New efforts!

[LateNights]

I'm guessing you're referring to 4d(ii):

That just means NCSoft may require payment for Paragon Points - as opposed to giving them away - not that they can compel you to buy them.

That's the one - was almost happy the game was closed for a second there...

:P

[brothermutant]

Also, inn case you haven't noticed, this thread, although it was started as a discussion about returning the game to a playable state,  has diverged from that topic numerous times.

You can't honestly tell me that the discussion about Faster than Light space travel has anything to do with the return of CoH in a playable state and still have even the least bit of credibility.

Ummm, could be used for time travel possibly. That could lead to going back in time and giving gawd awful amounts of monies to NCSoft to purchase the game, and through extension, rewrite history.

Kidding

[Brigadine]

Ummm, could be used for time travel possibly. That could lead to going back in time and giving gawd awful amounts of monies to NCSoft to purchase the game, and through extension, rewrite history.

Kidding

We could go give a condom to the Paragon employees mother/dad who decided to let a personal issue torch this game into oblivion.

[brothermutant]

We could go give a condom to the Paragon employees mother/dad who decided to let a personal issue torch this game into oblivion.

Yeah, but what are the chances they'd use it? Hell, they were passing those things around like candy back in my school, and people were still getting knocked up.

[Surelle]

We could go give a condom to the Paragon employees mother/dad who decided to let a personal issue torch this game into oblivion.

This ridiculous rumor came out of someone's overactive imagination and that's it.  You really need to dig up Back Alley Brawler's (C. Bruce's) very recent AMA on Reddit, where he explains that the reason Paragon's buyout failed was because NCSoft would not transfer active accounts and user info to them.  There were too many legalities in the way.  Let's face it, practically every player would have flipped out at the thought of losing all their characters (even the 50s), vet rewards, and cash shop purchases, and having to start all over again with the change of hands.  It has been mentioned multiple times in the more recent pages of this very thread, too.  Please stop spreading nasty rumors that have no basis in fact.

[Sinistar]

This ridiculous rumor came out of someone's overactive imagination and that's it.  You really need to dig up Back Alley Brawler's (C. Bruce's) very recent AMA on Reddit, where he explains that the reason Paragon's buyout failed was because NCSoft would not transfer active accounts and user info to them.  There were too many legalities in the way.  Let's face it, practically every player would have flipped out at the thought of losing all their characters (even the 50s), vet rewards, and cash shop purchases, and having to start all over again with the change of hands.  It has been mentioned multiple times in the more recent pages of this very thread, too.  Please stop spreading nasty rumors that have no basis in fact.

Yes losing all our characters would have been bad, but the game would still be online and it might have been possible for them to offer us a way to backup our characters similar to Sentinel. 

Plus when the game does return we'll be starting over anyway.

[ukaserex]

This ridiculous rumor came out of someone's overactive imagination and that's it.  You really need to dig up Back Alley Brawler's (C. Bruce's) very recent AMA on Reddit, where he explains that the reason Paragon's buyout failed was because NCSoft would not transfer active accounts and user info to them.  There were too many legalities in the way.  Let's face it, practically every player would have flipped out at the thought of losing all their characters (even the 50s), vet rewards, and cash shop purchases, and having to start all over again with the change of hands. It has been mentioned multiple times in the more recent pages of this very thread, too.  Please stop spreading nasty rumors that have no basis in fact.

(Bold emphasis added by me)

I think, in retrospect, most would have said, "Hmm...start over or no game...start over or no game....Okay, we'll start over!"

In fact, I think starting over from scratch would have been a hoot. It's not like the dev team at that time couldn't have continued to do some good work.

I know a lot say the game was "tired" and needed to upgrade the graphics. I say, "Hey, you got an opinion. Great. UGT Anyone? "

[Ulysses Dare]

I think, in retrospect, most would have said, "Hmm...start over or no game...start over or no game....Okay, we'll start over!"

I think that would be a common, though not universal, sentiment on this board. But the folks posting here are hardcore CoH fans. The devs always said that forum users were a minuscule faction of the total player base. I think its reasonable to expect that many of the more "casual" players would be turned off by the loss of their account info.

In addition, not having access to the user info means the game's new owner wouldn't have access to the email addresses of the player base. So they wouldn't be able to contact people and tell them about the changeover and where/how to set up a new account. Advertising and word of mouth would bring some people back but you're not going to reach everybody.

While it was profitable, CoH didn't have a huge player base. Losing just 25% of the player base (a really generous estimate given the above circumstances) could well drop the game below the threshold of profitability. I imagine that is the calculation that lead to the buyout's failure.

[Surelle]

I think that would be a common, though not universal, sentiment on this board. But the folks posting here are a hardcore CoH fans. The devs always said that forum users were a minuscule faction of the total player base. I think its reasonable to expect that many of the more "casual" players would be turned off by the loss of their account info.

In addition, not having access to the user info means the game's new owner wouldn't have access to the email addresses of the player base. So they wouldn't be able to contact people and tell them about the changeover and where/how to set up a new account. Advertising and word of mouth would bring some people back but you're not going to reach everybody.

While it was profitable, CoH didn't have a huge player base. Losing just 25% of the player base (a really generous estimate given the above circumstances) could well drop the game below the threshold of profitability. I imagine that is the calculation that lead to the buyout's failure.

Well....yeah. 

And not transferring account info with the ownership transfer of an MMO is the usual way MMO rezzes are handled, so there must be a common legal hot mess to be avoided with all of them.  Helgate: London and A.P.B.: All Points Bulletin's dev teams both went bankrupt within a year or less of each of their launches, and all their players had to start over in both games once they were re-launched under different devs/publishers.

[Ulysses Dare]

Well....yeah. 

And not transferring account info with the ownership transfer of an MMO is the usual way MMO rezzes are handled, so there must be a common legal hot mess to be avoided with all of them.  Helgate: London and A.P.B.: All Points Bulletin's dev teams both went bankrupt within a year or less of each of their launches, and all their players had to start over in both games once they were re-launched under different devs/publishers.

I can think of a couple of potential issues (and I'm sure there are others I haven't thought of):

1) Liability: Handing over your customer's private financial info, without their consent, could open you up to all kinds of civil—and even criminal—liability if something goes wrong. That would probably depend on what, if anything,  the TOS/EULA says about the sale of the game.

2) Security: Some of the people who played CoH also play other NCSoft games. For sure, NCSoft would like the people who own those accounts to play their other games. So they can't just shut those accounts down and transfer them over to the new game owners. Instead, the accounts would need to be cloned, with both NCSOFT and the new owners each having the account data. That's a huge security risk, which could easily come back and bite them. 

Unfortunately, the simple and cheap answer to all this is the one we don't want: don't sell the user data. :(

[pinballdave]

Reason #1 is enough to put the kabosh on selling the player data to a new company.

[LadyVamp]

I can think of a couple of potential issues (and I'm sure there are others I haven't thought of):

1) Liability: Handing over your customer's private financial info, without their consent, could open you up to all kinds of civil—and even criminal—liability if something goes wrong. That would probably depend on what, if anything,  the TOS/EULA says about the sale of the game.

2) Security: Some of the people who played CoH also play other NCSoft games. For sure, NCSoft would like the people who own those accounts to play their other games. So they can't just shut those accounts down and transfer them over to the new game owners. Instead, the accounts would need to be cloned, with both NCSOFT and the new owners each having the account data. That's a huge security risk, which could easily come back and bite them. 

Unfortunately, the simple and cheap answer to all this is the one we don't want: don't sell the user data. :(

Both easily solved.

#1 only requires updating the EULA/TOS to include selling the user account data.  NCSoft updated the EULA a number of times.  What's one more update?  It's not doable now of course since they've suspended all accounts so there's no way to get us to "sign" the agreement through implied acceptance of continued gaming as they did with prior updates.

#2 only requires they pull one of those "We are insisting you change your password for security reasons" many companies are doing these days.  Single user id on many websites/gaming accounts is very common for most people.  In theory, forcing different passwords should be enough.  Of course, nothing stops me from setting both sites to the same password.  Didn't say it was a good idea.  Just said I can do it.

I still maintain my position that if anyone would accept the game without the user account data, NCSoft would have found another reason not to sell. 

[Ulysses Dare]

Both easily solved.

#1 only requires updating the EULA/TOS to include selling the user account data.  NCSoft updated the EULA a number of times.  What's one more update?  It's not doable now of course since they've suspended all accounts so there's no way to get us to "sign" the agreement through implied acceptance of continued gaming as they did with prior updates.

You state the problem is easily solved and then just a minute later explain how your solution is now impossible. Clearly you and I have very different definitions of the words "easy" and "solved".

[Twisted Toon]

You state the problem is easily solved and then just a minute later explain how your solution is now impossible. Clearly you and I have very different definitions of the words "easy" and "solved".

I believe the implication was that the issue could have been easily solved before the accounts were suspended. Now, it would be rather difficult to transfer the accounts, since there are no accounts to transfer. Limited window of opportunity thing going on there, you know.

[Ulysses Dare]

I believe the implication was that the issue could have been easily solved before the accounts were suspended. Now, it would be rather difficult to transfer the accounts, since there are no accounts to transfer. Limited window of opportunity thing going on there, you know.

Why assume the accounts are gone? As I recall, all of NCSoft's games used the same login account. Since NCSoft hopes you'll play their other games, it would make sense to hang on to those accounts. Even if the accounts are separate, the CoH account data represents a treasure trove of email addresses—something NCSoft's marketing department would surely love having access to.

[Twisted Toon]

Why assume the accounts are gone? As I recall, all of NCSoft's games used the same login account. Since NCSoft hopes you'll play their other games, it would make sense to hang on to those accounts. Even if the accounts are separate, the CoH account data represents a treasure trove of email addresses—something NCSoft's marketing department would surely love having access to.

I'm sure that NCSoft still has the account info for those people that still play NCSoft games. I'm not so sure about them having the account info for those who haven't logged into an NCSoft account in 3 years. It all depends on how long they want to hold onto that info. But, I'm sure that they'll eventually delete the info for those that haven't logged into their accounts after a certain period of time. That duration between not logging in and deletion of info varies from company to company, I'm sure.

[LadyVamp]

You state the problem is easily solved and then just a minute later explain how your solution is now impossible. Clearly you and I have very different definitions of the words "easy" and "solved".

I suppose I should have said "Both were easily solved when the game was still running".  Twisted Toon inferred my meaning exactly.  For those of us still playing NCSoft hosted games, that possibility still exists they could simply update the eula to cover our accounts for past, present, and future games.  And frankly they should so they can have more freedoms.  But those who are not playing a current NCSoft hosted game would be left out in the cold.  That is unless NCSoft finds another way to update the eula in a clearly "signed" way like continued playing signifies your acceptance of the new eula with those of you not playing any NCSoft game joining another of their games.

I won't hold my breath for any such solution.  But I will say this to Cryptic Studios or any other company considering buying CoH,  I don't care if I have to start from zero.  I suspect a good number of you given the choice between starting from nothing or not having the game back would choose the former.

[LadyVamp]

Why assume the accounts are gone? As I recall, all of NCSoft's games used the same login account. Since NCSoft hopes you'll play their other games, it would make sense to hang on to those accounts. Even if the accounts are separate, the CoH account data represents a treasure trove of email addresses—something NCSoft's marketing department would surely love having access to.

I would assume those not playing any NCSoft title likely purged by now.  Of those of us still playing some NCSoft hosted title probably are on the same account or on what would be considered an evolutionary upgrade to their one account/many games platform.  I assume they have such a setup.  I would setup my user accounts that way.  Assumptions can be dangerous of course, but I suspect those are safe to make.

[Codewalker]

IIRC, NCsoft introduced a new account system to replace the master account sometime in late 2011 or early 2012. At the time it was shut down, COH was one of I think two games (I forget the other) that hadn't been migrated to the new system yet.

[LadyVamp]

There you have it.  CoH accounts put out of their misery via TATS (Turbo Account Termination System).  Why settle for nuking accounts when you can totally rip the head off of the system storing the accounts.