New efforts!

[Burnt Toast]

Please just stop. You used to be cute and funny; like a crazy uncle that people want to talk to for 5 to 10 minutes before conveniently finding an excuse to walk away (Is that my phone ringing?).


You've gone from mildly entertaining to creepy Heaven's Gate psychopathy mixed with the ego of David Koresh for good measure.

The reason I make such a big deal of this is because my theory directly postulates the blueprints for a G-diffuser, not only is that dangerous to put in the hands of the world, but it's also relatively simple to make.

[Shibboleth]

Got another one for you: My Bloody Valentine entered development hell in 1991 and finally released an album in 2013... 22 years later.  How's that for an exercise in patience?

The Cathedral of St. John the Divine began construction in 1892 and 124 years later is still not complete.

I do have to say that if CoH returns 124+ years after it closed I doubt I will be around for it.

[Shibboleth]

Honestly, there are people who have moved on. But I also think that some of the people saying they won't go back if they don't get their stuff back will reconsider if the game makes it live again.

]

Quite frankly, I enjoy(ed) the process of playing up characters in CoH. I'd be quite happy to remake my characters and play them up. . .even the ones that didn't work out quite as planned.

[Brigadine]

Well, I can understand being upset at having lost everything, but by now I think many realize that when the game returns it will be starting over again. 

The big deal breaker is whether or not NCSoft would have any control at all over the game's rebirth and future.

NCSoft prone to killing MMO's and they did make many CoH players rather.....irate....with the shutdown.

Personally, I just am frustrated by how fracking long this is taking. I understand corporate wheels turn slow but good lord. From a legal standpoint there simply could not be 3 years worth of hurdles if the deal was ongoing or stood any chance. I genuinely feel like they've been yanking our hose...

[LateNights]

At the end of the day, while a small group of MMOers would likely play here and there for free, only a very small portion of people would pay to play CoH again.  We've had discussions like that here before, and out of the maybe 30 of us that post on CoH Titan, multiple peeps immediately gave this or that excuse why they wouldn't pay to play it.  If even the rabid fans here are not willing to pay, I doubt too many casual MMOers are going to, either.  How would a server cluster even keep running?  Is it fair to ask everyone to volunteer to run CoH? And who would pay millions of dollars to lease the IP, with the investors knowing they would never get that money back?

Some payment is fair - it's going to cost someone money to bring the game back - but I hope they don't treat it like its a new game, rather than an old one being resurrected because the people doing so loved it...

Hopefully they can monkey up some way to provide a lifetime sub!!

[Taceus Jiwede]

I genuinely feel like they've been yanking our hose...

I doubt it.  It may be personal for you but it sure as hell isn't personal for NCSoft.  Dangling a product in front of someone you have no intent of selling seems rather petty and even more importantly time consuming.  They clearly have never had an issue saying no before.

Unless you think Nate is yanking your chain.  Which if that is the case.  Clearly he isn't.

[Twisted Toon]

Age isn't the main issue here:  It's MONEY, lol.  Did those games have to pay millions of dollars to lease their IPs, or even try to convince a game-killer MMO publisher (who is, at this very moment, getting ready behind the scenes to shutter yet another of its MMOs that has only been around about a year) who has never leased or rezzed one of its dead IPs ever, to finally do so?

Nope, sorry, these comparisons are not valid to our situation here.

Well, someone ealier in the thread said

mstk is a fairly unique tv show that only needs advertisers. COH is an mmo that has plenty of competition and requires subscribers. people are still watching green acres reruns. dont expect any mmo to last that long

I think that makes most of the responses that deal with length of time somewhat valid.

It might not be what you were specifically talking about, but they are valid comparisons when taken as responses to the duration of other shows/games/thingies.

[Baaleos]

Please just stop. You used to be cute and funny; like a crazy uncle that people want to talk to for 5 to 10 minutes before conveniently finding an excuse to walk away (Is that my phone ringing?).


You've gone from mildly entertaining to creepy Heaven's Gate psychopathy mixed with the ego of David Koresh for good measure.

Lol - I used to come to this thread for CoH news, now I come just to read the next Joshex article on 'The Natural World'.

[hurple]

Personally, I just am frustrated by how fracking long this is taking. I understand corporate wheels turn slow but good lord. From a legal standpoint there simply could not be 3 years worth of hurdles if the deal was ongoing or stood any chance. I genuinely feel like they've been yanking our hose...

It's always fun to watch someone wake up to reality... 

[duane]

Unless you think Nate is yanking your chain.  Which if that is the case.  Clearly he isn't.

If there was any shenanigans I am positive TonyV (and all the Titan admins) would have nipped it in the bud in the early days.  I have no reason to believe all these people are colluding to make a fool of  the COH community And all those that check in on this forum.

we can only guess this thing is a horrendous mess of issues.  Nate is the one who will tell us when it's  dead or otherwise.  I can only guess at my own rationale why I check this damn thread so often.

[Baaleos]

They probably started out very enthusiastic with bringing back CoH, then they thought....
'Hold on... I just need to finish this Villain Onslaught mission on Champions Online, to get enough tokens for a Onslaught Device!!'

As fun as CoH is -
The graphics engine it uses is quite dated compared to other games of similar genre.

I am not a CoH hater - I loved the game play, it was unique among its peers.
I just don't see the feasibility of it being bought back in its original dated form. It would be counter productive and a huge money drain.

Now, what might happen:
The rights of the game could be acquired, any source code or resources from the original game could then be used to create derivative materials to form a potential sequal to the game.
One that could compete with Champions Online, DC Universe Online and so on.

[Tubbius]

They probably started out very enthusiastic with bringing back CoH, then they thought....
'Hold on... I just need to finish this Villain Onslaught mission on Champions Online, to get enough tokens for a Onslaught Device!!'

As fun as CoH is -
The graphics engine it uses is quite dated compared to other games of similar genre.

I am not a CoH hater - I loved the game play, it was unique among its peers.
I just don't see the feasibility of it being bought back in its original dated form. It would be counter productive and a huge money drain.

Now, what might happen:
The rights of the game could be acquired, any source code or resources from the original game could then be used to create derivative materials to form a potential sequal to the game.
One that could compete with Champions Online, DC Universe Online and so on.

I hate to say this. . . but City of Heroes competed with those games just fine when it was around.

[Azrael]

I hate to say this. . . but City of Heroes competed with those games just fine when it was around.

Spot on.

CoX was better at launch than Champions Beta, after Beta.  Or even now.  DC Universe.  Very 'arcade-y.'  Pew-pew.  Champions.  Pew-pew.  *(Let me get my 'X-Box controller...')  CoX had them licked.  Despite the apparently dated 'graphics engine' which looks just find with ultra mode on.  The zone graphics look spot on to me.

Champions had terrible design.  A massive launch day nerf.  And it's the 'walking dead' of MMOs.

CoH had... better combat.  Better powers.  Better mobs.  Better hierarchy of mobs.  Better 'tank in the middle' of tons of mobs.  Better combat feel.  Ballet kinetic.  Better animation.  Better teaming.  Better archetypes.  Better interface.  Better main character animation.  Better zones.  Better content and missions.  Better interface.  Better graphics.  (Not as cheesy. ie.  I liked the painted bitmaps vs sub-human plastic model look.)  Better mittens.  Better zone music.  Better ambience.  Better chat backspace beep.  (Love that sound...) 

I can't remember anything CoH did worse than Champions pre Issue ED issue 4 or after.  Champions came along with its re-skinned CoH engine (so my duo-partner thought...) and it had the sucky stamina builder, a cheap staccato mob animation budget, pull one, pull them all, 'tanks' (derisory laugh...), 'pew-pew' (yeah, that's right, the 'stamina builder...'), arcade-y combat, terrible 'frog man' main character alt animation...empty square mission 'design', compromised design mouse vs arcade controller (pew-pew, I said that already?) with kill or dead combat, frost breath was worse too...  Eh. Many of the powers sets had good ideas.  But were half baked.  'Some' of the power sets had 'some' nice powers.  The axe/hammer power set was ok.  The energy power set was ok.  With rubbish forcefield.

CoH?

Once again.  Simply.  Core areas.  Design is king.  Part design part cosmic accident/lightning in a bottle?

0.  Character builder and archetypes ( and the endless ways to build alts and the endless variations of blends of types in a team...)
0.  Combat and Powers.
1.  Mobs & mob progression.
2.  Zones & levelling progression.
3.  Interface.  Easy to use.
4.  Teaming & chat window & Community.
5.  Animation and ambience.
5.  Backspace 'beep' chat sound.

These areas.  THESE.  CoX could not be built.

CoH.  Like the Millennium Falcon.  She may not look like much, but, 'kid'(!) she's got it where it counts...

Azrael.

[nicoliy]

As much as I love my new shiny games, there is something about the style of CoH that I just love.

Even today there are times I just hop around in Paragon Chat and explore zones. The graphics are dated, but they still do it for me. Honestly it is probably part nostalgia and part love of the art style.

I think I'll always love the progression of going from training at Ms. Liberty to fighting Skulls in the Agrosy Industry Area (I'm butchering the names I bet), and then into Perez Park. Hell any time I pass one of those transformer station areas IRL I think of fighting the Clockwork in KR.

I think that the zones felt like they could be cities somewhere, and the fantasy areas were still real enough to be believable-ish (excluding things like Shadow Shard). The only thing I ever really wish was updated was the fingers on characters lol.

Maybe a newer engine would suit the game fine as well, but in the end I'd be fine with it as is.

[switch]

 personaly i dont give a crud about the age of the game  i played for 8yrs on a pos  dell  so cpu graphics were bad   it was the game play the community  the uniqueness to every toon and costume  and the powersets  no  game today has the powerset  thats one of the problems today  everyone wants super shiney and this  that and everything   since the shutdown ive tryed a few games  didnt last long  wasnt as fun  to me   i can spend hrs in costume creater then run around in PC  listenting to the sounds and seeing the zones and have more fun  and feel at home  then any  mmo  today    and now that i have a new pc  playing would not only look great  compared to what i use to see lol  it would be home   gaming  has lost its fun and luster to me  cuz nothing will ever be or replace   coh  i would rather pay to play a game i love and has emontional attachment  and older  engine graphics ect  then to play something that  feels just like a game  or a job with all the grinding  ect in todays mmo's

[worldweary]

personaly i dont give a crud about the age of the game  i played for 8yrs on a pos  dell  so cpu graphics were bad   it was the game play the community  the uniqueness to every toon and costume  and the powersets  no  game today has the powerset  thats one of the problems today  everyone wants super shiney and this  that and everything   since the shutdown ive tryed a few games  didnt last long  wasnt as fun  to me   i can spend hrs in costume creater then run around in PC  listenting to the sounds and seeing the zones and have more fun  and feel at home  then any  mmo  today    and now that i have a new pc  playing would not only look great  compared to what i use to see lol  it would be home   gaming  has lost its fun and luster to me  cuz nothing will ever be or replace   coh  i would rather pay to play a game i love and has emontional attachment  and older  engine graphics ect  then to play something that  feels just like a game  or a job with all the grinding  ect in todays mmo's

This ^^I love the look and feel of CoH.I also love that it is simple control wise.Many games today are too complicated and the character models look lifeless.

[Shibboleth]

It may be a generational thing, as I appreciate good graphics but play is more important to me. There are MUDs I  would play today if they were still around. And while CoH was wonderful and the best overall package for superhero, mmo play it wasn't perfect or the be all, end all for all things. DCUO cityscape looks better and it's implementation of superspeed...I fell in love immediately. But what I would give for an hour of play on my favorite Brute.

[Arcana]

CoX was better at launch than Champions Beta, after Beta.  Or even now.  DC Universe.  Very 'arcade-y.'  Pew-pew.  Champions.  Pew-pew.  *(Let me get my 'X-Box controller...')  CoX had them licked.  Despite the apparently dated 'graphics engine' which looks just find with ultra mode on.  The zone graphics look spot on to me.

Champions had terrible design.  A massive launch day nerf.  And it's the 'walking dead' of MMOs.

CoH had... better combat.  Better powers.  Better mobs.  Better hierarchy of mobs.  Better 'tank in the middle' of tons of mobs.  Better combat feel.  Ballet kinetic.  Better animation.  Better teaming.  Better archetypes.  Better interface.  Better main character animation.  Better zones.  Better content and missions.  Better interface.  Better graphics.  (Not as cheesy. ie.  I liked the painted bitmaps vs sub-human plastic model look.)  Better mittens.  Better zone music.  Better ambience.  Better chat backspace beep.  (Love that sound...) 

My opinion on the failings of Champions Online is on record.  However, factoring out general preferences, I think CO was actually better designed at release than CoH was at release.  CO suffered three ironic problems relative to CoH.  First, CoH did not have the developer IO to do dramatic things to game balance after release.  In spite of all the CoH player complaints to the contrary, CoH's game play was very stable from release to about I4.  People can bitch about perma unstoppable and toggle IH, but those were minor changes in the overall tapestry of the game.  It wasn't until I5 that the devs made a major game-wide set of changes (and that was the melee defense rebalancing, not ED which happened afterward).  CO went through lots of radical rebalancing passes, including one ridiculously right upon launch (ridiculous because they were completely untested and dramatic changes, doubly ridiculous because that's what beta is for, and triply ridiculous because the devs were incredibly confident in them doing what they thought they would do when basic calculations could demonstrate otherwise).  CoH's stability worked for and against the game: it helped give the game an identity but it also caused some elements of that identity to later become a noose around the game's neck.  But in the short run, stability gave the game direction, and not even the devs themselves knew what that direction was going to be until it had already been set.

Second, the lack of archetypes meant CO lacked replayability options CoH had.  CoH is very different playing as a controller than as a blaster or a scrapper.  CO had no such options.  CO was basically full of ranged scrappers.  And because players were allowed to pick and choose nearly any power options they wanted, players could hyper-optimize away from problems or imbalances.  For example, the passive slot.  You could put an offensive power there or a defensive one.  But fundamentally speaking the defensive options were all far better.  That means the vast majority of players had strong defenses.  Also, there was almost no benefit to taking melee attacks relative to ranged attacks.  The net result was that most of the characters ended up being (what a CoH player might call) ranged scrappers.  And once you've played CO with one ranged scrapper, you've played it with all ranged scrappers.

Which created a third problem.  CO and CoH both launched thin, meaning they both launched with not a lot of content.  But CO actually launched with more content, and what's more most of it worked: a lot of CoH content was straight up broken at launch.  CoH was constantly making things work after launch which opened more gameplay content to the players over time.  CO had more working right from the start, and that meant players could burn through that content quicker.  Having all that content working and accessible is great if you have a lot of it.  But ironically if you don't have a lot of it, you just let the players exhaust it.

All these things sound good on paper: more developer time to tweak gameplay globally, more build options for players, and less buggy launch content.  But the devil is in the details, and these three things conspired to make CO have a more fragmented gameplay identity at launch, less gameplay options at launch, and more exhaustible content at launch.  What's even more ironic is that all three things were predictable: this wasn't surprising except in hindsight.  I predicted all three things happening basically at launch and I don't consider those predictions especially prescient. 

[pinballdave]

I want to exemp down my stormy and go to Perez Park and wax a herd of the Kraken's children. Of course I had debt to burn off, I did say I was a stormy.

[Brigadine]

personaly i dont give a crud about the age of the game  i played for 8yrs on a pos  dell  so cpu graphics were bad   it was the game play the community  the uniqueness to every toon and costume  and the powersets  no  game today has the powerset  thats one of the problems today  everyone wants super shiney and this  that and everything   since the shutdown ive tryed a few games  didnt last long  wasnt as fun  to me   i can spend hrs in costume creater then run around in PC  listenting to the sounds and seeing the zones and have more fun  and feel at home  then any  mmo  today    and now that i have a new pc  playing would not only look great  compared to what i use to see lol  it would be home   gaming  has lost its fun and luster to me  cuz nothing will ever be or replace   coh  i would rather pay to play a game i love and has emontional attachment  and older  engine graphics ect  then to play something that  feels just like a game  or a job with all the grinding  ect in todays mmo's

Age is just a number. While the Graphics may be dated it is better than anything made in the last 5+ years.. The graphics are comparable to a lot of newer games for me.

Imagine CoH on the scale of assassins creed unity.... GOOD LORD. street sweeping would never get old.