New efforts!

[LadyVamp]

Geez, people, with IO's it became pretty easy to build a survivable, solo-able blaster.  It just too careful choices and tricked-out IO's.   ;D

Prior to the nerfing of rain of arrows, used to take my archer/em blaster soloing all the time.  Used to take on 0+8 mobs with her.  move up close enough to use roa.  pop a yellow.  pop a red. kick off build up.  kick off aim.  drop roa on their heads.  minions dead. LTs almost dead.  bosses at 33% health.  finish off Lts with 1 shot each.  4 or 5 shots for the boss.  Lts were killed with that code attack archers had.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat.  yellows weren't needed as a general rule.  reds just so the boss and Lts would take more dmg.

On teams when I ran her, I'd pop that combo right after ending the door but use the cone attack instead of the roa.  half the time, the team would enter to find a boss and 2 Lts dying from arrows.  fun.  fun.  fun.

I never IO'd her.  She was on just SOs.

[MWRuger]

I loved blasters, as I have previously stated, and I could eventually play them at +4x8 but seldom while i was leveling. I needed those IO set bonuses and slots that came with levels.  Leveling I could do +1 or +2, depending on who i was facing and what powers I had. Keep in mind this is all preincarnate. Incarnates made it easier but it was pretty grindy for me and when I played there were usually not a lot of people on to do the grinding of Incarnate TF's.

I will say that my first toons were blasters but they stalled because they just died so darn much. I switched to a WP scrapper who was much easier to play. Once I hit 50 with him, I started reading the forums, guides, learned to market (amazing what a lot of funds can do for a build), learned how to use IO's properly and basically learned how the game functioned. But I loved the game and was willing to take the time to learn it.

So I agree with Arcana in that, blasters were pretty rough unless you knew a whole lot about the game. But once you learned it they were a lot of fun and I enjoyed the challenge. Also, there was nothing better than using my blaster with capped positional defense (using purples) to drop in the middle of a mob, drop build up, endurance drain and hit an AOE and decimate a mob while my tanker buddy asked how the hell I did that and how was I still alive.

[Azrael]

I don't have much to say on the incarnate stuff.  I wasn't a fan of the interface or the plus level 'shifts.'  It all felt a bit of a 'bolt on' to me.

Still on the Defender and Blaster issues.  :)

I think the clue on in how to address these issues lay in something like the Dominator.

Nobody wants to have 'soft capped' invulnerably challenge free heroes...do they?  :P  Even my 4.8 billion influence Elec/elec/elec Dominator was 'flawed'  - as in I wasn't prepared to skeleton or chainsaw the build just to hit the soft cap.  I wanted all the powers included in the sets.  And I just about achieved that.  I had defence from IO bonuses at around 36-ish %.  That made me harder to hit more often than not.  I had Brutes and Tanks that had soft capped defence for build costs of 1 billion and 1.4 billion I think.  My point?  Ironic that the archetypes that didn't need it were virtually immune from a standard challenge while my most expensive build still(!) had a vulnerable aspect to it...even though a Dominator has the hit points of a packet of crisps.  I liked it that way.  Flawed.  Still a challenge.

Where am I going with this.  Erm. 

A Dominator is very vulnerable early game.  You can blast.  Maybe can't blast as hard as a blaster?  You can blap and do melee without the 'ardness of a scrapper.  You can 'control' as well.  You generate threats far and close depending on play style.

So you're vulnerable 'most of the time.'  What I like about the Dominator? 

It makes a good many of the Defender doesn't need and Blaster doesn't need arguments mute.  Why?  The Dominator is rewarded for a risky play style.  The more you attack?  The more your Dominator bar builds.  (We saw a similar 'attack' reward bar on the Brute's 'rage' builder...)  And when you hit the top of the Domination bar?  My all time favourite CoH 'it's going down' effect.  Domination!  Ok.  Now it's my turn to Mez...with a mental base ball bat patting in your mental hand...

Reward.

Linked to play style.

Could you imagine an 'Adrenalin' bar that fills up for a Blaster?  You can have instant healing!  (If a Scrapper can have it on 'more' hit points?  Why not a Blaster with less?)  And as the bar builds up you heal proportionate percentage to where the bar is...and then 'BOOM' activate instant healing when the 'attack' bar fills up.  During this state you cannot be mezzed but you're all out 'wired' for battle.  And just like on the Domination bar?  You're end refills up!!!  And not only that?!!  Hasten auto activates!!!  KILLING FRENZY!!!!!  We're talking all out 'Scrapper Lock.' :"P

or a 'self Buff' bar called 'Equilibrium' for the Defender?  No longer the boring 'bubble bot' that has to press 'deflection' shields x8 times(!) on teams...no...you can now solo! 

The more you attack, the more you're equilibrium bar builds up.  And the more it builds up?  The more end return you have return.  So even though you're 'only AIM" and 'no build up' attacks are mediocre...the more you attack, the more you build towards Equilibrium.  When you're attack bar hits the top?  You're end bar fills up!  You, like a Dominator...cannot be mezzed because you are in tune with your mind and body.  Not only that!  You're mediocre damage has a 'BUILD UP' buff applied to all attacks!  NOT ONLY THAT!  You're 'ally only' Deflection and Insulation shields auto self buff during your state of Equilibrium!  For a window of 1 minute.  End, Mez, Damage and Self Buff are no longer the bane of your life!  Now you know what it feels like to be a scrapper!  :P  Like Icarus...you fly to the sun and feel its power...  Phew.  I was getting quite excited about that myself... :D

If only...  But it rewards 'risk' and could momentarily bring squishies into line with the 'cake and eat it' archetypes using the 'cool' bar builder mechanism that worked really well on Brutes and excellently on Dominators.

After rolling with the rope a dope punishment...your bar activates and you become a transformed enough to return the pleasure for a 'limited' time only. :P

Azrael.

PS.  I did, REALLY, enjoy the Water Blaster.  It rewarded 'play style' of the blaster.  You still had rubbish hit points.  You were still vulnerable most of the time...but the set was designed in such a way as to promote and reward risk.  Add in Issue 24s 2ndary self buffs?

Mmm...

[Ultimate15]

...Does anyone else miss COH particularly so around this time of year?

Don't get me wrong - my yearning and desire to play the game again pretty much stays with me through out all seasons *laughs*. But there's something about the holidays that makes me pine for it that much more. I miss snow ball fights and chilling in the chalet and skiing and...and...*cries*

And I know I can do all that stuff in PC. And I have been. But still. #arewethereyet

[pinballdave]

Defender cap is what, 400%? Same as controllers, tankers, dominators, khelds, and VEATs.

Assume 195% from base+enhancements, 18.75% from Assault, and oh... let's be generous and say 35% from a crapton of IO sets. Let's be extra generous and say you're running T4 Assault Core Hybrid with 3 stacks up for a total of +55%. That gets you to 303%.

I'm having a hard time imagining the +30% from Vigilance while solo would make a difference to anyone who isn't Kinetics. Certainly not while leveling, which is what the Vigilance change was targeted at improving. Yes, the cap is lower at lower levels, but so is everybody's (except Brutes, because Brutes need to be nerfed :P), and the Defender cap is within 10% of Scrappers at level 1.

<snip>

To you sir with your 400% cap, I would counter: BbbZZzzzortch!!! [fulcrum shift]

[MWRuger]

...Does anyone else miss COH particularly so around this time of year?

Don't get me wrong - my yearning and desire to play the game again pretty much stays with me through out all seasons *laughs*. But there's something about the holidays that makes me pine for it that much more. I miss snow ball fights and chilling in the chalet and skiing and...and...*cries*

And I know I can do all that stuff in PC. And I have been. But still. #arewethereyet

Oh yes. So very yes!

[pinballdave]

First off, I think a better Defender inherent could have been on a team of 6-8 with only one Defender, if all of the team was mezzed, the solo Defender dug deep and broke out of the mez effect, allowing them to help save the team. Ok, I just wrote that and already don't like it.

Secondly, I always felt the VEATs (and HEATs to a lesser extent) were the end-all-be-all ATs with only one minor exception. Think about what each of the EATs could do.
-Bane Spider and Night Widow- Great as Stalker/Scrappers.
-Crab Spider and Fortunata- Great defense/resistances for a Blaster-esque type of toon.
-Peace Bringer and Warshade- With the ability to "load" more than one build, you could be a Tank or Blaster or Scrapper pretty easily.
-All VEATs had great team buffs and several had decent debuffs (Venom Grenade/Poisonous Ray/Shatter Armor/Darkest Night/etc).
-Missing your Controllers? Many of the EATs had various control powers in them (Wide Area Web Grenade was a fine example of awesome sauce).
-Crab Spider (and Bane Spider to a lesser extent)- Like pets? Here ya go.

This last point was really the only reason I didn't like the VEAT set up; MMs were, as far as I can tell, the only AT that wasn't completely represented by the EATs. MMs were the only class (until Lore Pets came out) that could actually CONTROL what their pets did! If Crab or Crab and Bane Spiders had that ability, they would have been by far the best class IMHO.

While I am sure many can argue (and successfully I am sure) that the debuffs/buffs/heals were way better on other classes (yes, PBs at least got the teammate and self heals), you had to agree that a team of 4-8 EATs of various ATs/playstyles could have been truly epic, assuming experienced players and not AE babies.

Our all-defender crew did make a spin-off all Veat SG and the stacking leaderships (we encouraged at least 3 character, and my widow took Veat and pool leadership defense)was amazing with the widow and fortunata defenses. We didn't follow through to the highest level, but the upper 20-30s, anything with 4 Veats was amazing.

[Azrael]

...Does anyone else miss COH particularly so around this time of year?

Don't get me wrong - my yearning and desire to play the game again pretty much stays with me through out all seasons *laughs*. But there's something about the holidays that makes me pine for it that much more. I miss snow ball fights and chilling in the chalet and skiing and...and...*cries*

And I know I can do all that stuff in PC. And I have been. But still. #arewethereyet

What he said. :/

Azrael.

[LaughingAlex]

This time of the year I'm often depressed.  And I miss CoH especially badly this time of year for that.

[Codewalker]

To you sir with your 400% cap, I would counter: BbbZZzzzortch!!! [fulcrum shift]

Heh, that's why I said anyone who isn't kinetics.

I suppose saturated soul drain could pull it off as well. It's +40% base and +10% per target on a defender, so you'd have to come close to the 10 target cap within a 15' radius to get there. If you're already fully buffed that might be survivable for a defender depending on the enemy group. It's not like we're talking about being truly evil and giving that power to a blaster in place of build up or anything... oh wait...  ;D

By contrast defender fulcrum shift gives you a whopping +75% per target if you're in melee range so... that's going to cap just about anything. FS is also much easier to perma than soul drain.

[LaughingAlex]

Heh, that's why I said anyone who isn't kinetics.

I suppose saturated soul drain could pull it off as well. It's +40% base and +10% per target on a defender, so you'd have to come close to the 10 target cap within a 15' radius to get there. If you're already fully buffed that might be survivable for a defender depending on the enemy group. It's not like we're talking about being truly evil and giving that power to a blaster in place of build up or anything... oh wait...  ;D

By contrast defender fulcrum shift gives you a whopping +75% per target if you're in melee range so... that's going to cap just about anything. FS is also much easier to perma than soul drain.

It wasn't 75% per target so much as 50% around you and +25% per target in melee range.  So to cap out on a defender in solo play assuming we have enhancements at say...80%...

100%(base damage)
30%(Vigilance)
85%(enhancements, about what I'd usually have, I know, 10% short of 95% but bear with me here).

Total effective damage 215%.  185% to go.

FS shoots you up 50% regardless of how close you are, so we have 135% left to cap.  So...six guys to cap out on damage with a defender in solo play.  8 in teamplay.  Even without vigilance, 8 will cap a defender and ten will excessively exceed the cap.  Even with NO ENHANCEMENTS a kinetics defender can hit a staggering 350%.

Now corruptors only got 40% damage from the FS radial buff, and 20% per badguy within melee range.

185% out of 500% total for starts.  Fulcrum shift needs to cover 315%.  So we need to double cast it.

at ten targets, FS boosts the damage by 240% with ten targets.  This is more than what a defender can do, but less per target.  It exceeds defender efficiency only because the corruptor
has a higher damage cap.  A second casting though WILL cap that corruptor damage.

So, for an earlier question for anyone who isn't kinetics seeing a difference from the vigilance buff, in reality, the kinetics have no benefit at all from the vigilance buff.  It far, far exceeds the defenders cap assuming the defender has effective damage enhancements in any situation except when there are only 2-3 targets.  So that 30% is only going to help when the kin has to few targets to fight in solo play, which may be useful for a kin keeping the difficulty lower.

[Codewalker]

Ah, that's right, I forgot that the top-level FS power is autohit single target, so it summons only one of each type of pet, then the debuff pet summons more pets on a per-target basis. Helps to actually look at the power data. No wonder that seemed higher than I remembered.

Either way, at 50%, +25% per target, it's still quite easy to hit just about any cap with only a handful of enemies.

So, for an earlier question for anyone who isn't kinetics seeing a difference from the vigilance buff, in reality, the kinetics have no benefit at all from the vigilance buff.  It far, far exceeds the defenders cap assuming the defender has effective damage enhancements in any situation except when there are only 2-3 targets.  So that 30% is only going to help when the kin has to few targets to fight in solo play, which may be useful for a kin keeping the difficulty lower.

That's what I was getting at, Kinetics invalidates so many different types of damage buffs due to exceeding the cap regularly (even enhancements at its extremes), that it's an outlier that shouldn't be considered.

It only can do that after level 32 (or 38), of course, though.

[worldweary]

or a 'self Buff' bar called 'Equilibrium' for the Defender?  No longer the boring 'bubble bot' that has to press 'deflection' shields x8 times(!) on teams...no...you can now solo! 

You did not have to buff every teammate anymore.I was glad when they fixed that.Defenders having less damage made them more fun for me.Defenders and Controllers could defeat mobs several different ways.
My Scrapper only needed Build up + Shield Charge + Fire Sword Circle + Fire Ball.Scrappers and Controllers
were probably the most played AT's.Scrappers because they were easy and had lots of damage and Trollers  because there were so many different ways to use them.

[Codewalker]

I can see why level 38 is the turning point in controllers vs. defenders. I also believe that mixture of controllers and defenders needs to be considered as well.

Once you start mixing ATs, of course other combinations become just as effective or even more so.

My ideal steamroller team would probably be something along the lines of 2 controllers, 2 defenders, 4 blasters. Or controller, defender, 2 corruptors, 2 dominators, 2 blasters. Masterminds could fill in for either corruptors or blasters. A VEAT running double leadership could take the place of a corruptor. A new-style stalker could also stand in for a blaster. Maybe allow 1 melee type damage dealer if I'm feeling generous. :P

In practice very little in the game needed a special setup, so except for a couple of static teams designed for a purpose I was completely happy to roll with whoever showed up.

Illusion has a lot more offense than Earth or Ice in my opinion. Whichever AT certain combos like bubbles+kinetics+dark excel over FF sonic or trap overkill on defense and resistance.

Illusion control had good single-target offense, but not so great at AoE. Fire is good AoE, and Plant reigns supreme at controller AoE damage, especially when dealing with large crowds beyond the target cap. Not as good as a blaster, but infinitely more survivable. Controllers mostly rely on pets and epics for single-target damage in any case.

The biggest advantage of Illusion is not the offense, but that with either a high-recharge build or a kineticist on the team, they became a completely invulnerable tank.

[pinballdave]

First they let the masterminds equip and upgrade in a single shot, then, when the incarnate trials started is when they gave the defender primaries (corr seconds, controller seconds) and aoe league buff. THAT, is when the Forcefielder really could party with the other defenders. Oh, and all the mini-ice tanks that the cold manipulators could chug out, what a glorious day.

[worldweary]

Once you start mixing ATs, of course other combinations become just as effective or even more so.

My ideal steamroller team would probably be something along the lines of 2 controllers, 2 defenders, 4 blasters. Or controller, defender, 2 corruptors, 2 dominators, 2 blasters. Masterminds could fill in for either corruptors or blasters. A VEAT running double leadership could take the place of a corruptor. A new-style stalker could also stand in for a blaster. Maybe allow 1 melee type damage dealer if I'm feeling generous. :P

4 Blasters?It always seemed like people were asking for Scrappers not Blasters.They could do as much damage without having to be saved from being mezzed,sleeps or soaking up the heals. :P

[pinballdave]

Once you start mixing ATs, of course other combinations become just as effective or even more so.

My ideal steamroller team would probably be something along the lines of 2 controllers, 2 defenders, 4 blasters. Or controller, defender, 2 corruptors, 2 dominators, 2 blasters. Masterminds could fill in for either corruptors or blasters. A VEAT running double leadership could take the place of a corruptor. A new-style stalker could also stand in for a blaster. Maybe allow 1 melee type damage dealer if I'm feeling generous. :P

In practice very little in the game needed a special setup, so except for a couple of static teams designed for a purpose I was completely happy to roll with whoever showed up.

Illusion control had good single-target offense, but not so great at AoE. Fire is good AoE, and Plant reigns supreme at controller AoE damage, especially when dealing with large crowds beyond the target cap. Not as good as a blaster, but infinitely more survivable. Controllers mostly rely on pets and epics for single-target damage in any case.

The biggest advantage of Illusion is not the offense, but that with either a high-recharge build or a kineticist on the team, they became a completely invulnerable tank.

I iiked pug groups, too, because some interesting synergies would play out, like my sonic, FF, storm Reichsman - that much mitigation a storm COULD use O2 to keep the squishies upright.

My all steamroller team, I usually would go heavy on defenders, since a flashlight would be as powerful as a fire blaster snipe. For max -regen, I have to have a dark miasma: TG + fluggy TG + Howling twilight mmmm, on a tar patch for kicks. I have to have damage cap, so one kineticist if not two :p I love me some -resist and -defense so freezing rain or sleet from a stormy or a cold. If you toss in a sonic and a forcefielder, you may never see your health drop. I could never turn away radiation emission, so that's six - EM Pulse anyone? The last two teammates would be AoE damage specialists, and with confuse, it would be really unstoppable so plant control, and last I have a soft spot in my head for wormhole.

[Azrael]

My ideal steamroller team would probably be something along the lines of 2 controllers, 2 defenders, 4 blasters. Or controller, defender, 2 corruptors, 2 dominators, 2 blasters. Masterminds could fill in for either corruptors or blasters. A VEAT running double leadership could take the place of a corruptor. A new-style stalker could also stand in for a blaster. Maybe allow 1 melee type damage dealer if I'm feeling generous. :P

In practice very little in the game needed a special setup, so except for a couple of static teams designed for a purpose I was completely happy to roll with whoever showed up.

Oh yes.

Azrael.

[Codewalker]

4 Blasters?It always seemed like people were asking for Scrappers not Blasters.They could do as much damage without having to be saved from being mezzed,sleeps or soaking up the heals. :P

I'm not people. :P

Scrappers could do as much or more single-target damage as blasters. Blasters far outclassed them in AoE, though, and I did specify steamroller team. Not your ordinary pug, but one built for running non-farm content as quickly and effortlessly as possible.

With 2 defenders and 2 controllers on the team, the blasters are likely softcapped, and have either a decent chunk of resistance, regen or ticking HoTs at all times. They almost certainly have some sort of mez protection as well. And with 2 controllers most enemies are going to just be standing around not fighting back anyway. The blasters aren't going to be soaking up heals or otherwise diverting the attention of the defenders (who should be playing more like offenders in this setup) away from doing damage.

The key to a team like that is to stick together, move as a unit, and don't stop moving. All of the area buffs turn everyone into a tankmage. If a blaster strays too far away and gets flattened by a purple boss before the rest of the team gets there, no biggie. Fire off vengeance, have a good laugh, and maybe toss them a rez or a wakie while everyone else is mopping up.

A scrapper could certainly contribute to a team like that, but their waste of an entire powerset on personal defenses that are irrelevant due to already being capped, their lack of AoE with a decent radius, and their limited mobility makes them less than optimal.

Over the years I've run or participated in 27 static teams that leveled from 1-50 together, and at least that many that made it into the 30s or 40s before being shelved due to members being unavailable for RL reasons. That includes everything from all-AT teams to all-ranged, all-melee, various mixes, etc. I can say without hesitation that the ones in makeup similar to the above are the ones I had the most fun on, and felt the most powerful. It's the buff/debuff sets that make all the difference in the world.

[Ankhammon]

I iiked pug groups, too, because some interesting synergies would play out, like my sonic, FF, storm Reichsman - that much mitigation a storm COULD use O2 to keep the squishies upright.

My all steamroller team, I usually would go heavy on defenders, since a flashlight would be as powerful as a fire blaster snipe. For max -regen, I have to have a dark miasma: TG + fluggy TG + Howling twilight mmmm, on a tar patch for kicks. I have to have damage cap, so one kineticist if not two :p I love me some -resist and -defense so freezing rain or sleet from a stormy or a cold. If you toss in a sonic and a forcefielder, you may never see your health drop. I could never turn away radiation emission, so that's six - EM Pulse anyone? The last two teammates would be AoE damage specialists, and with confuse, it would be really unstoppable so plant control, and last I have a soft spot in my head for wormhole.

A good NAff/DP fender can keep a lot of damage from happening and then heal what's left all while propping up the team offense with ~100% +Dam... just saying.