NCSoft Stockwatch

[Segev]

Sounds like we need another community call-to-action to keep up the pressure.

[HarvesterOfEyes]

Markets Fluctuate.

Market reporters trade in the false concept that the explanation for each day's change is clear and knowable.

[malonkey1]

Markets Fluctuate.

Market reporters trade in the false concept that the explanation for each day's change is clear and knowable.

Like panel 5 of this comic. Something tiny and stupid affects things, and everybody tries to connect to something important instead.

[DJMoose]

....OMG....4chan is Lord Nemesis!

This makes perfect sense.

[Victoria Victrix]

For what it is worth, a few words were dropped in the shell-like ear of the Korean Times journalist.  We made some observations and suggested he might look into a couple things.  One, if he merely raises questions about it, is going to make things very uncomfortable for NCSoft.  The other, while mere speculation, if by some possibility is true....would be a bombshell.

And while your minds are spinning, I will offer the following observation.

When Paragon Points or GW Gems or other in-game currency that requires hard cash are purchased in the marketplaces, the money goes straight to NCSoft via their third-party store.  That money remains with NCSoft until the points are cashed in at the game.  Only then does the game studio get credit for that influx of money and have it go on their side of the ledger.

So if a large number of F2P accounts would purchase points or gems, NOT cash them in, and cancel the accounts, NCSoft would get a large influx of money...that would never be credited as income to the game studio.

And one might speculate why someone would do something like that.  Why on earth would someone want to transfer money to another entity and get nothing from it?  (Hint:  Two words.  First word: rhymes with honey.  Second word: rhymes with maundering)

[DrakeGrimm]

For what it is worth, a few words were dropped in the shell-like ear of the Korean Times journalist.  We made some observations and suggested he might look into a couple things.  One, if he merely raises questions about it, is going to make things very uncomfortable for NCSoft.  The other, while mere speculation, if by some possibility is true....would be a bombshell.

And while your minds are spinning, I will offer the following observation.

When Paragon Points or GW Gems or other in-game currency that requires hard cash are purchased in the marketplaces, the money goes straight to NCSoft via their third-party store.  That money remains with NCSoft until the points are cashed in at the game.  Only then does the game studio get credit for that influx of money and have it go on their side of the ledger.

So if a large number of F2P accounts would purchase points or gems, NOT cash them in, and cancel the accounts, NCSoft would get a large influx of money...that would never be credited as income to the game studio.

And one might speculate why someone would do something like that.  Why on earth would someone want to transfer money to another entity and get nothing from it?  (Hint:  Two words.  First word: rhymes with honey.  Second word: rhymes with maundering)

* DrakeGrimm growls, eyes going red.

They had best pray to whatever gods they worship that this speculation leads nowhere, or so help me...

[dwturducken]

Dia-frickin-bolical!

[Victoria Victrix]

*shrug*

This is why churches have been a consistent spot for the same sort of operation.  Lots of money comes in on Sunday, with no questions asked, no trace on it, and nothing is received in return.  Just buy a bunch of prepaid debit cards with cash, create an F2P account, and run your script.  As I said, it is NOTHING but speculation, but the mechanism is right there in plain sight.

[Colette]

"The other, while mere speculation, if by some possibility is true....would be a bombshell. Hint:  Two words.  First word: rhymes with honey.  Second word: rhymes with maundering."

:: Gapes! ::

...wow. Just wow. Wouldn't that be sumthin'!

[Kistulot]

This makes me feel really glad that the extra points left over in my account were freebies :(

[Arkasas]

I believe the moral of this story is to never, ever anger VV.

[mikoroshi]

I believe the moral of this story is to never, ever anger VV.

Or come to her when you need an elaborate plan to launder money you've... obtained.

[Electric-Knight]

Hmmm...
But... but... isn't bunny sauntering illegal in most countries??
*scratches head*

[MoltenSlowa]

Hmmm...
But... but... isn't bunny sauntering illegal in most countries??
*scratches head*

No no no, you're thinking of funny bludgeoning.

[dwturducken]

OK, this just made an association that, for me, ruined the humor of the thread. Fortunately, if you haven't seen the Ken Burns special on the Dust Bowl, you're safe. Also, if you didn't read EK's post as "bunny sundering."  :D

[DrakeGrimm]

I don't know what's worse. That VV put this idea forward...or that the more I look through things, the more this speculative theory suddenly makes all their actions make perfect sense.

We need to find someone to seriously dig into this, paranoid delusions of a disheartened and broken community or not.

[Kistulot]

OK, this just made an association that, for me, ruined the humor of the thread. Fortunately, if you haven't seen the Ken Burns special on the Dust Bowl, you're safe. Also, if you didn't read EK's post as "bunny sundering."  :D

I must now take the feat Improved Bunny Sundering.

It lets you sunder bunnies without an attack of opportunity being provoked.

>.>

[DJMoose]

I must now take the feat Improved Bunny Sundering.
It lets you sunder bunnies without an attack of opportunity being provoked.
>.>

Because they are no ordinary rabbits...

I don't know what's worse. That VV put this idea forward...or that the more I look through things, the more this speculative theory suddenly makes all their actions make perfect sense.

Wow...We totally need to look into this.  It makes too much sense.

[FatherXmas]

Sorry VV, you and the legal system have very different definitions of Bunny Saundering.  NCSoft handling of the proxy game currency is totally legal and makes sense back when they introduced NCCoin, which was suppose to be a multigame currency.  Same could apply to gaming time sold in Korea and other Asian countries for their "native" MMOs or the NCSoft generic time cards sold here.  Of course it adds another layer of accounting, tracking how much proxy currency that was spent that wasn't rewarded either ingame or part of a subscription, and then credit it as income from the game.

Plus they aren't getting all the money if the proxy currency is bought in a store front.  Retailers get a cut and here in the US a fair chunk of those cards are handled by one company and they get their cut before the publisher sees any of it.  This is why BestBuy still sells CoH Game Cards.  Until the card company tells them it's OK to pull them and will provide the retailer with credit (or cards for other games still in business) they are contractually obligated to display them.

Actually if you want to extend your explanation, all box sales first go in NCSoft's coffers and then credited to each game.

Listen I get it.  What NCSoft did to Paragon and us out of the blue was wrong at the very least a PR perspective.  However you can't imply malfeasance in any legal business practice that you find objectionable.  Attempting to drive down the stock price of NCSoft doesn't hurt them.  It hurts the people that own the stock but NCSoft got their money way back when the stock first went public.  A stock price is a reflection what investors think of a company, but as long as the company is profitable the stock price is immaterial to it's operations.  At best it's a source of pride.  NCSoft doesn't hire talent with attractive stock options.  They aren't Google.

The only time when the stock went down because someone here did something was VV's comments for The Korea Times piece, and that's loss has been erased with this restructuring of the western subsidiaries.  The Unity rally was great for us and generated a lot of western press but zero in Korea where most of their investors are.  Any drop in the stock between them and the 3Q numbers release is entirely due to NCSoft repeatedly missing their sales targets combined with a downturn in the industry as well as the worldwide economy.  I also imagine that those with their ears to the ground got a strong hint about the direction the 3Q numbers were heading, likely from their PC Bang game rankings of all their games and got out before the pancake hit the fan.  Those who didn't, had only a partial picture (B&S hits #1 in PC Bangs but ignored the Lineage and Aion rankings) and/or believed NCSoft was about ready to skyrocket again saw these drops as buying opportunities which is why the stock rebounded several times on the way down.

I'm not raining on your parade but simply trying to put some perspective into this.  All that driving the stock price down is only going to make them into a easier target for someone to take them over and that's it.  But as long as their sales are growing and profits are comparable to other online gaming companies, then the stock will never be driven below book value or below the range what the industry's P/E ratio says it should be.

[Victoria Victrix]

I never said it wasn't legal.  It's perfectly legal.  It's also wide open to Honey Maundering.  That's why Honey Maundering is so widespread, it uses legal ways to clean illicit cash.

And if you were trying to put another level of obfuscation between you and the company (NCSoft Interactive) that you had been using to Maunder Honey, wouldn't you close that company and resell its assets to another shell company?