New efforts!

[pinballdave]

I never really cared about being super-mega-OP, I was much more about the RP... Then again if i can get my Elec/Elec dominator to be a permadom that'd be awesome.

Permadom Elec/elec and it is quite fun. Different dominators were almost as varied as different defender combos. Then, throw in player preference -- man, I miss this game.

[Thunder Glove]

Weak.
I want every bad guy who LOOKS at me to explode. After being forced to drop to their knees and worship me for 3 seconds.

I think that was an actual power planned for Omega.  (Well, almost - it would confuse them to fight for you, and then explode)

[P51mus]

When a power had multiple damage types EX: (Smashing/Lethal) or (Smashing/Fire) ETC., During battle did each damage type calculate hit% separately?

For powers with multiple attack types the highest applicable defense value was used.  So, if a target had say 15% fire defense and 30% smashing defense, the 30% smashing defense was used.

There was a point where all applicable defenses added together, so in the above example of 15% fire and 30% smashing defense the target would have 45% defense vs fireball, but that got changed early on.  For obvious reasons.

[pinballdave]

Unless they had legal cover from the licensing agreement, and that's not likely, its more likely a copy of I24 might suddenly appear on someone's doorstep.  License or not, any dev that took property from NCSoft prior to the shutdown would still be in violation of several employment agreements, and contrary to what some have said on these forums those contracts have legal force indefinitely unless stated otherwise.  There's also no statute of limitation limit here, because the clock starts when the theft has been or should have been reasonably discovered.  So that's not the day of the shutdown, but rather the day someone releases it to the public.

In fact, its even more likely that rather than a copy of I24 showing up one day, a magical patch to I23 that happens to contain all of the I24 content might appear one day.  That would be far more untraceable, and would therefore protect whoever happened to have that content.

methinks you know too much

[Arcana]

Arcana, Codewalker or someone in-the-know please tell me:

When a power had multiple damage types EX: (Smashing/Lethal) or (Smashing/Fire) ETC., During battle did each damage type calculate hit% separately?

for example could someone with Smashing/Fire hit only with the fire part of the attack if the target had high Smashing def?

No.  Powers either hit or miss.  When they hit, their Attribmods take effect, each of which might have a different damage type.  Individual attribmods didn't roll a tohit roll, although in very special cases they could individually roll a special chance to take effect separate from the normal tohit roll.  For example, a Scrapper attack that hits dealt a specific amount of damage, and then rolled a special chance roll for whether the critical hit part also dealt damage.

There were certain powers that had effects that simulated a second tohit roll, but that was non-standard.  For example, the taunt effect in tanker attacks was intended to have a penalty tohit against some targets.  See: City of Data for examples of how this was basically done.

or is it calculated based on the primary damage type? EX: either all hits or none hits

Damage type had nothing to do with tohit rolls.  Each power (attack) was typed.  This typing was independent of the attribmods (effects) in the power.  Which means whether a power did smashing damage or not had nothing to do with whether or not the attack checked against smashing defense.  What mattered was whether the power was typed "Smashing_Attack" or not.  Powers (attacks) could have multiple types: Power Bolt was typed Energy_attack, Smashing_Attack, Ranged_Attack.  It therefore checked against energy defense, smashing defense, and ranged defense (and the attack had to penetrate the highest of the possible defense types).

Also: same question with DoT, same question AoE, Same question with holds/effects.

Same, same, same.

and for chain; was hit recalculated on each successive target? was it based off the original attack stats or adjusted attack stats? (Adjusted means overflow like: attack has 300% accuracy and tohit from player, it hits with 200% accuracy on first target (-100% def) then subtract the next target's defense and recalculate hit chance, then again, then again, then 0% or -#% = End Chain.)

There was no real "chain" effect primitive in the game engine per se, so chaining attacks were cobbled together with other effects.  How the chain was created would determine this, but as a rule chains typically had to roll a tohit roll against the targets they jumped to.  There were at least two ways chaining effects were accomplished, but I don't remember which ones were used for which powers or which ones might have superceded others (or if they were superceded by a third method: Codewalker would probably know, or else I would have to look it up).  At one point chains were accomplished by granting a chaining power to the target, which then was used to jump the chain to the next target.  The problem with that was that it was essentially the target that became the attacker for the next target which had issues.  I think the better method used pseudopets: when you hit the target you spawned a pseudopet at that location, and that pet did the jump for you.  The advantage of that was that the pet could inherit your buffs, and wouldn't be limited to what the target itself could do.

[Arcana]

There was a point where all applicable defenses added together, so in the above example of 15% fire and 30% smashing defense the target would have 45% defense vs fireball, but that got changed early on.  For obvious reasons.

It was never supposed to do that, but the bug took a while to be noticed and fixed.  If I recall correctly, it was first noticed within the context of Dark Melee attacks.

[Arcana]

methinks you know too much

I generally know more than people think, and less than they imagine.

[pinballdave]

I accuse! Arcana in the Hallway with the Lead Pipe

[Felderburg]

Agreed. Hey is anyone but me working on a UBER build for each character class? I want a monster soloing toon for each (or as least as close to soloing as I can get). Been working that MIDS overtime.

You'll want to visit the "Build Discussions" forum: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/board,12.0.html

[Eskreema]

I think she did it in the study with a candlestick then took the secret passage to the kitchen for some waffles!! That's more her style  8) I think. Well, I dunno about the waffles.

[srmalloy]

3. Current deal they are Tapping the Deal now. They are just stringing it along not to waste time but because the guy selling it is afraid Nexon will fire him if they win the struggle for the company control. If you do even a little research the reason Nexon gives for trying to takeover NCSoft is some of the older software. What I see while not on the inside is the tapping to keep a little life in the deal and the possibility still in place but no intent to close and finish the deal at this time, due mainly to Nexon and its efforts.

That Nexon is interested in NCsoft's 'older software' makes me wonder whether they might have looked at the numbers behind NCsoft's products and seen the mistake NCsoft made in shutting down CoH and Paragon Studios rather than just trimming the wasted efforts that were burning revenues (i.e., the second project), and be interested in re-opening it. That said, I wonder how much success they would have doing it if they couldn't get enough of the original PS staff back to have at least some continuity of development. I remember Positron's comments about how spaghettified the code had gotten over the years; a new development team coming in would be facing a serious uphill climb trying to figure out the code in order to move forward on development. And they probably wouldn't be getting people as dedicated to the game as we had.

[Twisted Toon]

I accuse! Arcana in the Hallway with the Lead Pipe

I think it was Arcana in the computer lab with a database...

[The Fifth Horseman]

I think it was Arcana in the computer lab with a database...

In the internet cafe, with a flash drive.  ;)

[Joshex]

No.  Powers either hit or miss.  When they hit, their Attribmods take effect, each of which might have a different damage type.  Individual attribmods didn't roll a tohit roll, although in very special cases they could individually roll a special chance to take effect separate from the normal tohit roll.  For example, a Scrapper attack that hits dealt a specific amount of damage, and then rolled a special chance roll for whether the critical hit part also dealt damage.

There were certain powers that had effects that simulated a second tohit roll, but that was non-standard.  For example, the taunt effect in tanker attacks was intended to have a penalty tohit against some targets.  See: City of Data for examples of how this was basically done.

Damage type had nothing to do with tohit rolls.  Each power (attack) was typed.  This typing was independent of the attribmods (effects) in the power.  Which means whether a power did smashing damage or not had nothing to do with whether or not the attack checked against smashing defense.  What mattered was whether the power was typed "Smashing_Attack" or not.  Powers (attacks) could have multiple types: Power Bolt was typed Energy_attack, Smashing_Attack, Ranged_Attack.  It therefore checked against energy defense, smashing defense, and ranged defense (and the attack had to penetrate the highest of the possible defense types).

Same, same, same.

There was no real "chain" effect primitive in the game engine per se, so chaining attacks were cobbled together with other effects.  How the chain was created would determine this, but as a rule chains typically had to roll a tohit roll against the targets they jumped to.  There were at least two ways chaining effects were accomplished, but I don't remember which ones were used for which powers or which ones might have superceded others (or if they were superceded by a third method: Codewalker would probably know, or else I would have to look it up).  At one point chains were accomplished by granting a chaining power to the target, which then was used to jump the chain to the next target.  The problem with that was that it was essentially the target that became the attacker for the next target which had issues.  I think the better method used pseudopets: when you hit the target you spawned a pseudopet at that location, and that pet did the jump for you.  The advantage of that was that the pet could inherit your buffs, and wouldn't be limited to what the target itself could do.

Very nice, thankyou for that info.

as for chain damage; so when it rerolled against the new target did it roll against the player at full power the same as the first target? or did it weaken in all stats as it passed to the next target?

for example:
Player has: 100% ToHit
Attack has: 100% accuracy

enemy1 has: 50% def to the damage type the attack is coded as., attack hits (150% accuracy left over)
chain
enemy 2 has: 50% def, attack hits (100% accuracy left over)
chain
enemy 3 has: 50% def, (50% chance to hit target) roll 1 to 100, number is 52, attack does not hit target end chain.

I really want to make a system as close to CoX as possible without offending it's IP rights. so figuring out little things like this is key.

I accuse! Arcana in the Hallway with the Lead Pipe

I think it was Arcana in the computer lab with a database...

In the internet cafe, with a flash drive.  ;)

hmm, best guess?

Lord Nemesis, in the pit, with the trolls.

[Surelle]

That Nexon is interested in NCsoft's 'older software' makes me wonder whether they might have looked at the numbers behind NCsoft's products and seen the mistake NCsoft made in shutting down CoH and Paragon Studios rather than just trimming the wasted efforts that were burning revenues (i.e., the second project), and be interested in re-opening it. That said, I wonder how much success they would have doing it if they couldn't get enough of the original PS staff back to have at least some continuity of development. I remember Positron's comments about how spaghettified the code had gotten over the years; a new development team coming in would be facing a serious uphill climb trying to figure out the code in order to move forward on development. And they probably wouldn't be getting people as dedicated to the game as we had.

I haven't seen anything at all about Nexon being interested in NCSoft's "older software," or even being interested in any of it to be honest.  They bought controlling shares of NCSoft as an investment purchase (beginning in June 2012, yes, just a couple months before the CoH shutdown announcement), but over the last few years they have been unimpressed with NC's profits and its handling of its games to the point where they bought more stock about six months ago and changed their intent to "management takeover." 

The CEOs of both Nexon and NCSoft were childhood friends who both went into the gaming industry out of college at the same time, and this whole thing has really put a strain on their friendship.  In retaliation, NCSoft has promoted friends/family to upper management positions within NC, and they've made a multi-million-dollar stock deal with Netmarble, effectively staving off a Nexon takeover.

But interest in NC's old software?  No, nothing has ever been mentioned even in passing about it that I've seen.  If anything, I've always felt that Nexon's initial stock buy into NCSoft in June 2012 was a major factor in CoX's shutdown announcement only two months later.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

It was never supposed to do that, but the bug took a while to be noticed and fixed.  If I recall correctly, it was first noticed within the context of Dark Melee attacks.

Amusingly the story i heard about it being noticed was in the context of Energy Blasters going against Sky Raider Force Field Generators. Of course that may have been one of your posts on the old forums since it was around the time the fix was on the test server... That was also when i first learned about defense typing and how attack rolls were handled.

[blacksly]

Agreed. Hey is anyone but me working on a UBER build for each character class? I want a monster soloing toon for each (or as least as close to soloing as I can get). Been working that MIDS overtime.

I have my AV-soloing builds for every AT, every powerset that I plan on running. Something like 30 characters, not counting the 100 or so builds that didn't make the top-30 list.

Yeah, I get itchy mouse palms while the waiting goes on.

[Prism Almidu]

I have my AV-soloing builds for every AT, every powerset that I plan on running. Something like 30 characters, not counting the 100 or so builds that didn't make the top-30 list.

Yeah, I get itchy mouse palms while the waiting goes on.

Yeah, I've been doing the same, though I don't have quite so many characters. There's my main, an original character that I've been slowly working on a story with, though I do have a 6.5 page short story to link an as yet unwritten point in the future to the Galaxy City tutorial. The other builds I've been working on are the first 12 trolls readers meet in the webcomic Homestuck. Now, I probably won't be using the outfits I made, because I'm not Hussie, but the builds themselves have come out quite nicely, particularly for Aradia (Grav/Time Defender) and Kanaya (Dark/Titan Tanker). That's how I've been spending a lot of time lately lol

[Arcana]

Very nice, thankyou for that info.

as for chain damage; so when it rerolled against the new target did it roll against the player at full power the same as the first target? or did it weaken in all stats as it passed to the next target?

for example:
Player has: 100% ToHit
Attack has: 100% accuracy

enemy1 has: 50% def to the damage type the attack is coded as., attack hits (150% accuracy left over)
chain
enemy 2 has: 50% def, attack hits (100% accuracy left over)
chain
enemy 3 has: 50% def, (50% chance to hit target) roll 1 to 100, number is 52, attack does not hit target end chain.

I really want to make a system as close to CoX as possible without offending it's IP rights. so figuring out little things like this is key.

There is no such thing as left-over defense.  Hypothetically speaking, suppose we are dealing with a chain effect where the target of the attack is then granted an attack that triggers the next hop in the chain.  It goes like this:

Initial attack: attacker +100% tohit, +100% accuracy.  Target: 50% defense (to type).  Assume attacker is player, target has identical combat level (no combat modifiers, aka no purple patch).

Result: Base chance to hit for player vs even target: 75%.  Net chance to hit target = (1 + acc) * (Base + TohitBuffs - Defense) = (1+1) * (75 + 100 - 50) = 2 * (125) = 250%.  This is capped to 95% maximum tohit ceiling.  Attacker rolls tohit roll: if roll <= 95%, target is hit.  If roll > 95, attacker misses.

Assume attacker hits.  Target is granted chain attack.  Target1 then attacks Target2.  Target1 is a critter, presume minion.  Also presume Target2 identical level.  Attacker base chance to hit target = 50%.  Net chance to hit target = (1 + acc) * (Base + tohitbuffs - defese) = (1 + 0) * (50 - 50) = 1 * (0) = 0.  Net chance to hit increased to the minimum tohit floor of 5%.  Attacker rolls tohit roll, if tohit roll <= 5 then hit, otherwise miss.

Repeat for Target2 as attacker, Target3 as target.

Every time a power is triggered that affects a target, either it autohits (because its flagged "autohit targets") or it rolls a tohit roll.  That tohit roll must be less than or equal to the chance to hit.  The chance for an attacker to hit a target is computed based on the base chance for that entity to hit anything, modified by combat modifiers (aka the purple patch), then modified by tohit buffs/debuffs of the attacker and the defense buffs/debuffs of the target, a 5% minimum floor is applied to this number (what I referred to as the intermediate floor), *then* that number is multiplied by the total accuracy of the attacker, and then by the total accuracy of the attack (these were separate and did not sum together), and then a final 5%/95% floor/ceiling was applied to that number.  That was the final chance to hit the target.  This was computed every time a power was activated against a target, and used the exact values of each property for the attacker and the target for that power at that time.  Except for the case of the streakbreaker, attacks had no memory.

[Reiraku]

It was never supposed to do that, but the bug took a while to be noticed and fixed.  If I recall correctly, it was first noticed within the context of Dark Melee attacks.

They nerfed the acc on Dark Melee again!  ;D