereever you are (not up as often as field crafter table).  $29.99

Someone remind me:  did we have the ability to open up a auction house and AE dialogue on the fly?  I thought we did as a tiered badge for selling/buying.  Could put that in too.

Then buy them all for $159.99 (All packs including mine and Codewalker's)
Offer hard merchandice like copies of the game, back issues of comics, official registered hero and villian cards - especially if things like lifetime subs are offered
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 09, 2014, 02:27:16 AM
Auction house from anywhere was a vet reward, I think AE from anywhere was tied to an AE badge.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ouul on July 09, 2014, 02:41:17 AM
AE Tablet and Portable Crafting Table are tied to the accolades related to AE and crafting, respectively. I am still of the opinion that stuff acquired ingame like that should remain so. It gives us incentive to actually play the game! :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kyriani on July 09, 2014, 03:06:27 AM
I look at it like this... if the account data is not recoverable... I would still be content starting over. Know why? Because I'm not an ungrateful schmuck. I'd be grateful just to have the game back. Starting over fresh is a small price to pay to get the game itself back. Characters can always be remade and releveled. Enhancements can always be reacquired. How anyone can say they care about the game and in the same breath say they won't play if they have to start from scratch just makes my head spin.

Bottom line: I'd like to see a limited time launch special "starter pack" for a nominal fee (50$ wouldn't be too much to ask IMO) that basically gives you maxed vet rewards and all the "buyable/nonconsumable" content that existed at the point of shutdown. This would allow vets of the game to come back and have their basic status and previous purchases essentially restored. We'd have all the base elements to work with that we had before the shutdown to rebuild what was lost. Have this limited time special starter pack available for a month or so. Anyone who is truly a fan of COH still will have plenty of time to get back into the game with that special starter pack. I don't think anyone should be given free 50's or be allowed to have sentinel files used to restore characters because frankly sentinel files can be edited and those who don't have those files are outta luck. It's just not fair. Everyone should start on even footing IMO.

Anyone who thinks its too much to ask to actually PLAY THE GAME doesn't actually care enough about bringing the game back. Do you love city of heroes for real? Then you damn well should support this if it happens whether your account info is available or not.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 09, 2014, 03:14:10 AM
I look at it like this... if the account data is not recoverable... I would still be content starting over. Know why? Because I'm not an ungrateful schmuck. I'd be grateful just to have the game back. Starting over fresh is a small price to pay to get the game itself back. Characters can always be remade and releveled. Enhancements can always be reacquired. How anyone can say they care about the game and in the same breath say they won't play if they have to start from scratch just makes my head spin.

Bottom line: I'd like to see a limited time launch special "starter pack" for a nominal fee (50$ wouldn't be too much to ask IMO) that basically gives you maxed vet rewards and all the "buyable/nonconsumable" content that existed at the point of shutdown. This would allow vets of the game to come back and have their basic status and previous purchases essentially restored. We'd have all the base elements to work with that we had before the shutdown to rebuild what was lost. Have this limited time special starter pack available for a month or so. Anyone who is truly a fan of COH still will have plenty of time to get back into the game with that special starter pack. I don't think anyone should be given free 50's or be allowed to have sentinel files used to restore characters because frankly sentinel files can be edited and those who don't have those files are outta luck. It's just not fair. Everyone should start on even footing IMO.

Anyone who thinks its too much to ask to actually PLAY THE GAME doesn't actually care enough about bringing the game back. Do you love city of heroes for real? Then you damn well should support this if it happens whether your account info is available or not.

and this is exactly the kinds of mindset we are trying to avoid..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Skull Thuggery on July 09, 2014, 03:17:30 AM
I can guarantee you that I'll be starting from scratch when City of Titans goes live. I don't see why I can't do the same when City of Heroes returns.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kyriani on July 09, 2014, 03:20:08 AM
and this is exactly the kinds of mindset we are trying to avoid..

Why? Shouldn't we be grateful to have the game back at all? If it comes down to either having the game back sans character data, or no game at all/game fails because of lack of funding, I'll choose having COH back every single time.

To not support the game just because the character data is not recoverable is essentially killing the game as surely as NCSoft did the first time. And it's also a huge F-U to the people going through the effort/spending the money to make this deal happen.

You enjoyed leveling those characters once. Why wouldn't you enjoy it again?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 09, 2014, 03:44:15 AM
Why? Shouldn't we be grateful to have the game back at all? If it comes down to either having the game back sans character data, or no game at all/game fails because of lack of funding, I'll choose having COH back every single time.

To not support the game just because the character data is not recoverable is essentially killing the game as surely as NCSoft did the first time. And it's also a huge F-U to the people going through the effort/spending the money to make this deal happen.

You enjoyed leveling those characters once. Why wouldn't you enjoy it again?
Exactly. It's been repeatedly confirmed that if it's possible to acquire the character/game account data then the team currently negotiating wants it, but apparently it's iffy whether it's in a usable state, so it's not a matter of whether they want it, but whether it's available at all. Obviously they want the account data because being able to play your original characters in City of Heroes is a much bigger draw to bring players back than being able to play CoH and having to start everything over.
Would i prefer to have access to my old characters? Of course. Will i play it even if that's not possible? Also of course.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kyriani on July 09, 2014, 03:49:25 AM
Exactly. It's been repeatedly confirmed that if it's possible to acquire the character/game account data then the team currently negotiating wants it, but apparently it's iffy whether it's in a usable state, so it's not a matter of whether they want it, but whether it's available at all. Obviously they want the account data because being able to play your original characters in City of Heroes is a much bigger draw to bring players back than playing CoH and having to start everything over.
Would i prefer to have access to my old characters? Of course. Will i play it even if that's not possible? Also of course.

Yea I'm totally down for trying to get the data. I'd love to have all my old toons back and ready to play as if I never left. But IF the data isn't recoverable and I have to start over, I'll still show respect and gratitude to the people who made the Herculean effort to give me the game back by supporting the server. Sure I'd like to have an option of getting my account back to the state it was in at shutdown without being gouged too badly of course but either way I'll support the game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Relitner on July 09, 2014, 03:51:12 AM
Why? Shouldn't we be grateful to have the game back at all? If it comes down to either having the game back sans character data, or no game at all/game fails because of lack of funding, I'll choose having COH back every single time.

To not support the game just because the character data is not recoverable is essentially killing the game as surely as NCSoft did the first time. And it's also a huge F-U to the people going through the effort/spending the money to make this deal happen.

You enjoyed leveling those characters once. Why wouldn't you enjoy it again?

Well said! But I don't think folks are being intentionally abrasive. They just want it back the way it used to be. Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 09, 2014, 03:52:21 AM
Why? Shouldn't we be grateful to have the game back at all? If it comes down to either having the game back sans character data, or no game at all/game fails because of lack of funding, I'll choose having COH back every single time.

To not support the game just because the character data is not recoverable is essentially killing the game as surely as NCSoft did the first time. And it's also a huge F-U to the people going through the effort/spending the money to make this deal happen.

You enjoyed leveling those characters once. Why wouldn't you enjoy it again?


Its these things in the mindset that we are trying to avoid..

Quote
I'm not an ungrateful schmuck.

 So anyone who wants their character data back is ungrateful and a schmuck..

Quote
  How anyone can say they care about the game and in the same breath say they won't play if they have to start from scratch just makes my head spin.

 You have a right to your opinion and they have a right to not play if thats THEIR choice. That doesnt mean they dont care. Its just that they have a different value system and requirement to play than you do.

Quote
  Anyone who is truly a fan of COH still will have plenty of time to get back into the game

 REALLY... you've accounted for how many peoples lives have changed over the ten years since the inception of the game and have decided that if they do not invest the time that they did previously or are able to invest that time that you are able to invest is not TRULY a fan.. gotcha. Forget those people who have new careers and obligations and possible even new spouses and family.. if you were TRULY a fan you would make time to get back into the game..

Quote
It's just not fair. Everyone should start on even footing IMO.

 For me this is a truly silly argument.. there are many people who have the time and the ability to get to level 50 within hours.. let alone days and weeks.. the equal footing argument is silly..
 
Quote
Anyone who thinks its too much to ask to actually PLAY THE GAME doesn't actually care enough about bringing the game back.

 All you people hanging out in Pocket D.. your not PLAYING.. hey.. all you people hanging out talking under Atlas.. Your not PLAYING.. Stop running that costume contest.. thats not PLAYING.. or should people just play according to YOUR definition of what is playing.. so if character data was available. and people got back everything they wanted.. they arent PLAYERS apparently.. got it.. and not only that.. not only are they not players.. They dont CARE.. ok.. got it..

 
Quote
Do you love city of heroes for real?


 By your definition probably not..

 
Quote
Then you damn well should support this if it happens whether your account info is available or not.

 
 and if they choose not to.. thats THEIR choice.. and they have every right to do so..

 
Quote
Why? Shouldn't we be grateful to have the game back at all?


 I think its been said repeatedly on this thread and others.. CONSISTENTLY.. that the most important thing is getting the game back. but if at all possible people would like their data..

 
Quote
If it comes down to either having the game back sans character data, or no game at all/game fails because of lack of funding, I'll choose having COH back every single time.

  How did you even remotely draw a conclusion to lack of funding when we are not being asked to fund anything ??

 
Quote
  To not support the game just because the character data is not recoverable is essentially killing the game as surely as NCSoft did the first time. And it's also a huge F-U to the people going through the effort/spending the money to make this deal happen.


  The few people (and for the record I havent seen any) who might choose not to play will have no ultimate bearing on the game because the number of people who choose to play will FAR outnumber them..

   Lets be clear about something as well. The efforts of everyone involved have been applauded consistently.. but lets not think that this is completely altruistic.. Investors invest for one reason and one reason only.. They can make money.. So while restoring the game if successful is admirable and should be celebrated.. Its also a business..  and if you are investing in a business you should know your clientele.. You should know their expectations and demands.. you wont be able to satisfy them all.. but you SHOULD be aware of them...

 
Quote
You enjoyed leveling those characters once. Why wouldn't you enjoy it again?


  I could give you a whole list of reasons.. many of which wont meet your standard of approval..

  1) I dont have the time I had TEN YEARS AGO.. my life has changed dramatically and there are more things that demand my time and attention.. the chief of them being my FOUR YEAR OLD son..

  2) After 8 years of playing I have done the level things.. a great many times.. I dont find the leveling path extremely entertaining anymore.. personally I would rather start every character at Level 35.. I find that part of the game the most intersting..

  3) I dont want to sink the time and effort in AGAIN.. whats the long term plan for this venture ?? just 18 months ago it was.. Play for free FOREVER.. expect FOREVER was only 18 months..

  4) I enjoy the latter part of the game more than the early part.. but I guess in your opinion thats not playing..

  5) I enjoyed builds at the point of shutdown.. I dont have the inclination, the time, or the energy to REINVEST another 8 years..

 Now that being said.. If there were no character data.. I would play.. as much as I did before.. probably not.. would i spend the money I did before ( and I spent THOUSANDS playing this game ).. probably not..

 DO I want the game back... absolutely..

 What I have come to resent is exactly the picture your first post stated.. and mindset that places an erroneous label on people that is divisive and unfair.. 





Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kyriani on July 09, 2014, 03:52:41 AM
Well said! But I don't think folks are being intentionally abrasive. They just want it back the way it used to be. Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening.

Sure we all want that... I get that. But we have to be realistic and realize that may not be possible. To that I say: Would rather have nothing but memories? Or the chance to rebuild what was lost? I know I'd want a chance to rebuild what was taken. A chance to do that is far more than we have right now.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Relitner on July 09, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
Sure we all want that... I get that. But we have to be realistic and realize that may not be possible. To that I say: Would rather have nothing but memories? Or the chance to rebuild what was lost? I know I'd want a chance to rebuild what was taken. A chance to do that is far more than we have right now.

I'm 110% on-board with the team who can pull this off, data or no data.
I do so miss power-thrusting Hellions off of Atlas skyscrapers :(
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 09, 2014, 04:08:38 AM
Sure we all want that... I get that. But we have to be realistic and realize that may not be possible. To that I say: Would rather have nothing but memories? Or the chance to rebuild what was lost? I know I'd want a chance to rebuild what was taken. A chance to do that is far more than we have right now.

And again. over the course of several threads I have not seen ONE person say they would rather NOT have the game back..

So there is no need to use words like ungrateful, schmuck.. questions peoples love for the game.. question how they choose to play.. etc etc..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 09, 2014, 04:12:13 AM
Of course it's not going to be a deal breaker if we don't get the game account data or the character data. The thing is though, if the buyer team can show NCsoft that there's a really high desire from the players to get it back, then that makes it more valuable. Which means that there's a better chance they'll make sure it's on the table, so they can get a better price. It also means that if they can't or won't provide it, the overall package has less value, and the more they'll have to concede - either in added assets or lowered price - to ensure the deal goes through at a profit.

Bottom line is, the happier we would be to get it, the more they can charge, and therefore the harder they'll try to make sure it happens. But if our reaction to their overall offer would be more like "yeah that's fine too I guess," then they have to settle for a lower price.

That's the way I understand it, at least. I've been trying to follow the conversation but I'm no expert or anything.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 09, 2014, 04:17:34 AM
And again. over the course of several threads I have not seen ONE person say they would rather NOT have the game back..

So there is no need to use words like ungrateful, schmuck.. questions peoples love for the game.. question how they choose to play.. etc etc..

You are correct Heatstroke. There is nothing to gain n badmouthing fellow players who have a different viewpoint, especially when it really isn't that different from your own. We all want the game back. That's first and everything else is second. Also, until it  gets announced we don't know for sure what's possible and what's not. It's premature to say whether anything is a deal breaker for any individual or not. We don't know enough.

I guess from my point of view it is the same now as it was then. I had a full time job, I had housework, lots of hobbies and City of Heroes. So for me it's pretty much the same.

The good news is that you can have fun even if you don't have time to do everything in the game you like. There were tons of things I would like to have done in CoH, but I had blast doing the things I could. You will too, even if we don't get our characters back. Maybe not as quick, but you will.

I had like 8 fully decked out bases, complete with everything, all individual designed by me. I had one set up as a museum with a complete set of base salvage. Bases are such a PITA that I haven't even considered getting them back. I must have had easy 100 hours in them.

So maybe I'll only do a few, but they'll be awesome!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kyriani on July 09, 2014, 04:34:13 AM
So anyone who wants their character data back is ungrateful and a schmuck..

Never said that. But if you say you love COH and then say you won't support the return of the game without your character data then YES MY OPINION IS THAT YOU'RE A SCHMUCK. Am I schmuck too for having that opinion... I can't in good conscience say I'm not. We can be schmucks together for different reasons.

Quote
You have a right to your opinion and they have a right to not play if thats THEIR choice. That doesnt mean they dont care. Its just that they have a different value system and requirement to play than you do.

I can't force people to play. I can't force them to support the game. But I can hold the opinion that if you claim to love the game but won't support its return solely due to your character data being irrecoverable then you didn't love the game as much as you claimed.

Quote
REALLY... you've accounted for how many peoples lives have changed over the ten years since the inception of the game and have decided that if they do not invest the time that they did previously or are able to invest that time that you are able to invest is not TRULY a fan.. gotcha. Forget those people who have new careers and obligations and possible even new spouses and family.. if you were TRULY a fan you would make time to get back into the game..

You completely took this comment out of context. Allow me to quote the whole part you nabbed that tidbit from:

         
I'd like to see a limited time launch special "starter pack" for a nominal fee (50$ wouldn't be too much to ask IMO) that basically gives you maxed vet rewards and all the "buyable/nonconsumable" content that existed at the point of shutdown. This would allow vets of the game to come back and have their basic status and previous purchases essentially restored. We'd have all the base elements to work with that we had before the shutdown to rebuild what was lost. Have this limited time special starter pack available for a month or so. Anyone who is truly a fan of COH still will have plenty of time to get back into the game with that special starter pack.

CONTEXT! That sentence you PARTIALLY quoted was in reference to people having enough time to take advantage of that hypothetical "special starter pack" I was talking about. You took a piece of a sentence and turned it into something entirely different from its meaning.

For me this is a truly silly argument.. there are many people who have the time and the ability to get to level 50 within hours.. let alone days and weeks.. the equal footing argument is silly..

Either everyone starts fresh or everyone starts with all they had. Can't have it piecemeal. I WANT my data back don't get me wrong. But I won't let the lack of data stop me from supporting the game.
 
Quote
All you people hanging out in Pocket D.. your not PLAYING.. hey.. all you people hanging out talking under Atlas.. Your not PLAYING.. Stop running that costume contest.. thats not PLAYING.. or should people just play according to YOUR definition of what is playing.. so if character data was available. and people got back everything they wanted.. they arent PLAYERS apparently.. got it.. and not only that.. not only are they not players.. They dont CARE.. ok.. got it..

Where this comes from I'll never know. I did not say anything in reference to HOW people play the game. If you're in Pocket D you're obviously playing IMO. Which means you're supporting the game. Which means you care. Your little tangent here makes no sense at all whatsoever in regards to my post.


Quote
By your definition probably not..

Yup you're right. If the sole factor preventing you from supporting the return of the game is whether or not the character data is recoverable then yes by MY definition you don't love the game as much as you might claim to. Cause if you did... you'd do everything you could to get it back data be damned. But see you don't fit my definition. The end of this heavily quoted wall of text proves that. At the end of the day you're still willing to play and spend with or without the data. Maybe not as much as before but you'd support. So by my definition you love the game.
 
 
Quote
and if they choose not to.. thats THEIR choice.. and they have every right to do so..

Never said otherwise. But I can still hold the opinion people are schmucks if they spend hours wailing on these forums about missing the game... and then someone comes along making titanic efforts/spending tons of money to give the game back to them but couldn't recover the account/character data and they snub it. Its like claiming your dying of thirst and someone offers you a glass of water from the tap and you slap it away because its not bottled.
 

Quote
I think its been said repeatedly on this thread and others.. CONSISTENTLY.. that the most important thing is getting the game back. but if at all possible people would like their data..

I never argued that. I WANT that. But IF the data is not recoverable I'd still support the game and I personally feel anyone on this forum claiming they love and miss the game should do the same data or not.

 
 
Quote
How did you even remotely draw a conclusion to lack of funding when we are not being asked to fund anything ??

Let's say this deal goes through and the servers are back up... Do you think they will be free? Do you think you'll just have everything for nothing and be able to play without spending a penny ever again? Be realistic. Even in maintenance mode it costs money to host an MMO. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things mind you but it does require SOMETHING. They will need to have some sort of positive income to keep maintenance mode going. Even if they just have it exactly as it was with Freedom: you can sub, or play and buy stuff a la carte, etc. They generate some income and would very likely NEED to just to keep the lights on if nothing else. Us old timers need to support the effort and let these new devs know that we've got their back and that their investment is not going to just be a money pit draining them dry. If we don't support them then maintenance mode won't last and we're back where we started with nothing.


Quote
  The few people (and for the record I havent seen any) who might choose not to play will have no ultimate bearing on the game because the number of people who choose to play will FAR outnumber them..


I'm hopeful that you're right. All I'm saying, is that if you're here on this forum wailing about how much you miss the game... and it comes back... but you dont support it just because your character data was irrecoverable... then well, you're a schmuck. But hey those people don't know me from Joe Shmoe... what does my opinion matter to them?


Quote
   Lets be clear about something as well. The efforts of everyone involved have been applauded consistently.. but lets not think that this is completely altruistic.. Investors invest for one reason and one reason only.. They can make money.. So while restoring the game if successful is admirable and should be celebrated.. Its also a business..  and if you are investing in a business you should know your clientele.. You should know their expectations and demands.. you wont be able to satisfy them all.. but you SHOULD be aware of them...

I don't have any argument with this. But since you're obviously aware that this isn't an entirely altruistic effort, then why did you bring up funding before? You obviously know they want/need to make money... if everyone held to the mindset of not supporting without the character data then there might be no money incoming if the data isn't recoverable. You are commenting from a point of view where you think I don't want the data or that I think the data shouldn't be attempted to be recovered. I can assure you this isn't the case at all. I'd want every effort made for the data. BUT the lack of data would not dissuade me from supporting the game's return nor do I think it should be the sole factor to dissuade anyone on this forum who swears they love the game.

 
 
Quote
I could give you a whole list of reasons.. many of which wont meet your standard of approval..

  1) I dont have the time I had TEN YEARS AGO.. my life has changed dramatically and there are more things that demand my time and attention.. the chief of them being my FOUR YEAR OLD son..

  2) After 8 years of playing I have done the level things.. a great many times.. I dont find the leveling path extremely entertaining anymore.. personally I would rather start every character at Level 35.. I find that part of the game the most intersting..

  3) I dont want to sink the time and effort in AGAIN.. whats the long term plan for this venture ?? just 18 months ago it was.. Play for free FOREVER.. expect FOREVER was only 18 months..

  4) I enjoy the latter part of the game more than the early part.. but I guess in your opinion thats not playing..

  5) I enjoyed builds at the point of shutdown.. I dont have the inclination, the time, or the energy to REINVEST another 8 years..

 Now that being said.. If there were no character data.. I would play.. as much as I did before.. probably not.. would i spend the money I did before ( and I spent THOUSANDS playing this game ).. probably not..

 DO I want the game back... absolutely..

 What I have come to resent is exactly the picture your first post stated.. and mindset that places an erroneous label on people that is divisive and unfair..

There's a reason I have repeatedly used the word "solely" throughout my replies to your various quotes. It's because I realize times change, people change and we're all not where we were a decade ago. There's lots of valid reasons for not being able or willing to support the return of COH. I just don't think lack of character data should be the one and only thing to do it.

But see your final quote shows you DO love the game. You said it yourself you'll play it even without the character data. Maybe not as much as you did before... maybe you wont spend as much as you once did... but you're willing to support the game data or not and THAT PROVES you love the damn game! :D

I don't get why you made so many assumptions about what I consider "playing" the game. I dont give a flying fart in space how anyone specifically enjoyed playing COH. We all played and enjoyed it in our own ways and that's great, more power to us all. I dont look down on anyone's particular enjoyment of the game. This isn't about what style of play anyone has. You and I aren't really on different pages here. We both WANT the data restored. We both WILL PLAY with or without that data though. Maybe you thought I was saying the data shouldn't be restored? I wasn't. But I am saying that free 50's or letting people have sentinel characters added to the database is a huge mistake for balance reasons. Either everyone is restored or everyone starts fresh. Half measures only hurt the game as a whole.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ohioknight on July 09, 2014, 04:34:21 AM
Dont foget the DEVELOPER PACK:  you would have to be a true dev to have any more constructive powah!  Extra AE Mission slots, larger bases with more storage, even your toon gets bigger pockets for up to 100 enhancements more storage at the vaults in the city.  Buy and sell like the biggest fish with more inventory at Wentworths and the consignment house plus more room for salvage.  Not sold yet?  We'll throw in a personal Crafting table so you can make what you want whereever you are (not up as often as field crafter table).  $29.99

Someone remind me:  did we have the ability to open up a auction house and AE dialogue on the fly?  I thought we did as a tiered badge for selling/buying.  Could put that in too.

Then buy them all for $159.99 (All packs including mine and Codewalker's)
Offer hard merchandice like copies of the game, back issues of comics, official registered hero and villian cards - especially if things like lifetime subs are offered

Where do I send my money
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 09, 2014, 04:41:07 AM
Dont foget the DEVELOPER PACK:  you would have to be a true dev to have any more constructive powah!  Extra AE Mission slots, larger bases with more storage, even your toon gets bigger pockets for up to 100 enhancements more storage at the vaults in the city.  Buy and sell like the biggest fish with more inventory at Wentworths and the consignment house plus more room for salvage.  Not sold yet?  We'll throw in a personal Crafting table so you can make what you want whereever you are (not up as often as field crafter table).  $29.99
I think that's a horrible idea!  We had folks who could rule the market already, I don't think it's a good idea to make it even easier for them to do MORE.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 09, 2014, 04:49:10 AM
I think that's a horrible idea!  We had folks who could rule the market already, I don't think it's a good idea to make it even easier for them to do MORE.

Don't worry. We'll have all that stuff in a month with the vet rewards and the demand for crafted I/O's will be immense. Getting field crafter will actually make money instead of cost money. I did this about 5 times and never made money with it crafting all those IO's. Came close once though. I was more patient then.

I doubt the enhancement tray thing can happen. At close you could get extra trays but no where near 100 so that would be new.

The storage for the vault and inventory was available on the market. It was handy, but a full blown base is better!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on July 09, 2014, 04:55:53 AM
I have been giving considerable thought to this topic, and have bounced some ideas off other former players as far as the return goes.

These ideas are acting under the assumption that character/account data will not be available, and our new Freedom Phalanx secure a launchable version of i24, with all the trimming leading up to it (The Paragon Market and all related systems).

Bear in mind that no matter how noble it may seem, bargaining for customer's account and character data is essentially one company SELLING PERSONAL INFORMATION to a third party. I would be flabbergasted if it all goes through that way.

NONETHELESS! When (if) the game is revived from these efforts, whether or not they are to continue development on the current incarnation, or begin development on a "CoH II" a hybrid Free-to-Play/subscription model should be kept in place. This will become clear as I detail the rest.

Upon launch, MUCH FANFARE! EVENTS! FUN! CITY OF HEROES IS BACK WOOOOOOO!!

Free to play will remain as is, as will the perks associated with Premium Accounts of yore. Subscription model will follow 14.99/month with discounts for bulk purchasing (buy more time and SAVE!) but instead of the 400 Paragon Points (hereafter known as PP), supply 800PP with each recurring month subscription. This will encourage people to subscribe, while also allowing people to pick up on the backlog of shinies or gather other perks.

Now I hear you say: "But Ouul? What about all my STUFF!?!"

Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?
where do I insert my cc? :D awesome idea, I would add a character slot pack 12 character slots for $20.00
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Myrmydon on July 09, 2014, 05:52:39 AM
I've noticed some B.O.S.S. folks here. I was a member for about a year, but then went on to another (east coast) server and started a low-pressure group of my own. Do you feel like leading again?

That's something we can look at once we see a "We're back!" announcement.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 09, 2014, 06:48:51 AM
Umm, Devil?

I was specifically referring to the extra Market transaction slots combined with the extra storage that would then be available above and beyond the purchasable slots.

I never really saw the Crafting Table as a money making tool, I suppose it'd cut down on travel for marketeers, but that could be earned anyway.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: PsychicKitty on July 09, 2014, 08:16:59 AM
I think you should offer packs, starter packs at differing values...maybe the same way RIFT does it.

To answer a question to another posting person....yes we could access the auction house and things remotely....it was a perk for the veteran rewards.

If you are going to control the game more...you need to do a few things....like you need to no longer give exp in the player created missions....instead you simply need to stay with the tickets....the tickets should buy what they used to....but should no longer be able to purchase enhancements or inspirations.

The next thing you need to do...is make it so if a mission or something is repeated multiple times in 12 hour period it should give diminished rewards...like after the 2nd time it should no longer give exp until 12 hours happens.

You should also make contact not sell enhancements...let them buy things....but they should never sell them...if they sell them they should only be specific ones and they should be special...like the low level yins market origins.  It always bugged me that my contacts gave me not much in their stores....but I would have tried to find them all and gotten my reputation up if it meant by getting the top reputation I could buy a specific special origin form them.

Leave the enhancements for the actual stores you have all over the city.

Another thing...their was always the three levels of origins that bothered me.  because it seamed like once you got to a high level you shouldn't bother with the training origins....so if you are going to do this game....I highly suggest you simply make all the regular origins get he same stats...with the difference being that if you are within certain level ranges those origins give you a bonus like 10%...so training would be for 1 to 20...the next ones would be 21 to 40 and the last ones would be for 41 to maximum level.

If you are going cash shop only....and want to make some bank....you need to redo the exp amounts per level too....like make the amounts greater...like double needed each level you go up.....that way you can conceivably get people to buy exp bonus items in the cash shop.

and no....do not sell automatic level 50 upgrades....don't even think about it....because you will simply have people who buy them and then constantly whine there is no content and ask dumb question like where they can find hellions of skulls.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: steveharp on July 09, 2014, 08:48:20 AM
I have been giving considerable thought to this topic, and have bounced some ideas off other former players as far as the return goes.

These ideas are acting under the assumption that character/account data will not be available, and our new Freedom Phalanx secure a launchable version of i24, with all the trimming leading up to it (The Paragon Market and all related systems).

Bear in mind that no matter how noble it may seem, bargaining for customer's account and character data is essentially one company SELLING PERSONAL INFORMATION to a third party. I would be flabbergasted if it all goes through that way.

NONETHELESS! When (if) the game is revived from these efforts, whether or not they are to continue development on the current incarnation, or begin development on a "CoH II" a hybrid Free-to-Play/subscription model should be kept in place. This will become clear as I detail the rest.

Upon launch, MUCH FANFARE! EVENTS! FUN! CITY OF HEROES IS BACK WOOOOOOO!!

Free to play will remain as is, as will the perks associated with Premium Accounts of yore. Subscription model will follow 14.99/month with discounts for bulk purchasing (buy more time and SAVE!) but instead of the 400 Paragon Points (hereafter known as PP), supply 800PP with each recurring month subscription. This will encourage people to subscribe, while also allowing people to pick up on the backlog of shinies or gather other perks.

Now I hear you say: "But Ouul? What about all my STUFF!?!"

Now, again acting under the assumption that it is gone, poof, out to pasture, it would be of great disservice to our long term veterans to have them start again from ABSOLUTE scratch, so I propose bundles and packs at a reasonable price to assist! These packs should encourage early adoption, and be available for only a short time after the re-launch (60-90 days) and then again during event weekends and as special promotions.

VETERANS PACK: $49.99 - Return to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles in style! This pack will bestow upon you enough Veteran Rewards Tokens to pin your way to the top! This will allow you to unlock all veterans rewards, plus the limited time costumes at the top tier!

BOOSTER PACK BUNDLE!: 49.99 - INCREDIBLE VALUE! This pack includes all the booster packs released, from the 5 origin packs through Valentine's, Pocket D VIP, Wedding, Mac Edition, Going Rogue Bonus Items, Origins, Steampunk, Party, and Animal Pack!

DELUXE EDITION BUNDLE: 9.99 - This pack includes the items from the CoH AND CoV deluxe collector's editions

And to help with levelling one's characters back to their prime:

CHARACTER BOOST BUNDLE: 4.99 each - This will come with XP Boosters, Team/Dual inspirations, and a 30 day temporary JetPack

Once again, this is just speculation and brainspewing to provide some ideas to go off. What do people think?


This !!!

I would buy all of those
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ouul on July 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM
I think you should offer packs, starter packs at differing values...maybe the same way RIFT does it.

To answer a question to another posting person....yes we could access the auction house and things remotely....it was a perk for the veteran rewards.

If you are going to control the game more...you need to do a few things....like you need to no longer give exp in the player created missions....instead you simply need to stay with the tickets....the tickets should buy what they used to....but should no longer be able to purchase enhancements or inspirations.

The next thing you need to do...is make it so if a mission or something is repeated multiple times in 12 hour period it should give diminished rewards...like after the 2nd time it should no longer give exp until 12 hours happens.

You should also make contact not sell enhancements...let them buy things....but they should never sell them...if they sell them they should only be specific ones and they should be special...like the low level yins market origins.  It always bugged me that my contacts gave me not much in their stores....but I would have tried to find them all and gotten my reputation up if it meant by getting the top reputation I could buy a specific special origin form them.

Leave the enhancements for the actual stores you have all over the city.

Another thing...their was always the three levels of origins that bothered me.  because it seamed like once you got to a high level you shouldn't bother with the training origins....so if you are going to do this game....I highly suggest you simply make all the regular origins get he same stats...with the difference being that if you are within certain level ranges those origins give you a bonus like 10%...so training would be for 1 to 20...the next ones would be 21 to 40 and the last ones would be for 41 to maximum level.

If you are going cash shop only....and want to make some bank....you need to redo the exp amounts per level too....like make the amounts greater...like double needed each level you go up.....that way you can conceivably get people to buy exp bonus items in the cash shop.

and no....do not sell automatic level 50 upgrades....don't even think about it....because you will simply have people who buy them and then constantly whine there is no content and ask dumb question like where they can find hellions of skulls.

This thread is talking about ways to lessen the blow of starting again in case we are unable to recover character data. Your strongly worded suggestions are probably best in a suggestions thread. The way enhancements are structured in the game have been done so for a reason, and missions in general are not repeatable without certain caveats or conditions being met. This game is for the enjoyment of all, please do not feel that the whole thing should be changed just to suit your own perspective.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kaderie on July 09, 2014, 09:42:42 AM
So I posted this suggestion over in the "New Efforts" thread, but the conversation there moves way too swiftly and I see now that it belongs more here anyway :P So, with apologies for the respost:

I had close to a dozen 50s, all incarnated and hours upon hours spent on perfecting their builds, which included purples and PvP IOs. I'd be lying if I said that losing them doesn't make me a little sad, but it turns out I'm actually quite giddy with excitement, too, to recreate them. Better. Stronger. Faster. *laughs* A clean slate means I might actually snag some better names for them, too.

But I do sympathize with those who are demotivated by the thought of not getting their characters. So I have an idea, a sort of compromise regarding the use of Sentinel files. Now, I believe that using the sentinel files would be bad form, because a lot of the community either did not know about it, were locked out of certain characters due to subscription issues and thus couldn't access them to snapshot them, or just plain lost the files in the two years that have passed. Giving some people their characters back, but not others, leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.

So I propose the following:

Everyone who subscribes in the first month of launch can submit a mids build and create a fully slotted Level 50 character.

Only one per account.

Now I know what you're thinking. "But Kaderie, people will give themselves fully purpled out characters!" And to that I say, yes, they will. And? Consider it a 'Welcome home' gift from the new devs, as well as a form of compensation for the many alts lost. These will still have to be re-leveled and reslotted. For many such as myself it will still be an overall loss, since I had many purple'd characters, and if someone, somewhere might be slightly better off than they were before, well, what's the harm in that? Everyone still starts out on equal footing, and it will significantly take the sting off for the people in this thread who really can't stand losing their 50s.

Now, it could be possible to create multiple accounts to get that level 50 multiple times and strip them of valuables to sell. That's why I recommend locking it behind a pay wall, ie, subscription or perhaps something more pricey (3-month sub, maybe), and to have it be a limited time offer, let's say, the first month after launch. If someone wants to pay for the privilege of increasing the supply of purples/PVP IOs in the game (which will likely be severely lacking for a number of months), well, I actually consider that a win for the game's economy. 'sides, it's not like IOs weren't already for sale in the cash shop anyway, and getting rich in the game is not hard :P

Thoughts?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eskreema on July 09, 2014, 01:00:05 PM

I doubt the enhancement tray thing can happen. At close you could get extra trays but no where near 100 so that would be new.

I thought I had 10 trays at the end = 100 enh.  Ok, leave out the new work bench and just have field crafter.  The rest was easily attainable.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Biowraith on July 09, 2014, 01:33:34 PM
Thought I'd sign up (I just heard the news - thanks PsychicKitty) to say +1 to Ouul's suggestion. 

Although I did have numerous 50s I don't really care about having to re-level characters as I enjoy leveling characters in CoH.  I will be a bit miffed if I can't get certain old character names, but I guess that's inevitable. 

However, I'd very much miss all the vet rewards, VIP rewards, and booster packs were I to have to re-level without them, so I'm in favour of any suggestions that let me get those back at a reasonable price.  Ouul's seems to cover that nicely.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 09, 2014, 02:03:43 PM
I think you should offer packs, starter packs at differing values...maybe the same way RIFT does it.

To answer a question to another posting person....yes we could access the auction house and things remotely....it was a perk for the veteran rewards.

If you are going to control the game more...you need to do a few things....like you need to no longer give exp in the player created missions....instead you simply need to stay with the tickets....the tickets should buy what they used to....but should no longer be able to purchase enhancements or inspirations.

The next thing you need to do...is make it so if a mission or something is repeated multiple times in 12 hour period it should give diminished rewards...like after the 2nd time it should no longer give exp until 12 hours happens.

You should also make contact not sell enhancements...let them buy things....but they should never sell them...if they sell them they should only be specific ones and they should be special...like the low level yins market origins.  It always bugged me that my contacts gave me not much in their stores....but I would have tried to find them all and gotten my reputation up if it meant by getting the top reputation I could buy a specific special origin form them.

Leave the enhancements for the actual stores you have all over the city.

Another thing...their was always the three levels of origins that bothered me.  because it seamed like once you got to a high level you shouldn't bother with the training origins....so if you are going to do this game....I highly suggest you simply make all the regular origins get he same stats...with the difference being that if you are within certain level ranges those origins give you a bonus like 10%...so training would be for 1 to 20...the next ones would be 21 to 40 and the last ones would be for 41 to maximum level.

If you are going cash shop only....and want to make some bank....you need to redo the exp amounts per level too....like make the amounts greater...like double needed each level you go up.....that way you can conceivably get people to buy exp bonus items in the cash shop.

and no....do not sell automatic level 50 upgrades....don't even think about it....because you will simply have people who buy them and then constantly whine there is no content and ask dumb question like where they can find hellions of skulls.
Most of that sounds like it would make the game more tedious and definitely harder to get back the characters we had before if we lose them.   I mean...your suggestions would kill the farm maps and make it a longer trip to lvl 50.   Yucky!

I heard claims that there were players like the ones in your last sentence, but never actually encountered them in game.  I played on Freedom too.   So I'm not convinced those players really existed.   I really don't know where you would go in the game to hear anyone complaining "there is no content".    I mean...I was busy playing the content...so if they were there, they were too busy playing with me to whine about it.    8)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 09, 2014, 02:05:47 PM
So I posted this suggestion over in the "New Efforts" thread, but the conversation there moves way too swiftly and I see now that it belongs more here anyway :P So, with apologies for the respost:
I like it.   Would definitely soften the blow if we lose our characters.   I had two accounts too, so right away I would get a portion of that nice "options" feeling at login that I enjoyed so much.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: admiralxp on July 09, 2014, 03:12:18 PM
Not sure if this has been suggested yet, don't have time to read through the 12+ pages in this thread. My idea is to possibly hand out 'head-start' codes for the former players to get started playing the game early and build up the community a bit before it gets released to the public again. This will also allow the former players to recreate any characters they wish too without as much concern there name will be stolen.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 09, 2014, 03:37:09 PM
Umm, Devil?

I was specifically referring to the extra Market transaction slots combined with the extra storage that would then be available above and beyond the purchasable slots.

I never really saw the Crafting Table as a money making tool, I suppose it'd cut down on travel for marketeers, but that could be earned anyway.

Oh yeah.

Well, Since We'll need to flip salvage to start we'll open some extra market slots there, but as you say those are earned based on a number of transaction. Doing field crafter actually increases recipe storage and inventory storage, but only for that character. But yeah, especially if it was account wide, I could see it really empowering the marketeers.

But honestly, I probably wouldn't buy that one. Almost everything in there is earnable in game and to me, that was part of the deal. You want to be ebill? Well, you got some work to do!

Feildcrafter wasn't as useful as you many think. It was cool to be able to summon it but mainly because it was difficult to get and most people didn't bother with it. The real reason to do it, pre paragon market, was the additional recipe and inventory storage. That was tasty.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Brightfires on July 09, 2014, 09:06:07 PM
I don't mind having to do Fieldcrafter again, honestly... Then again, Palrah (my badge-collector tank and blue-side Main), was the only member of my crew who ever had it, so it's not like I'd be doing it a dozen times. I wouldn't mind having to re-do any of the badges or Accolades, really.

That said, there is one thing that I absolutely must have on day one... And I do mean MUST, here. This one detail will, in complete and total honesty, be the biggest thing that makes the difference between me being all gung-ho "Okay, let's do this thing!" and my having a much less enthusiastic "Eh. Maybe I'll rebuild Nemissary or something" reaction to a relaunch.

I have to have Kestrel & Company's angel wings back.

Those things were originally a twelve month vet reward, but they were essential to the vast majority of my favorite characters. I didn't call the crew "bird things" for nothing. If there isn't a way, at launch, for the new versions of those characters to have their wings, I just won't rebuild them at all. Having them look like they ought to means that much to me, even though NOT having them  would sap a great deal of the potential enjoyment of having the game back right out. Sure, I had a few human toons I could rebuild. One of them (my crazy Death Mage dark defender-) was even a favorite... But without Kestrel, Palrah, Summer and Shade, it just wouldn't be the same.  :-[

So... yeah. I definitely vote for there to be some way to get our vet rewards back. I don't care so much about Pally's badges, or the Elysion base, or the crew's Incarnate powers or even Kestrel's absolutely obscene enhancements. I acquired all of that for them once, I can do it again. But there are some things about my characters that just made them "them" and any reincarnation has to have them. It may seem silly to get that hung up on a cosmetic detail... But being silly doesn't make my feeling about it any less strong. Asking me to rebuild Kes without her wings would be like asking me to rebuild her without Cardinal. I can't do it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 09, 2014, 10:08:12 PM
I had a full set of base salvage. I'd hate to lose that since there is no way to get that back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 10, 2014, 12:39:20 AM
"It's a trident, not a pitchfork!"

Sugarless gum.  Bleh.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on July 10, 2014, 01:38:43 AM
I tried my NCSoft account.  I was able to get in and was prompted to set challenge questions.  After that, I got red box telling me there were no games associated with my account.  Later, I got an e-mail from NCSoft telling me that someone (me) had setup the challenge questions.

So, they still have some of my data and I still remember my username/password.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Remaugen on July 10, 2014, 02:32:58 AM
I really want my character data, there simply has to be a way to access and include that. I invested a lot of time and effort into my 50s, they may not be perfect, but they are mine and I want them back.

Barring that, I am willing to start over, but only if there is no other choice.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eskreema on July 10, 2014, 04:05:54 AM
Inflamatory question warning:  would you be against a vet power that would make all badges (and the associated powers etc), earned or granted, *GLOBAL TO CHARACTERS*?  What about the ability to purchase that function, i.e. Lifetime sub perk?

I would love all my toons back and this thread would be a non-issue, but i am willing to give the new devs hard earned money (define that as u will) to get myself back up to speed faster as long as it would not cap me otherwise.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 10, 2014, 04:12:28 AM
Inflamatory question warning:  would you be against a vet power that would make all badges (and the associated powers etc), earned or granted, *GLOBAL TO CHARACTERS*?  What about the ability to purchase that function, i.e. Lifetime sub perk?

For my part, I would oppose this.  It makes badges meanless and valueless.  Powers... That's another thing.

Just my 2 influence.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 04:17:26 AM
Inflamatory question warning:  would you be against a vet power that would make all badges (and the associated powers etc), earned or granted, *GLOBAL TO CHARACTERS*?  What about the ability to purchase that function, i.e. Lifetime sub perk?

Ugh. Yes. It would make badging totally pointless and associated accolades which are mostly awarded by completing sets of badges a meaningless accomplishment. It would remove all savor from the challenge. I would never bother to badge again.

It would also make bases ridiculously easy to outfit as you would have all the the explore badges that grant the teleport beacons OR or impossible because you weren't in SG mode when you received them.

I certainly don't speak for everyone or even all badgers, but no, please don't do this.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 04:22:10 AM
For my part, I would oppose this.  It makes badges meanless and valueless.  Powers... That's another thing.

Just my 2 influence.

The accolade powers are based on completion of the badges, unless you make them completely seperate, there is no other way to award them. If you do, some content will never be run again. Who would run Synapse if they didn't need it for Freedom Phalanx accolade.

Katie Hannon only gets run now really for Geas of the Kindly Ones.

What about Master of badges? You certainly aren't master of anything except spending money. Bad idea. How would someone who got master of Statesman by meeting the requirements measure up against someone who bought it?

Just no.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Triplash on July 10, 2014, 04:29:56 AM
Inflamatory question warning:  would you be against a vet power that would make all badges (and the associated powers etc), earned or granted, *GLOBAL TO CHARACTERS*?  What about the ability to purchase that function, i.e. Lifetime sub perk?

ALL badges? That I'd be against. But if it were just for time-limited things like anniversaries or holiday events, that I could get behind. Mind you, just the ones that are purely for logging in. If the character has to DO something to get it, it should stay as is.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eskreema on July 10, 2014, 04:30:52 AM
Maybe some confusion:  have to earn it at least once (some toons better than others in some cases) before it is granted account-wise.  Goddangit got it - it more a powers/abilities question for me than skill/bragging (master's badges).
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Goddangit on July 10, 2014, 04:32:28 AM
Maybe some confusion:  have to earn it at least once (some toons better in some than others in some cases) before it is granted account-wise.

No.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Skull Thuggery on July 10, 2014, 04:44:30 AM
The accolade powers are based on completion of the badges, unless you make them completely seperate, there is no other way to award them. If you do, some content will never be run again. Who would run Synapse if they didn't need it for Freedom Phalanx accolade.

Katie Hannon only gets run now really for Geas of the Kindly Ones.

What about Master of badges? You certainly aren't master of anything except spending money. Bad idea. How would someone who got master of Statesman by meeting the requirements measure up against someone who bought it?

Just no.

I ran all of those TFs just for fun.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 05:02:44 AM
I ran all of those TFs just for fun.

I would as well but for some, I don't think they bother. Synapse is not very popular.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Anima on July 10, 2014, 05:36:55 AM
Inflamatory question warning:  would you be against a vet power that would make all badges (and the associated powers etc), earned or granted, *GLOBAL TO CHARACTERS*?  What about the ability to purchase that function, i.e. Lifetime sub perk?

I would love all my toons back and this thread would be a non-issue, but i am willing to give the new devs hard earned money (define that as u will) to get myself back up to speed faster as long as it would not cap me otherwise.

Well, I agree with peeps about how this would make a large number of badges pointless, though I do think there is maybe one category of badges I'd be ok with this for. Exploration. Just exploration badges. Because running around to points where you've already been five thousand times is kinda annoying. But for every other kind of badge, I would be opposed to this idea.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on July 10, 2014, 06:24:25 AM

It would also make bases ridiculously easy to outfit as you would have all the the explore badges that grant the teleport beacons OR or impossible because you weren't in SG mode when you received them.


It's not impossible to get the explore badges for the SG even if you have already got them for yourself.  You just have to go back to the badge location while in SG mode.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 06:38:35 AM
ALL badges? That I'd be against. But if it were just for time-limited things like anniversaries or holiday events, that I could get behind. Mind you, just the ones that are purely for logging in. If the character has to DO something to get it, it should stay as is.

I could live with this.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Remidi on July 10, 2014, 08:07:23 AM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but all these suggestions for packs ignore one big factor - The economy isn't what it was.  When I played CoH, I had a good job.  Right now I'm unemployed and applying for disability.  I'll have lots of time to play, at least when health allows, but I'll be broke.  I'm debating if I can afford the second account I had before, so spending hundreds of dollars on packs just isn't in the cards.  And I suspect I'm far from the only person in that boat.  I think the new owners would buy a lot of good will from the players by giving them the things that were already in the game.  There are plenty of new things that can be offered to generate revenue.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: jlbernardes on July 10, 2014, 03:46:28 PM
This is all just my personal opinion on what I would feel comfortable with. I'm well aware other people won't feel comfortable with the same things I do (some would want to get more/pay less, some the opposite), but I'm not writing this to start any arguments about it, just to hopefully throw another data point that might help the buyers should they succeed in buying.

I had all vet rewards and would like to get them back (at least the useful powers and the coolest costume pieces). I would even be willing to pay again for the priviledge, although not as much as they cost the first time (say, a package with them all for $25-$30, maybe even $40, I could easily part with, much more and I would start feeling bad about it). I would not mind terribly if I had to play without many of them either.

I had bought many (but not all) of the packs with costume pieces (including those useful powers like ninja run). Again, I would like to get them back and wouldn't terribly mind paying a reasonable price for a package with most of them again, where a reasonably price means lower than I paid the first time (I'm thinking maybe the same $25 to $40 dollars tops for that). Some characters NEEDED some of those costume pieces to exist (my lion-headed, armored, titan weapons tanker for instance).

I had bought every powerset that had been released, and many of them I had not even had a chance to try yet. This would be the MOST important part for me (since many of my characters used the paid for powersets and many of the characters I had planned to play with in the future would use them). Again, I would pay for that (even before I paid for the others), but bear in mind that this is the THIRD item we're talking about that could cost $25-$40, so we're talking a total of $75-$120 here, which is not pocket change. The total of $75 for everything I had before I could see myself spending with a bit of trepidation, but mostly as something useful that would also be a show of support for the buyers. The total of $120 increases my trepidation a lot, and decreases the likelyhood I'd buy them (although, of course, they could have the individual packs be more expensive, and launch an everything pack at a discount I guess).

I never stopped paying a sub for the game and don't foresee I would stop if the game came back, so I, personally, would not mind not having those rewards that improved my non-sub-paying experience. If the sub managed to include access to those things I talked about before without me having to throw money at them (powersets, vet rewards, costume piece/power packs) I'd be very, very happy. If I paying the sub at least allowed me to get them at a discounted price, I'd be happy too.

It would be great getting the character data back, but I, personally, would still gladly play the game even if that did not happen. What I liked most in CoH was making and levelling new characters. I had at least 2 whose level only had one digit when the game shut down that I wouldn't mind at all starting from scratch with, 2 or 3 more in their early twenties which I really wanted to play and who would take me only a few hours a piece to get back there, and at least 6 characters I had planned but never made. So I have aproximatelly 10 characters I would gladly start from scratch with that could keep me happy and busy for quite a while.

If we DO get character data back, I just hope we ALSO get a lot of total character slots (not necessarily slots per servers, but slots times servers), because I had 51 characters by the time the game closed (28 incarnates, 23 which I wanted to get there - some more, some less). Sure, I could certainly pick and choose only some of the incarnates I liked best and some of the most promissing lowbies, but it would be a bit painful. I had gotten some extra slots as vet rewards and from the store, but I'm not sure I would buy them again too soon even if, at first, we had few slots. I would pick a handful of incarnates/lowbies and leave some slots open for new characters and go from there.

I'd miss my old characters, sure, but I do have their Sentinel+ data, screenshots, demorecords, MIDS builds etc. saved to remember them by (some of it is in http://www.drgamma.co.nf/ )...

What would worry me most about getting the game back is the auction house. If we did not get character data back, I'd be poor again (and I hate playing market games to get rich soon again, not to mention all the other currencies my characters had). And if we DID get the characters back, people would have money to buy things at inflated prices, and there might be a lack of recipees (even common but wanted recipees like Thunderstrikes were hard to get back then, imagine now) and other stuff for builds. It would mess up my planned builds some, but I'd still love to have this problem to contend with. And, hopefully, drop rates could be messed with in the start if the market started being a problem...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 03:54:51 PM
For that matter you could even seed the market to jump start it. A fixed amount of inventory dumped on the market over the course of a few weeks. Yes, it would probably snapped up but if you stagger the additions you could make it harder. Plus even bids from marketeers will reduce the inf in the game.

Alos, add no crafted items. Just let people get the salvage, pay the crafting cost and place it up for sale. Don't forget that over the first few weeks, players will be adding their own recipes and salvage as well.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kaderie on July 10, 2014, 05:01:13 PM
The accolade powers are based on completion of the badges, unless you make them completely seperate, there is no other way to award them. If you do, some content will never be run again. Who would run Synapse if they didn't need it for Freedom Phalanx accolade.

And that would be bad because...?

Seriously, "players will no longer have to run content they hate" does not strike me as bad :/

Having to regrind the +HP/+Endurance badges was an incredible grind, over and over again, for every character, and especially punitive for PvPers, because they could not be competititve without them. I'd be down for making them a global achievement. In fact, I'd be down with making all powers-attached-to-achievements an account unlock, without locking it behind the paywall, and then offer additional unlocks on a per-badge basis. If someone wants to display their "Master of Statesman"-badge on their Level 1 toon... well, what's the harm in that, if they have done it another toon?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 10, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
But if it were just for time-limited things like anniversaries or holiday events, that I could get behind. Mind you, just the ones that are purely for logging in. If the character has to DO something to get it, it should stay as is.
I support these sort of badges being global by default.

All other badges have to be earned, and as few as possible have money transactions involved.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 05:32:24 PM
And that would be bad because...?

Seriously, "players will no longer have to run content they hate" does not strike me as bad :/

Having to regrind the +HP/+Endurance badges was an incredible grind, over and over again, for every character, and especially punitive for PvPers, because they could not be competititve without them. I'd be down for making them a global achievement. In fact, I'd be down with making all powers-attached-to-achievements an account unlock, without locking it behind the paywall, and then offer additional unlocks on a per-badge basis. If someone wants to display their "Master of Statesman"-badge on their Level 1 toon... well, what's the harm in that, if they have done it another toon?

Well, maybe we should just charge 200 dollars and let someone make an immediate level 50, with all badges and any I/O's they want. I don't like grinding so let's throw in incaranate powers as well with enough to salvage to pick whatever you like as well being inf capped. This is a logical extension if you want to make the game as easy and as pointless as possible.

I have no idea what would left for you to do, but there you go. Can't even hunt Giant monsters because already got the badges for it.

Seriously, this entire line of thought is a terrible idea and outside of getting us BACK to where we were, which is the point of this thread. We didn't have this when the came closed, why should we have it now? There is no mechanism in place for this so it would have to be coded and at this time there no development tools to use to code it. But this is very unlikely to occur so dream away. Why, because it disincentivises any reason to play the game for longer than a week. It cheapens any sense of accomplishment that you might get from succeeding in the game.

But to answer your question, it wouldn't bother me a bit because I wouldn't be playing any more. Because it won't be City of Heroes and that's what I want to play.

The ideas suggested were mainly to allow us to get back what we had when the game closed, not selling us "I Win".
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 10, 2014, 05:43:24 PM
Well, maybe we should just charge 200 dollars and let someone make an immediate level 50, with all badges and any I/O's they want. I don't like grinding so let's throw in incaranate powers as well with enough to salvage to pick whatever you like as well being inf capped. This is a logical extension if you want to make the game as easy and as pointless as possible.
...
The ideas suggested were mainly to allow us to get back what we had when the game closed, not selling us "I Win".

As far as PvP is concerned, granting leveled characters to someone who has leveled up a character or two is not unprecedented. I didn't play it past the intro area, but it's my understanding that Guild Wars did that - once you get a leveled up level 20 (or whatever it was), you can unlock a PvP level 20 without leveling it up. I don't think you were granted the best gear, necessarily, but for people that enjoyed PvP more than grinding up to max level, that would be a pretty big thing.

Obviously the situation is different in CoH, but I don't really have a huge issue with someone leveling up a character to 50, and then being granted a higher starting level for one other character.

I support these sort of badges being global by default.

All other badges have to be earned, and as few as possible have money transactions involved.

I agree - I have alt-itis, and play pretty casually, so I ended up with just my main character being the keeper of my holiday badges. However, I wouldn't be averse to getting some sort of benefit on all characters if I use just one to grind out killing tens of thousands of Rikti monkeys (for example). Things like that can be tedious to do over and over again.

Did any badge ever have money associated with it? Other than buying the collector's edition?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kaderie on July 10, 2014, 05:56:07 PM
Well, maybe we should just charge 200 dollars and let someone make an immediate level 50, with all badges and any I/O's they want. I don't like grinding so let's throw in incaranate powers as well with enough to salvage to pick whatever you like as well being inf capped. This is a logical extension if you want to make the game as easy and as pointless as possible.

I have no idea what would left for you to do, but there you go. Can't even hunt Giant monsters because already got the badges for it.

Wut

A global unlock =/= getting it handed to you for nothing. You still have to actually do it.

You know, I had almost all these things you describe there. Inf cap, accolades, incarnate powers, all the IOs. And yet, magically, I still played the game, and cared not one bit for badging. I made my own fun and challenges. Why, I even ran the ITF when I already had the badge for it! It's almost like CoH supports many different playstyles and goals!

Tell me, where is the "sense of accomplishment" of grinding out 200 Fake Nemesis? it's certainly not challenging to twoshot bosses several levels below you, only to wait for them to respawn. Over and over again. On dozens of toons.

Getting HP/End accolades was not playing the game. It was pointless busywork that, in the case of PvPers, prevented them from playing the game as they wanted to because it was the cost of entry for participation.

The only thing grinding out these accolades compares to in your poor slippery slope argument is the incarnate grind. And guess what? Lots of people complained about only being able to get incarnate powers via trials, so devs added the solo incarnate content. There is no alternate way to earn accolade powers, and once you've earned them a few times, it gets stale and boring as sin.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: energizingion on July 10, 2014, 06:05:28 PM
Wut

A global unlock =/= getting it handed to you for nothing. You still have to actually do it.

You know, I had almost all these things you describe there. Inf cap, accolades, incarnate powers, all the IOs. And yet, magically, I still played the game, and cared not one bit for badging. I made my own fun and challenges. Why, I even ran the ITF when I already had the badge for it! It's almost like CoH supports many different playstyles and goals!

Tell me, where is the "sense of accomplishment" of grinding out 200 Fake Nemesis? it's certainly not challenging to twoshot bosses several levels below you, only to wait for them to respawn. Over and over again. On dozens of toons.

Getting HP/End accolades was not playing the game. It was pointless busywork that, in the case of PvPers, prevented them from playing the game as they wanted to because it was the cost of entry for participation.

The only thing grinding out these accolades compares to in your poor slippery slope argument is the incarnate grind. And guess what? Lots of people complained about only being able to get incarnate powers via trials, so devs added the solo incarnate content. There is no alternate way to earn accolade powers, and once you've earned them a few times, it gets stale and boring as sin.

I haven't read all the posts but was going to say something about having a way to pay (or show from City Info Tracker) for all the badges/accolades on a certain character.  I had two "mains" getting all the badges that I could get with them.  Granted I really stopped doing it with my "main" villain but my "main" (Energizing Ion) had all the badges you get (with a char. that started as a hero and not a praetorian).  I would really not want to do the badge hunting thing again for all of those. :|  :(

Other thoughts:

*  Double or triple XP weeks (not just weekends :p)
*  Definitely some sort of 'pack' that you buy that can allow certain things (like access to everything (itrials, etc...) with different "levels" of what you get).

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 10, 2014, 06:15:47 PM
Did any badge ever have money associated with it? Other than buying the collector's edition?
Mostly just boxed edition based stuff if I recall: Pocket D VIP (GVE Edition), V.I.P / Destined One (COH Collectors Edition). And the Veteran badges of course but those are kind of a special case. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 06:26:52 PM
Wut

A global unlock =/= getting it handed to you for nothing. You still have to actually do it.

You know, I had almost all these things you describe there. Inf cap, accolades, incarnate powers, all the IOs. And yet, magically, I still played the game, and cared not one bit for badging. I made my own fun and challenges. Why, I even ran the ITF when I already had the badge for it! It's almost like CoH supports many different playstyles and goals!

Tell me, where is the "sense of accomplishment" of grinding out 200 Fake Nemesis? it's certainly not challenging to twoshot bosses several levels below you, only to wait for them to respawn. Over and over again. On dozens of toons.

Getting HP/End accolades was not playing the game. It was pointless busywork that, in the case of PvPers, prevented them from playing the game as they wanted to because it was the cost of entry for participation.

The only thing grinding out these accolades compares to in your poor slippery slope argument is the incarnate grind. And guess what? Lots of people complained about only being able to get incarnate powers via trials, so devs added the solo incarnate content. There is no alternate way to earn accolade powers, and once you've earned them a few times, it gets stale and boring as sin.

Then don't do them. No gun to your head saying you have to. Just get all your fellow PvP'ers to agree to not get them. Better yet, since we are wishing for stuff we didn't have at close, just have none of the accolade powers work in PvP. Now you don't have to grind to get them.

But I didn't realize this was a PvP thing. No point in continuing it PvPer's and PvE'er's seldom see eye to eye.

Example: Badging in a PvP zone. PvE'er - just wants to badge and says so after being killed. PvP'er - You're in the Zone, fair game! They will not agree. I don't see the sense of accomplishment in killing the same schmo over and over again in a PvP zone, but I presume you do. Different strokes.

By the way, the devs added the solo incarnate route because not everybody could get on a team or played when it possible. Some people just like to solo. But it's a bad point to raise since the Devs also said that it would take far longer to get the shinies doing it solo. It was actually more of a grind, not less.

They also reduced the requirements for a lot of the accolade badges, but it's true they never made them free.

But again, the part you didn't address: We didn't have this when the game closed. This is about getting us where we were, It's not making about it easier for PvPer's, all 10 of them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 06:30:42 PM
The one thing I would hope that everyone has learned by now is that there is not one way to play the game. There were lots of ways and everyone enjoyed they way they played it. As long as you aren't ruining someone else's fun, play however you like, whenever you like with whoever you like.

The minute you say something like "That's not playing the game" you are automatically incorrect.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Fridgy Daiere on July 10, 2014, 06:39:32 PM
Just a suggestion:  a cold drink, a couple of hours and 7 friends helps make those grind-y badges a lot more fun, not to mention faster!   :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
Just a suggestion:  a cold drink, a couple of hours and 7 friends helps make those grind-y badges a lot more fun, not to mention faster!   :D

Yeah, about a 3 man team can burn through those defeat badges pretty quick. I was killing Tsoo solo and broadcast if anyone wanted to join and 2 people did. I had to kill a few more to make sure they got it, but we chatted whilst taking down those pesky Tsoo sorcerers. Great fun
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Brightfires on July 10, 2014, 06:54:29 PM
Just a suggestion:  a cold drink, a couple of hours and 7 friends helps make those grind-y badges a lot more fun, not to mention faster!   :D

Heck, even a duo can make plowing through some of them a whole lot more tolerable... That's how FlyingCodeMonkey and I used to do things like the Fake Nem and Overseer hunts.

The only one that really remained a massive pain in the rear, even with a few friends coming along for the ride, was getting the carnie Master Illusionists and their pets. THAT was still obnoxious, no matter how you sliced it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 07:12:01 PM
Heck, even a duo can make plowing through some of them a whole lot more tolerable... That's how FlyingCodeMonkey and I used to do things like the Fake Nem and Overseer hunts.

The only one that really remained a massive pain in the rear, even with a few friends coming along for the ride, was getting the carnie Master Illusionists and their pets. THAT was still obnoxious, no matter how you sliced it.

Mainly because they just don't spawn anywhere near enough. I usually just ran the Carny mission in Oro if I missed them leveling. Also, there was an alignement mission that had them so you could get them there while earning alignment merist. I also hated Capo badge for the same reason, but at least you could hunt in two places for those guys.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
I haven't read all the posts but was going to say something about having a way to pay (or show from City Info Tracker) for all the badges/accolades on a certain character.  I had two "mains" getting all the badges that I could get with them.  Granted I really stopped doing it with my "main" villain but my "main" (Energizing Ion) had all the badges you get (with a char. that started as a hero and not a praetorian).  I would really not want to do the badge hunting thing again for all of those. :|  :(

Other thoughts:

*  Double or triple XP weeks (not just weekends :p)
*  Definitely some sort of 'pack' that you buy that can allow certain things (like access to everything (itrials, etc...) with different "levels" of what you get).

I wouldn't like to, but I would rather do that then make them all global unlocks. Worse, making them purchasable.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 10, 2014, 07:42:15 PM
But I didn't realize this was a PvP thing. No point in continuing it PvPer's and PvE'er's seldom see eye to eye.

It's not just a PvP thing - it's plenty annoying / boring for anyone who doesn't like high amounts of repetition to grind defeat badges on multiple characters. That's why I only had the one main badge character.

Example: Badging in a PvP zone. PvE'er - just wants to badge and says so after being killed. PvP'er - You're in the Zone, fair game! They will not agree. I don't see the sense of accomplishment in killing the same schmo over and over again in a PvP zone, but I presume you do. Different strokes.

I wouldn't presume such things - not every PvPer did that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Brightfires on July 10, 2014, 07:50:17 PM
I wouldn't presume such things - not every PvPer did that.

If playing Aion regularly has taught me one thing, it's that PvPers who love an "easy kill" (And let's be honest here, PvE-types do tend to be easier marks than other PvPers-) far, far outnumber the ones who honestly are looking for a fair fight.

I know you guys all protest when people say that, but what tends to happen on a regular basis in PvP games/zones sort-of makes all the arguments about how most of you AREN'T like that awfully difficult to believe.  :P
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Brightfires on July 10, 2014, 07:51:42 PM
I too believe in double posts?  ???
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 10, 2014, 07:56:12 PM
It would also make bases ridiculously easy to outfit as you would have all the the explore badges that grant the teleport beacons OR or impossible because you weren't in SG mode when you received them.
I remember having an issue with that.   I went around and got a bunch of exploration badges but had forgotten to turn on SG mode.   I just went back and stood on them again in SG and it worked.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: CrimsonCapacitor on July 10, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
Point of order: Guy Perfect wrote Sentinel+.  I've done some research into going the opposite direction.

So you're writing Sentinel-?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 08:00:05 PM
It's not just a PvP thing - it's plenty annoying / boring for anyone who doesn't like high amounts of repetition to grind defeat badges on multiple characters. That's why I only had the one main badge character.

I wouldn't presume such things - not every PvPer did that.

Probably not, but the ones I met in PvP zones did.

(Not to mention the trash talk. Can't even post it here without it pancaking every other word. Let's say there was a lot of talk about same sex sexual preference, poultry excrement, how you were a British slang word for a cigarette or how everyone was actually a bundle of sticks used for fire starting. Also perhaps some question about how you preferred sexual relations with your mother.) Most of that seems endemic to online gaming, but especially PvP. So many examples on every gaming platform

Like you I didn't do defeats except on my main or if I wanted a particular accolade. 1000 rikiti monkies! Ugh.

 But why should that unlock it on every single guy? It's not required to play the game. I had plenty of guys who never got the Atlas Medallion. They played just fine without it It's convenient, but not necessary.

But I'll go this far: Assuming we don't get our data back and if you have the sentinel+ files and they haven't had the checksum jacked with, (or maybe Badgehunter) we could use those to import badges and accolades on a character of the same name. Pay a small processing fee and you are good to go. Right back where you were when the game closed. That seems fair to me rather than global unlocks for everything.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 08:02:43 PM
I remember having an issue with that.   I went around and got a bunch of exploration badges but had forgotten to turn on SG mode.   I just went back and stood on them again in SG and it worked.

I actually didn't know that. I just used a different character in the same SG to unlock them if I already had them. Mainly, because it was easier to track them as they would appear as you got them and there was less searching for the one you missed because you just didn't have it yet.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 10, 2014, 08:10:40 PM
The minute you say something like "That's not playing the game" you are automatically incorrect.
*applause*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 10, 2014, 08:12:15 PM
Yeah, about a 3 man team can burn through those defeat badges pretty quick. I was killing Tsoo solo and broadcast if anyone wanted to join and 2 people did. I had to kill a few more to make sure they got it, but we chatted whilst taking down those pesky Tsoo sorcerers. Great fun
That was always the way I did the Fake badge.   Otherwise you are probably going to be competing with 3 other people/teams for the same spawns. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on July 10, 2014, 08:12:27 PM
Probably not, but the ones I met in PvP zones did.

(Not to mention the trash talk. Can't even post it here without it pancaking every other word. Let's say there was a lot of talk about same sex sexual preference, poultry excrement, how you were a British slang word for a cigarette or how everyone was actually a bundle of sticks used for fire starting. Also perhaps some question about how you preferred sexual relations with your mother.) Most of that seems endemic to online gaming, but especially PvP. So many examples on every gaming platform

Like you I didn't do defeats except on my main or if I wanted a particular accolade. 1000 rikiti monkies! Ugh.

 But why should that unlock it on every single guy? It's not required to play the game. I had plenty of guys who never got the Atlas Medallion. They played just fine without it It's convenient, but not necessary.

But I'll go this far: Assuming we don't get our data back and if you have the sentinel+ files and they haven't had the checksum jacked with, (or maybe Badgehunter) we could use those to import badges and accolades on a character of the same name. Pay a small processing fee and you are good to go. Right back where you were when the game closed. That seems fair to me rather than global unlocks for everything.

It was better at 1000 when it first came out it was 10k talk about ugh
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 10, 2014, 08:16:25 PM
I actually didn't know that. I just used a different character in the same SG to unlock them if I already had them. Mainly, because it was easier to track them as they would appear as you got them and there was less searching for the one you missed because you just didn't have it yet.
That's probably better.   Getting that badge announcement is a nice confirmation you actually stood on the right spot!   :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 08:20:22 PM
It was better at 1000 when it first came out it was 10k talk about ugh

I know! I can't imagine doing that. If we get the game back, I need to figure out how to get the healing badges for non-healing characters. I know it has something to do with the arena, but no details as it seemed tedious.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on July 10, 2014, 08:29:23 PM
I know! I can't imagine doing that. If we get the game back, I need to figure out how to get the healing badges for non-healing characters. I know it has something to do with the arena, but no details as it seemed tedious.

Well if they do I24 no more interrupt on the heal so that is good

If I remember correctly they do arena fight you and your buddy on one team the other guy against you they hit your buddy you heal him. They use to run heal parties in the arena never joined that is about as much as I remember ( I ran on Pinnacle and I sure they did them on other servers)

Also healing the NPC's in alignment missions when they take damage count fyi
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 10, 2014, 08:41:37 PM
Well if they do I24 no more interrupt on the heal so that is good

If I remember correctly they do arena fight you and your buddy on one team the other guy against you they hit your buddy you heal him. These use to run heal parties in the arena never joined that is about as much as I remember

Also healing the NPC's in alignment missions when they take damage count fyi

That is the kind badge I would only do once per SG. Getting them unlocks goodies for the base. But I would like to get them at least my main and once for each of the larger SG's I ran. I can dream!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DBadger on July 10, 2014, 09:35:38 PM
Just getting the game back would be golden for me.

Some sort of Founders Pack with loads of character slots, boosts, archetypes unlocked etc would be good (imo) As I am happy to support the game and to start from scratch. A lot of the fun was in the not having everything (or is that just me?)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: r00tb0ySlim on July 10, 2014, 09:50:27 PM
ALL badges? That I'd be against. But if it were just for time-limited things like anniversaries or holiday events, that I could get behind. Mind you, just the ones that are purely for logging in. If the character has to DO something to get it, it should stay as is.
Not bad...Me like  ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 10, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
I know! I can't imagine doing that. If we get the game back, I need to figure out how to get the healing badges for non-healing characters. I know it has something to do with the arena, but no details as it seemed tedious.

The Gladiator pet battles, I do believe. I think the Longbow Warden gladiator acquired from the 1400 PvP rep badge had a hefty heal, and that it counted when the pet fired it off.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 11, 2014, 06:36:49 AM
The Gladiator pet battles, I do believe. I think the Longbow Warden gladiator acquired from the 1400 PvP rep badge had a hefty heal, and that it counted when the pet fired it off.

Ah...yeah, that would be a problem. No PvP for me. maybe I can set up enough accounts and run them from my PC's and then just do it that way with autopowers.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 11, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
No PvP for me. maybe I can set up enough accounts and run them from my PC's and then just do it that way with autopowers.

"No PvP" is no problem for this badge. As I recall, I'm pretty sure that's how people did it - leaving their computers on overnight while they were attacked with brawl on auto, or something like that.



Looking back at the original question, it almost feels to me like NCSoft should pay for it - I mean, if someone or a company stopped allowing you to use a physical item, that person or company would have to compensate you for it. I mean, if you bought a tent, and the company that made the tent decided to take it back and not let you use it, you would theoretically be entitled to your money back (in part or in whole). The company couldn't really argue that "you got good use out of it for a while so you don't get money" - they're taking one of your belongings. But digital stuff is weird I guess.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: energizingion on July 11, 2014, 05:42:39 PM
Ah...yeah, that would be a problem. No PvP for me. maybe I can set up enough accounts and run them from my PC's and then just do it that way with autopowers.

Healing badges/farming...

There were always options to doing it...the ones I remember:

* Arena Gladiator pet battles.  Like someone already said, you (yourself) needed the Longbow Ballista 2 (?) pet which did the PBAoE heal which counted for you and as many as the other little pets that you can get.  Then you'd have your friend (or 2nd account) gladiator's pets attack one (or more) of your pets but make sure you set your pets as passive/don't move so that they don't attack back.  The Longbow will just continue to spam his heal and wa-la, you'll get your healing badge (after a long time of course).  I want to say that even a portion of the heal went to the healing badges even if the pets were 100% healthy but I could be wrong about that.

*  Get a few friends/random people who were Fire Controllers (or doms) with the Fire Imps.  Get a map that has lava in it (the one I remember being a part of was the "Save Statesman from Tyrant" in the Peregrine Island "hero's hero" story arc I think.  At the end, there are two pools of lava.  Obviously clear the room/etc, but just have everyone stand in the lava (turning off all accolades/shields, etc...) and summon the imps and other pets.  Set PBAoE heal on auto and that's about it.

*  Similar thing to #2 but really only need 1 other person (or a 2nd account).  Get a mission that has a +4 boss that has a melee attack that does a lot of damage.  Get that boss by himself, get the person that does NOT need the healing badges to go into "Rest".  This will make the person take 99% damage and have the other person just heal him.  It's a bit tricky since you have to make sure you can heal fast enough before the boss takes that next 'big' swing at the target.  The boss I used was a Rikti Swordsmen (?) +4 boss.  He did that one big sword swing attack and brawl and that was it.  By the time he used the big attack, I was fully healed so it worked out.  This also works for a person that wants to get the damage received badges.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 11, 2014, 07:19:17 PM
Healing badges/farming...

There were always options to doing it...the ones I remember:

* Arena Gladiator pet battles.  Like someone already said, you (yourself) needed the Longbow Ballista 2 (?) pet which did the PBAoE heal which counted for you and as many as the other little pets that you can get.  Then you'd have your friend (or 2nd account) gladiator's pets attack one (or more) of your pets but make sure you set your pets as passive/don't move so that they don't attack back.  The Longbow will just continue to spam his heal and wa-la, you'll get your healing badge (after a long time of course).  I want to say that even a portion of the heal went to the healing badges even if the pets were 100% healthy but I could be wrong about that.

*  Get a few friends/random people who were Fire Controllers (or doms) with the Fire Imps.  Get a map that has lava in it (the one I remember being a part of was the "Save Statesman from Tyrant" in the Peregrine Island "hero's hero" story arc I think.  At the end, there are two pools of lava.  Obviously clear the room/etc, but just have everyone stand in the lava (turning off all accolades/shields, etc...) and summon the imps and other pets.  Set PBAoE heal on auto and that's about it.

*  Similar thing to #2 but really only need 1 other person (or a 2nd account).  Get a mission that has a +4 boss that has a melee attack that does a lot of damage.  Get that boss by himself, get the person that does NOT need the healing badges to go into "Rest".  This will make the person take 99% damage and have the other person just heal him.  It's a bit tricky since you have to make sure you can heal fast enough before the boss takes that next 'big' swing at the target.  The boss I used was a Rikti Swordsmen (?) +4 boss.  He did that one big sword swing attack and brawl and that was it.  By the time he used the big attack, I was fully healed so it worked out.  This also works for a person that wants to get the damage received badges.

I'm gonna save this text for when we get the game back. I have many bases and only two with the healing badge reward. Must gets!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mageman on July 11, 2014, 09:22:54 PM
I must admit, that there were times I liked enjoyed having some things that others didn't. Like Prestige Power Slide from the CoH Collector's Edition (I think it was the first box that had CoH on one DVD instead of several CDs). Even though I had all the other "Run" powers from the Vet Rewards (I didn't pre-order CoH, so I didn't have them), I hardly ever claimed them. Standard Run I would slot with one -End, and Prestige Power Slide I would slot with one +Run, so I was covered whichever I chose.

Would I come back to CoX without my characters? YES!
Would I come back to CoX without my account data? YES!

However, that being said, without at least my Account Data, I wouldn't enjoy the game as much. I'm at the point in my life where I'm not going to just "Throw Money" at the new buyers to repurchase everything I already had. I would blame NCSoft for this problem, but I would probably place some of the blame on the new owners for not getting it (or getting it and not using it). I think it should be semi-easy to get the account data from NCSoft:

Personally, I don't see how the loss of the account data something insurmountable. It should be easy,
  • have NCSoft make a backup of the account data, then edit it as follows:
  • Ensure that each account is given a unique and random identification (ID), preferably something like a CD Key (like: WI8WT-B32X9-JYULM-VGM81-1UYVB)
  • Purge any account data that has any Personal Information (names, addresses, credit card numbers, etc.)
  • Purge any information not related to CoX
What you're left with is the account ID, and all the CoX information (Characters on which servers, and all purchases, vet rewards, etc.). Then allow people to log into their NCSoft accounts, and get that unique ID. Create an account with the new owners of CoX, and enter that ID and it will transfer your old NCSoft information to your new account, and you have to enter your own Personal Information. If there is any problems (like "Someone stole my account!") the new owners can point at NCSoft and say that the problem is on their end, we had nothing to do with it.

P.S. When CoV came out, my friends and I played villains on Virtue (we enjoyed the pun), and mostly heroes on Victory. When Going Rogue came out, we dropped off of Virtue and played almost exclusively on Victory. And as far as the loss of CoX affecting the sales of GW2, I know of 2 copies of GW2 that didn't get bought because it had NCSoft on the box sometime after CoX shutdown was announced.

So, not at least getting my account information back would reduce the amount of "throw money" at the new owners. And allowing people to get some of the exclusive items I had (and spent good money on a long time ago) for minimal cost would be a turn-off to CoX for me. I am special, and I felt special when at level 1 I had Prestige Power Slide and very few others did.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ouul on July 12, 2014, 08:11:58 AM
One other thing I thought of as an additional perk for being a VIP subscriber: The return of levelling pacts! Assuming that they have the tech/tools to actually make this work, these will work as they did back in days of yore, and if one account goes back to premium, it will no longer receive the benefits of the shared XP, and the still paying subscriber will level at normal XP gain. If the non-subscriber realises how AWESOME it is to be a VIP, when they resubscribe, the existing subscriber will not gain XP while playing alone or together, with all remains being sent to the one left behind until they are back at parity, and the usual Levelling Pact mechanics will kick in once again!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 12, 2014, 02:35:29 PM
Two things:

1. Account Data is more likely not available for legal reasons, not technical ones. NCSoft is a multinational corporation and this game was available in multiple countries. Retention and sale of personal and financial data varies from one jurisdiction to another. It might be legal in one but not another. It is likely, that NCSoft is erring on the side of caution to avoid legal entanglements. Ironwolf has stated on a number of occasions that account data is very unlikely.

2. The CoH engine is a custom engine built on propriety code developed over time by various coders. Some didn't document the code very well. It wasn't even written all in one language as various modules could be written in different code and compiled. It is unique, even the team at Cryptic who originally wrote it would have a hard time reading the source code, which is apparently missing. According to Iron Wolf all that may be available is a snapshot of the game at I24

To develop and expand the content and systems a custom set of tools was written. This set is apparently missing at this time. This means that anything that requires changes to the code or mechanics is very unlikely in the near term. So new powers, new perks, disentangled versions of PvP, changes to the badge system, new content are probably not going to happen upon relaunch. They may not happen at all if the new Dev team is tasked with port to a new engine or CoH2.

So try and work within the frame work of what was in I24. Things that require untangling of code and working tools that have to be written from scratch are unfeasible, if not near impossible. Bundles of store items? Possible, since the store was ran by a third party and sale of them was coded into the game and was something that was already available. Bundles of IO's? Doable.

50 level up tokens (as an example)? There was no power or ability to do this I24 available for sale or to players. Remember level bumps on the Beta were handled by GM's and were done essentially by hand. I think something like this sounds awesome but may not be possible.

It is likely that the buyers are reading these threads and even though they can't comment on anything due to NDA's if what we request is reasonable and doable, they are far more likely to take it seriously than to dismiss. Also, while they might LIKE some of the ideas they may not be able to do them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mageman on July 12, 2014, 04:35:16 PM
1. Account Data is more likely not available for legal reasons, not technical ones. NCSoft is a multinational corporation and this game was available in multiple countries. Retention and sale of personal and financial data varies from one jurisdiction to another. It might be legal in one but not another. It is likely, that NCSoft is erring on the side of caution to avoid legal entanglements. Ironwolf has stated on a number of occasions that account data is very unlikely.

Obviously, you didn't read my post. NCSoft gives the new owners a unique code to identify each account and what it has purchased. They will remove any information which they don't want to (or legally can't) give the new owners. You (the player) will have to get the code from NCSoft, and when you create your new account with the new owners, you will give the new owners this unique code and they will then import all your stuff. It is the responsibility of NCSoft to verify who is who before giving out this code.

It's a great solution to the problem. NCSoft will look good since it is trying to ensure everyone is getting back what they purchased, and will make the new owners look good since they are trying to ensure that you don't lose anything from the sale. It's called a Win-Win scenario!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 12, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
They won't care how helpful it would be and nice for players (who aren't paying them anything) if it means avoiding potential legal entanglements. So I still think it unlikely for the reasons I stated and also because Iron Wolf has said that is very unlikely that we could get account data back.

It could probably be done if the buyers agreed to indemnify the NCSoft against any potential lawsuits arising from it, but they would be fools to agree to it. An open ended guarantee involving potential multiple jurisdictions and international law? There is nothing in the data worth the potential risk.

But hey, they are reading the threads, maybe they will love your idea. Maybe their CFO and Legal Counsel are tripping balls and are huge gamblers and feel like rolling the dice that someone, somewhere won't sure somebody. I wouldn't, but to each his own.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Taliseian on July 13, 2014, 06:35:59 AM
Personally, with eight years of data - multiple alts, tonnes of influence, lots of IOs (no Hami), many hundreds of badges between them all......

....just to play again, I would gladly start all over from zero.


T
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 13, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
I know! I can't imagine doing that. If we get the game back, I need to figure out how to get the healing badges for non-healing characters. I know it has something to do with the arena, but no details as it seemed tedious.
Easiest way was to get the Healing Destiny power and stand in Mercy Island in the southernmost Arachnos base where a ton of troops are lined up.  Set the power on auto and wait a few hours while you make lunch or something.  Each casting did thousands of points of healing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 13, 2014, 09:02:49 AM
Easiest way was to get the Healing Destiny power and stand in Mercy Island in the southernmost Arachnos base where a ton of troops are lined up.  Set the power on auto and wait a few hours while you make lunch or something.  Each casting did thousands of points of healing.

Got something like that for blue side? If I unlock it red side will it transfer blue? I kinda doubt it since you need to be in SG mode when the badge is rewarded.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 13, 2014, 09:10:38 AM
Well, if you are actively in pursuit of Empath on a non-healer I assumed it would be a Badging character.  As such, you'd have to switch sides to get all the badges anyway, so I just did it on one of my jaunts through the Rogue Isles.

What does SG Mode have to do with Empath?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 13, 2014, 03:04:11 PM
Well, if you are actively in pursuit of Empath on a non-healer I assumed it would be a Badging character.  As such, you'd have to switch sides to get all the badges anyway, so I just did it on one of my jaunts through the Rogue Isles.

What does SG Mode have to do with Empath?

There were also a set of SG badges/awards based on the amount of healing done.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 13, 2014, 03:51:22 PM
There were also a set of SG badges/awards based on the amount of healing done.

Yeah the SG Achievement badges let you buy inspires at your base. It could also improve resurrection.  For my main badger, that would absolutely work, but I was hoping to combine the two tasks. I can do stuff grindy like this if I have to but I don't enjoy it so I like to get the most bang for my buck.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mageman on July 13, 2014, 05:17:07 PM
Easiest way was to get the Healing Destiny power and stand in Mercy Island in the southernmost Arachnos base where a ton of troops are lined up.  Set the power on auto and wait a few hours while you make lunch or something.  Each casting did thousands of points of healing.

I never heard of this. I hope to try it out if and when CoX comes back!

Yeah the SG Achievement badges let you buy inspires at your base. It could also improve resurrection.  For my main badger, that would absolutely work, but I was hoping to combine the two tasks. I can do stuff grindy like this if I have to but I don't enjoy it so I like to get the most bang for my buck.

If you want to do it for your SG, if I remember correctly, you could be in the Rogue Islands in SG mode as a vigilante (still hero, but falling). IF I remember correctly!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 13, 2014, 05:46:14 PM
I never heard of this. I hope to try it out if and when CoX comes back!

If you want to do it for your SG, if I remember correctly, you could be in the Rogue Islands in SG mode as a vigilante (still hero, but falling). IF I remember correctly!

OK. I couldn't remember exactly when you lost designation in alignment process and had to leave your SG. I only had one Villain SG so I could do go vigilante do it for the hero base finish the side change and then do it for the Villain base.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Luna Eclypse on July 13, 2014, 06:19:50 PM
I don't know if I'd aim to re-level all the characters I used to have... there were many. If we have to start over from scratch, I think I'll slow down to enjoy myself more this time. CoH was always, to me, a game about the journey and not the destination. Around the time the Incarnate System was in place, I found myself pining for the earlier days when the major focus was just meeting up with new people and going out to kick some butt together. That was less exciting for me with everyone gunning for the new end-game content in a hurry. Repeating those same Incarnate Trials over and over became tiresome just from never going to different places. I maxed out all of the available Incarnate Powers on maybe two characters and decided I was done with it until new ones were released. I spent more time going back and starting new characters.

A game usually only gets to make one first impression on a player. 9 years ago, it made me fall in love with it. With this 2 year absence, if we have to start over, it gets to make that impression all over again for me. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: kierthos on July 13, 2014, 07:55:25 PM
If we get the game back, and it doesn't have character data/account data... well, I'd be a bit upset, but you know, we'd have the game back.

Personally, I wouldn't mind leveling up my characters again (mind you, I only had two level 50s...), but I would miss having some of the costume options from the Veteran Rewards. Mind you, I did 'jump forward' something like 27 months in Veteran rewards in one day....
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: btru on July 13, 2014, 08:08:48 PM
Maybe early access to the character creator so we could reserve our names and character builds early?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on July 13, 2014, 08:40:00 PM
Standard Run I would slot with one -End, and Prestige Power Slide I would slot with one +Run, so I was covered whichever I chose.
That's a good idea.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Evala Tempest on July 14, 2014, 02:23:45 AM
I am urged by me desire to play this again to say that any thing extra is only a perk. No other game has held the same place in my heart as that of COH. That being said, I was very spoiled by the vet rewards and would most dearly love to have it. I will miss my traps defender and scrapper that were incarnate. I should hope there will be some method for "catching up" for the loss of influence and killer enhancements. Having all that data restore would most certainly be a gift. Having said that, achieving all those "perks" was apart of the fun.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: WolfSoul on July 14, 2014, 06:59:35 PM
If we do not get our data (characters, etc) back. I can live with it. I keep waffling between wanting to start over and not wanting to start over (all those alts! lol)

What I'd like to see is that everything that exists in game, costumes, powersets, I/O's, etc. All be available to all subscribers as the base game and NEW vet rewards, store items, etc be made to fill the hole.

Just my two cents.

Wolfsoul
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Neutron-Star on July 15, 2014, 05:38:00 AM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on July 15, 2014, 10:28:05 AM
Either way, I would like some of the existing NPC costume parts to become purchasable. PPD powered armor and such.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 15, 2014, 06:04:29 PM
Either way, I would like some of the existing NPC costume parts to become purchasable. PPD powered armor and such.

I think the Enforcer set was made because folks liked the PPD armor so much. If I recall correctly the PPD armor clipped majorly, and also had a few places where there was no mesh, so you had invisible bits at certain angles, as they were designed to fit together with the other PPD armor parts, and not just any old thing.

Though looking at it in Icon (after discovering that the PPD Shell doesn't exist on the female frame) that if you use the Tights, it clips a lot less than I recall. Though I can't seem to find the gloves, which to my recollection were the piece I was thinking of the most. I want to say that it's the hoses on the gloves I was thinking of.

Or maybe I'm thinking of another powered armor-y thing?

But yeah, there's a lot of NPC stuff that I'd love to have bludgeoned towards working nicely with other bits. The Victoria pieces for one, more of the Thorns outfit pieces for another.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 15, 2014, 07:43:25 PM
I don't know... I think there is a certain status to have NPC costume components. the idea that it separates out the players from the NPCs helps to make the game a bit more immersive. you can't just clone your favourite NPC's look  makes it more imperitive that the game is about you and your quest to save the city, not the PPD's, or Vanguards, or Arachnos's, etc... besides, if you really want to wear PPD power armor, there was always ToT
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 15, 2014, 08:03:31 PM
Without the dev tools (missing at this time) it is likely that NPC parts will stay exactly that. But if they make CoH2, maybe it could be in there.

Really, until the sale happens (please, oh please!) it's all speculation base what Iron Wolf has said and what can be gleaned from what Codewalker has said about how server side works based on what calls the client made. A slippery slope to base an argument on.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GN2 on July 15, 2014, 09:27:56 PM
My opinion on payment is pretty simple: Gating content behind paywalls is bad, as it fragments the playerbase. Being able to directly purchase power (The "super boosts" that were offered late in the game's lifespan are a direct example of this, with things like the store enhancements and good powersets being cash shop only being less direct examples) is extremely bad.

(And yes, I do consider pay-for-ATs to be content)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Brightfires on July 15, 2014, 11:05:48 PM
I don't know... I think there is a certain status to have NPC costume components. the idea that it separates out the players from the NPCs helps to make the game a bit more immersive. you can't just clone your favourite NPC's look  makes it more imperitive that the game is about you and your quest to save the city, not the PPD's, or Vanguards, or Arachnos's, etc... besides, if you really want to wear PPD power armor, there was always ToT

It still would have been nice to have the Death Mage bits for my Nemissary, though. He was supposed to be a rogue Death Mage, after all. 

I'd have colored them entirely white, of course, and switched a few details out here and there... He never was one for strict conformity... But it would have been awfully nice for him to have access to the proper hat and spikey back-pieces at the very least.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 15, 2014, 11:18:06 PM
Or maybe I'm thinking of another powered armor-y thing?
I'm pretty sure what are saying matched the story we were told regarding PPD Shell armor. I'm theorizing these were parts they had working before they gave up because of the arms or some other issue. Though running around in live with the purchased transform power they eventually gave, I really don't see where any significant collision / missing geometry would have been: The "glove" arm components are some bicep armor and the gun bracers and both seem sufficiently broken up from the shoulders and eachother.

I never understood the collision fear anyway. Some collisions can be used for highly interesting looks. And if a part collides or shears in a way that doesn't look good, people simply won't use the combo so they don't look bad (and if they really do want to look bad, the random button generally produces more gruesome results anyway).

I don't know... I think there is a certain status to have NPC costume components. the idea that it separates out the players from the NPCs helps to make the game a bit more immersive.
Personally, I think having more components that match those of non-unique entities in the game world available make it *more* immersive. They provide immediate clear hints and questions about your background (be it that the piece is one from your former/current alligience or a trophy from enemies). And they can help solidify your connection to the setting in a concrete way. I give as the ultimate example the villain Arachnos archetypes: Many of those who enjoyed them had a great time acting and looking the part.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Paragon Avenger on July 16, 2014, 03:53:13 AM
I say give nobody nothing.
And give me everything.
Wait, that sounds like a villain, I usually played heroes.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on July 16, 2014, 07:33:46 AM
I never understood the collision fear anyway. Some collisions can be used for highly interesting looks. And if a part collides or shears in a way that doesn't look good, people simply won't use the combo so they don't look bad (and if they really do want to look bad, the random button generally produces more gruesome results anyway).
Indeed. See my avatar - Roman helmet pieces plus Enforcer mask and jaw :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Thirty-Seven on July 16, 2014, 09:26:50 AM
If you want to do it for your SG, if I remember correctly, you could be in the Rogue Islands in SG mode as a vigilante (still hero, but falling). IF I remember correctly!
Correct.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 16, 2014, 03:20:39 PM
I'm pretty sure what are saying matched the story we were told regarding PPD Shell armor. I'm theorizing these were parts they had working before they gave up because of the arms or some other issue. Though running around in live with the purchased transform power they eventually gave, I really don't see where any significant collision / missing geometry would have been: The "glove" arm components are some bicep armor and the gun bracers and both seem sufficiently broken up from the shoulders and eachother.

I never understood the collision fear anyway. Some collisions can be used for highly interesting looks. And if a part collides or shears in a way that doesn't look good, people simply won't use the combo so they don't look bad (and if they really do want to look bad, the random button generally produces more gruesome results anyway).
Personally, I think having more components that match those of non-unique entities in the game world available make it *more* immersive. They provide immediate clear hints and questions about your background (be it that the piece is one from your former/current alligience or a trophy from enemies). And they can help solidify your connection to the setting in a concrete way. I give as the ultimate example the villain Arachnos archetypes: Many of those who enjoyed them had a great time acting and looking the part.

Regarding the PPD, I think it's more about clipping with other stuff, than itself. But I generally agree - if something clips with a couple other options, leave it. Some stuff is just going to clip with other things - Gladiator shoulder armor pads, for example, probably clipped with some head / neck stuff, I'm sure, but that's not reason to remove them.

And I also agree that players should have access to NPC parts. The great thing about CoH is that you can RP as part of those groups (current or former) and it's perfectly fine - so why not let us look the part?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on July 16, 2014, 03:28:04 PM
I think the issue with the PPD shell pieces isn't clipping but rather that they are designed to work as a complete set and don't line up with the standard costume. Been a while since I looked at them, but I seem to remember for example the chest piece just... stopping where the arms are supposed to connect, with exposed invisible backfacing polygons.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 16, 2014, 06:15:21 PM
Been a while since I looked at them, but I seem to remember for example the chest piece just... stopping where the arms are supposed to connect, with exposed invisible backfacing polygons.
I studied it a bit more:

On the Chest Detail component I can't find any geometry holes and while at certain very specific angles you can see that the lower tube components are a 2 dimensional mesh, that's difficult to spot and similar to the behavior of many normal pieces like the chains in Chain 1.

I do see a small but noticeable (from the side) gap on the rear upper arm guards (which are linked to the shoulder armor slot along with the actual shoulder piece). Its not a huge visual problem but definitely a flaw. This probably could have been originally fixed by carrying the mesh through deeper into the arm.

Sliders on the Chest Detail are actual the big issue it turns out: Unless you keep the Chest at a bit higher setting then Physique then breathing sends your upper torso periodically through the upper tubes (which also means you can't max Physique because you can't then compensate with the Chest slider). Worse, the Waist slider has no impact whatsoever: All sizing of the part is dictated by Physique/Chest, and Physique's impact on the waist area is insufficient, so the higher your Physique, the lower you have to set the Waist to prevent your lower torso passing through the bottom tubes. They probably could have fixed this as we have similar torso wrapping solid parts, but for NPC only purposes I can understand skipping this sort of thing.

In any case I still think it would be cool to have the pieces available in a relaunch situation, but its definitely a "use at your own risk" set of components thanks to the structural limitations. If the tools were available and I was involved I will say it would be fun to try and fix the slider / arm plate issues. I once bound the normal Sims 2 adult movement links to a mesh I made of a 6 limbed tentacle webcomic monster  ( you can see it at http://www.modthesims.info/d/248188 ) which actually worked out pretty well, so I can't imagine this as hugely harder. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: FlyingCarcass on July 16, 2014, 07:42:30 PM
Personally I'd be okay with starting from square one since leveling was always fun (and if everyone had to start from square one, that means there would be many people to team with at around the same level at the start of the reboot).

As for CoH products, personally I'd prefer to pay a reasonable price up front and have everything unlocked than to deal with nickle and dime DLC.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 16, 2014, 11:23:41 PM
Personally I'd be okay with starting from square one since leveling was always fun (and if everyone had to start from square one, that means there would be many people to team with at around the same level at the start of the reboot).

As for CoH products, personally I'd prefer to pay a reasonable price up front and have everything unlocked than to deal with nickle and dime DLC.
here here... I was fine with the way freedm worked, with a mix of totally free items, vet items, and items locked behind paywalls. It presented a ood mix based on what you were prepared to invest into the game in both time and money.

That said everyone going on about how they want everything to be free from day one moment one needs to stop and ask a couple questions... Unless the group buying the game is independently wealthy and intends to run it as a charity, money has to come from SOMEWHERE to keep the servers going. Also, if everything in the game is free and unlocked, how will that affect certain aspects of the game like the auction system or crafting? Remember some costume elements were locked behind both the vet system AND the craft system, meaning first you had to either earn the time, or buy an unlock, and THEN go and get ingredients to craft certain costume elements like tech wings or specific boots or long coats.

It's all well and good to want everything free and clear, but certain parts of the game mechanics are designed around the pay and vet structures
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Von Krieger on July 17, 2014, 03:03:52 AM
As the Evil Emperor of German Chocolate, I will state that if we start with no character data the reason is that I have dipped each of your characters in chocolate, eaten them, and am rolling nude in their influence and enhancements.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 17, 2014, 05:44:14 AM
As the Evil Emperor of German Chocolate, I will state that if we start with no character data the reason is that I have dipped each of your characters in chocolate, eaten them, and am rolling nude in their influence and enhancements.

be careful. Some of those have sharp edges. Don't get your blood in the chocolate.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Davy on July 17, 2014, 06:50:38 AM
Just thinking about that cleansed Name Pool if we start without data makes me all giddy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Apex Viper on July 17, 2014, 06:55:26 AM
I would be ok with no user data at least the game would be back...think of all those character names that were always taken being freed up...

I think in all fairness to both sides, the new owners and returning players, maybe offer a pre-order deal....one level 50 unlocked at start up, all vet rewards, booster/costume packs unlocked, all pre-shutdown content unlocked. After release, these things with the exception of the level 50, can be sold in their own booster packs as they once were. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Twi on July 17, 2014, 07:32:20 AM
I'd love it. Hell, I have a better name in mind for my main. I mean. I'd miss my build full of purples and PVP uniques, yeah. But I can get that crap again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Acanous on July 17, 2014, 06:19:50 PM
This one's for Ironwolf.
If we start with no user data, I would very much like builds to be accessable from our old characters. While I have saved a number of my builds, I am missing my stalker and warshade slotting, and I'd like to have my scrapper's, too.

Character data is independent of user data, so it shouldn't be too difficult to use something like the Character Transfer Tool and key in say, Acanous - Virtue and get the build of my old lv 50 stalker.
Separating the "Legacy" characters from active is likely to already require some kind of code wall, so people aren't being told "There's already a character of that name" when trying to recreate. I ask only that the characters so separated have their builds saved- accessable to anyone who knows the name and server is fine by me, and I used to charge inf for building toons. (The logic there is threefold- firstly, only you are really going to know all of your toons- it's been two years. Secondly, I'd rather HAVE the build data than start fresh- that was a lot of work, and it'd be a lot of work for the devs to try restricting characters to specific accounts. Thirdly, if people do start stealing your awesome builds, that means we're going to have a lot higher bars of competency. The new sets released which a good builder will be able to integrate will not show up on your "Legacy" build, meaning copycats will get a great toon... but yours will still be unique.)


We'd have to work our way back up there, of course, meaning more time playing the game.
How is it fair to the devs?
Well, it minimizes the work they'll have to do (Adding this system would be a chore, but the tech already exists), gives the players the old characters back without being "Everyone gets 50'd", which gives players a goal to work towards and thus spend more time gaming, and finally incentivises us to buy sets from the cash shop without feeling like dirty cheaters. (If we know what our slotting was, and worked for it before, it's not the same as pay-to-win, which had a negative stigma in the old CoH.) This should bump sales of IO sets, and would be much appreciated by the players.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nealix on July 17, 2014, 10:48:01 PM
I can see them offering some sort of incentive at the beginning to get folks back in game but if the user data is gone then the incentive should just be to play, not what you had before.  Honestly I'll play no matter what.  User data, no user data, incentive or no incentive I'll just be glad to be back in Paragon City!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: artbunker on July 17, 2014, 10:56:19 PM
I can see them offering some sort of incentive at the beginning to get folks back in game but if the user data is gone then the incentive should just be to play, not what you had before.  Honestly I'll play no matter what.  User data, no user data, incentive or no incentive I'll just be glad to be back in Paragon City!

I think we'll all be glad to get back to Paragon City. ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 18, 2014, 03:10:30 AM
I think we'll all be glad to get back to Paragon City. ;D
what he said
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 18, 2014, 05:57:26 AM
There is almost no one who doesn't want the game back before any and all other considerations.

But being human, we want whatever we can get. But, yeah, to have the game back would mean more to me than almost anything.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Waffles on July 18, 2014, 11:15:14 PM
CoH was probably the only game i've ever actually enjoyed leveling, and just smashing stuff in the face at level cap in.

Well, SWTOR was fun for leveling for it's storys and whatnot but otherwise, eh, Nowhere close.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Neutron-Star on July 19, 2014, 12:09:06 AM
I think in all fairness to both sides, the new owners and returning players, maybe offer a pre-order deal....one level 50 unlocked at start up, all vet rewards, booster/costume packs unlocked, all pre-shutdown content unlocked. After release, these things with the exception of the level 50, can be sold in their own booster packs as they once were.

I think this is a great idea. I could totally get behind this.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Mistress Urd on July 19, 2014, 01:43:00 AM
There is almost no one who doesn't want the game back before any and all other considerations.

But being human, we want whatever we can get. But, yeah, to have the game back would mean more to me than almost anything.

Oh yeah, it would be rather disappointing to not get our characters back, but its not as disappointing as having no game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 20, 2014, 01:24:41 AM
if we HAVE to start with zero data (frankly I think that's more likely than not) I may take one for the team and make a support toon first
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Waffles on July 20, 2014, 02:42:27 PM
One concern I have, is that making character builds is likely going to be much harder, with the reduced population and in the case of a data wipe, a clean slate. (None are going to be floating around)

Levels can be gained fairly easily, but the enhancements/ios not-as much, so i'd much rather a measure be taken to make obtaining these somewhat more in the grasp of reality. Perhaps just a crapload of villain/hero merits when we start out?

That and veteran costume pieces would be nice.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 20, 2014, 05:34:11 PM
or perhaps seed the auction houses with quite a few and let game economics take its course.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Lava-Lad on July 20, 2014, 06:26:12 PM
As a lot of others have said, getting back to Paragon is what matters most (re rolling be damned).  That being said, allowing folks to pre-order, reserve a name or five and provide a path to recreating the avatars that we all knew each other through appear to this spectator pretty smart moves by whoever can resurrect CoH.  If all of our data is lost (and I'm assuming it is), offering folks the option to get back to normal through some expedited channels (2X XP, more choices in mish rewards or even a single maxed out 50+++) seem like minor issues.  How much impact can a single maxed out 50 per account really have on the market or the game?  No one I played with regularly ever had just one main...we all had a main fill in the blank (scrapper,tank, on Pinn, on Justice, etc.).  I assume that anyone reading this will play the hell out of any 50 they are able to recover or are "given", but wil shortly thereafter be rerolling another alt.

I will play (and pay for) the game when it comes back, regardless of what we start with.  As to the aversion to paying for content, I'm not sure I understand it all that well.  All of us who paid subscriptions or bought from the cash shop were paying for content, and I don't think that was a bad thing (I mean, I like to get paid for my work too). 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ohioknight on July 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
One concern I have, is that making character builds is likely going to be much harder, with the reduced population and in the case of a data wipe, a clean slate. (None are going to be floating around)

Levels can be gained fairly easily, but the enhancements/ios not-as much, so i'd much rather a measure be taken to make obtaining these somewhat more in the grasp of reality. Perhaps just a crapload of villain/hero merits when we start out?

That and veteran costume pieces would be nice.

Or you could just play without optimized builds until the economics restores everything.  I don't think the game was really designed with the intention of everybody instantly having total selection of all possible enhancements -- it just worked out that way over time.

Early restoration will just be kind of like playing in one of those "one-green button" servers ... Liberty, perhaps?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: blacksly on July 20, 2014, 11:08:57 PM
Or you could just play without optimized builds until the economics restores everything.  I don't think the game was really designed with the intention of everybody instantly having total selection of all possible enhancements -- it just worked out that way over time.

Early restoration will just be kind of like playing in one of those "one-green button" servers ... Liberty, perhaps?

Yeah. It's not like you can't solo AVs using SOs. As for the servers, weren't the markets consolidated across the servers?
In any case... so even the power players with lots of time will have to wait a month or two to get a truly maxed out character or two. Is that really a major problem, considering how long we've waited to play at all?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 21, 2014, 04:29:27 AM
Yes it was all one market, all factions, all servers. Same inventory no matter where you were.

Which was awesome if you played redside where the pop was always low.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ohioknight on July 22, 2014, 01:18:55 AM
Yes it was all one market, all factions, all servers. Same inventory no matter where you were.

Which was awesome if you played redside where the pop was always low.

Was that always the case?  I would have sworn I'd seen barren wastelands in low population servers (maybe I'm just delusional)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Serpine on July 22, 2014, 01:58:59 AM
Was that always the case?  I would have sworn I'd seen barren wastelands in low population servers (maybe I'm just delusional)
I believe it was Issue 18 things when all consignment houses on all sides were merged, so the wasteland you are recalling could have just been a flashback to the era before that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Solitaire on July 22, 2014, 05:47:37 AM
Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!

I'd be just happy to have the game back, wouldn't be that bothered if had to start from scratch. Had a few 50's but could get those back after time, I would see it as a new game due to NCSoft closing the game and a new studio starting it up again. Just my two cents!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DarkCurrent on July 22, 2014, 06:06:44 AM
I'd rank the following as my priorities for returning / expectations:

I want all powersets available from I23 for free at restart.  The planned I24 sets would have to be purchased.

I want all the ATs available for free.  Exception:  I could see Khelds and SoAs being 'premium' as a concession.  Perhaps you get them free if you unlock at level 50 like the good ole days, but you could buy them earlier.

I want at least 12 character slots per server for free.  If there's a server compression, then I'd like that number bumped to 16 or 24, depending on number of servers.  Extra slots need to be purchased or earned.

I don't need a free level 50.  2x xp would be fine for that.  Purchaseable xp boosters were available with freedom so that's easy to get if I want to level faster.

I can live without my vet rewards to start (I had all of them at time of closure).  However, I'd like to see the vet tree available again in whatever store there is.  This way I can earn points again and move up the tree for the powers I want, or can purchase to get them faster.

Costume sets.  This is a tough one.  I bought my fair share of sets and pieces, so I'd like them available for free.  However, I could concede that some of the major packs are things I'd have to repurchase / earn.

Content.  I think it should all be unlocked.  SSAs.  Incarnate.  Praetoria.  Don't restrict / exclude players from being able to team and have fun with each other.  That will just piss people off.

My demands are based on the simple fact that this game ran on being able to create alts.  That means any new ownership should not include a nickel and dime system that forces players from deciding whether than can create a new alt or not.  The more alts a new player can create with powersets, ATs, and to a degree, costumes, the happier the players would be.  Happy players = supportive players who'll spend money.

I'd suggest that the new ownership would be better off asking for more money upfront than nickel and diming players.  I'd be willing to pay something like a full price box value for total I23 access than a month sub + 5 bucks for this, 5 bucks for that, 10 more for this, and to more to do that.

Furthermore, they could also bump up the monthly fee to 20 and no one would complain if it meant we got all the stuff we had and the team was working toward continuing the game.  If they needed more money after that to finish I24 and /or move on to CoX 2, they can just ask.  Look at the CoT Kickstarter (or the Zombicide 3) for evidence of what a community is willing to pay / donate to get something they want.  Again, don't nickel and dime.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Lava-Lad on July 23, 2014, 02:21:09 AM

I'd suggest that the new ownership would be better off asking for more money upfront than nickel and diming players.  I'd be willing to pay something like a full price box value for total I23 access than a month sub + 5 bucks for this, 5 bucks for that, 10 more for this, and to more to do that.

Furthermore, they could also bump up the monthly fee to 20 and no one would complain if it meant we got all the stuff we had and the team was working toward continuing the game.  If they needed more money after that to finish I24 and /or move on to CoX 2, they can just ask.  Look at the CoT Kickstarter (or the Zombicide 3) for evidence of what a community is willing to pay / donate to get something they want.  Again, don't nickel and dime.

this would be a respectful approach.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on July 23, 2014, 02:59:34 AM
$20/month would not be out of line, but i would hope we would get some development for that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DarkCurrent on July 23, 2014, 03:09:14 AM
Definitely would want to be paying for more development.

I'm figuring the 'box' cost up front would cover the purchase of the game and the first year of staffing.  Based upon X users.

Then, the subs would be for continued operation and development.  I don't think there's a ton that needs to be added.  The game and its systems are all there with 8 years of content.  Just a powerset or story arc or trial every few months would be really good.  Extra cash could be put aside for CoX II.  A kickstarter or new box could be pre-sold to cover the rest of the development.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on July 23, 2014, 03:15:34 AM
Thing is I will recruit new players, I can assure the new buyers they will get lots of NEW players as well as seasoned vets back cuz I won't relent. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Apex Viper on July 23, 2014, 03:36:54 AM
Thing is I will recruit new players, I can assure the new buyers they will get lots of NEW players as well as seasoned vets back cuz I won't relent. :)

The ripple of a resurrected game, that the community fought to safe alone will grab new players. Then once they are in, they will get hooked like we all did.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 23, 2014, 04:54:29 AM
I would like to see the following:


City Of Heroes: Basic Edition $25 - This includes the entire game CoH/CoV/Going Rogue. You would start out as a brand new player.. no vet rewards etc + 2000 Paragon points total


City Of Heroes: Revival Edition $45 - This includes everything from Basic Edition plus 50 costume unlock pieces and all the vet rewards + 3,600 Paragon points total


City Of Heroes: Revival Deluxe Edition - $65 Everything from Basic and Revival Editions and... all costumes unlocked + 5,200 Paragon points total


In the paragon market I would like to see ALL the previous enhancements offered at a SERIOUSLY reduced rate (Think 20%) as well as the sale of Alignment Merits at a VERY reasonable price. This will allow for an influx of enhancements in the beginning which will help stimulate the economy.


Both the Revival Edition and the Revival Deluxe Edition would award your first 10 toons X amount of reward merits (9,999 seems like a fair number to me) this will allow for players to buy recipes to start the market off as well as their toons.


I don't think there should be ANY free players. but I think it should be a two tier system


$9.99/month  is a Premium player who has access to everything.
$14.99/month is a VIP who has access to everything and gets 800 Paragon points a month (So basically you are getting 400 free paragon points a month since 400 costs $5) and.....


Members who are VIP at least 1 year (does not have to be consecutive months) will gain closed beta access to CoH2 as well as a special badge to signify their commitment; which is account bound and granted to every character in CoH2.


Members who are VIP more than 1 year (does not have to be consecutive months) will gain closed beta access to CoH2 and have a 1 week head start on CoH2 as well as a special badge to signify their commitment which is account bound and granted to every character in CoH2 AND have access to a variety of in-game titles to celebrate their devotion.


Members who are VIP from re-launch to CoH2 with no lapse in status will gain closed beta access to CoH2, a 1 week head start on CoH2, the previous 2 perks (badge and title), AND a hand signed boxed edition of CoH2 from the devs.




Just my thoughts now that I have been up for 26 hours... :)

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Apex Viper on July 23, 2014, 05:58:39 AM
I would like to see the following:


City Of Heroes: Basic Edition $25 - This includes the entire game CoH/CoV/Going Rogue. You would start out as a brand new player.. no vet rewards etc + 2000 Paragon points total


City Of Heroes: Revival Edition $45 - This includes everything from Basic Edition plus 50 costume unlock pieces and all the vet rewards + 3,600 Paragon points total


City Of Heroes: Revival Deluxe Edition - $65 Everything from Basic and Revival Editions and... all costumes unlocked + 5,200 Paragon points total

These seem like fair prices to me....shut up and take my $65.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 23, 2014, 02:44:29 PM

Yeah I would totally buy the Deluxe Revival Edition AND be VIP until CoH2 :)

These seem like fair prices to me....shut up and take my $65.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 23, 2014, 02:51:37 PM
Burnt Toast, I like some of your ideas. However, I don't like the idea that people who are VIP in CoH get advanced perks for CoH2. I'm sure I will purchase at least some time in CoH, and hopefully I'll be able to play for free after that. But assuming that CoH2 is announced fairly soon after CoH is bought, I will likely save money for that. While I understand the idea behind rewarding people who are committed to the franchise as a whole, I don't know that people like me who are committed but want to save money up front to spend on CoH 2 later should be "penalized" (in quotes since I'm not really being penalized, it's just that others are being elevated above me). I just have mixed feelings about it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 23, 2014, 03:19:04 PM
If the game comes back as I24 essentially in maintenance mode don't you think there ought to be some perk for staying subscribed to 10 year old game that is going to have no new content or powers developed for it? What if CoH2 takes 2 years to develop?

They will need the money and I think it's plenty fair that people supporting CoH get the stupid tote bag because none of the money they pay is going to fund development in the game they are playing. They are essentially supporting the development of CoH2 and so yeah, I think they should get perks in it.

You should always find a way to reward your most loyal customers.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 23, 2014, 03:22:22 PM

Felderburg,


I understand your situation/hesitancy towards the "perks" associated with the VIP subscription model. We here at Supradine Studios understand that our subscription model will never fit every user's situation which is why we offered tiered plans at the VIP level. Each tier offers something to reward those players who show their commitment to CoH and CoH2 through their VIP subscriptions. Our current proposed model will have CoH2 entering into beta testing approximately 2.5 years after the relaunch of CoH. We feel that this length of time will allow many users the opportunity to participate in and achieve the rewards associated with the second tier of VIP subscription (More than one year of VIP status). When we surveyed past CoH players we found the offered incentives to be among the most popular and accepted with the CoH player base. We hope this helps explain our decision surrounding the VIP bonuses as they relate to CoH2 and look forward to seeing you in game when the new streets of Paragon city debut in 2017.




**Supradine Studios is not a real studio nor do I have any actual knowledge regarding CoH relaunch or the introduction of CoH2...I just thought my reply would sound better if it came from a studio perspective LOL**

Burnt Toast, I like some of your ideas. However, I don't like the idea that people who are VIP in CoH get advanced perks for CoH2. I'm sure I will purchase at least some time in CoH, and hopefully I'll be able to play for free after that. But assuming that CoH2 is announced fairly soon after CoH is bought, I will likely save money for that. While I understand the idea behind rewarding people who are committed to the franchise as a whole, I don't know that people like me who are committed but want to save money up front to spend on CoH 2 later should be "penalized" (in quotes since I'm not really being penalized, it's just that others are being elevated above me). I just have mixed feelings about it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DarkCurrent on July 23, 2014, 06:03:09 PM
I like the idea of including pts to spend on whatever premium perks you want from the store as a way to get back lost items.

This would start everyone at the same point and give a method to reacquire powersets, costume pieces, vet powers, etc they owned prior to close without having to repay actual cash.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Paragon Avenger on July 24, 2014, 05:32:24 AM
I don't know, maybe give nobody nothing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 24, 2014, 02:48:43 PM

Nobody is being GIVEN anything. There are rewards for certain commitments. Would you like to clarify why you said what you said? The logic behind your statement?


CoH1 needs to not only make up the money spent for the purchase but also needs to help fund CoH2 as much as possible. Offering a Premium and VIP subscription...will do that as much as possible. I am vehemently against free players as there is NO proof (Aside from Mr. Anecdotal stating he spent x amount of money) that free players provided any money to CoH whereas if you are subscribed/VIP that's a guaranteed monthly amount.  With CoH1 being stuck in maintenance mode... you need an incentive for people to pay and to continue to pay for 2.5 years...

I don't know, maybe give nobody nothing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on July 24, 2014, 04:13:39 PM
...there is NO proof (Aside from Mr. Anecdotal stating he spent x amount of money) that free players provided any money to CoH whereas if you are subscribed/VIP that's a guaranteed monthly amount.  With CoH1 being stuck in maintenance mode... you need an incentive for people to pay and to continue to pay for 2.5 years...

I thought several devs were quoted saying CoH was MUCH more profitable under F2P than subscription?

Also, I still have mixed feelings about your plan, but my sense of entitlement makes me hate it! It's sort of weird, actually.

I think the thing that I disliked the most was the closed beta (etc.) access. Badges for vet time in CoH can be earned later (IF I want to spend on two games) but if I decide to save my money up for CoH2, and not spend that much on CoH, it just feels like I'm being penalized for not spending money, even if I'm just as "loyal".
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Waffles on July 24, 2014, 05:33:26 PM
I thought several devs were quoted saying CoH was MUCH more profitable under F2P than subscription?

I know for a fact Positron said this at one point.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 24, 2014, 05:54:50 PM
There is NO PROOF that CoH Freedom was more profitable BECAUSE of free players... it was simply more profitable. I offer this reasoning:


VIP players made it more profitable... I know I did. I gave myself an allowance of "only" $50 a month to spend on the Paragon Market every month...guess who was bad and over spent most months.. Yep.. Me LOL! I figured it out right after the announcement that my CoH budget went from $45 a month (I had three accounts) to $120 a month. CURSE YOU PARAGON MARKET! :) So do I think it was the freebies bringing the majority of new funds into the game... No I think it was a lot of VIPs wanting more... more.. more :)


Regarding the Premium and VIPs in my proposed plans for the return of CoH1 and bonuses for CoH2.
Let's say "only" 20,000 players come back (Where do I get that number from??? Well CoH1 is a 10 year old game that is going to be stuck in maintenance mode... it doesn't have the star power it once had. I wouldn't be surprised if many ex players have given up on MMOs or that they will be excited...but wait for CoH2.


So 20,000 players... Now let's say this entire deal costs 2 million. I think that's a fair price. So let's look at how this will work:


20,000 players... at $9.99 a month will take 10 months to pay off the PURCHASE cost...this does not include servers...staff..etc. So let's round that up to an even year to call everything paid off WOOHOO!
So 1 year of players...just to break even.


Now let's say HALF of those returning players are VIP... so they are paying $5 more a month...which goes towards CoH2... that's only $600,000... which will not buy you much towards development when you consider staff, computers, an office, etc... Well Poop.


So now we move into year 2 (I am giving them 2.5 years from relaunch of CoH1 to launch of CoH2...which is a tight schedule).
Year 2 allows more sub money to be funneled into CoH2 ... since now we are just maintaining CoH1 and have paid of the purchase price etc.


So yes... it makes complete sense to offer incentives to people who for a year support CoH2 with an extra $5 in their sub..and yes it makes sense to give them even more incentive to continue to do so to help fund CoH2.


Two things to think about:


1. Had CoH never closed... and you wanted to be VIP... there is NO change in the  amount you will be spending on your subscription, but a lot to be gained when CoH2 comes.


2, The financial differences over a 2.5 year period:
Premium cost: $299.70
VIP cost: $449.70


$150 more over the course of 2.5 years... $60 per year more. That's 2 nights at a movie btw :) ALSO - There will be no NEED to save for CoH2 if you are VIP from relaunch of CoH1 because you are getting a FREE copy of CoH2.


I think it important to not think about "ohhh they are getting this or that" and focus more on... "Oh I am helping support a game I love...and a game that I will love."
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 24, 2014, 06:44:00 PM
^^^This.

As I said I think it's perfectly fair for people paying over and above to get perks in CoH2 since they are funding the development of it.

If CoH is in maintenance mode at I24 from relaunch, other than server and maintenance cost, where do you think the money is going?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Apex Viper on July 24, 2014, 07:26:31 PM
This may sound odd or stupid, but here goes.

Do you remember standing in WW, and having a miscellaneous "bot" offering influence at a price? I'm sure you do and I'm sure that company selling the influence made a killing. Maybe this is something they, the new owners or dev team, should do instead of letting these outside non-affiliated companies take money away from the game. Lets say a billion influence is $8.00, and each billion after that the rate drops a little, with a max amount of 20 billion for $120.00. Many of the returning vets will want their maxed out all purple slotted level 50s back ASAP. Using the number that Burnt Toast used of 20,000 returning players, lets say half use this option and buy 20 billion each.  That's $1.2 MILLION generated. Now, I'm sure most of, if not all, returning Vets will be VIP or have subscribed accounts at the normal $15 per month. That's another $300,000, if all 20,000 Vets subscribe. Adding in the purchase of the "new" returning game at $65.00 each (this seems to be the average cost of a new game at any retailer). That's $1.3 MILLION. That makes $2.8 MILLION in revenue, not counting the purchase of power packs/costume booster packs. Granted those numbers would "float" each month as not as many people would need 20 billion influence plus what they earn via game play.     
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 24, 2014, 07:52:47 PM
This may sound odd or stupid, but here goes.

Do you remember standing in WW, and having a miscellaneous "bot" offering influence at a price? I'm sure you do and I'm sure that company selling the influence made a killing. Maybe this is something they, the new owners or dev team, should do instead of letting these outside non-affiliated companies take money away from the game. Lets say a billion influence is $8.00, and each billion after that the rate drops a little, with a max amount of 20 billion for $120.00. Many of the returning vets will want their maxed out all purple slotted level 50s back ASAP. Using the number that Burnt Toast used of 20,000 returning players, lets say half use this option and buy 20 billion each.  That's $1.2 MILLION generated. Now, I'm sure most of, if not all, returning Vets will be VIP or have subscribed accounts at the normal $15 per month. That's another $300,000, if all 20,000 Vets subscribe. Adding in the purchase of the "new" returning game at $65.00 each (this seems to be the average cost of a new game at any retailer). That's $1.3 MILLION. That makes $2.8 MILLION in revenue, not counting the purchase of power packs/costume booster packs. Granted those numbers would "float" each month as not as many people would need 20 billion influence plus what they earn via game play.     

Desperate for the prices to rise in the market? This is a great way to inflate the price without increasing purchasing power.

First, there will be no purples for them to buy until they drop so they won't have anything to spend the inf they just bought on.

If inf is easily bought, then bids for the most desirable items will all be exceptionally high, probably near the cap.

Also this puts player who just play at a significant disadvantage. Their inf earning rate didn't change but you just made everything inflated in price.


Pumping in extra cash without increasing base supply is a terrible idea.


A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Myrmydon on July 24, 2014, 08:40:39 PM
If the new Devs are able to start up the store again and turn on the Store-bought enhancements, they'll likely make back a great deal of their cost quickly. I'm sure most of us wouldn't mind paying for enhancements to get things rolling from scratch.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JaguarX on July 24, 2014, 10:00:11 PM


A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.

yeah I proposed that on the CoT site a while back but it was said to will end up being the CAUSE of inflation. Despite that hyperinflation happened as is in COH/COV without it and gave rise to the inf. bots selling inf. so people can afford tot buy the good stuff off the market anytime soon without resorting to farming and or hoping they are fortunate enough to get a good drop to flip. Looks like the census was there is not way to control hyperinflation on a market and any attempts to do so will be labeled as the cause of inflation and thus should not be tried. Guess there is only room on the hill for only one cause of hyperinflation.

*shrugs*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 24, 2014, 11:04:34 PM
As I have said before regarding enhancements:


In the paragon market I would like to see ALL the previous enhancements offered at a SERIOUSLY reduced rate (Think 20%) as well as the sale of Alignment Merits at a VERY reasonable price. This will allow for an influx of enhancements in the beginning which will help stimulate the economy. Both the Revival Edition and the Revival Deluxe Edition would award your first 10 toons X amount of reward merits (9,999 seems like a fair number to me) this will allow for players to buy recipes to start the market off as well as their toons.

I feel we need to stimulate the economy and supply as much as possible after the relaunch of CoH1...and think deeply discounted enhancements on the Paragon Market as well as the bonus merits offered to the 2 versions of CoH: Revival ... will greatly increase the supply. There is going to be hyper inflated prices in the beginning no matter what we do... remember when WentWorths opened and so did the costume piece drops? I bought a pair of fairy wings for a friend because she wanted them so bad... I paid... 20 million. Before the announcement of closure came...people deleted those recipes because you couldn't even get 100 inf for them. When CoH1 starts back up...it will definitely be a seller's market, but just wait 3 or 4 months and prices will have stabilized.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 25, 2014, 01:11:58 AM
yeah I proposed that on the CoT site a while back but it was said to will end up being the CAUSE of inflation. Despite that hyperinflation happened as is in COH/COV without it and gave rise to the inf. bots selling inf. so people can afford tot buy the good stuff off the market anytime soon without resorting to farming and or hoping they are fortunate enough to get a good drop to flip. Looks like the census was there is not way to control hyperinflation on a market and any attempts to do so will be labeled as the cause of inflation and thus should not be tried. Guess there is only room on the hill for only one cause of hyperinflation.

*shrugs*
If you make them character bound and not tradeable they can't end up on the market.

I do agree that inflation in the market is inevitable for a number of reasons but starting that way is a bad idea. Overtime people will have inf and be able to deal.

I would prefer that it not be done at all but if the playerbase and the dev's want to change real world money for purples then  character bound (first toon who claims it from email) is the least damaging in my opinion.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Lava-Lad on July 25, 2014, 02:56:11 AM
I hated those "1M inf, 8USD.  All best gold from goldfarmers.com" bots (and the inflation they helped create), but the idea of selling the purps for cash to help support the purchase of the game under the condition of making them untradeable seems like a good solution to 3 problems 1) black market resellers, 2) inability to "get back to normal" in a timely manner and 3) a plan for the investors/developers to recoup their investment in a timely manner.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on July 25, 2014, 02:58:54 AM
Desperate for the prices to rise in the market? This is a great way to inflate the price without increasing purchasing power.

First, there will be no purples for them to buy until they drop so they won't have anything to spend the inf they just bought on.

If inf is easily bought, then bids for the most desirable items will all be exceptionally high, probably near the cap.

Also this puts player who just play at a significant disadvantage. Their inf earning rate didn't change but you just made everything inflated in price.


Pumping in extra cash without increasing base supply is a terrible idea.


A better idea is to just sell the purples in the cash store, make them character bound and let people bypass the hyperinflation you propose.

Amen that is why Blizzard killed the cash shop in Diablo III it about killed the game (along with some other things)  in fact more people spent time bidding on items then playing the game. It was a disaster and they shut it down in March. Character or account bound imo but you nailed the biggest issue in your post.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Charged Mastermind on July 25, 2014, 03:49:18 AM
If we don't get user data back, here's what I think should happen and why...

1) All powers unlocked. Not necessarily all classes, but all powers unlocked that would require purchase from the Market (like Kinetic Melee and such). If this doesn't work out, perhaps we can have the choice of one or two free powers to get from the Paragon Market.
2) At least have City of Villains have a bundle. You don't really need Going Rogue unless if it is for incarnate stuff (after some browsing on the Wiki). This gives us access to both Hero and Villain Archetypes
3) MAYBE 1 Character Boost to 50. I am iffy on this because new players would have the ability to instantly level to 50 and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. You should not make it refundable so people can't level up to 50, figure out what they have to do, and then make another one.
4) All SG Base Props unlocked. This would give SG's the ability to fully rebuild their base or give new players the ability to mess around with them. OR, they want some ideas, create a Sandbox mode where all items are free and people can mess around with their base but you can't set it as your full base, and only a certain number of people can be in it at a time.
5) All character creator items unlocked. Not including costumes that are currently in i24.
6) SOME Paragon Points for the Market. This is assuming we don't get my first wish granted.


Frankly that is all that I can think of. I felt a little needy writing this but maybe some of you can agree (or disagree)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JaguarX on July 25, 2014, 04:54:34 AM
If you make them character bound and not tradeable they can't end up on the market.

I do agree that inflation in the market is inevitable for a number of reasons but starting that way is a bad idea. Overtime people will have inf and be able to deal.

I would prefer that it not be done at all but if the playerbase and the dev's want to change real world money for purples then  character bound (first toon who claims it from email) is the least damaging in my opinion.

indeed. that is what i say.

And yep,  Lava-Lad.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Waffles on July 25, 2014, 05:04:31 PM
Would it be too much to ask for 24/7 ski chalet access? :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 25, 2014, 05:40:31 PM

On top of that I would also like to see the Summer event live. I need to get me some of those Overwhelming Force IO sets :)

Would it be too much to ask for 24/7 ski chalet access? :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 25, 2014, 06:16:32 PM
I could easily see a month long welcome home with rotating events and alternating Double XP weekends. That would be a lot of fun and help characters get leveled quickly as well.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DarkCurrent on July 25, 2014, 07:08:45 PM
I may be the only one who thinks this, but I hope that if the game does get restarted they don't fire up a bunch of 2x xp weeks and toss everyone lvl 50s (unless we get user data back).  If there's just an orgy of loot, farming, AE teams, DFB lfm!!!, etc. then I think people would just get burned out in a couple weeks.

I'd rather just have the game on and team with folks happy to be back and get their xp the old-fashioned way.  It'd be cool to start fresh and run with I24 the 'we fixt everything' backbone.  At least for the first few weeks.

Then, once the honeymoon fervor starts to die down you unload your 2x xp, rikti invasions, summer blockbusters, ToTing, etc (one per week) to carry things through for a few more months.  Hopefully, by then there'll be some news released that gets people fired up for more.

I feel that if a 2nd chance is granted, we should be in it for the long haul:  CoX2 that might be a couple years away.  Not just blowing our loads on trying to purple out our WS by the end of day one.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 25, 2014, 07:11:10 PM
I may be the only one who thinks this, but I hope that if the game does get restarted they don't fire up a bunch of 2x xp weeks and toss everyone lvl 50s (unless we get user data back).  If there's just an orgy of loot, farming, AE teams, DFB lfm!!!, etc. then I think people would just get burned out in a couple weeks.

I'd rather just have the game on and team with folks happy to be back and get their xp the old-fashioned way.  It'd be cool to start fresh and run with I24 the 'we fixt everything' backbone.  At least for the first few weeks.

Then, once the honeymoon fervor starts to die down you unload your 2x xp, rikti invasions, summer blockbusters, ToTing, etc (one per week) to carry things through for a few more months.  Hopefully, by then there'll be some news released that gets people fired up for more.

I feel that if a 2nd chance is granted, we should be in it for the long haul:  CoX2 that might be a couple years away.  Not just blowing our loads on trying to purple out our WS by the end of day one.


I'd be fine with as well. Really just want to play.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ohioknight on July 25, 2014, 08:13:56 PM
I hated those "1M inf, 8USD.  All best gold from goldfarmers.com" bots (and the inflation they helped create)...

Were those actually for real?  How the heck did they work? -- I just assumed it was a universal spam-scam

(not that I would have cared either way -- they just annoyed me like all spamming, but I neither care if people buy inf or don't -- I wasn't interested and wouldn't be)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on July 26, 2014, 07:10:29 AM

I was shocked when a friend told me they purchased inf and a power level through one of those services. I asked him if he felt comfortable giving them his credit card...to which he told me he didn't...that it was done through paypal. I found that interesting because the main reason I heard on the boards for not doing it was because they would steal your credit card info etc...


Apparently he had used them for years and just never told anyone. I did some further researching and actually knew quite a few people who used them (most people used them for just inf). $5 for 1000 million (which I find funny they called it that instead of 1 billion hehe)....

Were those actually for real?  How the heck did they work? -- I just assumed it was a universal spam-scam

(not that I would have cared either way -- they just annoyed me like all spamming, but I neither care if people buy inf or don't -- I wasn't interested and wouldn't be)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Apex Viper on July 26, 2014, 08:19:36 AM
I was shocked when a friend told me they purchased inf and a power level through one of those services. I asked him if he felt comfortable giving them his credit card...to which he told me he didn't...that it was done through paypal. I found that interesting because the main reason I heard on the boards for not doing it was because they would steal your credit card info etc...


Apparently he had used them for years and just never told anyone. I did some further researching and actually knew quite a few people who used them (most people used them for just inf). $5 for 1000 million (which I find funny they called it that instead of 1 billion hehe)....

Personally, I never used them either. I earned every influence or level 50 I ever had and I had many. I know MANY who did, including several high ranking SG's....I assume they bought influence and converted it to prestige. When I brought up this topic earlier on, I was merely thinking of away to add revenue for the development/profit of CoH and/or CoH2.  Many people just throw money to this type of quick leveling or quick influence....I view this no different than that of the AE Farmers for Hire. Anyway, my point was why not let the game reap the bounty? As far as the inflation in the market place, that will happen regardless. Too many people play the market just to set the prices of IO's or salvage high to pay for their builds. I was told of this by a former SG leader. He would place something on the market, take an alt account and re-buy it for say 999,999,999. Afterward he would re-list it for the same amount.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Myrmydon on July 26, 2014, 12:52:03 PM
I was shocked when a friend told me they purchased inf and a power level through one of those services. I asked him if he felt comfortable giving them his credit card...to which he told me he didn't...that it was done through paypal. I found that interesting because the main reason I heard on the boards for not doing it was because they would steal your credit card info etc...


Apparently he had used them for years and just never told anyone. I did some further researching and actually knew quite a few people who used them (most people used them for just inf). $5 for 1000 million (which I find funny they called it that instead of 1 billion hehe)....

In the Freedom closed beta, I used them in an example of how the Devs should activate all SBOs at launch so that they could grab some of the money spent on that and was quickly modded for it. While I deplore using those sites, I definitely see it as a convenience for people that can't stand farming and such. I would have much rather seen Paragon make the money than some farming site.
Personally, I never used them either. I earned every influence or level 50 I ever had and I had many. I know MANY who did, including several high ranking SG's....I assume they bought influence and converted it to prestige. When I brought up this topic earlier on, I was merely thinking of away to add revenue for the development/profit of CoH and/or CoH2.  Many people just throw money to this type of quick leveling or quick influence....I view this no different than that of the AE Farmers for Hire. Anyway, my point was why not let the game reap the bounty? As far as the inflation in the market place, that will happen regardless. Too many people play the market just to set the prices of IO's or salvage high to pay for their builds. I was told of this by a former SG leader. He would place something on the market, take an alt account and re-buy it for say 999,999,999. Afterward he would re-list it for the same amount.
In the PM I was told that, while the mod agreed with me on the principle, I wasn't allowed to make reference to the idea of using gold farming sites in the forums. It was one of the more entertaining modding a that I received over the years. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: ukaserex on July 26, 2014, 02:16:23 PM
CoX Legacy:

1. Subscription, to fund further efforts and pay the new developers for work on that game.

2. The subscription should include all the bells and whistles, except things you get by unlocking; that stuff should stay the same. The bells and whistles soften the blow given when people's old alts were consigned forever to the dustbin of gaming history. Which, right now, I would guess is 90% probability of what's going to happen.

SoAs and Kheldians should be included in this, definitely.

3. At least ten character slots open at launch, with the option to buy more.

4. I would like the option to buy a disk or disks, I know a lot of people like Steam but I despise my computer being monitored by an outside party. I would happily pay for these disks, just like I did all my CoX disks.
Then while all this goes on and people are happily reunited with their alts, CoX 2 goes into production.

Personally, I don't think I know or remember what "Steam" is, but will do a search and try finding out about it. My gut says I'd rather have an installation disk than have to download from any site, let alone some third party.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Waffles on July 26, 2014, 02:34:36 PM
At the risk of going slightly off topic, has it been estimated how long it would take the game to go live, if the image/whatever NCsoft says they have had to be reverse engineered to get everything out?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 26, 2014, 08:22:01 PM
At the risk of going slightly off topic, has it been estimated how long it would take the game to go live, if the image/whatever NCsoft says they have had to be reverse engineered to get everything out?
Some of the Save COH threads say as little as six to eight months, though honestly I'd look for it to be closer to 14 to line up bandwidth and server hardware.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on July 26, 2014, 09:29:58 PM
Personally, I never used them either. I earned every influence or level 50 I ever had and I had many. I know MANY who did, including several high ranking SG's....I assume they bought influence and converted it to prestige. When I brought up this topic earlier on, I was merely thinking of away to add revenue for the development/profit of CoH and/or CoH2.  Many people just throw money to this type of quick leveling or quick influence....I view this no different than that of the AE Farmers for Hire. Anyway, my point was why not let the game reap the bounty? As far as the inflation in the market place, that will happen regardless. Too many people play the market just to set the prices of IO's or salvage high to pay for their builds. I was told of this by a former SG leader. He would place something on the market, take an alt account and re-buy it for say 999,999,999. Afterward he would re-list it for the same amount.

Well, he may have been trying to keep the price where he wanted it but he was also actually reducing inflation. The market fees that he paid were one of the few things that actually removed inf from the game. The same with prestige conversion. That was inf that was removed from the system. Thus reducing the supply of inf.

You are also forgetting that there were many changes introduced late in the game that lowered the prices on purples and PvP IO's. Alignment merits and IO converters really increased supply and lowered prices overall. There were many ways to get the good stuff without marketing or RMT douches. I would also remind that it was against the TOS and could get you permanently banned if discovered.

The market will always tend toward inflation because there is no cost of production associated with inf and almost nothing to spend it on. But there is no good reason to help it along. Besides, why not let them buy the purples from the store? It does the same thing you want without increasing inf.

Until you can show me what benefit it offers over just selling them in the store and making them account bound, it will remain a terrible idea to me.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 26, 2014, 09:32:18 PM
 I didnt get burned out in 8 years of constant play... They could throw EVERYTHING at me and I wouldnt get burned out..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Lava-Lad on July 29, 2014, 02:19:46 AM
I didnt get burned out in 8 years of constant play... They could throw EVERYTHING at me and I wouldnt get burned out..
;D AGREED ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Blackshear on July 29, 2014, 10:15:20 AM
What if this?  No problem, I'll start from 1.  I enjoyed the gameplay and would have fun leveling up my signature toons along with some new faces.  I do hope they'll dole out some vet rewards early if possible...Sands of Mu was always a handy ability to give my beginners a little leg up.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Eoraptor on July 29, 2014, 04:33:45 PM
Indeed, one of my favourite story arcs was spunky lil twinshot and the shining stars
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Shifter on July 29, 2014, 07:47:03 PM
I'd prefer they not think about this at all and just focus on getting the game back up and running to be honest.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: therain93 on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 PM
There is NO PROOF that CoH Freedom was more profitable BECAUSE of free players... it was simply more profitable. I offer this reasoning:


VIP players made it more profitable... I know I did. I gave myself an allowance of "only" $50 a month to spend on the Paragon Market every month...guess who was bad and over spent most months.. Yep.. Me LOL! I figured it out right after the announcement that my CoH budget went from $45 a month (I had three accounts) to $120 a month. CURSE YOU PARAGON MARKET! :) So do I think it was the freebies bringing the majority of new funds into the game... No I think it was a lot of VIPs wanting more... more.. more :)


Regarding the Premium and VIPs in my proposed plans for the return of CoH1 and bonuses for CoH2.
Let's say "only" 20,000 players come back (Where do I get that number from??? Well CoH1 is a 10 year old game that is going to be stuck in maintenance mode... it doesn't have the star power it once had. I wouldn't be surprised if many ex players have given up on MMOs or that they will be excited...but wait for CoH2.


So 20,000 players... Now let's say this entire deal costs 2 million. I think that's a fair price. So let's look at how this will work:


20,000 players... at $9.99 a month will take 10 months to pay off the PURCHASE cost...this does not include servers...staff..etc. So let's round that up to an even year to call everything paid off WOOHOO!
So 1 year of players...just to break even.


Now let's say HALF of those returning players are VIP... so they are paying $5 more a month...which goes towards CoH2... that's only $600,000... which will not buy you much towards development when you consider staff, computers, an office, etc... Well Poop.


So now we move into year 2 (I am giving them 2.5 years from relaunch of CoH1 to launch of CoH2...which is a tight schedule).
Year 2 allows more sub money to be funneled into CoH2 ... since now we are just maintaining CoH1 and have paid of the purchase price etc.


So yes... it makes complete sense to offer incentives to people who for a year support CoH2 with an extra $5 in their sub..and yes it makes sense to give them even more incentive to continue to do so to help fund CoH2.


Two things to think about:


1. Had CoH never closed... and you wanted to be VIP... there is NO change in the  amount you will be spending on your subscription, but a lot to be gained when CoH2 comes.


2, The financial differences over a 2.5 year period:
Premium cost: $299.70
VIP cost: $449.70


$150 more over the course of 2.5 years... $60 per year more. That's 2 nights at a movie btw :) ALSO - There will be no NEED to save for CoH2 if you are VIP from relaunch of CoH1 because you are getting a FREE copy of CoH2.


I think it important to not think about "ohhh they are getting this or that" and focus more on... "Oh I am helping support a game I love...and a game that I will love."

Just to throw a comment out there --

Although the statement is true that "There is NO PROOF that CoH Freedom was more profitable BECAUSE of free players", the reality is that free players gave paying players more people to play with.  More people to play with gave more reason to keep paying, if you are so inclined, as many of us were.....
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on August 21, 2014, 05:08:52 PM

I never knew any free players.... except a few run ins with people wanting to do itrials that were not VIP. Of my core group of friends (about 10 of us)...I do know we all spent a lot of extra cash on perks (enhancement slots...costume pieces...power sets...etc). I also do not know any of my old friends (most of whom I kept on my globals) that returned once Freedom launched :( I really thought a few of them might resurface... but not one did :( I also never met anyone new who went from freebie to VIP.... this is just my experience obviously.... I am not a fan of the free to play model... I am a fan of limited trials and/or reduced subs akin to my proposal for Premium players once the relaunch happens. Heck I am even ok with the premium cost being $5 a month....but I truly feel all players should pay some type of subscription fee...even in "maintenance mode" while we wait for CoH2.

Just to throw a comment out there --

Although the statement is true that "There is NO PROOF that CoH Freedom was more profitable BECAUSE of free players", the reality is that free players gave paying players more people to play with.  More people to play with gave more reason to keep paying, if you are so inclined, as many of us were.....
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Super Firebug on August 21, 2014, 06:14:17 PM
I didnt get burned out in 8 years of constant play... They could throw EVERYTHING at me and I wouldnt get burned out..

I did. There was about a two-month period when I didn't play, because I had gotten to the point where the game just seemed like an endless string of "Go to point A, and beat people up; go to point B, and beat people up; go to point C, and beat people up; etc." I'm looking forward to CoH's return, but I wish these games had more depth than just the combat. It'd be nice to be able to help citizens caught in disasters, or pull them out of burning or collapsed buildings, or something.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ankhammon on August 21, 2014, 06:42:13 PM
I did. There was about a two-month period when I didn't play, because I had gotten to the point where the game just seemed like an endless string of "Go to point A, and beat people up; go to point B, and beat people up; go to point C, and beat people up; etc." I'm looking forward to CoH's return, but I wish these games had more depth than just the combat. It'd be nice to be able to help citizens caught in disasters, or pull them out of burning or collapsed buildings, or something.

I have to admit, I got burnt out a few times over the years. I went and tried a couple different games and within a week or two would be back at CoH.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: energizingion on August 21, 2014, 07:47:58 PM
I did. There was about a two-month period when I didn't play, because I had gotten to the point where the game just seemed like an endless string of "Go to point A, and beat people up; go to point B, and beat people up; go to point C, and beat people up; etc." I'm looking forward to CoH's return, but I wish these games had more depth than just the combat. It'd be nice to be able to help citizens caught in disasters, or pull them out of burning or collapsed buildings, or something.

Agreed.  There was a good stint of 6 or more months (in a row) where I was getting tired of logging in and playing.  I think it was during the "height" of AE farming.  When I logged in, there was either not a lot of my sgmates on or if they were on, they were already engaged in a tf/sf/itrial, on for only a few minutes or AE farming.  Of course most others were just AE farming.  I don't mind some AE farming but it did bore me to death after the second or third run (depending on which farm).

I mainly logged in for the social aspect...

Then more and more new powersets were coming out and what not, so it was fun playing the game with new sets.  :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Blackshear on August 21, 2014, 09:47:17 PM
If it means getting the game back, I'll start with nothing...however, I'd at least like to have Sands of Mu available from the get-go.  I get a lot of mileage out of that power at low levels.

Really, though, if we all have to reboot giving us a nice package of various vet rewards from the get-go would be a good idea.  How about two years' worth to mark the time since the game went down?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Golden Girl on August 21, 2014, 09:50:00 PM
I did. There was about a two-month period when I didn't play, because I had gotten to the point where the game just seemed like an endless string of "Go to point A, and beat people up; go to point B, and beat people up; go to point C, and beat people up; etc." I'm looking forward to CoH's return, but I wish these games had more depth than just the combat. It'd be nice to be able to help citizens caught in disasters, or pull them out of burning or collapsed buildings, or something.

That problem was noted a while ago when we started designing HaV ;)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nealix on August 21, 2014, 10:56:59 PM
Save the plane falling from the sky!  That would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on August 21, 2014, 11:34:06 PM
I think all of those are cool ideas.  Although, and this is just a guess, I could see them not adding too much of those things because people might stop doing them.  How often did people put out the fires in steel canyon after doing it once?  Or I think of single player sandbox games.  Where you have a side mission of lets say........saving civilians from falling trash after a plane full of garbage explodes.  It would be really fun the first few times.  But after awhile people would stop doing it.  That is what I have noticed with public events in MMO's and world events in single player games.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on August 22, 2014, 11:51:27 AM
Pretty late to the ball game here, busy work week. All the bogus RL stuff aside so far it seems re-leveling is a none issue. As far as vet rewards go I think a premium pack is an excellent idea, even if it somewhat costly those of us who played from open beta till end know that it is a minor investment all things considered. Please for the love of god offer some sort of name saver special I would pay out the you know what to have my old favorite name back...

If there is anyway you can implement a feature allowing us to re-use names we already hold I'm sure the whole naming fiasco would be much more limited than what happened originally. I dread having to throw an "agent" or "operative" in front of a name I already have again. I'll do it, I swear I'll do it, I just would love not to ;). 

The more I think about the entire community actually starting from scratch the more excited I get. I miss the days where people accepted one another. The whole clique mentality would be revived instantly if you offered lvl 50's off the bat leaving new players lost and confused and possibly without guidance. If we all start to rise again I think we'll have a much friendlier and informed community/fan base.  Plus GALAXY PARK WILL BE COOL AGAIN! God I miss that being the main RP spot...

Anywho one last final thought, please allow us to reserve names -before- the game is released. Just one. That way the people who do connect first and go on a name saving binge won't totally ruin the parade. I realize this kind of ties into the other name stuff but we all know how crucial names are to our heroes/villains. Nobody wants XxBat_ManxX18939 it really ruins the feel/desire to continue playing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on August 22, 2014, 03:27:17 PM
Save the plane falling from the sky!  That would be pretty cool.

This kind of stuff would be awesome.  8)

I so much enjoyed putting out fires. Very heroic. Oh yeah, there was combat but for me it was kinda secondary to putting out the fires.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ankhammon on August 22, 2014, 03:53:25 PM
Pretty late to the ball game here, busy work week. All the bogus RL stuff aside so far it seems re-leveling is a none issue. As far as vet rewards go I think a premium pack is an excellent idea, even if it somewhat costly those of us who played from open beta till end know that it is a minor investment all things considered. Please for the love of god offer some sort of name saver special I would pay out the you know what to have my old favorite name back...

If there is anyway you can implement a feature allowing us to re-use names we already hold I'm sure the whole naming fiasco would be much more limited than what happened originally. I dread having to throw an "agent" or "operative" in front of a name I already have again. I'll do it, I swear I'll do it, I just would love not to ;). 

The more I think about the entire community actually starting from scratch the more excited I get. I miss the days where people accepted one another. The whole clique mentality would be revived instantly if you offered lvl 50's off the bat leaving new players lost and confused and possibly without guidance. If we all start to rise again I think we'll have a much friendlier and informed community/fan base.  Plus GALAXY PARK WILL BE COOL AGAIN! God I miss that being the main RP spot...

Anywho one last final thought, please allow us to reserve names -before- the game is released. Just one. That way the people who do connect first and go on a name saving binge won't totally ruin the parade. I realize this kind of ties into the other name stuff but we all know how crucial names are to our heroes/villains. Nobody wants XxBat_ManxX18939 it really ruins the feel/desire to continue playing.

First, let me state that I almost always play heroes.

Why is my first impulse, on reading this, to make sure I'm first in line for the game and steal all the major player names I can get? Holding them ransom until the player can provide me with a purple set or two. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on August 22, 2014, 05:58:27 PM

I have the perfect name... you better not steal it...


W0lv3r1n3


HANDS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 :P

First, let me state that I almost always play heroes.

Why is my first impulse, on reading this, to make sure I'm first in line for the game and steal all the major player names I can get? Holding them ransom until the player can provide me with a purple set or two. :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ankhammon on August 23, 2014, 12:09:22 AM
I have the perfect name... you better not steal it...


W0lv3r1n3


HANDS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 :P

lmao. I presume  he had the burnt toast colored uniform from the 80s.

I was actually rummaging through my old names and I only had maybe a dozen that were decent. I made a lot of characters with crappy names.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Gatecrasher on August 23, 2014, 03:33:22 AM
lmao. I presume  he had the burnt toast colored uniform from the 80s.

I was actually rummaging through my old names and I only had maybe a dozen that were decent. I made a lot of characters with crappy names.

I will say that the silver lining to that was that sometimes the search for a name that wasn't taken led me to names a heck of a lot better than the one I'd been so excited for int he first place.  Exhibit A is my Electric Brute; if I'd left it at, well whatever it was I was gonna go with (that was taken), I wouldn't have found my way to OhmWrecker.  :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on August 23, 2014, 11:42:03 AM
When this finally does happen, cause it will or I will lose all faith in humanity, you will see an ohm wrecker running by you. I want you to know, it will be me. ;) jk honestly though it is a great fit. I guarantee you the friends of the people affiliated with this purchase will somehow get first dibs on quite a few one word names, which are my favorite. I pray it's not mine but am willing to bow my head in sadness for the tenth of a second it takes me to recover and realize I'm actually playing CoX again.

I really do believe allowing the multiple characters on one account having the same name will save our lovely community a lot of grief. I know for a fact pvp'rs would only be using one the majority of the time. Rp'rs could even do so with the right concept/back story, which would open up a lot of new ideas that previously were rather difficult to pull off without the help of some farming friends. Anyway days off now woohoo!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on August 23, 2014, 07:50:43 PM
If we start with no user data one of the first characters i will create will be Action Protagonist with the battlecry "I solve all my problems with violence!"
And at least a dozen other character concepts, most of them a bit more serious, like recreating Fumarole Pixie (Earth/Storm Controller) whose battlecry was "I like volcanoes!"  ;D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on August 23, 2014, 09:36:58 PM
I find the hue and cry over names to be a bit ridiculous.  I didn't start until 2008.  I never had a problem finding a good name that fit my concept and was awesome on any of 100 plus characters. If you need help with a name or origin, PM me. I wrote quite a few for people who had a great idea and didn't know it.

If I can get my characters back, of course I want them. They represent years of effort and I loved them.
If I can't, then I'll remake them.

Also i have to say if you think making everyone starting from scratch will somehow restore CoH to some mythical non-existent state of purity and happy hand-holding sunshine parties, then you have  an astonishing lack of understanding of human nature. There will be level 50's within a week if not sooner. People who always played together will continue to do so. Griefers will grief. I can't imagine why anyone would expect a different outcome.

The only positive effect I see is that the low level salvage will be generated to refill the market.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on August 24, 2014, 12:53:50 PM
Starting in 2008 I can see why names were not a big part of your experience, not to be rude at all. Some of us though started this game with a name and literally played the entire time with said name, so you can imagine the attachment that happened overtime. It's not always about concept or fitting a certaint set of powers, it's about what you're known as to friends/the community. After seeing your name being typed out literally thousands of times by thousands of players, you begin to identify with this self proclaimed title. This gets to the point where you literally feel uncomfortable being called anything else. Now I realize that may be ridiculous but imagine if someone started calling you something other than your actual name out of no where simply because you changed something minor about your RL appearance, it would feel rather awkward.

Yes this game will not revert to sunshine and rainbows, but it is our chance to build the fair and balanced Eutopia this game could have easily been with the right guidance. After all the lessons learned by the long term players in our community I think it safe to say we will not be a stubborn pre-school teacher, we are more than willing to show how we came to these conclusions. Obviously people will fast-level, obviously there will griefers, gold farmers are kind of obsolete at this point (unless what I think is going to happen does, but at this point I don't really want to say what or who is behind it), that however does not mean the average everyday player will fall into these categories. It's up to us to provide proper introductions into this lovely universe, especially when there are so many vested interests in seeing it fail. People have spent years trying to build new games to replace this one, what's to stop those people from trying to ruin this great opportunity in order to become the ones who recieve profit. To me they are the most dangerous, although getting that to be admitted is an entirely different ball game.

Right now the positivity is at an all time high simply because people are excited to get back into the game they held so close to their hearts. I for one will be paying for just about everything I can in hopes to keep this game alive, so long as it isn't a pay to win scenario, I'm sure many other will be in the same boat.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Little David on August 24, 2014, 06:22:25 PM
With all due respect, Baja, people who started playing this game from 2008, or even later than that, can grow just as attached to the identities they created in CoH and the names that go with them. You don't need to be playing from 2004 just to develop that kind of attachment.

I know, because I'm pretty partial to the names of my guys as well, and I started playing CoH roughly around that time.

That said, I've always been bothered by the demands of yesteryear for regular "character name purges" and the like. Whenever a discussion like that popped up on the CoH forums, my input was to do things the same way Sega did for Phantasy Star Universe: allow duplicate names, make the global name the unique, important identifier.

Some people thought I was suggesting that CoH should ape Champions online and turn names into an e-mail address, but I actually wasn't suggesting that; Phantasy Star Universe didn't leave a user's Sega ID visible all the time. A user could make them pop up over characters with a button click, or by looking at the Partner Cards they exchanged with characters. They were also listed when looking for character rooms to visit.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ankhammon on August 24, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
I just had a random thought.

If we do start with no user data, how are you guys going to handle the SO to IO conversion?

We won't really have huge sums of inf. to go purchase all the IO placeholders we normally did (or get them from the vast stores we have in our bases). You won't be able to borrow them from another character you have. No transfer of funds either.

Will you farm on SOs until you have enough for basic IOs and then just work drops for the recipes?
Will you AE farm for tickets or find that one mish you can handle solo and farm there for drops?
Or will your first character be a total farmer so that you can build back up your fortune?

Do you PL and trade that for drops/tickets?

Do you try incarnate stuff before finishing IOing out your character?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: tinkb on August 24, 2014, 08:51:18 PM
I am just gonna be happy to have the game back, and to start over that's fine too it will be fun to start from level 1 again. always loved going thru the story modes,  i plan to stop all other games and just play COH again. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DarkCurrent on August 24, 2014, 09:56:31 PM
I just had a random thought.

If we do start with no user data, how are you guys going to handle the SO to IO conversion?

We won't really have huge sums of inf. to go purchase all the IO placeholders we normally did (or get them from the vast stores we have in our bases). You won't be able to borrow them from another character you have. No transfer of funds either.

Will you farm on SOs until you have enough for basic IOs and then just work drops for the recipes?
Will you AE farm for tickets or find that one mish you can handle solo and farm there for drops?
Or will your first character be a total farmer so that you can build back up your fortune?

Do you PL and trade that for drops/tickets?

Do you try incarnate stuff before finishing IOing out your character?

If no one has inf you'll have no way to make money from the market.  Selling drops to the vendors has a horrible return, so that would limit your inf building that way also.

That would leave either running missions and TFs, and not speed runs / DFBing over and over, to build up an inf pool.  But then you'd have to buy recipes from the crafting tables (pricey), and have only the salvage drops from foes.  Street sweeping could work all right as well.

I'd say the AE system with tickets would be a faster method for getting salvage and recipes you want though,

This makes me think an interesting way to relaunch the game would be to activate events like a rikti invasion or ToTing would be a good way to boost availability of infamy and drops.  Would get players excited and teaming like crazy rather than just running a farm.

It also gives the new dev team a way to make money without resorting to making people buy powersets and ATs and character slots.  They could sell xp and infamy boosters.  Also could sell the superbooster boxes like they were that have ATOs and stuff in them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Ankhammon on August 24, 2014, 11:46:10 PM
I do like the restart happening with a good old Rikti invasion or something. That sounds like a fun and appropriate way to restart the franchise.

My guess is it wouldn't take but a week or two for someone to start saying how they are over a mill inf. again. Making a Fire/Kin or a Claws/Elec and going to town on the PL. That's perfectly fine to me as it will start stocking the market with cash.

The rest of us get to a more normal leveling and by the time we get a purple drop or something we'll catch up pretty fast. I don't feel the need to be the first to a million/billion on a server. I get my kicks from playing less than well known combos and making something good out of them.

It's gonna take all types to get the game up and running again. I'm all for it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on August 25, 2014, 04:32:03 AM
Starting in 2008 ..snip...it would feel rather awkward.

I got attached my characters. I m just saying that if I didn't have THE name i wanted, it wasn't like it was the end of the world. There were so many variants that there will be one that will work. You just have to use some imagination.

Yes this game will not revert to sunshine and rainbows, but it is our chance to build the fair and balanced Eutopia this game could have easily been with the right guidance. 

No thanks. I don't want someone else's "guidance" to join the sunshine patrol. There is no one right way to play this game. Anyway, whose "guidance" is right?

But I'm not worried about this. I will give you a stealth proc when we get back in game if you can name one commercial MMO where this happened. It has not been that way since UO and I'll bet you (oh wait I did) that it isn't  happening in Wildstar either.

Besides, I think we will get our names back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on August 25, 2014, 01:57:30 PM
I just had a random thought.

If we do start with no user data, how are you guys going to handle the SO to IO conversion?

We won't really have huge sums of inf. to go purchase all the IO placeholders we normally did (or get them from the vast stores we have in our bases). You won't be able to borrow them from another character you have. No transfer of funds either.

Will you farm on SOs until you have enough for basic IOs and then just work drops for the recipes?
Will you AE farm for tickets or find that one mish you can handle solo and farm there for drops?
Or will your first character be a total farmer so that you can build back up your fortune?

Do you PL and trade that for drops/tickets?

Do you try incarnate stuff before finishing IOing out your character?

This is pretty darn easy first I will build and AOE scrapper that works fine on SO's and I will farm AE for bronze ticket while I level my primary scrapper and fill both in with tons of good sets just off Tickets. I have about 4 scrapper builds already layed out with IO builds. Which will replace some of my old builds that I retired.

Anyways if we get I24 I am thinking spines/Bio is going to be a fun ride for farming and just fun to play IO out
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on August 25, 2014, 05:19:15 PM
The more I think about the entire community actually starting from scratch the more excited I get. I miss the days where people accepted one another. The whole clique mentality would be revived instantly if you offered lvl 50's off the bat leaving new players lost and confused and possibly without guidance.

Cliques will be cliques whether they have characters or not. Most of those groups have ways of keeping in touch outside the game, so you'd see supergroups reforming on day 1 and powerleveling each other while rejecting "outsiders".

The only "positive" that a clean wipe would result in is that you'd have less players competing for names. A nonzero number of veterans will pass on a relaunch if it means losing everything, but you won't see anyone deciding not to play because they got their stuff back. Well, maybe that one guy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on August 25, 2014, 05:50:54 PM
That is why I always use obscure names when creating characters and sometimes use old legendary historical names because most people especially young people never heard off.

I would most likely lose one name on the reboot and I really do not care if I get back "Hypnosis". Then again that is just my personality
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Shifter on August 26, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
If we have a reboot, then I secretly hope they have just one server up on day one, and then add more as needed later. The epic idea of having all of the old players on a singe server at one time makes me smile. : )
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Talon Blue on August 26, 2014, 01:37:05 PM
The veteran rewards and costumes are really the only thing I want. I think now after so much time has past I'd personally want to start at lvl 1. If not recovering player data speeds up the return of CoH, I'm for it. The thing is I hope we aren't dicked over on the price, this is an old game and they cannot be charging us for it like it is a new one.

I'm trying not to get hopes up until I know CoH is in fact returning. I just don't want to be disappointed.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on August 26, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
I'm more concerned with my character names.  I can play/buy my way back to where I was if I have the names.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on August 26, 2014, 06:58:25 PM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on August 26, 2014, 07:16:02 PM
Name theft doesn't really concern me either, Burnt Toast.

But then again, I don't publish my names. lol

I understand the concern over a name. It is an identity, defines you.

I think locked into this discussion must be the worry over whether or not we get our old accounts back.
It would be nice, and it would solve the issue of who gets the name. But I'm not counting on it.

Here's to the team looking to acquire CoX and their success! *glug* *glug*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on August 26, 2014, 07:45:33 PM
Quote
Name theft doesn't really concern me either

My very first character I ever made was on my brothers account and it was just me hitting the random button a few times.  I felt Modnar was a good name, but it was taken! 

But I couldn't just leave my stupid looking character sitting there.  My spur of the moment character, needed a spur of the moment name.  And "Name Theft was born.

If anyone ever tried naming their character Name Theft on the justice server, and you couldn't that was me.  Had that name since shortly after the game launched  ;D  So who is going to commit name theft of Name Theft?

Irrelevant post you say?! Certainly.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Power Gamer on August 26, 2014, 08:12:33 PM
Taceus Jiwede, you are silly!

Do it again.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on August 27, 2014, 06:15:44 PM
Burnt Toast,

I agree with almost everything you said except for your regrettable lack of understanding of how awesome the names i picked for my characters were. I clearly was the NAME WINNER! I forgive your oversight as I am sure you acted in ignorance of my recognized awesomeness in alt-naming. Go forth and sin no more! I magnanimously forgive your slight because of my awesome awesomeness and my general proclivity for amity.


PS. You point is well taken that they may just be awesome to us but that is the only person they need to be awesome to. Like I have said before, if someone uses a name I like/want, I'll come up with another. No big deal.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: AlphaFerret on August 27, 2014, 06:49:19 PM
I'm not worried about losing any of my favorite character names.  I am sure many a PUG was in awe of my creations, and really just wanna pay homage to my awesome super hero abilities.
I would trade all my character names in exchange for the return of our game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: GamingGlen on August 27, 2014, 08:02:37 PM
*gak*
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on August 28, 2014, 09:06:14 PM
I don't know, maybe give nobody nothing.
Awww...no one made a joke about the double negative?   This means give everyone something!   8)

Some good ideas here.   I wouldn't mind giving loyal subscribers early access to CoH2.   As Devil pointed out, they are funding it after all.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on August 28, 2014, 09:26:31 PM
As I have said before regarding enhancements:


In the paragon market I would like to see ALL the previous enhancements offered at a SERIOUSLY reduced rate (Think 20%) as well as the sale of Alignment Merits at a VERY reasonable price. This will allow for an influx of enhancements in the beginning which will help stimulate the economy. Both the Revival Edition and the Revival Deluxe Edition would award your first 10 toons X amount of reward merits (9,999 seems like a fair number to me) this will allow for players to buy recipes to start the market off as well as their toons.

I feel we need to stimulate the economy and supply as much as possible after the relaunch of CoH1...and think deeply discounted enhancements on the Paragon Market as well as the bonus merits offered to the 2 versions of CoH: Revival ... will greatly increase the supply. There is going to be hyper inflated prices in the beginning no matter what we do... remember when WentWorths opened and so did the costume piece drops? I bought a pair of fairy wings for a friend because she wanted them so bad... I paid... 20 million. Before the announcement of closure came...people deleted those recipes because you couldn't even get 100 inf for them. When CoH1 starts back up...it will definitely be a seller's market, but just wait 3 or 4 months and prices will have stabilized.

The best thing about selling them is that you immediately create a supply to equal a demand.   The rule of market is supply and demand.   If there is more demand than supply, the price goes up.   The further out of balance this is, the higher the price gets.   Your fairy wings situation is a great example of this.   Once the supply exceeded demand, you couldn't give them away.

So immediately satisfying demand can only lower prices by this rule.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on August 28, 2014, 09:29:10 PM
Names.   Someone mentioned looking back through theirs and I just did the same thing.   I've got a few I'll want to reuse, but boy do I have some bad ones in there!

I still remember running into a guy with a weird spelling of a name that I had on one of my characters.   We started talking about it and he was loudly complaining that the name was taken.   I didn't have the heart to tell him it was me.    :-\
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on August 29, 2014, 11:24:59 PM
The best thing about selling them is that you immediately create a supply to equal a demand.   The rule of market is supply and demand.   If there is more demand than supply, the price goes up.   The further out of balance this is, the higher the price gets.   Your fairy wings situation is a great example of this.   Once the supply exceeded demand, you couldn't give them away.

So immediately satisfying demand can only lower prices by this rule.

Why is this better, in your view. than selling them in the cash store and locking them to account? If you just create supply by stocking the market and allowing the use of Inf to buy them then isn't that price fixing? You are essentially capping all drop values at that price meaning that you will never get more than the dev price for anything.

This is almost bad an idea as selling inf for money. (that one is still worse)

I would have thought by now that people would understand that mucking with price fixing and inflation actually makes the market worse, not better. There were and remain very good reasons the old Devs never did this despite it being requested almost constantly by people who hated or didn't understand how the market worked.

Really, all this is a way for you to get purples as quick as you can if you have to start from scratch without much thought to the long term effects. Just buy them in the cash store (I am sure it will be offered, especially if the data isn't recoverable. I still think we will get it back). It will ultimately repay the new devs quicker and all that without making the market more unstable than it already will be.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Phaetan on August 30, 2014, 02:43:17 PM
Most of my character names, I can cope with losing.

Except "Not a Nemesis Agent."  That one's mine!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on August 30, 2014, 03:25:16 PM
Burnt Toast,

I agree with almost everything you said except for your regrettable lack of understanding of how awesome the names i picked for my characters were. I clearly was the NAME WINNER! I forgive your oversight as I am sure you acted in ignorance of my recognized awesomeness in alt-naming. Go forth and sin no more! I magnanimously forgive your slight because of my awesome awesomeness and my general proclivity for amity.


PS. You point is well taken that they may just be awesome to us but that is the only person they need to be awesome to. Like I have said before, if someone uses a name I like/want, I'll come up with another. No big deal.

So it's pretty clear some people care way more about names than others. Like I said in a previous post I won't stop playing all together because I didn't get the name I want, I would just PREFER (please notice the capitalized word) to get the one that I've played with for so long. If user data is restored, which I doubt it will due to security issues, I'll have literally no worries at all. If it isn't though I'd really ENJOY the ability to reserve at least ONE name so that I can go spend my countless hours without feeling like I'm missing a huge part of my characters persona. 

Obviously people can play with satirical names, or not care at all what their name is, I'm honestly not one of those people. So alls I'm saying is if there is the capability to offer a name reservation myself and MANY others would be extremely happy.

Considering there was literally a thread that grew to be 500+pages long probably over 1000 dedicated to finding a name that fits their characters. I think it's safe to say a vast portion of the community like having a name that suits their characters abilities/style.

Everyone is so concerned over their names... and personally I think for very little reason....

I will tell you the name I wanted for my main toon back when CoH was alive.... Burnt Reynolds (Get it.. a play on Burt Reynolds)... Anyways... guess what... someone had that name... #$%*$%*#!!!!!! (That's me swearing). Ooooh I know.... Burnt Ward... taken. Burnt Bacharach....taken. Wait for it... Burnt Ernie...taken.. ARE YOU FU****G KIDDING ME!?!?! Yeah that's what I was thinking too.


So while I was logged in the character creation screen and growing ever so hateful of my fellow CoH players who had taken every fricking Burt name and turned it into Burnt... I decided to make me some breakfast.... toast and hot cocoa MMMM. So I have a toaster oven and not a toaster (I like it better than a toaster). Anyways.. I am heating my water for cocoa...throw the bread in toaster oven and it comes to me..... BURNT LANCASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I run to my computer... type it in... BOOOM!!!!!!!!!!! Name taken.. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I sit there for a few minutes... Burnt Burnt Burnt Burnt Burnt... What name can I use with the word Burnt in it.....


Sniff..sniff..sniff.. what's burning... $%#*%#$!!!! my toast!!!!!


And that is how my main character got his name: I Burnt The Toast


That name alone...set the way for every single character I made after that.



Imagine if you didn't have to freak out and had the ability to reserve that name you wanted so badly. That's literally all I'm asking for.  Now obviously there's no way someone can steal a name because that implies ownership, which none of us clearly have. I also doubt some of the names I want will be taken as they are pretty unique. There's no need to get in a big argument over this it's just a request to have name reservation in place if there is no user data provided. You can disagree with how much names should mean to people all day long, but at the end of it like I said alls this comes down to is a request for a welcome back feature.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Surelle on August 30, 2014, 07:42:42 PM
I will just add my voice to the din, even though CoH may or may not ever return.

If Team Hail Mary does manage to dredge up CoH from the smouldering embers, how about unlocking all the cash shop power sets and all the vet rewards through the end of tier 9 for subscription players, while leaving the purely free players to purchase things a la carte?  The team is going to need income to support CoH and work on CoH2, so subscriptions would be reliable income, without trying to force everyone to completely blow the bank investing many hundreds of dollars or more just to get back to where their accounts were back when CoH was originally live?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Young Tutor on August 30, 2014, 11:50:26 PM
I just had a random thought.

If we do start with no user data, how are you guys going to handle the SO to IO conversion?

We won't really have huge sums of inf. to go purchase all the IO placeholders we normally did (or get them from the vast stores we have in our bases). You won't be able to borrow them from another character you have. No transfer of funds either.

Will you farm on SOs until you have enough for basic IOs and then just work drops for the recipes?
Will you AE farm for tickets or find that one mish you can handle solo and farm there for drops?
Or will your first character be a total farmer so that you can build back up your fortune?

Do you PL and trade that for drops/tickets?

Do you try incarnate stuff before finishing IOing out your character?

Back in the day I leveled up a few characters w/o influence transfers, and it was pretty easy to get decent IO builds if you were patient and actively tried to generate good rewards. Starting from zero, here's what I'd do.

1.) I had a SS/Fire Armor/Mu brute for AE farming. She was kind of mindless, but a lot of fun. It wasn't too difficult to kit her out in IOs. If you have a character that can farm AE tickets efficiently, you'll generate a ton of influence and tickets (which basically gives you a metric ton of recipes). In particular, you'll generate all the "frankenslotting" recipes you could hope for (and depending on what you are rolling for, you could just get sweet uncommon sets like Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike which work too).

2.) Alignment merits via SSAs and Morality Missions were a great way to get specific rare recipes. It is pretty easy to get enough alignment merits to purchase the Performance Shifter +end Proc and Miracle unique on every character when you hit the low 20s, and have enough saved up to get the Numina unique and maybe another high-end rare IO (LOTG +recharge, etc) without excessive farming. Of course, if you were running alts you could use their Alignment Merits to fund your main.

3.) I will use the market to try and amass wealth, but I imagine in the early days there won't be a ton of spare change floating around. There will still be opportunities, however, and hopefully I'll have enough liquidity to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on August 31, 2014, 01:10:45 AM
Another hint to add to the above is if you have patience you can easily just AE farm and buy up rare salvage. Save it, sell it at a later date for 100x the price you acquired it at. I made close to a billion doing this except ae was not around at the time so I just bought a holy sh*t ton of rare salvage off the market thinking I'd wait a couple weeks for prices to spike and re-sell. Well I forgot about all of it as I bought it all up on alts, a year later and my jaw dropped when I got bored to play them :P obviously with how many players know about proper farming these days you won't have to wait a year, more like a couple months.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: erich on September 01, 2014, 05:04:30 PM
Another hint to add to the above is if you have patience you can easily just AE farm and buy up rare salvage. Save it, sell it at a later date for 100x the price you acquired it at. I made close to a billion doing this except ae was not around at the time so I just bought a holy sh*t ton of rare salvage off the market thinking I'd wait a couple weeks for prices to spike and re-sell. Well I forgot about all of it as I bought it all up on alts, a year later and my jaw dropped when I got bored to play them :P obviously with how many players know about proper farming these days you won't have to wait a year, more like a couple months.

AHHH, good ole AE farming how I miss thee!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 03, 2014, 07:24:27 PM
I'd like to see some kind of 'head start' period for those of us that can submit valid Sentinel+ files.

If we have to lose everything from the old game, we should at least have a 'first shot' at recreating our stuff before a flood of newbies show up, and then later vanish, tying up good names.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 04, 2014, 01:58:59 AM
I'd like to see some kind of 'head start' period for those of us that can submit valid Sentinel+ files.

If we have to lose everything from the old game, we should at least have a 'first shot' at recreating our stuff before a flood of newbies show up, and then later vanish, tying up good names.

And what about those of us who played just as much but didn't put our characters on Sentinel, or lost their files to virus/corruption/drive crash?

I liked one suggestion for people wanting their Sentinels uploaded: only on one server accepts Sentinel.

Suggestions:

1) Low initial purchase to download the launcher, no more than $15 - This makes everyone a 'Premium' player
2) Discounted purchase of Paragon Points/Tokens/Codes/Etc before launch, then go back to standard prices after launch - maybe 2 to 2.5X the benefit
3) Low VIP subscription - $5 per month

Or just make it a $15 purchase with a $5 monthly subscription with enough points/tokens/etc that you'd start out with at least 30 rewards tokens (ie 72 month veteran)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 04, 2014, 02:41:25 AM
1) Low initial purchase to download the launcher, no more than $15 - This makes everyone a 'Premium' player
2) Discounted purchase of Paragon Points/Tokens/Codes/Etc before launch, then go back to standard prices after launch - maybe 2 to 2.5X the benefit
3) Low VIP subscription - $5 per month

Or just make it a $15 purchase with a $5 monthly subscription with enough points/tokens/etc that you'd start out with at least 30 rewards tokens (ie 72 month veteran)

This all sounds pretty half decent. Another thing really feels like maybe we should reevaluate what is and isn't VIP. For example, I owned Going Rogue and that made the alignment system open even whilst F2P, but no one will own it now so... why not just pretend we're all owners of going rogue? It feels like it's more fair than expecting everyone to have a box, receipt, etc.

Personally I really think IOs as a premium thing is kinda mean when some powersets shine soo much less without them - but if its a low sub, like 5$/mo, then it doesn't feel so prohibitive.

Just to make sure even as I say this nothing gets misunderstood though: game at all back > no game, just preferences. I doubt if it's revived from this effort anyone involved will set up a situation that hurts the vets - after all, all of those involved are part of that same community :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: hejtmane on September 04, 2014, 02:49:21 AM
I have one common name on all my toons and it was actually great name for the toon. My only non scrapper 50 was a controller I made on Pinnacle (that was the server I played on) was a Illusion/rad and I got the name Hypnosis. Somebody please make sure to take that name because that means I win because we are playing COH.

 ;D



Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 04, 2014, 03:09:39 AM
This all sounds pretty half decent. Another thing really feels like maybe we should reevaluate what is and isn't VIP. For example, I owned Going Rogue and that made the alignment system open even whilst F2P, but no one will own it now so... why not just pretend we're all owners of going rogue? It feels like it's more fair than expecting everyone to have a box, receipt, etc.

Personally I really think IOs as a premium thing is kinda mean when some powersets shine soo much less without them - but if its a low sub, like 5$/mo, then it doesn't feel so prohibitive.

Just to make sure even as I say this nothing gets misunderstood though: game at all back > no game, just preferences. I doubt if it's revived from this effort anyone involved will set up a situation that hurts the vets - after all, all of those involved are part of that same community :)

I'm working off the premise that they can't alter what Premium or VIP provide, so make everyone at least a Premium.  Keep the monthly costs low to reflect that this is a static game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 04, 2014, 03:22:32 AM
 My issue isnt getting names.. or even leveling.. Its getting all 67 slots IO'd all over again..  on 40 plus toons..

 Im really really hoping for character data.. because it will seriously affect my commitment to play going forward.. especially with the long term future unknown.. I would hate to build all that back up again and in a few years.. POOOF gone again.. especially if there is no way for met to host or run my own server.. no way..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 04, 2014, 04:19:12 AM
I'm working off the premise that they can't alter what Premium or VIP provide, so make everyone at least a Premium.  Keep the monthly costs low to reflect that this is a static game.

The only reason I say Going Rogue more solidly is because it was something that was already disentangled from Premium somewhat. Of course, if you put it in the store for 0 cash moneys, this also works out to be the same :)

But definitely, static game, lower cost, and hopefully some way to recover from losin' loads.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 04, 2014, 04:38:42 AM
My issue isnt getting names.. or even leveling.. Its getting all 67 slots IO'd all over again..  on 40 plus toons..

 Im really really hoping for character data.. because it will seriously affect my commitment to play going forward.. especially with the long term future unknown.. I would hate to build all that back up again and in a few years.. POOOF gone again.. especially if there is no way for met to host or run my own server.. no way..
The best part might be that you won't be alone.   Something tells me that there will be huge efforts to get characters back to where they were.   This will be invaluable to me.   A group effort to get our characters back kinda sounds like the CoH spirit to me actually.   I plan to jump right into the middle of it and be a "dirty PL'er" with all my heart.  :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 04, 2014, 05:16:13 AM
 Ok I narrowed it down.. out of 48 toons I would definitely remake 32...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 04, 2014, 11:26:40 AM
The only reason I say Going Rogue more solidly is because it was something that was already disentangled from Premium somewhat. Of course, if you put it in the store for 0 cash moneys, this also works out to be the same :)

But definitely, static game, lower cost, and hopefully some way to recover from losin' loads.

Hmm... I was also working from the premise that CoH/CoV/GR were all part of the Premium access package.  So access to GR goodies needs a retail code?  If so, yeah $0 to no more than $5 for the code would be fine.  There's a lot of fun toys in all that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 04, 2014, 08:04:44 PM

I have a feeling, aside from my main which I plan to play to 50, all my other toons will be PLd. I know what I want.. I know what I had...so that whole "You won't know how to play your toons blah blah" crap won't be an issue (Not that it truly ever was for me). I think I have my toons narrowed down to 12... so aside from my farmer and my main... that's only 10 toons I will be PLing. I will prolly just dual box it and farm most of my toons myself.

The best part might be that you won't be alone.   Something tells me that there will be huge efforts to get characters back to where they were.   This will be invaluable to me.   A group effort to get our characters back kinda sounds like the CoH spirit to me actually.   I plan to jump right into the middle of it and be a "dirty PL'er" with all my heart.  :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 05, 2014, 02:22:52 AM
Hmm... I was also working from the premise that CoH/CoV/GR were all part of the Premium access package.  So access to GR goodies needs a retail code?  If so, yeah $0 to no more than $5 for the code would be fine.  There's a lot of fun toys in all that.

I just know that there was something in the database that could be flicked for GR that gave you access to new prae toons, alignment system, etc, without being subbed if you'd bought it before Freedom's conversion. This makes me think that if that could be found, everyone could be given Going Rogue as a bit of a "hey, welcome to the game" sort of similar to the way CoV was rolled into CoH.

It's not exactly the same mind you, but it's just a thought :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 05, 2014, 02:29:30 AM
i can see the influence sellers making a mint..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 05, 2014, 02:32:19 AM
And what about those of us who played just as much but didn't put our characters on Sentinel, or lost their files to virus/corruption/drive crash?

I'd say that was unfortunate but not a reason to deny those who had better fortune an opportunity.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 05, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
I'd say that was unfortunate but not a reason to deny those who had better fortune an opportunity.

Sounds to me that what you are saying is that possession of a data file (be it original, copied, modified, or new) is valid reason for a person to start out loaded with everything they had while the 'less fortunate' can go pound sand.

If something like that were done, I'd suggest the option to upload a previous character should be an additional cost based on what the toon was carrying (influence, IOs, Incarnate levels, salvage, etc).  The devs could look at your character, determine how much that character should cost, then send you an invoice. 
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Safehouse on September 05, 2014, 12:09:09 PM
There are also those who had no clue that Sentinel even existed, even those who were incredibly attached to their characters and loved them. I don't see it as a fortune or misfortune thing. I see it as a potentially very small population of players who used Sentinel. Honestly, I didn't know about Sentinel until it was brought up on this thread. If I had known about it, I might have backed up my characters. But that's a moot point; spilled milk not worth crying over. I think that the Sentinel idea is definitely a good START to getting our character data back, but I also think it leaves some people (maybe more than some) who also want their character data back out.

So, if we have a way of getting data back for those fortunate enough to have kept that data, what can be done for those who were less fortunate (myself among one of those)?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 05, 2014, 12:40:42 PM
Sounds to me that what you are saying is that possession of a data file (be it original, copied, modified, or new) is valid reason for a person to start out loaded with everything they had while the 'less fortunate' can go pound sand.

You have my meaning exactly.  I see no reason to move us all down to the lowest common denominator.

That said, I'd agree to a reasonable for to import my characters back in.  I don't need the salvage, influence, etc.  I can earn what I had back in short order.  But the characters represent eight and a half years of my life.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 05, 2014, 12:57:05 PM
You have my meaning exactly.  I see no reason to move us all down to the lowest common denominator.

That said, I'd agree to a reasonable for to import my characters back in.  I don't need the salvage, influence, etc.  I can earn what I had back in short order.  But the characters represent eight and a half years of my life.

I personally dont understand why anyone else cares what anyone else has... I dont give a crap.. I mean really its not like you get to see a database of everything I have.. I could be on a level 1 playing and have tons of Level 50's fully IO'd out with gajillions of influence and you as another player would NEVER know it..

I also dont understand the whole.. everyone should start out on the same footing argument.. its a crap argument. that holds water for a 4.32 seconds..

Some people will play more than others..

Some people will buy tons of XP boosters in store..

Some people will PL faster than others.. Some people will reform their SG PL Superteams immediately..

The Gold farmers will come back and some people will pay to have toons PL'd (lets not act like it wont happen)

The most important thing to me in getting character data is attracting as many Vets to the game as possible...



Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 05, 2014, 03:08:48 PM
This idea that previous players won't come back if they don't get their stuff is insulting to the playerbase.

The overwhelming opinion we have seen so far is that Game > Stuff
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 05, 2014, 04:12:22 PM
The only way I want player data restored is if it comes from the actual game. I do not support the Sentinel importation (nor do I think it would ever be used on an official release because that would cause a HUGE crap storm). I have most of my toons in Sentinel, but I know a lot of people who played from beta to sunset who didn't...and they would not come back if Sentinel were used for account/character data.


Personally if we get the data or not...doesn't matter to me. If I have to start over (which will prolly be the case)...then so be it... I love CoH and I will love playing my toons again. Plus I mean... I can just PL my toons ... :) And I can farm for influence... not a biggy... :) Not saying I don't want my account/character data back, but not getting it would not be a deterrent to me.


I just want everything to go through...and get an ETA on re-launch. Gonna buy a new PC once I get the go that the game is coming back on whatever date :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 05, 2014, 05:38:11 PM
Quote from: HEATSTROKE
The most important thing to me in getting character data is attracting as many Vets to the game as possible...

I think this is your blind spot.  You seem to be more concerned about the older players (and rebuilding the past) than bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: sl701 on September 05, 2014, 05:46:45 PM
The overwhelming opinion we have seen so far is that Game > Stuff

For me, definitely this. I played CoX for nearly 7 years and I don't mind re-starting at level one as long as the game comes back... Heck, I just want to visit the Rogue Isles again  :'(
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 05, 2014, 06:47:24 PM
I think this is your blind spot.  You seem to be more concerned about the older players (and rebuilding the past) than bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future.

After the first month of 'new shiny' wears off, we'll be back down to lower numbers than I23 when it came out.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 05, 2014, 08:55:10 PM
After the first month of 'new shiny' wears off, we'll be back down to lower numbers than I23 when it came out.

Let's assume you are correct.  So what?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 05, 2014, 09:20:01 PM

And with 1/50th the monetary needs for CoHi23. It's maintenance mode... Once the NCSoft deal is paid for..anything CoHi23 makes above maintenance costs is extra. CoHi23 will not have as many players as CoH did on 8/29/2012... and that's ok. The goal is to revive CoH (i23) and then focus on CoH 1.5.


CoH had approximately 50-70k active subs (Free/Premium/VIP) right before the announcement... Heck if we can get 20k subs that would be awesome... even if they only charged $5 a month for access... that's 100k a month... in one year thats 1.2 million. I think on relaunch it's going to be around 35-40k and will after a month or two settle to the 20-22k number. That's not anything to be ashamed of... Truthfully in maintenance mode you would only need about 4k people to pay $5 a month for a pure maintenance mode CoH to come even in costs. So let's not worry about what's going to be IN the game character data wise...let's just worry about getting the game..and getting it up and running.


I also think this time around we will see more fresh faces because I am pretty damn sure a lot of the returnees are going to be spreading the news...and getting more people they know involved in the game... I know I already have.





After the first month of 'new shiny' wears off, we'll be back down to lower numbers than I23 when it came out.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 05, 2014, 09:34:26 PM
I think this is your blind spot.  You seem to be more concerned about the older players (and rebuilding the past) than bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future.

I'm only concerned that players who devoted time and money will be less excited to devote money all over again to something they know won't be around forever, and will have a hard time believing is there to stay if they start as a player would have for the first time in i23.

If nothing else I paid for Going Rogue (alignment system, prae characters) cape and aura access at level 1, and a boatload of costumes. I will be the first to say I respect they cant get our account data, but I would appreciate summat more than just starting my account from scratch.

I'll accept if it's impossible, but I won't be very happy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 05, 2014, 09:38:22 PM
I'm only concerned that players who devoted time and money will be less excited to devote money all over again to something they know won't be around forever, and will have a hard time believing is there to stay if they start as a player would have for the first time in i23.

If nothing else I paid for Going Rogue (alignment system, prae characters) cape and aura access at level 1, and a boatload of costumes. I will be the first to say I respect they cant get our account data, but I would appreciate summat more than just starting my account from scratch.

I'll accept if it's impossible, but I won't be very happy.

Absolutely agreed, the costume and access codes are important items to make available.  Yet another way to make more people Premium players at discounted prices :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 05, 2014, 11:25:27 PM
Let's assume you are correct.  So what?

My point being that it is better to pander to the customers you have (in this case, we the faithful) than the customers you'd like to have (in this case, people that never played or played and quit).

Now, I have no issue with making all the premium items in the game free to everyone even though I paid for all that stuff, except for beam rifle.  I have no issue with starting all my characters over at level 1 with zero influence, zero prestige/infamy, no salvage, no enhancements and without my base.

I'd just like my characters reloaded because some of those costumes cannot be re-created.  They contain costume pieces that you can no longer select in the tailor.  Beyond that, I want the return of the emotional investment I put into those characters.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 05, 2014, 11:30:23 PM
I'd just like my characters reloaded because some of those costumes cannot be re-created.  They contain costume pieces that you can no longer select in the tailor.  Beyond that, I want the return of the emotional investment I put into those characters.

This sounds like a job for someone more familiar with icon. If NPC mode can't select the pieces, I would be seriously surprised. barring that, costume files can be edited. Do you have screens? :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Baja on September 05, 2014, 11:41:36 PM
I'm only concerned that players who devoted time and money will be less excited to devote money all over again to something they know won't be around forever, and will have a hard time believing is there to stay if they start as a player would have for the first time in i23.

If nothing else I paid for Going Rogue (alignment system, prae characters) cape and aura access at level 1, and a boatload of costumes. I will be the first to say I respect they cant get our account data, but I would appreciate summat more than just starting my account from scratch.

I'll accept if it's impossible, but I won't be very happy.


This. I'm having a hard time justifying why I should put money into this game -again- when they plan to shut it down -again-. I've said it numerous times how little I could care about 1.5, mainly because I have massive doubts you could port all the things veteran CoX players want and expect into a new engine that actually runs properly within a year. I would really appreciate a very detailed plan as to what they are going to achieve and by what date. If I'm going to pay out the wazoo to get all my stuff back into running order and it's not carried into 1.5, what exactly is the point? Not trying to be pessimistic but just a realist. I love this game more than any I've ever played, started at open beta and played to the bitter end. I really don't feel like going through that same situation... Fool me once kinda thing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 06, 2014, 01:31:44 AM

There is NO plan to shut down CoHi23 ...let's make that clear first of all. It has been stated numerous times that the goal is to keep CoHi23 up and running for as long as humanly possible. Heck they are even looking into Windows 9 compatibility because Windows 7 will no longer be supported after 2020... 6 years from now.


It has also been stated that one of the goals for CoH 1.5 is to be able to port characters from CoHi23. Does that mean it will definitely happen.. nope...but it does mean that it is a known concern and on people's wishlist....and I have absolute faith that the 1.5 team will try everything they can to make that possible.


NONE of this information you are wanting is available...and details regarding it won't be until after the ink has dried on the deal and things get moving on restoring CoHi23. There is no date for CoHi23 relaunch...and there is absolutely no date for CoH1.5.... sorry but they aren't going to guess and then when said date approaches be flamed to hell and back.


The point of CoHi23... getting the game back. There is no guarantee that 1.5 will be ready 1 year after CoHi23 launches.. it could be less or more time than that. But in the meantime..while you wait.... you can play CoHi23. I have a feeling (No I am not affiliated with CoHi23 or any other CoH/"successor" projects) that the Neo-Devs for i23 are aware of what people want...and if I were them would make everything available for a nominal monthly fee of either $5 or $10 (All costumes...story arcs..etc etc) and still include a store for insps, power ups, super packs, etc etc...).


In other words.. NOTHING is set in stone... and you...like everyone else...are going to have to wait to find out how things are going to proceed...and then you can decide once the information is out there whether CoHi23 is for you...or maybe you wait for CoH1.5.


(I'm not waiting.. I will literally be there the minute the servers come back on)




This. I'm having a hard time justifying why I should put money into this game -again- when they plan to shut it down -again-. I've said it numerous times how little I could care about 1.5, mainly because I have massive doubts you could port all the things veteran CoX players want and expect into a new engine that actually runs properly within a year. I would really appreciate a very detailed plan as to what they are going to achieve and by what date. If I'm going to pay out the wazoo to get all my stuff back into running order and it's not carried into 1.5, what exactly is the point? Not trying to be pessimistic but just a realist. I love this game more than any I've ever played, started at open beta and played to the bitter end. I really don't feel like going through that same situation... Fool me once kinda thing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 06, 2014, 01:59:22 AM
I think this is your blind spot.  You seem to be more concerned about the older players (and rebuilding the past) than bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future.

Dont know how you made the leap that far.. how does wanting long term veterans like myself to regain what they played and enjoyed some for 8 years actively prevent bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future..

You game of connect the dots seems to be missing A LOT of dots..
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 06, 2014, 02:52:39 AM
This sounds like a job for someone more familiar with icon. If NPC mode can't select the pieces, I would be seriously surprised. barring that, costume files can be edited. Do you have screens? :)

Oh yes, I've got lots of screen shots, videos captured with FRAPS, and of course the Sentinel+ files.

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Kistulot on September 06, 2014, 04:26:51 AM
Oh yes, I've got lots of screen shots, videos captured with FRAPS, and of course the Sentinel+ files.

I forget, are costume details in sentinel plus? If not, screenshots and some patience and someone could prooobably figure it out.



Also a thing worth noting: I am totally okay with newbies to the game getting perks for joining this game already in progress. I encourage it. To help us maintain our city, they deserve somethin :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 06, 2014, 03:16:30 PM
Dont know how you made the leap that far.. how does wanting long term veterans like myself to regain what they played and enjoyed some for 8 years actively prevent bringing in new players and building a larger playerbase for the future..

You game of connect the dots seems to be missing A LOT of dots..

Fair point, I should have said "I think this is your blind spot"... because you seem to have one.

That said, it's not much of a 'leap'.  You obsess about your files on any thread that even tangentially mentions this topic.  You remind us how much time and emotion you put into them.  And honestly, you seem to think you are a champion for veterans, as if we handed you the reigns to give us the game you think we want.  Newsflash: there are a lot of veterans who want to get back to the game.  I played the game for 8 years too.  I have plenty of 50's I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on.  You don't speak for me, or the majority of us.  You're not special in that regard.  Multiple veterans have come forward to say they would miss their characters, but getting back into the game is more important to them.

As I understand them, Sentinel files were set up by the Titan Network to help save toons for one-way uses into Demorecords and ParagonWiki, not as a revolving door between gaming platforms.  I don't recall a mention that they could ever be used to bring toons back into the game.  But some people won't let go of that idea.

My biggest problem with the Sentinel files is they are computer files autonomous from the master servers and computers.  They are not secure.  Several people have posted that they could be manipulated or modified, or reused to generate multiple duplicate IOs and influence assuming they could translate back.  The files could be sold to other people.  They can be corrupted.  I'm not an expert on malware so maybe someone could answer if they could be infected?  We only have one mirror of i23, not the master code.  If one file were to damage the i23 image, how much damage could that do?  Would we have to get new servers?  Would we all have to start over again from scratch with a backup i23?  Is a single costume piece, or billions in digital currency, or a complete set of purple/PvP IO's worth all that?  Not to me.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: therain93 on September 06, 2014, 05:25:41 PM
i can see the influence sellers making a mint..

I don't know. People had like 9 issues to hoard inf before it had really value with the IO system implementation.  At the end, between the cards that had various drops, IO converters, various merits, farming for inf to sell wouldn't seem to be as lucrative, imho, especially for the age of the game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: therain93 on September 06, 2014, 05:29:14 PM
Fair point, I should have said "I think this is your blind spot"... because you seem to have one.

That said, it's not much of a 'leap'.  You obsess about your files on any thread that even tangentially mentions this topic.  You remind us how much time and emotion you put into them.  And honestly, you seem to think you are a champion for veterans, as if we handed you the reigns to give us the game you think we want.  Newsflash: there are a lot of veterans who want to get back to the game.  I played the game for 8 years too.  I have plenty of 50's I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on.  You don't speak for me, or the majority of us.  You're not special in that regard.  Multiple veterans have come forward to say they would miss their characters, but getting back into the game is more important to them.

As I understand them, Sentinel files were set up by the Titan Network to help save toons for one-way uses into Demorecords and ParagonWiki, not as a revolving door between gaming platforms.  I don't recall a mention that they could ever be used to bring toons back into the game.  But some people won't let go of that idea.

My biggest problem with the Sentinel files is they are computer files autonomous from the master servers and computers.  They are not secure.  Several people have posted that they could be manipulated or modified, or reused to generate multiple duplicate IOs and influence assuming they could translate back.  The files could be sold to other people.  They can be corrupted.  I'm not an expert on malware so maybe someone could answer if they could be infected?  We only have one mirror of i23, not the master code.  If one file were to damage the i23 image, how much damage could that do?  Would we have to get new servers?  Would we all have to start over again from scratch with a backup i23?  Is a single costume piece, or billions in digital currency, or a complete set of purple/PvP IO's worth all that?  Not to me.

I have to giggle slightly at the comment that people have posted that they could manipulate and modify the Sentinel files, as if that is an achievement --- derp, they're text files folks. ( ' :

And, as rightly pointed out, no reason to ever trust them.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Scott Jackson on September 06, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Sentinel files were also intended to provide a means to partially recreate characters on private servers.  They are not merely text files (if you have one, check the final line...you'll probably see what I mean).  As such, they could theoretically be used to verify that a claimant is the true owner of each of their characters.  If NCSoft hands over the character data but not the account data, we couldn't verify who's who by using passwords, but Sentinel files would be the next most reliable way to re-verify players to characters.  There might be other ways, depending on how flexible the CoH i23 operations team is, and what records each player kept offline - akin to a "tell us the name of your characters' third grade teacher" re-verification process.  Heh.

Still, this is putting quite a train of carts in front of a horse that might not exist.  I'd suggest waiting until:
1.) the purchasing team reports success but without account data from NCSoft,
2.) an expert figures out exactly what (if any) character data is included,
If character data exists...
3.) the CoH i23 operations team decides whether (and precisely how) they will allow players to re-verify ownership of characters.  Sentinel might be just one of several options.
If -no- character data exists...
3.) the CoH i23 operations team decides whether to give help toward recreating characters in-game (such as XP boosters, various types of merits, and cash shop credits)
     and whether that aid will be equally given to all, only provided in proportion to the value of items* held by verifiably-owned characters, or available to those who pay for it.
4.) whether private server options will be made available for either CoH i23 or CoH 1.5.

*this could be easily restricted based on the knowledge of Sentinel's blind spot (transfer of Inf and enhancements from character A after Sentinel save to character B before save).  It would also be fairly easy to catch a cheater who attempts to get proportional aid to rebuild multiple characters by submitting files with items duplicated in that fashion.

Many questions, few answers at this time... but that's to be expected.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Scott Jackson on September 06, 2014, 07:46:36 PM
I forget, are costume details in sentinel plus? If not, screenshots and some patience and someone could prooobably figure it out.

Yes, Sentinel saved multiple costumes for the character.  A quick glance shows that it's not the same format as the game's own save/load costume feature, but it's legible enough that I'm sure someone would attempt to write a converter, if demand for it is high.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Peregrine Falcon on September 06, 2014, 10:12:25 PM
Personally I'm not at all worried about having to start my characters over. I'm fine restarting my characters and playing them up to 50 again.

My concern is the loss of my Veteran Rewards. I've gotten so used to a number of the powers for low level characters, angel wings, and some of the vet teleports. Having to start new characters without those would be... disappointing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 07, 2014, 12:48:25 AM
Quote
  You obsess about your files on any thread that even tangentially mentions this topic.


Quote
And honestly, you seem to think you are a champion for veterans, as if we handed you the reigns to give us the game you think we want. 


Quote
I played the game for 8 years too.  I have plenty of 50's I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on.  You don't speak for me, or the majority of us.  You're not special in that regard.


Quote
Multiple veterans have come forward to say they would miss their characters, but getting back into the game is more important to them.


I originally had a made of remarks regarding your comments.. and I realized its just not worth the time energy and effort required to actually address them. Its easier to allow you to continue in your erroneous thought process and ridiculous assumptions about me.. Ive never been one that cares what people think.. and I have learned over the years that its pointless to get into debates over the internet..

But for the record.. I never assumed I was special.. but hey thanks for thinking that I think I am ...
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MaidMercury on September 07, 2014, 02:10:44 AM
I'll recreate my favorite characters and gladly start from 1 to 50.
As long as we get the game back in it's original form, or image enhanced, I'll be happy.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 07, 2014, 03:40:54 AM
Yes, Sentinel saved multiple costumes for the character.  A quick glance shows that it's not the same format as the game's own save/load costume feature, but it's legible enough that I'm sure someone would attempt to write a converter, if demand for it is high.

A converter has already been written.  See this thread:  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9637.0.html

It works for my newer costumes but fails on those costumes with parts that were either retired from active selection or were renamed.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 07, 2014, 07:22:44 PM
I have a feeling, aside from my main which I plan to play to 50, all my other toons will be PLd. I know what I want.. I know what I had...so that whole "You won't know how to play your toons blah blah" crap won't be an issue (Not that it truly ever was for me). I think I have my toons narrowed down to 12... so aside from my farmer and my main... that's only 10 toons I will be PLing. I will prolly just dual box it and farm most of my toons myself.
Pretty much the same here with the number.   I think I only had about 15 or so lvl 50s I played anyway.  (not much of an alt-holic apparently)  So I wouldn't be surprised if there are only about 10 of them I would want back right away.

The fun of dual-boxing...I had a blast with that.   If I used it to PL though, it would take me forever to get even 5 of my 50s back.   What I do probably can't even be called "Powerleveling".      Maybe "lol-leveling"?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 07, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
There is NO plan to shut down CoHi23 ...let's make that clear first of all. It has been stated numerous times that the goal is to keep CoHi23 up and running for as long as humanly possible. Heck they are even looking into Windows 9 compatibility because Windows 7 will no longer be supported after 2020... 6 years from now.
This should be mentioned more often.   I think it is one of the more important points.   The people working on this want CoH back...for good.    CoHi23 is not a temporary thing.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 07, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
My biggest problem with the Sentinel files is they are computer files autonomous from the master servers and computers.  They are not secure.  Several people have posted that they could be manipulated or modified, or reused to generate multiple duplicate IOs and influence assuming they could translate back. 
That's not really the problem with them.   Apparently it is very difficult to alter them without it being detected.

The problem is more the probability that they would cause big issues in the game.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: HEATSTROKE on September 08, 2014, 12:09:51 AM
That's not really the problem with them.   Apparently it is very difficult to alter them without it being detected.

The problem is more the probability that they would cause big issues in the game.

I think people are really overstating the Sentinel files in general..

1) I dont think that many people are running around trying to alter the files..

2) I dont think even know how they would be used.. if at all
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 08, 2014, 03:53:23 AM
It has been stated, repeatedly by Codewalker, that the Sentinel files are not useful for importing characters back into the game. They would result in broken characters. They were meant for private servers, not a commercial relaunch and as a last resort at that.  For example:

The badge that grants Oroborus (Entrusted with the Secret) creates unlock when you earn it. Importing the character would give you the badge, but not the unlock. Further, since you already have the badge you can't re-earn it. This is the same with the mission unlocks as well. The data was exported since it basically just pulled data from the character info screen in some way and not stuff that was stored server side.

This has been stated multiple times. I'm pretty sure in this thread.

I'd like my characters back as well. But it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE WANT. IT MATTERS WHAT IS POSSIBLE.

AT THIS TIME, character data is not available. Sentinel files are not useful.

That means we start from scratch. Until something changes, there is not point in filling threads up with explaining that you want them back. Really. You want them back? Yes, we know.

Telling us how attractive it would be veterans? Pointless. It has been discussed ad nauseam since March. Nate Downes has been reading the threads, he knows what you want.

Telling us you won't play? Well, we'll miss you and you can always come back later if you want.

You want all the stuff back you bought? Me too. But right now we have ZERO information on what offers we will get if any to get all that stuff back. Several ideas were floated earlier in this thread. Maybe that will happen, maybe it won't. We will have to wait.

Really, the bottom line is that we want as much as we can get as cheaply as we can get as fast we can get to get us where we were when the game closed. That is really all you have to say. But I bet they know that already.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 08, 2014, 06:52:15 PM
I agree the discussion has gotten out of hand but I don't recall seeing any threats by anyone to not come back to the game.

I think a paid early bird period might be the answer here.  It would help defray the cost of restarting the game and give people a shot at getting their character names back.

Believe me, no matter what happens, I'd go right back to paying that monthly subscription fee.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 08, 2014, 07:28:36 PM
I agree the discussion has gotten out of hand but I don't recall seeing any threats by anyone to not come back to the game.

I think a paid early bird period might be the answer here.  It would help defray the cost of restarting the game and give people a shot at getting their character names back.

Believe me, no matter what happens, I'd go right back to paying that monthly subscription fee.

I wasn't addressing anyone in particular and this was a general reply to this issue that has been heartily discussed often.

I think that if it is possible at all the team will try and get character data. But right now they are saying they can't. If they do, I am sure that we (the players) will find someway to finance it if we have to.

However, what if they want a huge fee up front?

What if the added cost of character data makes the deal go south?

What if there is no way to restore characters without restoring every bodies character, whether they pay for it or not?

What if they only way to restore characters is to restore every name that is already taken? It's very possible that the tool you would use to free up dead names is no longer available.

Too many variables and not enough data for anything but pointless speculation. We just don't know enough for informed guesses.


Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 08, 2014, 08:39:03 PM
It has been stated, repeatedly by Codewalker, that the Sentinel files are not useful for importing characters back into the game. They would result in broken characters. They were meant for private servers, not a commercial relaunch and as a last resort at that.  For example:

The badge that grants Oroborus (Entrusted with the Secret) creates unlock when you earn it. Importing the character would give you the badge, but not the unlock. Further, since you already have the badge you can't re-earn it. This is the same with the mission unlocks as well. The data was exported since it basically just pulled data from the character info screen in some way and not stuff that was stored server side.

This has been stated multiple times. I'm pretty sure in this thread.

I'd like my characters back as well. But it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE WANT. IT MATTERS WHAT IS POSSIBLE.

AT THIS TIME, character data is not available. Sentinel files are not useful.

That means we start from scratch. Until something changes, there is not point in filling threads up with explaining that you want them back. Really. You want them back? Yes, we know.

Telling us how attractive it would be veterans? Pointless. It has been discussed ad nauseam since March. Nate Downes has been reading the threads, he knows what you want.

Telling us you won't play? Well, we'll miss you and you can always come back later if you want.

You want all the stuff back you bought? Me too. But right now we have ZERO information on what offers we will get if any to get all that stuff back. Several ideas were floated earlier in this thread. Maybe that will happen, maybe it won't. We will have to wait.

Really, the bottom line is that we want as much as we can get as cheaply as we can get as fast we can get to get us where we were when the game closed. That is really all you have to say. But I bet they know that already.
I don't mind people saying they want their characters back.   If people are allowed to say they want everyone to lose their characters, then it should also work in reverse.   
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 08, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
I don't mind people saying they want their characters back.   If people are allowed to say they want everyone to lose their characters, then it should also work in reverse.

I would just as soon people realized that it doesn't matter whether some people want a clean slate or their characters back.

I am 100% positive that if they can get them back they will. If they can't, they won't. People who want a clean slate are just as likely to be disappointed as you would be if we can't. At the moment, they are more likely to get what they want, but not because they request it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 08, 2014, 09:01:09 PM
I don't mind people saying they want their characters back.   If people are allowed to say they want everyone to lose their characters, then it should also work in reverse.

Nice strawman.  No one has said they want everyone to lose their characters.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: saipaman on September 08, 2014, 11:00:03 PM
Let's all agree we want to play again and just leave it there for now.

This 'server image' may never materialize so all this discussion may well be pointless.

Well, except for showing our ongoing interest in Cox.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Darkojin on September 09, 2014, 03:01:43 AM
We should see how things work out with just getting the game up and running again first before anyone even thinks about what possibilities exist for character data. If they can't get the game running, character data is a moot point.

As far as wishful thinking on that though, even if they just could get what global handle was linked to what account, and restore a starting character based on the information there, I would be happy with it. An example being, they see my global was @Darkojin, I have my character Arsenic Widow here linked to that global, when the game starts back up, I have a level 1 Widow named that ready to go (along with my other multitude of alts).
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 10, 2014, 07:05:18 PM
I would just as soon people realized that it doesn't matter whether some people want a clean slate or their characters back.

I am 100% positive that if they can get them back they will. If they can't, they won't. People who want a clean slate are just as likely to be disappointed as you would be if we can't. At the moment, they are more likely to get what they want, but not because they request it.
So it doesn't really matter either way.   That's why I don't mind people saying they want their characters back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 10, 2014, 07:05:58 PM
Nice strawman.  No one has said they want everyone to lose their characters.
That's not true.  Quite a few people said that in the big thread.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 10, 2014, 09:21:43 PM
That's not true.  Quite a few people said that in the big thread.

Post quotes, or drop it.  Not a single post I read in the big thread said anything to the effect of "I hope we all lose our characters and have to start over."  You might find one, maybe, but you will not find 'quite a few'.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 10, 2014, 09:40:39 PM
I wouldn't mind if we started with a clean slate... BUT all I care is that we re-start. I just want to play CoH with or without my old toons doesn't matter to me. That is not me saying I hope we start with nothing...that is me saying I am not greedy and will take whatever we can get. Would I prefer to have my billions upon billions in inf and IOs back... sure, but I am not gonna piss and moan or think twice about playing if we don't. I see a lot of people on the other side saying "If we don't get this or that....I may not play" and to me that says more about their true dedication to making CoH resurrect than anything else.
Then I see people complaining about their names etc... so be there on day one and grab your name. I seriously doubt that people are going to go for your previous name that you hold so close to your heart...and if they do.. get over it and use your imagination and reinvent yourself. For a group of people who like to say the CoH community is so great etc etc...there sure are a lot of people who think others are mean and out to get them and their names. I just think people are greedy...and a lil too needy... I just want my game back plain and simple. I have no conditions on resuming my playing of CoH... just get it up and running and I am there whether it be with all new characters or my previous ones.


I'll be thankful for whatever we get...end of story.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: erich on September 11, 2014, 12:06:59 AM
I'm with Burnt Toast. Wouldn't mind starting over. Half the fun of the game was leveling and grouping with all you fine people :)

BUT, if they do want to give us vets rewards, I have my characters exported into the xml file with all the items, enhancements, powers they had :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 11, 2014, 06:14:15 AM
Post quotes, or drop it.
Well no.  You're only saying that because you know that thread is a billion pages long!  :P   This is kinda the thread to talk about that subject to so it's weird to "drop it" here.
Quote
Not a single post I read in the big thread said anything to the effect of "I hope we all lose our characters and have to start over."  You might find one, maybe, but you will not find 'quite a few'.
You've somehow missed all the "I would prefer we start with a clean slate" posts?

I'm not talking about the "I'm fine with starting over if that's all we can get...I just want to play...but would hope we could get the characters back".   Cause...that's me too.

I'm talking about the ones who actually express a hope that we start over with a "clean slate".    I.E.  ...that we all lose our characters....that's what that means.   This is sometimes accompanied by a desire to see everyone in the low level zones or a desire to see the market start from nothing.  (surely you didn't miss those, did you?)

The motivation can vary.  There are such a thing as nerf-herders. (they do actually exist)   They are the types who feel others are "overpowered" and would like nothing better than to see those who are fully slotted with purples and incarnate slots to be reduced to lvl 1 again.   :-\   Then there are those who have that little inner hippie and really believe a forced re-start would bring the playerbase together in the lower zones to hold hands and sing songs.   That's not an evil intent at least...but more than a little naive.   I doubt they've actually thought about what their wishes would mean to other players who may have been greatly attached to their characters.

And if that viewpoint is allowed...why not the opposite, more positive viewpoint?

I wouldn't mind if we started with a clean slate... BUT all I care is that we re-start. I just want to play CoH with or without my old toons doesn't matter to me. That is not me saying I hope we start with nothing...that is me saying I am not greedy and will take whatever we can get.
We agree.   You weren't the type I was talking about.

I don't consider hoping we all get our characters back as "greedy" however.  For some reason, people with that hope are called negative names a lot on this board.   The people who actually hope for a positive thing for them and other players.  I notice that players who express this hope now have to include a disclaimer "I will take anything we can get of course" to hopefully ward off the attacks.  (to be fair, I noticed that those more accepting of lost characters have posted a disclaimer stating that they would love to have them back as well)

My hope is something that will not cause any sadness to anyone.  There are people who would be very happy and those who would not care.   Well...there is that third group who want other people to lose their characters.  They are the only possible ones who could be upset by it.  But I'm not sure I mind them being upset, frankly. 

 Not to mention a practical part of this with regard to the playerbase being larger due to the ability to jump right back in (I've got a personal friend who told me he isn't coming back without his characters)...and that they may be notified by email if the account data can be restored.   There are reasons to hope for it that are far from "greedy".  That sort of goodwill is an extreme positive should the game return.  (thus the suggestions in this thread to mitigate the damage of lost characters)   And I wonder about the account data being "lost" anyway...cause I got an email from NCSoft a few weeks ago when I signed into my account with them.   They've still got me in the system.

Hoping for us to lose our characters is hoping that a great many people will be unhappy in some way.   I think I have a moral high ground on that one.

And I've even reached a level of acceptance on it after reading the posts of those already planning ways to PL back to lvl 50 quickly.   I only had 16 of them....I could get them back pretty quick.    I had some purples...but most builds were just mid-level expensive.  (the Luck of the Gambler and KB protection were my big outlays)
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I'll be thankful for whatever we get...end of story.
Me as well.  But we are both hoping for more than we have now, yes?   Does us not being thankful for Icon and wanting more make us "greedy"?   Icon is better than nothing after all.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 11, 2014, 11:10:30 AM
Well no.  You're only saying that because you know that thread is a billion pages long!  :P   This is kinda the thread to talk about that subject to so it's weird to "drop it" here.You've somehow missed all the "I would prefer we start with a clean slate" posts?

No I'm saying it because I know that is not the general attitude of the players that we want to erase everyone's time and effort they put into CoH1.

I have not missed your 'clean slate' posts.

What I am responding to (and would like you to drop) are the continual comments about how we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff, because that is not the reality.  I have not seen a single post to that effect, though I have seen plenty of people demonstrate maturity in accepting they will very likely have to start over and/or don't want to get all their stuff back unless everyone can get their stuff back.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 11, 2014, 04:22:23 PM
No I'm saying it because I know that is not the general attitude of the players that we want to erase everyone's time and effort they put into CoH1.
Agreed.   The general attitude is "we'll take what we can get".   That's the overwhelming majority.  Those aren't who I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the ones who openly hope for us all to lose our characters so other people will play a way that makes them happy.    Anyone responding to those posts is usually insulted.

I don't see why a person who is openly hoping for something that would be a huge positive should stop when a person hoping for a negative is allowed to express their opinion.
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What I am responding to (and would like you to drop) are the continual comments about how we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff, because that is not the reality.  I have not seen a single post to that effect, though I have seen plenty of people demonstrate maturity in accepting they will very likely have to start over and/or don't want to get all their stuff back unless everyone can get their stuff back.
I never said we all want to erase the characters.  Not sure what you are talking about.   There really isn't anything for me to "drop" there since I don't say that in the first place.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Felderburg on September 11, 2014, 06:17:30 PM
What I am responding to (and would like you to drop) are the continual comments about how we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff, because that is not the reality.  I have not seen a single post to that effect, though I have seen plenty of people demonstrate maturity in accepting they will very likely have to start over and/or don't want to get all their stuff back unless everyone can get their stuff back.
I don't see why a person who is openly hoping for something that would be a huge positive should stop when a person hoping for a negative is allowed to express their opinion.I never said we all want to erase the characters.  Not sure what you are talking about.   There really isn't anything for me to "drop" there since I don't say that in the first place.

What Teikiatsu meant is that he/she believes that you (Harpospoke) are saying that there are posters who have said "we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff". Teikiatsu does not believe that anyone has said this.

I believe these quotes can illustrate:

I'm talking about the ones who actually express a hope that we start over with a "clean slate".    I.E.  ...that we all lose our characters....that's what that means.

Hoping for us to lose our characters is hoping that a great many people will be unhappy in some way.

What Teikiatsu is taking issue with is when you (Harpospoke) say that people who "express a hope that we start over with a 'clean slate' " are actually saying "we all lose our characters". You are putting words in people's mouths - when you say "that's what that means," it is NOT what that means. I think you're much more understanding now (than in your initial posts) that the people who hope for a clean slate are not maliciously hoping that everyone's characters get deleted. But you still appear to be convinced that they actively want to "proactively erase" characters, which is not the case, and is you interpreting their words in a way that I (and apparently Teikiatsu) don't believe is their intent. No one is "hoping for [you] to lose our characters," and I think that's where the disconnect is.

I doubt they've actually thought about what their wishes would mean to other players who may have been greatly attached to their characters.
...
Hoping for us to lose our characters is hoping that a great many people will be unhappy in some way. I think I have a moral high ground on that one.

This quote really illustrates very well what I think is the issue. You (Harpospoke) believe that people are "hoping for us to lose our characters." I (and I think Teikiatsu) do not agree that anyone has said or even implied this. I understand that you are "greatly attached" to your characters - so am I to mine. You're right, someone talking about a "clean slate" probably hasn't much considered those of us who have a great attachment to our characters. But no poster has said anything, directly or implied, that they want you or others to be unhappy, or that they actively hope everyone loses characters. Actively hoping for a clean slate and actively wanting characters deleted are two VERY different things. I followed the original argument, and while your understanding that people are not maliciously hoping for you to lose your characters is good, I think that the previous sentence illustrates the key misunderstanding that has led you to believe there is a group of people who want others to be unhappy.



I would also argue that talking about the benefits of a clean slate is also an optimistic viewpoint. You speak of yours being "positive" - obviously not getting characters is a negative, but spinning it in a positive way is also a good thing. As in: "Sure, we don't get characters, but at least we get the hoped-for benefits of a "clean slate"." Pragmatic, optimistic, positive.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: srmalloy on September 11, 2014, 07:49:00 PM
I look at it like this... if the account data is not recoverable... I would still be content starting over. Know why? Because I'm not an ungrateful schmuck. I'd be grateful just to have the game back. Starting over fresh is a small price to pay to get the game itself back. Characters can always be remade and releveled. Enhancements can always be reacquired. How anyone can say they care about the game and in the same breath say they won't play if they have to start from scratch just makes my head spin.
I want to be able to step back into Paragon City and the heroes/villains that I've spent years with. That said, if the only way to do that is to build them back from their origins, I will. It's not the way I would want it to happen, but that decision isn't in my hands.

With all due respect, Baja, people who started playing this game from 2008, or even later than that, can grow just as attached to the identities they created in CoH and the names that go with them. You don't need to be playing from 2004 just to develop that kind of attachment.
And even if you were playing since 2004, you can be just as attached to characters that you created a year or less before shutdown.

Sentinel files were also intended to provide a means to partially recreate characters on private servers.  They are not merely text files (if you have one, check the final line...you'll probably see what I mean).  As such, they could theoretically be used to verify that a claimant is the true owner of each of their characters.  If NCSoft hands over the character data but not the account data, we couldn't verify who's who by using passwords, but Sentinel files would be the next most reliable way to re-verify players to characters.  There might be other ways, depending on how flexible the CoH i23 operations team is, and what records each player kept offline - akin to a "tell us the name of your characters' third grade teacher" re-verification process.  Heh.
Assuming that we do get the server archives with the character data as of the last backup made. Still, it's probably the best way to match people to their game account. Importing the data from the Sentinel+ files themselves would be considerably more complicated:

The badge that grants Oroborus (Entrusted with the Secret) creates unlock when you earn it. Importing the character would give you the badge, but not the unlock. Further, since you already have the badge you can't re-earn it. This is the same with the mission unlocks as well. The data was exported since it basically just pulled data from the character info screen in some way and not stuff that was stored server side.

It's artifacts like these that would make creating an import tool more complicated; the importer would need to be able to identify badges associated with unlocks and set the appropriate unlock flag on the character during the import process. This is not impossible to do; it merely requires a greater level of attention to detail than simply sucking the raw data out of the XML file. Whether this happens depends too much on whether the negotiations with NCSoft succeed in rescuing the game from them, and what server and account information we get if those negotiations succeed. If all we get is the naked server code and game-support data, then the only way to get characters back would be to do the development work on a full import tool for Sentinel+ files, and a decision would need to be made whether this is important enough to do. If we get the character data as well, then tying players to the COH accounts becomes the primary concern.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 11, 2014, 09:31:29 PM
What Teikiatsu meant is that he/she believes that you (Harpospoke) are saying that there are posters who have said "we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff". Teikiatsu does not believe that anyone has said this.
Yes, that has been said several times.   We apparently do not agree that changing the wording means you aren't saying what you are saying.
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What Teikiatsu is taking issue with is when you (Harpospoke) say that people who "express a hope that we start over with a 'clean slate' " are actually saying "we all lose our characters". You are putting words in people's mouths - when you say "that's what that means," it is NOT what that means.
That's exactly what it means.   When you hope we all lose our characters you are hoping we all lose our characters.  Wording it as "I hope we have a clean slate" doesn't change what it means.   That's how politicians operate.
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I think you're much more understanding now (than in your initial posts) that the people who hope for a clean slate are not maliciously hoping that everyone's characters get deleted. But you still appear to be convinced that they actively want to "proactively erase" characters, which is not the case, and is you interpreting their words in a way that I (and apparently Teikiatsu) don't believe is their intent. No one is "hoping for [you] to lose our characters," and I think that's where the disconnect is.
Some are malicious about it (unless you truly believe that nerf herders do not exist), some are just naive and not giving any thought to what it means when they hope we lose our characters.   They are thinking of things they would enjoy (more people playing in low level zones) and not thinking about the huge negative effect that would have on all the players who lost their characters.
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This quote really illustrates very well what I think is the issue. You (Harpospoke) believe that people are "hoping for us to lose our characters." I (and I think Teikiatsu) do not agree that anyone has said or even implied this.
We'll just have to disagree on that.  When you hope we all lose our characters, you are hoping we all lose our characters.   Wording it differently doesn't actually change what you are hoping for.   You are most certainly doing more than "implying" it.
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I understand that you are "greatly attached" to your characters - so am I to mine. You're right, someone talking about a "clean slate" probably hasn't much considered those of us who have a great attachment to our characters. But no poster has said anything, directly or implied, that they want you or others to be unhappy, or that they actively hope everyone loses characters. Actively hoping for a clean slate and actively wanting characters deleted are two VERY different things. I followed the original argument, and while your understanding that people are not maliciously hoping for you to lose your characters is good, I think that the previous sentence illustrates the key misunderstanding that has led you to believe there is a group of people who want others to be unhappy.
Some do.  There are people like that in the world.  They really wouldn't mind seeing people unhappy. 

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I would also argue that talking about the benefits of a clean slate is also an optimistic viewpoint. You speak of yours being "positive" - obviously not getting characters is a negative, but spinning it in a positive way is also a good thing. As in: "Sure, we don't get characters, but at least we get the hoped-for benefits of a "clean slate"." Pragmatic, optimistic, positive.
I'm in that group.  (Who knows....I might actually get good at PL'ing!   ;D)  These are not the people I'm talking about.

If we want to allow people to post their desire to have us all lose our characters (also known as hoping for a clean slate) and explain why they want this, then we certainly should allow people to hope that we get our characters back and explain why they want that.   Of the two, the former is easily the more negative and disagreeable.   The only people who could possibly be upset at us getting our characters back are those described above....I can live with that.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 11, 2014, 09:58:46 PM
Harpospoke, you can express whatever you wish. People who want a clean slate and people who want it all back can certainly express that desire. It just has been done repeatedly because apparently you seem to believe that we have forgotten your viewpoint. In my mind, no matter what you post ever, I will always associate you with wanting your characters back. Well Done!

Every time some new poster comes along says "Gee! A clean slate would be kinda cool! All the names would be free and the lower level zones would be populated. I would like that!" You are summoned, as if by magic, to tell them that they want you to be unhappy because you don't want to lose your characters.

The real problem here is that your desire, or theirs, will have ZERO impact on what happens. The group working on the negotiations are going to get the best deal they can for the money they have. That's it.

Even if NCSoft had every single thing they wanted, they would still get the best deal for the money. Will it include character data? If possible, I am sure it will.

Do you honestly think that anyone connected to this negotiation does not know what you want? If you believe that Nate Downes doesn't know this, send him a PM.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 11, 2014, 11:06:07 PM
(What I've been trying to say - Teikiatsu)

Thanks Felderburg, someone gets it :)

At this point I hope that everyone but Harpospoke gets all their stuff back, and Harpo is not only forced to start with nothing but also has a -50 level penalty, -1,000,000,000 inf, all SOs, only i1 costume pieces, no power colors, no badges, and no prestige.

Yeah, that kind of a day at work :)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 12, 2014, 12:05:36 AM
Harpospoke, you can express whatever you wish. People who want a clean slate and people who want it all back can certainly express that desire.
Well that's certainly better than the sentiments expressed before.   The "drop it" and "there is no point in filling threads up with explaining that you want them back" things directed at me and at Heatstroke.

So....we can talk about what we want now?   Just checking.
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It just has been done repeatedly because apparently you seem to believe that we have forgotten your viewpoint. In my mind, no matter what you post ever, I will always associate you with wanting your characters back. Well Done!
Well...now you seem to be urging me to shut up again.
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Every time some new poster comes along says "Gee! A clean slate would be kinda cool! All the names would be free and the lower level zones would be populated. I would like that!" You are summoned, as if by magic, to tell them that they want you to be unhappy because you don't want to lose your characters.
That's what they are saying.  Whether they actually know what they are saying is a factor, but it doesn't change the fact that they are openly hoping I don't get my characters back.

Let's do it in reverse so you can see what I'm saying:

Suppose I post this:

"I hope everyone is issued only lvl 50 characters and are unable to start new ones so there will be more people to play the end-game content with me."

Any problem with that?
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The real problem here is that your desire, or theirs, will have ZERO impact on what happens. The group working on the negotiations are going to get the best deal they can for the money they have. That's it.
I would say "close to zero".   Since they are reading these threads, it does seem like they would take posted opinions into account when they are considering what to ask for.   If they read a lot of "I would rather start from nothing" then they may think it's not important to even try to get the account info.

But are we going to use that metric to decide what we should talk about?   ....Because nothing we say here will have any effect.   This forum may as well shut down.    Most people are saying "I would like the characters back but will take what I can get" (I'm in this group  too)....this has been stated over and over and over.   Should we stop saying that too?   Are you going to confront people who post that as well?   Or is this just going to be directed at the "I want my characters back" people?

Again...I've accepted we probably won't get them back and have moved on to plan B...powerleveling.   I'm in a better spot than most...only 16 characters to get back.   I figure I can be back up and running within a month or two.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 12, 2014, 12:05:49 AM
At this point I hope that everyone but Harpospoke gets all their stuff back, and Harpo is not only forced to start with nothing but also has a -50 level penalty, -1,000,000,000 inf, all SOs, only i1 costume pieces, no power colors, no badges, and no prestige.

Yeah, that kind of a day at work :)
I don't get it, but ok.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  There had to be a reason why you were complaining so much about people expressing a desire for a hugely positive thing for the playerbase.

For the record, I still hope you get your stuff back too.    :P
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Teikiatsu on September 12, 2014, 02:08:49 AM
There had to be a reason why you were complaining so much about people expressing a desire for a hugely positive thing for the playerbase.

It seems that you can only post false narratives on this topic.  Why do you keep saying things that are not true?  It's not proving anything except you have a mental block against reality.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 12, 2014, 06:55:25 AM
It seems that you can only post false narratives on this topic.  Why do you keep saying things that are not true?  It's not proving anything except you have a mental block against reality.
Wait...aren't you the one who said I post "continual comments about how we all supposedly want to proactively erase all of our stuff"....when I've never said anything like that?
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Burnt Toast on September 12, 2014, 07:21:43 AM
Well this conversation has devolved into needless bickering and semantics.. yay for maturity.


Gotta love that great friendly CoH community people are always championing.


 :roll:

Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 12, 2014, 03:06:14 PM

Let's do it in reverse so you can see what I'm saying:

Suppose I post this:

"I hope everyone is issued only lvl 50 characters and are unable to start new ones so there will be more people to play the end-game content with me."

Any problem with that?

Well, if you posted that you I would probably explain to you that since I don't believe they have any way to do that on a regular server, just the test server and that was before they lost all the dev tools they can't. But since it's you, that wouldn't stop you from bringing it up every time someone posts about wanting your characters back or opining over the benefits of a clean start.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Codewalker on September 12, 2014, 03:11:54 PM
Gotta love that great friendly CoH community people are always championing.

*shrug*

Disagreements happen. If it were any other gaming community it probably would have degenerated into "no u!", vicious personal attacks, and name calling by now. This seems relatively tame as far as internet arguments go.

Just go spend some time on the Minecraft forums. /lolun00b :P
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Harpospoke on September 12, 2014, 09:45:50 PM
Well, if you posted that you I would probably explain to you that since I don't believe they have any way to do that on a regular server, just the test server and that was before they lost all the dev tools they can't. But since it's you, that wouldn't stop you from bringing it up every time someone posts about wanting your characters back or opining over the benefits of a clean start.
We have to use a proper analogy.   There would need to be a way to do it obviously and it would have to be what we are "probably going to get".   Of course many players would be unhappy about it.   Then I enter and say, "I prefer it this way" or "it should happen" in the midst of all those unhappy players.   I can't imagine that going over very well.

And since you have been keeping such a close eye on my posts, I'm surprised you missed that I haven't actually brought it up in this conversation.   As I've said, I'm not so worried about the characters now....I've figured out an alternate plan that works for me.   But I see no reason why those who still greatly desire their characters back have to keep quiet about it.   That was actually what this conversation is about if you want to check my original post.

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I don't mind people saying they want their characters back.   If people are allowed to say they want everyone to lose their characters, then it should also work in reverse.   

So I'm not really even talking about myself here.   If you check this thread, I think you'll find the overwhelming sentiment expressed...over and over....is that "I would like our accounts back...but will take what I can get".   This sentiment dwarfs the "I really would like to have my characters back" sentiment.   In fact, those expressing the latter usually are careful to point out the former.   You, for some reason I can't quite figure out, chose to single out that far less expressed sentiment as one which needed to stop being expressed.   

Another more popular one than "my characters" is the "I hope we get account data back so I can have my name/costumes/purchases".   These sentiments are equally futile to express on these boards (like every other thing we are hoping for) but continue to be repeated.   You and others say that the problem is that it is being repeated...the "I want my characters" hope is far down the list of "repeated wishes".   Yet....you focus only on the ones that express a strong desire to have characters back.  Very curious.   What can possibly be so special about that one specific view that warrants such attempts at censorship?

Perhaps we will get to play together at some point and you'll like me much better when you find out what a mediocre player I am.   I'll make you feel really good about your skill.    8)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on September 15, 2014, 06:24:21 PM
I think the issue is your insistence those desiring a clean slate are saying "I want you to lose your characters." That is an unintended consequence of their wish just as an unintended consequence of yours is that nobody (but new accounts) would start with a clean slate.

The difference is that are not trying to hang that albatross around your neck as you haunt the forums..

It might be time to let all those others who feel as you do to respond to these requests for clean slates. If no one does perhaps that tells you something about the issue.

But for the sake of amity, I will leave it to you. I think that we are just rehashing the same thing over and over and I don't have the endurance for this right now. (need to slot recovery)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: DRAYGOS on October 21, 2014, 03:34:50 AM
I think the issue is your insistence those desiring a clean slate are saying "I want you to lose your characters." That is an unintended consequence of their wish just as an unintended consequence of yours is that nobody (but new accounts) would start with a clean slate.

The difference is that are not trying to hang that albatross around your neck as you haunt the forums..

It might be time to let all those others who feel as you do to respond to these requests for clean slates. If no one does perhaps that tells you something about the issue.

But for the sake of amity, I will leave it to you. I think that we are just rehashing the same thing over and over and I don't have the endurance for this right now. (need to slot recovery)

CM, Fort, RA and AB for you Devil... :D
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: Drauger9 on October 22, 2014, 07:17:55 AM
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Since this is not a new game - well it is in the sense that it is new management. I was thinking of ways to give players back some of their stuff quickly. I do know that people feel that I paid for it once why pay again and I don't dismiss that. However the new management has never collected anything yet. Sp how do you fairly administer this?

Ideas for the games return:

1. Allow every player to get 1 level 50 at the start.
2. Allow either a starter pack with all the Vet rewards or have a same starting setup as the 50 where you get to pick say any 10 rewards.
3. Open all AT including VT's at creation.

Try posting some ways that would be fair to both the new owners and players!


I'm going to be bad and not read all the posts on this. So if anyone has covered this, then sorry *ducks*.

I was thinking about this the other day. Maybe you can do it with in packs. I don't know if your going to do digital download only or digital/physical copies. But either way, you could have the standard pack, then have a few deluxe packs. Say with every pack no matter which one you get option three "all ATs", then maybe have a deluxe pack with a free level 50 and some vet rewards. Then have a deluxe pack 2 with all vet rewards?

I personally don't care about paying all over again or starting all over again. I just want to log in again. :(

Oh and maybe throw in some character slots LOL! I was thinking about how much buying all those all over again was going to hurt but I'll do it in a second!
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: MWRuger on October 22, 2014, 06:26:34 PM
CM, Fort, RA and AB for you Devil... :D

Thank You! I now I feel like hitting PI for trick or treating! (At least I wish I could)
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JennSpace on October 22, 2014, 06:33:30 PM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: LaughingAlex on October 22, 2014, 08:13:13 PM
I have a newer machine to play CoX on myself, and I'll just be happy to be playing it.
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: artbunker on October 28, 2014, 01:19:38 AM
Title: Re: If we start with no user data
Post by: JennSpace on October 28, 2014, 04:21:18 PM
Back in the Summer of 2012, I went home to Washington D.C. and put COH on my moms laptop.  I had to play in basic graphics as well. It wasnt too much of a hit on my eyes, but trust me when your easily able to hit Ultra, you will see the game in a different light .

I know what you mean, I used to play CoH at my local internet cafe because I could play the game on Ultra and it was always a huge party because the game looked so beautiful!!  ;D XDDD