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Started by Ironwolf, March 06, 2014, 03:01:32 PM

Kaos Arcanna

Superman habitually moved things that would be physically impossible to move. John Byrne came up with his handwaving aura and suggested Superman was also a telekinetic. Maybe he just telekinetically supports the weight he's moving. :D

Vee

I remember the pre-crisis Spectre becoming giant sized to keep Earths 1 & 2 from colliding. He managed to do this without causing any damage with his giant hands because Magic!

But if the Legion of Doom season of Superfriends where GL moved Earth with a forcefield doesn't count as canon I don't want any part of canon. Next you'll be telling me that an otherwise powerless Toyman can't beat all of the Superfriends simply by virtue of becoming a giant.

darkgob

Quote from: pinballdave on July 02, 2015, 01:41:26 AM
The thing about Flash on the cosmic treadmill -- what kind of lubrication did those rollers use? Was it made of adamantium (oops not a Marvel universe). Barry Allen's costume wasn't so much to hide his identity as it was to protection him from heat caused by friction running through the air at superspeed. It should have been a one use machine and destroyed during a single use.

If that's the case then shouldn't the entire lower half of his face have melted off ages ago?

Kaos Arcanna

Before the speed force he had an aura that protected him from friction. A bad guy stole it once. :D

Ohioknight

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 01:48:15 AM
Presuming a green lantern ring is powerful enough (and they are supposedly almost limitless in their power, at least for limited times), green lantern rings operated on strength of will, and could create anything their wielders could imagine.

At least in the 1960's, that "create anything their wielders could imagine" was not the sum of a GL ring's capabilities.  The ring routinely gave information like an intelligent encyclopedia, would "preserve the wearer from harm" even after the power ran out with a "reserve" and could pretty much magical genie anything convenient to the writer. 

Earth-2 GL, in those days had a ring that worked identically to Hal's (except wood instead of Yellow) and Alan Scott commanded the ring to "eliminate all evil from Earth" which instantly teleported the entire human population to Earth-1 in suspended animation (including Alan Scott)
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"

Ohioknight

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 02:09:47 AM
If we assume Superman acts like a 100 kg mass on impact, then if he were to manage to accelerate to 99% of the speed of light and strike the Earth, the impact would have the equivalent energy of about a 13 gigaton blast.

But also remember the small cross-section and high velocity... and Superman is not going to vaporize on impact which means he's going to have a real problem transmitting that energy to the target.  After impact, Superman will still contain nearly all the kinetic energy of the impact all the way through Earth (interesting fusion effects at his leading edge, I imagine).
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"

Shibboleth

Quote from: Ohioknight on July 02, 2015, 03:08:28 AM
At least in the 1960's, that "create anything their wielders could imagine" was not the sum of a GL ring's capabilities.  The ring routinely gave information like an intelligent encyclopedia, would "preserve the wearer from harm" even after the power ran out with a "reserve" and could pretty much magical genie anything convenient to the writer. 

And there was a world inside the ring. He once even trapped a villain in it.

pinballdave

Quote from: Shibboleth on July 02, 2015, 03:14:01 AM
And there was a world inside the ring. He once even trapped a villain in it.

quite right

Sinistar

Quote from: Shibboleth on July 02, 2015, 03:14:01 AM
And there was a world inside the ring. He once even trapped a villain in it.

Yep Hal trapped an evil wizard in the ring that could fuel his magicks with the emerald power.
This was pre-Crisis of course.

Also Sinestro was "killed" and imprisoned into the Central Battery on OA which nearly overloaded until Hal enters it to stop him.   Hal would later enter the CPB to use it to summon the Guardians to deal with a renegade Guardian, then of course enter it after Parallax corrupted him and he stole all the power and set Parallax free.

The rings do still provide information to the GL's.   

Inner worlds within the rings I don't think are continuity at this time but with all the stupid reboots, who knows?
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Arcana

Quote from: Ohioknight on July 02, 2015, 03:12:18 AM
But also remember the small cross-section and high velocity... and Superman is not going to vaporize on impact which means he's going to have a real problem transmitting that energy to the target.  After impact, Superman will still contain nearly all the kinetic energy of the impact all the way through Earth (interesting fusion effects at his leading edge, I imagine).

Its not about energy, its about momentum.  Conservation of momentum says that as Superman hits the ground, he will start transmitting his momentum to the matter of the Earth.  That will happen very quickly because as long as we're assuming Superman isn't somehow super-pushing forward, like a rocket with its engines still on, and that velocity is mostly built up from his run-up to the Earth, his momentum is finite, his mass is finite and relatively small, and within just a few meters all of his momentum will be transferred to the mass of the Earth.

Of course, all that momentum will come with an enormous amount of kinetic energy.  So much so that while his mass alone would only penetrate a short distance into the ground, the blast effect will create a crater that all but makes his actual penetration of the ground irrelevant.

Randall Munroe (of xkcd) addressed a similar question in his what if column: https://what-if.xkcd.com/20/.  I'm assuming that no matter how fast Superman flies atoms cannot pass right through his atomic structure, so he has to transfer that momentum to any atom he encounters.  If a 100 foot diameter sphere of carbon can't blast through the Earth completely at 0.99c, Superman wouldn't be able to either because although you might think he would be a better penetrator because he's stronger, he resists that motion even more than the mega-diamond would which actually acts to counter his maximum penetration depth.  Real normal matter would be moving so fast it would actually pass right through a lot of the Earth before detonating underground.  Superman will actually *strike* the Earth the moment his body touches the atmosphere, right up to the moment his face hits the ground.

Arcana

Quote from: Ohioknight on July 02, 2015, 03:08:28 AM
At least in the 1960's, that "create anything their wielders could imagine" was not the sum of a GL ring's capabilities.  The ring routinely gave information like an intelligent encyclopedia, would "preserve the wearer from harm" even after the power ran out with a "reserve" and could pretty much magical genie anything convenient to the writer.

At one point the rings were pseudo-sentient and could do things on their own, but in terms of what they physically enabled the wearer to do, it was mostly "create stuff from will."  They certainly had other abilities not relevant to planet-moving.

QuoteEarth-2 GL, in those days had a ring that worked identically to Hal's (except wood instead of Yellow) and Alan Scott commanded the ring to "eliminate all evil from Earth" which instantly teleported the entire human population to Earth-1 in suspended animation (including Alan Scott)

Alan Scott's ring was more of a magical ring than a technological super-weapon (in fact I think it might have explicitly been referred to as a "magic" ring).  Although there was a lot of hand waving pre and post-Crisis about what Alan Scott's relationship to Hal Jordan was, fundamentally speaking Alan Scott had a magic ring and Hal Jordan had a technological ring (albeit a ludicrously powerful one).  The rules were not just different, but fundamentally disparate.

Felderburg

Quote from: darkgob on July 02, 2015, 02:37:11 AM
If that's the case then shouldn't the entire lower half of his face have melted off ages ago?

He grows a beard at super speed, and it protects his face as it gets constantly sheared off by his running.
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Azrael

#18432
Quote from: Arcana on June 29, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Almost?  Well, technically yes.

Toggles: 18.5%
Passives: 7.5%

Both 3-slotted with just even SOs, applying ED: 26% * 1.56 = 40.56.

Are you willing to take combat jump?

28.5% * 1.56 = 44.46%.

Willing to four-slot toggles?

18.5 * 1.59 + 7.5 * 1.56 + 2.5 * 1.56 = 45.015%.

Willing to use a combination of SOs and cheap sets?  This will get you to 45% melee, 44.8% ranged, 44.4% AoE, and capped defense debuff resistance, with reasonable offense.  At level 27.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(3), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(3), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'dpty-EndRdx(27)
Level 1: Beheader -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Chop -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11), GftotA-Def(13), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 6: Gash -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(17), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Acc(A)
Level 12: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(17), DefBuff(21)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx(A)
Level 18: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(19), DefBuff(19)
Level 20: Swoop -- Acc(A)
Level 22: Evasion -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(23), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(23), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), S'dpty-EndRdx(27)
Level 24: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
------------

That would be worth trying.  With Combat Jumping alone, near as dammit.  A fourth slot on each toggle to break the cap would be worth it.  The difference between not quite reaching the cap and breaching the cap was significant.  My Shield/SS Brute was a revelation for me in that regard.  I had a DM/Energy Brute.  It was pretty good.  But I wasn't quite high enough for def' capped on it...so I'd get hit by the 'boss' mob when I had a swarm of mob around me.  (But such a build always agitates more ambitious mob pulling...) 

A defence capped tank, on the other hand, would be spot on for crazy mob pulling as I guess you'd have the res' performance of a tank also?  (Though no heal in the 'defence' set?)

My EM/Invul tank had great res' and had scaleable defence numbers (Invincibility...) that would swell with the mob count.  I had defence in the mid forties just shy of the cap and it only took one mob to break the cap and I wouldn't get hit.  It did have Dull Pain which 'came around' by the time my health bar had been worn down a bit. 

Azrael.

PS. 
QuoteSometimes, asking how things could possibly be the way they are yields valuable fruit.  Nitpicking the question "how is it that whenever someone gets hit by lightning, irradiated, exposed to hazardous chemicals, or just falls in the shower in the Marvel Universe they often spontaneously sprout superpowers instead of just die" led to the story Earth-X, where the premise is that what we know as humanity isn't really the original humanity, but rather all "normal" humans are descendants of beings manipulated by the Celestials to act as a future defense of the planet which is harboring a Celestial embryo.  Why are humans so susceptible to becoming superpowered?  Because the blueprint for powers is in our DNA.  Why Earth?  Because the Celestials planted an egg in the planet eons ago when they first visited.

Comic books, like all speculative fiction, asks the question "what if?"  You can't ask what if, and not expect your readers to ask the follow up question: "how come?"

'Valuable fruit' or sour, fungus ridden IP passed it 'sell by' date...with properties that should either be passed onto 'heirs' of their original creators or passed on to the public domain.

Nitpicking?  Yes.  Take a pinch of science with a pinch of salt and write a 'fun' story.  Even when I was young I realised that a gamma blast wouldn't turn me or anyone else into the Hulk.  But it's what I chose to believe because it was another universe with its 'own rules.'  (Rules I didn't have a sleepless night over or while away winter nights over.

Cap's shield ping ponging was a 'bit crazy' but I could accept it because 'He's Cap.'  I was too busy enjoying Kirby's Stories with a pinch of pseudo science and jaw breaking action to notice.  (Yes, Kirby was apparently very well read in science and history and other things...  That much came across in his stories.  But not in a soul sucking way.

I preferred not to 'go there' on the Thing's daily routines.  Or why the She-Hulk was so enraged.  Or why no one every gave Spidey a 'fat lip' for all his wise cracking.  Or why Kirby's Thor never grew a beard.  Or all the 'er...things' that Mr. Fantastic could do.  I guess Sue just liked the fact he was brainy.  Or if the Vision had a...

Earth X..?   ...and Celestials 'laying an egg' just about sums the debauched and flacid Marvel Corporate Entity up.  Retro-conned junk. 

As for the Disney Universe Movies?  'Meh.'  Iron Man 4, *cough, 'Age of Ultron.'  Lame Thor.  Gimp Hulk.  Black Ops 'Hawk Eye' (or 'Generic Man' to his friends...)  Cringe Romance: Banner vs Widdow.  (Oh, just get on with it.  Put us out of our misery and deliver some real sheet tangling Mills & Boons but slap an 18 on it for the 'easily offended.')  But at least Cap threw a bike...    More 'good grief...'  Where's Charlie Brown when you need him...

PPS. 
QuoteYep Hal trapped an evil wizard in the ring that could fuel his magicks with the emerald power.
This was pre-Crisis of course.

Also Sinestro was "killed" and imprisoned into the Central Battery on OA which nearly overloaded until Hal enters it to stop him.   Hal would later enter the CPB to use it to summon the Guardians to deal with a renegade Guardian, then of course enter it after Parallax corrupted him and he stole all the power and set Parallax free.

The rings do still provide information to the GL's.   

Inner worlds within the rings I don't think are continuity at this time but with all the stupid reboots, who knows?

Pre-Crisis, DC still had me as a reader.  But post Crisis.  It was the end.  Dallas.  Bobby in the Shower.  It was 'all a dream.'  Game over.

Inner worlds within the rings.  Sure.  Why not.  I can cope with that.

...but the chainsawing of both the Kirby Universe and DC's 1, 2 pre-crisis stuff?  Finished me as a comics reader 'as such.'   'Stupid reboots.'  Agreed.  I'm surprised anyone still cares.  But given the amount of money the 'Iron Man 4' movie took at the box office as clearly, 'creation by committee' has plenty of people willing to part with their money.  Why don't they just have each issue of any given comic as 'No.1' but just change the Volume no? :P  That way, fickle readers with short attention spans or collectors who like having a 'No.1' issue can have all the 'fun' they like?  MoAHR reBoOts!!@

FloatingFatMan

^ Well... As long as you're not bitter... :P

Arcana

Quote from: FloatingFatMan on July 02, 2015, 09:01:04 AM
^ Well... As long as you're not bitter... :P

Bitter is not the word I would use, but that would be nitpicking.

Azrael

Quote from: FloatingFatMan on July 02, 2015, 09:01:04 AM
^ Well... As long as you're not bitter... :P

Heh.

QuoteBitter is not the word I would use, but that would be nitpicking.

No.  But it's not 'bitter' it's 'corporate.'   :P   'Memories, from the corner of my mind...'  Cue for a Barbara Streisand song...

Azrael.


Vee

Quote from: Azrael on July 02, 2015, 07:53:25 AM
Or why Kirby's Thor never grew a beard. 

Obviously because Hela hadn't trashed his face yet.

FloatingFatMan

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 09:15:21 AM
Bitter is not the word I would use, but that would be nitpicking.

We Brits like to understate things deliberately.  It's our way of overstating them. ;)

Blackgrue

Quote from: Ohioknight on July 02, 2015, 03:08:28 AM
At least in the 1960's, that "create anything their wielders could imagine" was not the sum of a GL ring's capabilities.  The ring routinely gave information like an intelligent encyclopedia, would "preserve the wearer from harm" even after the power ran out with a "reserve" and could pretty much magical genie anything convenient to the writer. 

Earth-2 GL, in those days had a ring that worked identically to Hal's (except wood instead of Yellow) and Alan Scott commanded the ring to "eliminate all evil from Earth" which instantly teleported the entire human population to Earth-1 in suspended animation (including Alan Scott)

Remember, Alan Scott's green lantern power doesn't come from the same source, it comes from the Starheart/Green Flame of Life... Yes this technically means the original Green Lantern is not a member of the Green Lantern Corps. In fact, the Starheart's powers are... pretty heavily NOT the same as later Green Lantern's stuff.

Long rambling backstory short: Alan Scott's green lantern powers come from the Starheart which is outright magic, and is the remnants of most of the magic from the early galaxy. Later Green Lanterns/The Green Lantern Corps get their power from the Emotional Spectrum, an energy field created by all sentient beings in the universe... particularly the Green bandwidth that happens to represent Willpower/willfulness/restraint etc.
Virtue native

Main characters:
Diz the Goblin
Projekt Redstorm

Victoria Victrix

Highly recommended. 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Physics-Superheroes-Spectacular-Edition/dp/1592405088

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61uU2GVaAJL._SX331_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg

By a real physicist and a helluva nice guy.
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