Deja Vu

[chaparralshrub]

No, I was just sort of expanding on "I don't want to see anyone from NCSoftcore lose their jobs."  The Boobs and Shame "artist" is someone I actually would like to see lose his job.  The more I look at his "art" the more furious I get on general principles.

The general impression I'm getting now is that NCSoft West is perfectly fine, and that it's NCSoft East that is the problem. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm somehow doubting now that the decision to kill CoH was made this side of the lake.

If that's the case, then the ideal situation might be to sever NCSoft West, along with all of its various IPs, from NCSoft East, but keep them both as viable (or not-so-viable, hopefully viable in NCSW's case) companies. I am now again thinking of Roosevelt's anti-trust legislation...

[MishaFox]

So let me see if I understand this right? Not only is NCSoft being stupid and poorly handling CoH but they've actually done the same crap at least 4 times before?

[Segev]

They have killed 4 other games. Those other games were losing money. There is not enough information given at this time to say whether it was something wrong with the game and its development or if NCSoft mishandled them into the red; I would hesitate to even suggest the latter as the former is very, very likely.

What makes the CoH situation so strange and so angering to people's sensibilities is that CoH was NOT losing money. It was earning a profit.

[Zolgar]

They have killed 4 other games. Those other games were losing money. There is not enough information given at this time to say whether it was something wrong with the game and its development or if NCSoft mishandled them into the red; I would hesitate to even suggest the latter as the former is very, very likely.

What makes the CoH situation so strange and so angering to people's sensibilities is that CoH was NOT losing money. It was earning a profit.

To be fair though, they didn't really put any effort in to saving those games.. they were just like "Welp, it's done."..

CoH on the other hand, was floundering and.. kinda starting to die.
They put effort in to saving it.
They made a move that's usually the 'death throes' of an MMO and made it Free to Play.
They focking REVIVED it with that (and awesome support from Paragon Studios)
.... then they killed it.

I mean seriously, much before the Incarnate stuff and Going Rogue, the outcry over the shutdown woulda been hella smaller... >.>

[Turjan]

They put effort in to saving it.
They made a move that's usually the 'death throes' of an MMO and made it Free to Play.
They focking REVIVED it with that (and awesome support from Paragon Studios)
.... then they killed it.

https://i.imgur.com/EHvTD.jpg

[Segev]

Much as I hate painting NCSoft as villainous (rather than well-meaning but paving the road to hell with those good intentions), if going free-to-play is usually "death throes" for a game, maybe they INTENDED it to kill it off, and were surprised when it didn't. Worse, maybe they assumed it was killing it off and just went ahead with the planned shutdown without seeing that it actually had turned around. (I doubt that last sentence is true. But it's a slight possibility.)

[Turjan]

Ah, but this F2P 'death throes' thing about MMOs is only a western perception, and not a totally valid one either. It's just that we're traditionally more used to monthly sub funded MMOs than any other business model.

F2P is a more recent introduction to the west - thanks to comapnies like...Nexon, who've been operating the model very successfully for years.

Curious thing here is that NCSoft were never proponents of F2P, either here or in Korea, which is why CoH going F2P was quite the surprise.
Even more curiously, they made CoH F2P 6 months before NCSoft CEO Kim sold 2/3 of his personal company stock to Nexon's boss...

So, months before Nexon entered the picture, NCSoft had already moved one of its longest running titles to a payment model that was more in keeping with its future partnership with Nexon.

And then NCSoft closes City of Heroes.
???
Nurse! Break out the thorazine! I think the CEO's lost the plot!!

[Knightslayer]

I can't blame game developers too much. After playing WoW for a few years and being fairly involved in that 'community', it certainly seems like the majority of MMO players really are hummingbird-brained sheep who are fickle and jump from one shiny game to the next, playing them only so long until they get bored, then moving to another.

*raises hand* I'm in that club of hummingbird-brained sheep. >.>
Though I usually have my "home" MMO, which is what CoH has been to me all this time.

100% behind this statement... hell, there is a World of Darkness MMO in development but CCP that i want to try out, not to mention as well Cyberpunk (CD Projekt RED). Now, if a Shadowrun/Earthdawn (more the former than the latter) MMO came out, oh yes... it is one of my favorite RPG's out there, and is one that I would love to see done. Yes, I know that Shadowrun Returns and Shadowrun Online are in development, and I *will* be playing them. Hell, Outland is game that is interesting me, along with a passing interest in Firefall.

Hell yeah, I'll be trying those too! Especially WoD.
For now though... shooting aliens in the face will have to suffice... *eyes Xcom: EU running in the background*  8)

[Knightslayer]

Ah, but this F2P 'death throes' thing about MMOs is only a western perception, and not a totally valid one either. It's just that we're traditionally more used to monthly sub funded MMOs than any other business model.

F2P is a more recent introduction to the west - thanks to comapnies like...Nexon, who've been operating the model very successfully for years.

Curious thing here is that NCSoft were never proponents of F2P, either here or in Korea, which is why CoH going F2P was quite the surprise.
Even more curiously, they made CoH F2P 6 months before NCSoft CEO Kim sold 2/3 of his personal company stock to Nexon's boss...

So, months before Nexon entered the picture, NCSoft had already moved one of its longest running titles to a payment model that was more in keeping with its future partnership with Nexon.

And then NCSoft closes City of Heroes.
???
Nurse! Break out the thorazine! I think the CEO's lost the plot!!

Yep, the F2P perception is a Western thing indeed, while it's true that it originally started as a desperate measure over here to save a dying game, for example DDO's relaunch as F2P - which according to some articles made them one of the most profitable MMO's the year after the conversion.
After seeing it CAN be profitable a lot of publishers followed suit, NCSoft being among them - with CoH as their guinea pig.
Which to me is more proof that Freedom didn't hurt their numbers, since after that "experiment" proved successful they immediately started converting all of their other titles that had been struggling - Lineage and Aion.

[Turjan]

After seeing it CAN be profitable a lot of publishers followed suit, NCSoft being among them - with CoH as their guinea pig.
Which to me is more proof that Freedom didn't hurt their numbers, since after that "experiment" proved successful they immediately started converting all of their other titles that had been struggling - Lineage and Aion.

Indeed, it's crazy isn't it? :o

Like I say, the more I look at it, the less reasons I see for shutting CoH down, and the more reasons I see for keeping it going! ???

[Zolgar]

I've hit the point that I believe they intended to shut CoH down going back a couple years, and decided to make it F2P to let it die of natural causes (like most MMOs that went F2P did prior) so there wouldn't be much complaint about it shutting down..
And instead, they saved it.. hah.

Had they pulled the plug before Going Rogue released? I bet this movement would barely have even started, because a lot of players would be like ".. eh, it was time."

[Knightslayer]

I've hit the point that I believe they intended to shut CoH down going back a couple years, and decided to make it F2P to let it die of natural causes (like most MMOs that went F2P did prior) so there wouldn't be much complaint about it shutting down..
And instead, they saved it.. hah.

Had they pulled the plug before Going Rogue released? I bet this movement would barely have even started, because a lot of players would be like ".. eh, it was time."

What MMO's are that? As far as I know most MMO's that switched from a subscription to a F2P one actually improved their numbers.
Other than that the MMO's that I know either started as F2P or never switched and simply shut down.

[Zolgar]

What MMO's are that? As far as I know most MMO's that switched from a subscription to a F2P one actually improved their numbers.
Other than that the MMO's that I know either started as F2P or never switched and simply shut down.

Shadowbane
Horizons (still running yes, but.. no one really knows why)

those are the only ones I can think of off the top, but there were several other MMOs that went F2P in their death throes.. some recovered.. others.. not so much.

[Knightslayer]

Shadowbane
Horizons (still running yes, but.. no one really knows why)

those are the only ones I can think of off the top, but there were several other MMOs that went F2P in their death throes.. some recovered.. others.. not so much.

Ah, Shadowbane - one of the MMO's I completely missed =/
On the bright side, if you liked the game;

On April 13, 2012, Chinese game company Changyou announced it had acquired the intellectual property rights and source code to Shadowbane with the intent of developing a new version of the game, which would be titled World of Shadowbane.

Also; http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/world-of-shadowbane/

And I remember zealously following Horizons for years when it was in development... and then when the game came out it was a mere shadow of the concept they had been marketting for years...

[Zolgar]

And I remember zealously following Horizons for years when it was in development... and then when the game came out it was a mere shadow of the concept they had been marketting for years...

I played it when it first released. It was cool, but had a lot of major flaws.... it's like they released it while it was still in beta. I left Horizons for CoH.