New efforts!

[Baaleos]

Really?  Since the shut down I've sampled as many other MMO's as I can find, to try to find *something* that interests me half as much as CoH, and when I see most of them I think... "God, CoH looked better than this."

I don't disagree with you- 
I loved CoH when it was around, but as good as the character creator was, the combat engine and even the lore and the backstories- its a dated game, and many game studios would rather make a new game than resurrect one that was killed because of diminishing player numbers. They would need to do something significant to mitigate the risk that it would just happen again.
Eg: Updated graphics engine, texture resolutions etc : Eg: 2k / 4k resolutions. I'm not even sure if the game operates at the more recent monitor resolutions.

Also - one of the reason why there hasnt been another game like CoH since CoH - Maybe dev studios are too scared to make a superhero game in case it incurs the copyright issue.
NCSoft ended up tangled in that nasty affair with Marvel - they settled in the end, but a new dev studio who use CoH as a basis of inspiration might be scared to try to create something similar, incase they too end up getting dragged into court to see something they toiled away on for weeks, months, years be eventually discontinued due to court demands or license fees.

[ukaserex]

I keep hearing how CoH was "dated" - the game engine, the graphics, etc.

So what? While I understand new content was a chore to produce and publish - there wasn't anything wrong with the old content, and with AE, there was always new content. It may not have jived with the CoH lore, but it was there for those who took the time to play it.

I don't think I realized back then what sheer cutting edge genius that AE was! Player defined content! Sure, some of it was silly, or stupid. A lot of farming. But there were some good stories, too. And they did all that with their feeble game engine.

I know a lot felt the game was "tired", but I never felt like that. I was one of those guys who would have been content with issue 4 and no other updates. ( I picked the game up by random chance, had never heard of it before, just picked it up as a present to myself, right before Christmas.)

But, I guess I was in the minority. Nothing new there.

[Brigadine]

A lot of them were made before Ultra mode was a thing, too. Or have graphics settings turned down so their recording software can get a decent framerate.

I've noticed my recording software sometimes records at a lower quality than what its set up as. Super weird I know, but a 1080p recording of a game running at 1080p doesn't look like the 1080p game sometimes.

[Baaleos]

I keep hearing how CoH was "dated" - the game engine, the graphics, etc.

So what? While I understand new content was a chore to produce and publish - there wasn't anything wrong with the old content, and with AE, there was always new content. It may not have jived with the CoH lore, but it was there for those who took the time to play it.

I don't think I realized back then what sheer cutting edge genius that AE was! Player defined content! Sure, some of it was silly, or stupid. A lot of farming. But there were some good stories, too. And they did all that with their feeble game engine.

I know a lot felt the game was "tired", but I never felt like that. I was one of those guys who would have been content with issue 4 and no other updates. ( I picked the game up by random chance, had never heard of it before, just picked it up as a present to myself, right before Christmas.)

But, I guess I was in the minority. Nothing new there.

Perhaps the term 'dated' is too broad and being misunderstood to be a heavy negative.
I mean comparative speaking, City of Heroes is a very old game, built on a very old engine : graphics etc, compared to lush beautiful graphics that you can get in the more modern games.
I will say it again : I love City of Heroes - I WISH it would come back, the gameplay was amazing, I loved the physics interactions with powers and all sorts of things. There are so many things from CoH that I just wish the existing MMO's would do, but I am always disappointed, cause no MMO gets it right.

However the realist in me has to wonder, what developer out there is going to want to work with decades old technology to resurrect a game franchise that was discontinued due to declining player numbers. Its not exactly good for a Developers CV to say that they went from working on Unreal Engine 5/6 to working on <Insert City of Heroes Engine here>.
Thats like saying to an employer, Oh, I worked in Entity Framework 6 for 3 years, and then regressed back to Entity Framework 2.
Or better yet : I worked in C# for 4 years, but got tired of it so I started working in VB 6.

Developers generally like to work on the latest technologies because they are more marketable and they eventually become a feather in their cap.
The odd exception to this rule is the banking industry where quite alot of legacy <stuff> is in Cobol - which can be a highly sought after skill set for banking firms.

So don't get me wrong - I do wish that CoH would be resurrected, the realist in me just feels that it is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment as the resurrection of CoH doesn't logically make sense unless something fundamental was changed.
Eg: It needs to compete with rival MMOs
Yes: Graphically it needs to compete - I know that sounds shallow, but it happens - gamers don't go out and spend $1000 on a graphics card to play a game that runs ultra mode on a $40 graphics card. Either Ultra mode is poor, or the game company discovered the holy grail of graphics processing and are keeping it close to their chests.

Gameplay wise - I think CoH was nigh perfect.
I just think it would have difficulty competing with many of the visually beautiful games of 'today'.

- And that competition, is on both sides.
Getting Developers who want to choose City of Heroes, over working on a project like Elder Scrolls Online : Something that would be more recognizable on a CV.
Similarly
The patrons of Titan Network in favor of CoH might feel like a vast large community, but comparatively speaking - its a niche group, with larger groups of people off enjoying games like Diablo 3 or Warframe, or dare I say it - WoW (washes mouth out with soap).
Its important to us - because City of Heroes was personal to us - Getting other people to care, when they never played city of heroes is always going to be an upwards struggle.
Thats why my work colleague was generally uninterested in City of Heroes when he saw it on youtube.

[kiario]

To me both the graphics and sound/music is still top notch. Incredible use of colors and effects in game. The polygon count is low but that does not matter so much.

Still today i would stop playing all my other favorite games if coh came bacl

[RGladden]

My take on the games' appeal is this;  CoH was greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't look at each in isolation.  It's when you take them all together that the game works its magic;  character creator, animation, story line, power sets, AE, scenery, and last but not least, the community itself.

[ukaserex]

However the realist in me has to wonder, what developer out there is going to want to work with decades old technology to resurrect a game franchise that was discontinued due to declining player numbers. Its not exactly good for a Developers CV to say that they went from working on Unreal Engine 5/6 to working on <Insert City of Heroes Engine here>.
Thats like saying to an employer, Oh, I worked in Entity Framework 6 for 3 years, and then regressed back to Entity Framework 2.
Or better yet : I worked in C# for 4 years, but got tired of it so I started working in VB 6.

Developers generally like to work on the latest technologies because they are more marketable and they eventually become a feather in their cap.
The odd exception to this rule is the banking industry where quite alot of legacy <stuff> is in Cobol - which can be a highly sought after skill set for banking firms.

So don't get me wrong - I do wish that CoH would be resurrected, the realist in me just feels that it is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment as the resurrection of CoH doesn't logically make sense unless something fundamental was changed.
Eg: It needs to compete with rival MMOs
Yes: Graphically it needs to compete - I know that sounds shallow, but it happens - gamers don't go out and spend $1000 on a graphics card to play a game that runs ultra mode on a $40 graphics card. Either Ultra mode is poor, or the game company discovered the holy grail of graphics processing and are keeping it close to their chests.

You make a lot of good points from the Dev side. I should be more cognizant of that perspective, given my job. (Executive recruiter - For some, it's all about whether the next job will look good on a candidates resume. )

But, I do want to nitpick about one statement. The game wasn't shut down due to declining player base. The numbers were actually on the rise. Paid, subscribed players - probably not - but the F2P model certainly brought them a lot of revenue to make up for that. At least, I believe that's what we were told by exiting developers. It was at a profit - just not the mind-numbing profit of the other games in NCSoft's portfolio.

The thing is - the challenge of working on that old engine - sure, it would be a hard sell to talk a new developer into accepting such a role - but - being able to say you've done X and you've done Y only makes you more marketable. Still, in the long run, the headaches would have been nigh insurmountable. Just a shame they didn't spend the resources to port the game over to a new engine - which would have cost them a ton - with no real expectation of increased profits. For every person who says they would have tried the game, you'd need about 100 of them to do so to get one loyal player. And NCSoft was never about advertising much..

Still - very good points!

[Arcana]

Perhaps the term 'dated' is too broad and being misunderstood to be a heavy negative.
I mean comparative speaking, City of Heroes is a very old game, built on a very old engine : graphics etc, compared to lush beautiful graphics that you can get in the more modern games.
I will say it again : I love City of Heroes - I WISH it would come back, the gameplay was amazing, I loved the physics interactions with powers and all sorts of things. There are so many things from CoH that I just wish the existing MMO's would do, but I am always disappointed, cause no MMO gets it right.

However the realist in me has to wonder, what developer out there is going to want to work with decades old technology to resurrect a game franchise that was discontinued due to declining player numbers. Its not exactly good for a Developers CV to say that they went from working on Unreal Engine 5/6 to working on <Insert City of Heroes Engine here>.
Thats like saying to an employer, Oh, I worked in Entity Framework 6 for 3 years, and then regressed back to Entity Framework 2.
Or better yet : I worked in C# for 4 years, but got tired of it so I started working in VB 6.

Developers generally like to work on the latest technologies because they are more marketable and they eventually become a feather in their cap.
The odd exception to this rule is the banking industry where quite alot of legacy <stuff> is in Cobol - which can be a highly sought after skill set for banking firms.

So don't get me wrong - I do wish that CoH would be resurrected, the realist in me just feels that it is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment as the resurrection of CoH doesn't logically make sense unless something fundamental was changed.
Eg: It needs to compete with rival MMOs
Yes: Graphically it needs to compete - I know that sounds shallow, but it happens - gamers don't go out and spend $1000 on a graphics card to play a game that runs ultra mode on a $40 graphics card. Either Ultra mode is poor, or the game company discovered the holy grail of graphics processing and are keeping it close to their chests.

Gameplay wise - I think CoH was nigh perfect.
I just think it would have difficulty competing with many of the visually beautiful games of 'today'.

- And that competition, is on both sides.
Getting Developers who want to choose City of Heroes, over working on a project like Elder Scrolls Online : Something that would be more recognizable on a CV.
Similarly
The patrons of Titan Network in favor of CoH might feel like a vast large community, but comparatively speaking - its a niche group, with larger groups of people off enjoying games like Diablo 3 or Warframe, or dare I say it - WoW (washes mouth out with soap).
Its important to us - because City of Heroes was personal to us - Getting other people to care, when they never played city of heroes is always going to be an upwards struggle.
Thats why my work colleague was generally uninterested in City of Heroes when he saw it on youtube.

All good points.  However, consider this.  A lot of people get into the game industry starting off as modders, and many of those mod games that themselves use technology that is far behind the current state of the art.  Some of those technical skills involving using the actual engines of the games are not directly transferable to any other game because they are unique to that game.  But the more general skills of using standard 3D modelling and other such tools are transferable, and those would be the same for City of Heroes or any other game (things like Maya, AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc).  And when it comes to creating content, the skills involved in creating compelling content within the limitations of whatever game systems you have at your disposal is also a general skill.  So working on a game like City of Heroes would provide general experience in making games if nothing else.

Also, consider that the Paragon developers themselves had years of experience writing content for a ten year old engine and they were able to get jobs elsewhere (at least, a majority of them appeared to).  If was just about as "obsolete" at shutdown as it is now.  Clearly, that experience was useful and transferable in at least some fashion, and considered valuable by other game development companies.

Finally, just how many MMOs are there that allow its playerbase to experiment with making content for it?  Hypothetically speaking, if this was possible in a resurrected CoH, how many allow for modders to experiment with the client and server software?  Under the right conditions, City of Heroes could be not just a game for players, but a playground for modders and experimenters.  I'm not saying that will happen, but someone who wanted to drum up interest in people working on the game could create the circumstances to encourage it.  So it is not out of the realm of possibility.

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.  Steal the powerhouse from Champions Online to allow players a way to quickly test builds and maybe there's something there.

[nicoliy]

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.  Steal the powerhouse from Champions Online to allow players a way to quickly test builds and maybe there's something there.

After FFXI was announced for mobile my first thought was that CoH would make a great candidate for the transition. Assuming you could use adapt the GUI to be mobile friendly it could work out well. Maybe it's just another wishlist item I my head lol.

[Surelle]

All good points.  However, consider this.  A lot of people get into the game industry starting off as modders, and many of those mod games that themselves use technology that is far behind the current state of the art.  Some of those technical skills involving using the actual engines of the games are not directly transferable to any other game because they are unique to that game.  But the more general skills of using standard 3D modelling and other such tools are transferable, and those would be the same for City of Heroes or any other game (things like Maya, AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc).  And when it comes to creating content, the skills involved in creating compelling content within the limitations of whatever game systems you have at your disposal is also a general skill.  So working on a game like City of Heroes would provide general experience in making games if nothing else.

Also, consider that the Paragon developers themselves had years of experience writing content for a ten year old engine and they were able to get jobs elsewhere (at least, a majority of them appeared to).  If was just about as "obsolete" at shutdown as it is now.  Clearly, that experience was useful and transferable in at least some fashion, and considered valuable by other game development companies.

Finally, just how many MMOs are there that allow its playerbase to experiment with making content for it?  Hypothetically speaking, if this was possible in a resurrected CoH, how many allow for modders to experiment with the client and server software?  Under the right conditions, City of Heroes could be not just a game for players, but a playground for modders and experimenters.  I'm not saying that will happen, but someone who wanted to drum up interest in people working on the game could create the circumstances to encourage it.  So it is not out of the realm of possibility.

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.  Steal the powerhouse from Champions Online to allow players a way to quickly test builds and maybe there's something there.

These are terrific ideas, and someone should suggest these things to NCSoft.   They're so big on developing mobile games now, maybe they would consider a new CoX mobile game.  Although without Paragon Studios, it would never be the same.....

[Biz]

My take on the games' appeal is this;  CoH was greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't look at each in isolation.  It's when you take them all together that the game works its magic;  character creator, animation, story line, power sets, AE, scenery, and last but not least, the community itself.

Absolutely this. The synergy between everything made it what it was. You can't just point to one thing that "defined" CoH, because each component contributed to the symphony of the game.

[Felderburg]

the devs

What devs?

[Azrael]

Finally, just how many MMOs are there that allow its playerbase to experiment with making content for it?  Hypothetically speaking, if this was possible in a resurrected CoH, how many allow for modders to experiment with the client and server software?  Under the right conditions, City of Heroes could be not just a game for players, but a playground for modders and experimenters.  I'm not saying that will happen, but someone who wanted to drum up interest in people working on the game could create the circumstances to encourage it.  So it is not out of the realm of possibility.

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.

As juggernauts like the iPad sell tens of millions per quarter with A8/A9 chips in them I can't help wonder that City of Heroes would be fantastic on an iPad Pro and that NC Soft are missing a trick by not having CoH on the 'App' store.  There's plenty of retro titles, vaults and opportunities there.  In app purchases for the CoH 'store.'  If NC Soft wanted to get to get back into the USA market.  I'd start here.  There's a billion Mac and iOS devices out there.  If one thinks about CoH creatively then it could be a gold mine.  Ten years old or not.

As an aside.  You've got to give it to Blizzard and WoW.  They played their hand very well.  *Hint.  'Lego bricks.'

As for 'modding.'  Yes, we've seen relatively old tech' create fan obsessed communities. 

With the 'teasing' previous posts by Leandro and others from the SCoRE team...about zone editors for CoH *(thinks...), the fabled CoH costume creator itself and the unparalleled AE mission creator...the opportunity is there for the community to 'carry the torch' to make CoH a true community 'mod' game.  To create a game the developers perhaps never could.  Aka.  A 'force multiplier.'  There are talented people in the CoH community.  I have no doubt the game will one day return.

Slowly, slowly catch a monkey.

Azrael.

[LaughingAlex]

All good points.  However, consider this.  A lot of people get into the game industry starting off as modders, and many of those mod games that themselves use technology that is far behind the current state of the art.  Some of those technical skills involving using the actual engines of the games are not directly transferable to any other game because they are unique to that game.  But the more general skills of using standard 3D modelling and other such tools are transferable, and those would be the same for City of Heroes or any other game (things like Maya, AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc).  And when it comes to creating content, the skills involved in creating compelling content within the limitations of whatever game systems you have at your disposal is also a general skill.  So working on a game like City of Heroes would provide general experience in making games if nothing else.

Also, consider that the Paragon developers themselves had years of experience writing content for a ten year old engine and they were able to get jobs elsewhere (at least, a majority of them appeared to).  If was just about as "obsolete" at shutdown as it is now.  Clearly, that experience was useful and transferable in at least some fashion, and considered valuable by other game development companies.

Finally, just how many MMOs are there that allow its playerbase to experiment with making content for it?  Hypothetically speaking, if this was possible in a resurrected CoH, how many allow for modders to experiment with the client and server software?  Under the right conditions, City of Heroes could be not just a game for players, but a playground for modders and experimenters.  I'm not saying that will happen, but someone who wanted to drum up interest in people working on the game could create the circumstances to encourage it.  So it is not out of the realm of possibility.

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.  Steal the powerhouse from Champions Online to allow players a way to quickly test builds and maybe there's something there.

I think everything you mentioned would push CoX very well into the spotlight when modding is available.  As many have said, CoH was a sum of it's parts, not a game in which one or two things held it up and everything was icing on the cake.  And modding is ultimately the best thing when a game is truely great thank to being a sum of it's parts.  I think though that mmorpgs lack of modding support is the most damaging thing to the industry right now.  Games that can be well modded far out-last games that cannot be modded.  And mods also influence the industry on the whole.  The lack of mod support for mmorpgs could very well be one of the core reasons mmorpgs have had such a poor level of innovation that people overlook.

Lets take a look at other games and how mods helped them move forward, particularly, bethesda games;
Oblivion
Fallout 3
New Vegas(I know, not purely bethesda but it is published and it is essentially a stand alone of fallout 3)
Skyrim
Fallout 4

Lets look at oblivion.  What noteworthy mods came out for it?  Deadly Reflex.  Giving players the ability to instantly kill npc's with melee weapons with decapitation moves.  While it was anything but realistic(in fact it had lots of hollywood ninja wire physics), it had a profound influence on Fallout 3/Vegas and Skyrim.  In skyrim, the game had finisher moves that'd trigger on similar circumstances to deadly reflexes.  Of course, Skyrim handled it much more realistically(no full bicapitations and no over elaborate wire ninja flips).

Then lets look at fallout 3 and new vegas, and the Wasteland wanderer edition and Project: Nevada.  Sprinting!  Dump action points into raw speed!  Move forward once again to skyrim, and lo and behold, sprinting in the game.  Also the mod had bullet time, although it was already in the game before.  I will get to that later with fallout 4.

Fallout 3 also had a mod called weapon mod kits.  Let you modify and customize guns.  Cool and all, but what did new vegas add?  Weapon modifications.  And custom ammo types.  This was also in a way influenced from knowledge of mods.

New Vegas itself also had the benefit of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, the man himself was on it's development team in designing the danger of the areas.  New vegas's world had a more harsh and unforgiving feel to it than fallout 3 since nothing was leveled to the player like it was in fallout 3.

So now we come all the way to fallout 4 and how everything adds together.  The game had sprinting just like skyrim did, and it worked fully identialy to project nevada's sprint feature.  Weapon modding was taken to a full eleven in the game to.  Project Nevada's bullet time also half made it into Fallout 4 in how VATS was implemented, as both bullet time and fallout 3's VATs.

Another feature Project Nevada had was weapon overcharging.  Once again we got to see this with fallout 4 with both the Laser Musket(reloading to overcharge), laser rifle(give it a sniper barrel, it charges up on it's own), and Gauss Rifle.  Not to mention DLC's adding weapons functioning similarly.  Additionally it's very construction system is influenced by a mod for new vegas.

All these things are due to mods, though, and these innovations that affected very game in skyrim and fallout 4 are just the tip of the ice berg.  Hell, everyones least favorite shooter type, the Modern Military Shooter, started as a mod for Half life called Counter Strike.

I don't need to stress how Counter Strike became it's own game.  And the same as we all know happened with Team Fortress :).

[Harpospoke]

Awww man....saw 20 new pages and thought some news had dropped.     ...Funny how that little fear creeped in that it was bad news.     I like to think it would be 100 new pages if good news dropped.

I am a musician and composer and I spend 8-10 hours a day every day studying and practicing.  In fact some the greatest creative minds in history would argue talent is nothing more then hard work.  Whether it be Mozart or Twayla Tharp.  The talent in people like Mozart or even today's Joey Alexander is the ability to constantly work.  Something tells me Joey Alexanders parents don't have to tell him to practice 8 hours a day.  He probably just does.  The famous painting of Beethoven shows him writing his symphony in nature with complete ease and effort.  While if you study his actual hand written work it is constantly second guessed and changed.  It is almost unreadable it is has been worked on so much.  It was clearly not effortless.

Mozart once said "It is a mistake to think that the practice of my art has become easy to me. I assure you, dear friend, no one has given so much care to the study of composition as I."

By the time Mozart was 28 his hand's were deformed he had played so much. I would argue no musician is capable of creating something brilliant without years of study. 

A writer once told me.  Creativity equals butt plus chair.  Twyala Tharp has a whole book about how her creative process is nothing more then a daily routine.

I don't believe in "natural geniuses."  Not Mozart, not Joey Alexander, not Einstein.  All of them worked their ass off to get where they were.  Talent is nothing then the love and understanding of a topic.

I mostly agree.   No "musical genius" got to that point without hours and hours of what some would label "work".   It takes a lot of time for something to look effortless.   That's probably what fools people into thinking some are born with a gift.    I often talk to people at shows who express a desire to play guitar...but claim they don't have any talent.    I'm always quick to point out the main thing musicians have is stubbornness.    We started out sucking just as bad as everyone else, but refused to give up until we could do it.   I think you are right on with that.

Having said that however....I've been around enough musicians to notice some are able to learn quicker than others.   That's the "gift".   I know one bass player who is almost perfect.   She makes a mistake about once a year.  (which gets looks from the rest of the band..."Hey!  Darla made a mistake!")    Her ear is so developed (through hours of listening) that she would just walk into practice and ask what key were were playing a new song in and just PLAY it without having to work on it.    Drove me crazy in a good way.    Another musician I know learned to play drums in about 6 months for a one-off Halloween show we did.

Another thing musicians may have that you mentioned relates to why I put "work" in quotes.    It's doesn't really feel like working to me.   I'll sit around with a guitar in my hands for hours and it never feels like I'm forcing myself to do it.   Pretty easy to get better when you can't wait to practice.   How much of that is a person born with?   I dunno.

I do know I can remember exactly where I was when I heard a song on the radio for the first time.   (4 years old)   And I was trying to write songs as an 8 year old.    How much of this stuff we are born with is debatable, but I've always suspected we are born with more of our personality traits in place than most would assume.

...And what was Einstein's alleged definition of insanity?   ;)

The author of that quote never took musicians into account.   They constantly do the same thing over and over and get different results (improved playing).   We call it "practice".    ;D

....Or was the author claiming musicians are insane??    :-\

[Harpospoke]

I don't think I realized back then what sheer cutting edge genius that AE was! Player defined content! Sure, some of it was silly, or stupid. A lot of farming. But there were some good stories, too. And they did all that with their feeble game engine.

I felt the same.   There was some really clever stuff in the AE.    Best thing was to go on the forums and check the thread where people announced their new missions.   I thought it was awesome.

[darkgob]

Awww man....saw 20 new pages and thought some news had dropped.

Uh, 20 new pages since when?  On my end, 20 pages was over 2 weeks ago.

[Fireheart]

Heck, we could get 20 pages out of a new Joshex "revelation".

Be Well!
Fireheart

[Baaleos]

As to making it interesting for new players, I dunno.  I think it is less a question of making the game more attractive to those that aren't interested, and finding a way to make the game accessible to those that would find it attractive.  Maybe port it to mobile, where the lower complexity and graphics intensiveness would actually work in its favor.  Make the costume creator a separate standalone component so people can play around with that.  Streamline newspaper missions so they can be completed in five minutes or less for casual players wanting a quick fix.  Of all the triple-A desktop MMOs out there, City of Heroes would seem to be the best suited for a mobile conversion given its much more casual gameplay, strong instancing, strong soloing, and elements like the character creator.  Steal the powerhouse from Champions Online to allow players a way to quickly test builds and maybe there's something there.

I think there is lots of potential there - but it would have to be done right.
If they got hold of the IP, then it certainly does open up avenues for new platforms for the game to be hosted on.
Imagine City of Heroes on Playstation, XBox and PC.

If they did get the IP - I would expect that there would be an overhaul on the graphics anyway, to appeal to the new generation of players.


Or even on Mobile devices - I am hesitant about the mobile devices one though. I've tried playing Isometric mmo's on ipad, and it was not the most intuitive gaming experience.

Back when City of Heroes was out - I don't think many game companies had considered using consoles for MMO's.
Remembering back, multiplayer session based games was probably the height of console gaming around that time, it wasn't till later that consoles really became feasible for use for online play.
(If I remember correctly, PS2 had to have a special extension cable that enabled internet, it wasn't until PS3 when wifi became built in that online play became widespread on the playstation console and then you started to see Console games branching into the MMO market.)

Even then - there are other games that potential developers could draw inspiration from.
Anyone here tried that game 'Watchdogs' - it had a nice multiplayer competitive game mode where you could use your iphone or ipad, to control the cities infrastructure, to try and kill the player who is driving around .

Imagine some sort of integration in City of Heroes - where you could use your iPad or iPhone and log in and remote control Bosses or EB's or dare I say it : Giant Monsters.
Play as a Giant Monster, would be fun - bring human intelligence to the Giant Monsters.

For instanced missions - this wouldn't be too much of a hassle : More players = > More instanced missions, so as an iPad user, you just get entered into a queue waiting for a players instanced mission boss to spawn - then you control him.

For open world Giant Monsters - might be trickier - perhaps make it so every instanced mission that the player controls the boss in - they get a few tokens, which then can be traded in for Giant Monster control rights. Every 100 tokens = 1 session of controlling the giant monster.
Different giant monsters = different prices.

Babbage = 250
Ghost Ship = 500  (Unique Play-style - you guide the ship, and direct the ghosts to attack players/npcs as the ship passes)
Rikti Invasion - 1000 : (Unique Fun playstyle) You remote control the path of the Rikti Ship, targetting players and dropping bombs
Lusca - 650 : Choose spawn point : allocate targets to tentacles


Then of course you get badges

'Ghost Captain'  - You steered the ghostly ship
'Collaborator' - You collaborated with the Rikti, and captained one of their invasion ships.
'Spirit of the Depths' - You briefly experienced the power of Lusca, controlling the beast with your mind.


Such a paradigm could be fun - Imagine as you level up your boss/eb/giant monster control experience, you eventually get to participate in raids and all sorts of things.
Players competing against your player controlled bosses - would be rewarded for besting a human mind.
You the controller of the boss / monster, would be rewarded for giving them a challenge.

I am kinda seeing mobile devices as a means of players becoming 'Dungeon Masters' in City of Heroes (yes - I know this isn't dungeons and dragons....)

[Tubbius]

I felt the same.   There was some really clever stuff in the AE.    Best thing was to go on the forums and check the thread where people announced their new missions.   I thought it was awesome.

Thank you for this kind of commentary.  As an avid AE writer who possibly wrote the last AE arc to go live ("PENGUIN Part 4: Waddle On" went live around 8 p.m. Eastern and got 6 hits of feedback before close), I pushed for the creative side of the Architect Entertainment, trying to get people to realize it was more than just a bunch of farms and nonsense missions.

Should we get the game back and should the AE even function, I definitely aim to continue with "PENGUIN Part 5: Waddle Home" and to rework the storyline for "Hammer and Sickle of Paragon City."

And that raises another question: if the arcs still exist in the AE system, how would they ever match up with their creators for editing purposes?  Merely by the coincidence of a global name shared with the original identity?  Or would the AE potentially be wiped to start from scratch?  Or would it even work at all for the creation of new arcs, if it were merely running from a permanent "last day" state?  It would certainly be disappointing to lose access to that part of the game.

Good thing I saved all the old AE arc files for my missions.  :)  Recreating them would take time, but it would be time well spent if I ever got the chance.