New efforts!

[Abraxus]

One of the major things that bothered me about the last Superman movie. Huge break in character, classic Supes always tried to take the fight away from civilians, not level cities during the fight. . .

Another thing you have to bear in mind is that, this is newly minted Superman.  The Superman most folks envision is the one who has been fighting against the forces of evil for years, and knows from painful experience how to protect a city, and the world.  This was not him.  This is the one who still has those painful lessons to learn, and we witnessed two of them in this movie.  The destruction during his battle with Zod, and the necessity to kill Zod, but he still has a LOT to learn about how to be Superman! 

Another point would be that, the World Engine had already destroyed a good portion of the city, and evacuations would have been well underway (to the extent possible), so the casualty count as collateral damage from the fight itself would not have been as high as some have speculated.  Most of them would have happened during the gravity crushing effect when nobody had figured out how much danger they were in from the ship hovering above the city center.

My guess is that Batman will take Superman to task over a lot of this in the next movie, which will become a part of his education on how to be the Superman we know.

[Arcana]

I agree but

Spoiler for Hidden:

Zod knew that he didn't want to fight near civilians and was making him stay in the area for that reason.  Doing whatever it took to win.

Actually, its simpler than that:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Zod explicitly stated that he wanted to kill the humans to make Kal suffer: its actually reasonable to assume Superman could not have led Zod away from Metropolis because while he was there Zod would have focused the fight on him, but if he tried to leave Zod would transparently see through that and just start killing people until Superman was forced to fight him on his terms.  I think Superman knew that when Zod confronted him.  In spite of movie viewers harping over this, its entirely illogical when confronted with someone who says "I'm going to kill everyone in this room" that if you run away he'll follow you and save them.  Its logical to assume he'll kill everyone in the room whether you leave or not.

Not sure why we're spoiler-protecting a two year old movie, but there it is.

[Felderburg]

I' m just said that after 5 years of build up almost nothing was put in for the Iconians. They could have put one or two ships in the older missions or a fight on the ground with a platoon or two. Something that shows a war, instead of two missions and two group. :)

I haven't played STO in years, so I can't say much about that. However, it is worth noting that pretty much every mission in the game is driven by Undine infiltration, which is driven by Iconian interference... So you've been fighting the Iconian war the entire time you've been playing.

The Deus Ex Machina of the Prophets intercepting the Dominion attack fleet

I will say I really liked the way STO used that.

Not sure why we're spoiler-protecting a two year old movie, but there it is.

Well I haven't seen it. Besides, once a movie gets old enough, it should be spoiler protected for people that weren't born when it came out. No reason to spoil it for someone who wasn't physically (existentially?) able to see it.

[Abraxus]

Actually, its simpler than that:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Zod explicitly stated that he wanted to kill the humans to make Kal suffer: its actually reasonable to assume Superman could not have led Zod away from Metropolis because while he was there Zod would have focused the fight on him, but if he tried to leave Zod would transparently see through that and just start killing people until Superman was forced to fight him on his terms.  I think Superman knew that when Zod confronted him.  In spite of movie viewers harping over this, its entirely illogical when confronted with someone who says "I'm going to kill everyone in this room" that if you run away he'll follow you and save them.  Its logical to assume he'll kill everyone in the room whether you leave or not.

Not sure why we're spoiler-protecting a two year old movie, but there it is.

Oh, I think you are absolutely correct!  Zod wanted to inflict maximum casualties on Kal's adopted world.  I think a lot of the complaints were not so much with what Zod forced him to do, but that he did not seem to have the presence of mind, experience, or wisdom to somehow counter that strategy as would the Superman everyone is so familiar with.  As I have insisted, this ain't him.  He would be no more prepared for something like this than a regular human being who had suddenly discovered he had super powers.  He was raised on Earth, with earthly sensibilities.  He might have finally understood something of his physical capabilities, he was in no way mentally prepared to deal with a problem of this magnitude.  He was pretty much on defense most of the time, trying to win each encounter as it happened.  As much as he might have wished to win and minimize collateral damage, it was just not possible at this point in his super hero career. 

I have heard no end of venom aimed at his killing of Zod, but that single action, despite the contradiction to his own principals, likely saved more lives than any one thing he did!  It was truly the better of two horrendous options he had at that moment, and despite the cost to his own psyche, and his soul, he did it anyway.  That is what I took away from it, and that is what I believe was intended.  From that perspective, there was nothing wrong with the sequence, or the movie.  On the other hand, I still think Batman will bring up most of the same points when they meet, and perhaps then he can explain it all himself to our mutual satisfaction.

[Aggelakis]

Well I haven't seen it. Besides, once a movie gets old enough, it should be spoiler protected for people that weren't born when it came out. No reason to spoil it for someone who wasn't physically (existentially?) able to see it.

Yeah, because once a movie leaves the theaters, you can't ever see it again, ever. Are you shitting me?

Hey guys, Princess Buttercup marries Westley, who is the Dread Pirate Roberts.

A couple months, a year at most (I would never spoiler tag something a year old, personally), then spoiler tags are so not necessary. Gives the people who only kinda want to see it time to lollygag their way into a theater or rent/buy it. Beyond that, you're being stupid. lol

[Mistress Urd]

Yeah, because once a movie leaves the theaters, you can't ever see it again, ever. Are you shitting me?

Hey guys, Princess Buttercup marries Westley, who is the Dread Pirate Roberts.

A couple months, a year at most (I would never spoiler tag something a year old, personally), then spoiler tags are so not necessary. Gives the people who only kinda want to see it time to lollygag their way into a theater or rent/buy it. Beyond that, you're being stupid. lol

A month is generally enough. Considering the average drop off most movies have from week 1 to week 2.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Yeah, because once a movie leaves the theaters, you can't ever see it again, ever. Are you shitting me?

Hey guys, Princess Buttercup marries Westley, who is the Dread Pirate Roberts.

A couple months, a year at most (I would never spoiler tag something a year old, personally), then spoiler tags are so not necessary. Gives the people who only kinda want to see it time to lollygag their way into a theater or rent/buy it. Beyond that, you're being stupid. lol

It takes 2 seconds to add the tag, and some people are touchy about it.  In my opinion there is no such thing as a spoiler.  You can explain a movie to me in detail 3 days after it comes out and I will still go see it.   Experiencing the story and knowing what happens are two different thing's.  However it's easier to just spoiler tag it and avoid people  bitching about spoilers.  And complaining about having to click a tab that says spoiler is even dumber then using the tag in the first place.

It's easier to just make it so it isn't a spoiler, and if someone wants to take part in the conversation they can just click on it and see what it say's.

Spoiler for Hidden:

There is nothing interesting here, spoiler alert

[Twisted Toon]

Yeah, because once a movie leaves the theaters, you can't ever see it again, ever. Are you shitting me?

Hey guys, Princess Buttercup marries Westley, who is the Dread Pirate Roberts.

A couple months, a year at most (I would never spoiler tag something a year old, personally), then spoiler tags are so not necessary. Gives the people who only kinda want to see it time to lollygag their way into a theater or rent/buy it. Beyond that, you're being stupid. lol

Actually (going from the movie, since I haven't read the book), there is no mention of Westley and Buttercup getting married. Granted, I'm sure they did, eventually. After Westley picked his successor, possibly Inigo Montoya (You killed my father. Prepare to die.) or some other worthy person that was willing to hold to the persona of the ruthless Dread Pirate Roberts. I dont' think that Fesik would have been all that great a Dread Pirate...too much rhyming. And I mean it. Also, did Fesik really have a peanut?

[FloatingFatMan]

Well I haven't seen it. Besides, once a movie gets old enough, it should be spoiler protected for people that weren't born when it came out. No reason to spoil it for someone who wasn't physically (existentially?) able to see it.

I doubt there's any 2 year olds on this forum... :P

[Noyjitat]

I think hes talking about the original movie. Not the more recent one.

[darkgob]

No one thought to use computer viruses against the Borg.  No one thought to use actual viruses against the Founders.

What?  Both of these things happened.  The computer virus idea was abandoned because some nerd thought genocide maybe wasn't a cool idea.  The actual virus idea was actually used by Section 31 (they fired the nerd with morals) and was a major plot point.

You also suggested that the Dominion was defeated by deus ex machina, and while the Prophets did stop reinforcements from coming through the Wormhole to reinforce the Dominion-occupied DS9, that wasn't the end of the war.  The Dominion fell back to Cardassia, where it was defeated one year later by the Alliance fleet and the Cardassians turning against the Dominion once the Founder decided to start bombing Cardassia as revenge for Damar's resistance.  She surrendered partly because of that, partly on Odo's urging, and partly because she had no cure for the virus afflicting both her and the Great Link back in the Gamma Quadrant.

[Felderburg]

I think hes talking about the original movie. Not the more recent one.

I'm just talking movies in general.

Experiencing the story and knowing what happens are two different thing's.

This is very true. And I'm relatively ok with spoilers to a certain extent, although that's mostly because I don't really watch movies.

A couple months, a year at most (I would never spoiler tag something a year old, personally), then spoiler tags are so not necessary. Gives the people who only kinda want to see it time to lollygag their way into a theater or rent/buy it. Beyond that, you're being stupid. lol

I'm just trying to be considerate for others. Let's take Back to the Future, for example, which came out in 1985. To be sure, certain elements of it are ingrained in pop culture, and that's not really very spoilery (saying a "flux capacitor" allows you to travel through time at 88 mph is not so plot-relevant that it destroys the movie for viewers). But if someone born in 1988 (who is now 27 years old) which is three years after BttF came out decides they want to see it for the first time, shouldn't they be protected from spoilers? For me, it wouldn't be a huge deal, but what about for someone that does think spoilers are a big deal? I don't think it's very nice to say "lol too bad, the movie is 30 years old, should've seen it when it came out" when this hypothetical person was not able to do so.

[MM3squints]

I'm just trying to be considerate for others. Let's take Back to the Future, for example, which came out in 1985. To be sure, certain elements of it are ingrained in pop culture, and that's not really very spoilery (saying a "flux capacitor" allows you to travel through time at 88 mph is not so plot-relevant that it destroys the movie for viewers). But if someone born in 1988 (who is now 27 years old) which is three years after BttF came out decides they want to see it for the first time, shouldn't they be protected from spoilers? For me, it wouldn't be a huge deal, but what about for someone that does think spoilers are a big deal? I don't think it's very nice to say "lol too bad, the movie is 30 years old, should've seen it when it came out" when this hypothetical person was not able to do so.

Worst part of that movie is it is now 2015 and I don't have a Pit Bull hover board in my hands >:(

[Sinistar]

Worst part of that movie is it is now 2015 and I don't have a Pit Bull hover board in my hands >:(

I think at this point some of us would rather be anxious for the youth-rejuvination treatment the Doc told Marty about.  :) 8)

[Arcana]

What?  Both of these things happened.  The computer virus idea was abandoned because some nerd thought genocide maybe wasn't a cool idea.  The actual virus idea was actually used by Section 31 (they fired the nerd with morals) and was a major plot point.

You also suggested that the Dominion was defeated by deus ex machina, and while the Prophets did stop reinforcements from coming through the Wormhole to reinforce the Dominion-occupied DS9, that wasn't the end of the war.  The Dominion fell back to Cardassia, where it was defeated one year later by the Alliance fleet and the Cardassians turning against the Dominion once the Founder decided to start bombing Cardassia as revenge for Damar's resistance.  She surrendered partly because of that, partly on Odo's urging, and partly because she had no cure for the virus afflicting both her and the Great Link back in the Gamma Quadrant.

I believe you are replying to the me from the negative-zone, not the me from this universe, since this seems to be replying to someone who said the exact opposite of what I did.  Although you quoted the part where I said no one tried those things, in the context of the post its obvious that what I meant was that no one tried those things until the Federation came along and succeeded wildly.  And I didn't say the Dominion was defeated by Deus Ex Machine, I said that while the fleet was intercepted the way the story ultimately goes its clear that that event shouldn't get credit for defeating the Dominion, because it only accelerated the inevitable-or-very-likely.

[MM3squints]

I think at this point some of us would rather be anxious for the youth-rejuvination treatment the Doc told Marty about.  :) 8)

Ha the future in that movie was so far fetched. I mean, they still used print news as a source of news in that movie. Ridiculous xD

[Arcana]

I'm just trying to be considerate for others. Let's take Back to the Future, for example, which came out in 1985. To be sure, certain elements of it are ingrained in pop culture, and that's not really very spoilery (saying a "flux capacitor" allows you to travel through time at 88 mph is not so plot-relevant that it destroys the movie for viewers). But if someone born in 1988 (who is now 27 years old) which is three years after BttF came out decides they want to see it for the first time, shouldn't they be protected from spoilers? For me, it wouldn't be a huge deal, but what about for someone that does think spoilers are a big deal? I don't think it's very nice to say "lol too bad, the movie is 30 years old, should've seen it when it came out" when this hypothetical person was not able to do so.

That's nice in theory, but we're discussing a game that many of us hope could come back: shouldn't we be spoiler-tagging all of the content of City of Heroes for the possible benefit of someone that didn't play the content and could conceivably play the game again and see if properly?  We were discussing the Dominion War; should that be spoiler-protected from someone that might want to binge DS9 on Netflix one day?  Once you start spoiler tagging everything anyone could possibly have not seen yet and might, it makes it difficult to have reasonable conversations about a lot of things.  So you have to draw the line somewhere.  We spoiler tagged an event in a superhero movie about which anyone who heard practically anything about the movie at all besides the fact that it exists probably knows happened (I only did it because once someone puts the effort into tagging, I tend to propagate the tag as a courtesy).

I tend to try to balance the effort it takes to protect people from spoilers with the effort it will create to discuss around them.  I think the fact in MoS we spoiler tagged is something I wouldn't have on my own, because I don't think its a surprising thing that happens and its likely to have been collaterally spoiled in the two years since then, contrawise its central to the point I was discussing.

I would spoiler tag something like this: (real, actual spoiler for Age of Ultron)

Spoiler for Hidden:

People have the opposite claim about Age of Ultron, that it seems the movie goes far out of its way to highlight the fact that its "different" from MoS by focusing almost exclusively on saving the citizens at the end, but I don't think that's a fair criticism since that focus existed even in the first Avengers movie in my opinion.  The focus was not on beating Loki, it was on trying to get him to focus the fight on them and lessen the damage to civilians.  Although they too did severe damage to the city, Cap's primary job seemed to be to work with local authorities to help reduce civilian casualties.  That's entirely in keeping with the final sequence of Age of Ultron.

Age of Ultron is still in theaters so its worth spoiler tagging.  But I probably wouldn't spoiler tag that in December, because its not enough of a spoiler.  I would definitely still be spoiler tagging this:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Even I was surprised Pietro was the one that bit the bullet, but I think just as Coulson had to die to form the Avengers, someone had to die to show there was a price for staying around and trying to save the civilians - the Avengers could have saved "the world" by destroying that city at any time.

Deep into next year, for obvious reasons: stronger spoiler, longer protection.

[Codewalker]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Snape is Dumbledore's father.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Rosebud is people.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Korben Dallas was dead before the movie started.

Spoiler for Hidden:

The Cylons are actually--- CONNECTION INTERRUPT 4 8 15 16 23 42 ----##

Am I doing it right?

[Arcana]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Snape is Dumbledore's father.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Rosebud is people.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Korben Dallas was dead before the movie started.

Spoiler for Hidden:

The Cylons are actually--- CONNECTION INTERRUPT 4 8 15 16 23 42 ----##

Am I doing it right?

Spoiler for Hidden:

No

[Codewalker]

Worst part of that movie is it is now 2015 and I don't have a Pit Bull hover board in my hands >:(

https://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q795/campweezer/forum/pitbullhoverboard_zps9woycg9p.png~original ?