New efforts!

[Volcanichic]

At this point, what other options do any of us have?  NCSoft owns what we want.  You either have to deal with what is available/offered to us or not get anything at all.  Plain and simple.

Until I see more details on whats involved and how it plays out I dont see putting my money into something I paid for previously. And thats my choice. I'm not telling anyone else to feel that way . Hell I even said if people have that much faith in something they have no details on,,then by all means spend all you want. I just said for now and details pending it's not for me. Some people here seem to have issues with honesty.

What other choice do I have? Plenty. There's 3 other games being worked on,that as it stands right now dont involve NCsoft at all. As well as the chance that another company may be working or planing on working on a game that will fill that void in the future.

[Reaper]

What other choice do I have? Plenty. There's 3 other games being worked on,that as it stands right now dont involve NCsoft at all. As well as the chance that another company may be working or planing on working on a game that will fill that void in the future.

That's valid.  There will be alternatives in the future and then you won't have to worry about NCSoft's involvement.  ;)

I'm just going to wait and see how the final deal turns out to really understand what is asked of all parties involved before I make any decisions.  And I think most of us here would want to see some type of proof before we start throwing money at any of these companies.

[Volcanichic]

That's valid.  There will be alternatives in the future and then you won't have to worry about NCSoft's involvement.  ;)

I'm just going to wait and see how the final deal turns out to really understand what is asked of all parties involved before I make any decisions.  And I think most of us here would want to see some type of proof before we start throwing money at any of these companies.

That's all I've ever really said. Yet some people don't like to hear that and want to beat you over the head with the fanboy bat ! :p

[Flamazing Sally]

To Ironwolf and all the other heroes working to get our game back, THANK YOU!.

If NCSoft is involved....I DON'T CARE
If I must start all over....I DON'T CARE
If I must pay to play....I DON'T CARE

I just want to fly in my City and protect the citizens from the evil bad guys.
I love this game and sorely miss it.

Keep up the good work, Ironwolf.   

[MWRuger]

That's all I've ever really said. Yet some people don't like to hear that and want to beat you over the head with the fanboy bat ! :p

It's pretty simple. If you want to play if/when the game comes back, then please do so. If you don't think it is worth the price, then don't.

Yours is not the first voice to state that they want everything back (either characters, perks or both) otherwise they might not/won't play. We will miss you all but will recover.

I would love for everyone who played to come back, but if you can't, then you can't. Those who are willing to play under the new management will do so. While we may miss our old friends who don't feel like they can play, it won't stop us from enjoying ourselves without you. Hopefully you will find some other game to fill the whole that CoH left in your gaming life. It obviously left some hole or else why post here?

In any event, from reading yours and Ironwolf's responses, there isn't any real meat to this argument and you are both basically talking past each other. You assume Fanboyism, he assumes Conspiracy. Really you just disagree with each other.

[Volcanichic]

It's pretty simple. If you want to play if/when the game comes back, then please do so. If you don't think it is worth the price, then don't.

Yours is not the first voice to state that they want everything back (either characters, perks or both) otherwise they might not/won't play. We will miss you all but will recover.

I would love for everyone who played to come back, but if you can't, then you can't. Those who are willing to play under the new management will do so. While we may miss our old friends who don't feel like they can play, it won't stop us from enjoying ourselves without you. Hopefully you will find some other game to fill the whole that CoH left in your gaming life. It obviously left some hole or else why post here?

In any event, from reading yours and Ironwolf's responses, there isn't any real meat to this argument and you are both basically talking past each other. You assume Fanboyism, he assumes Conspiracy. Really you just disagree with each other.

It's the paying again with the very real possibility that they yank it yet again the bugs me. And as said before pending more information is something I'm not crazy about doing.  Now if people want to twist that into agenda and conspiracy theory to put their own minds at ease ,well ,,that's their issue.

[Fable]

That's all I've ever really said. Yet some people don't like to hear that and want to beat you over the head with the fanboy bat ! :p

NCsoft is getting paid for the game one way or another, wether you like it or not (assuming the deal goes though). Beyond that, the new company is getting the money, I don't see why that's so hard to understand. If they have to pay to lease it you're not hurting NCsoft with your lack of support, you're hurting the company that revives the game. I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to figure out why exactly you're here then. You don't want want to pay for something you think you already paid for, fine then don't play (seems misguided at best). You don't want to be tied to NCsoft and won't sub, fine, don't. Which brings me back to my question. Why are you here? To troll? Gratz mission accomplished.

COX/NCsoft/other successors aside. Using thinly vailed insults and phrases like "rock on" or silly little smiley faces in an effort to hide them, doesn't fool anyone. Anyone with half a brain sees exactly what you're trying to do.

[Volcanichic]

NCsoft is getting paid for the game one way or another, wether you like it or not (assuming the deal goes though). Beyond that, the new company is getting the money, I don't see why that's so hard to understand. If they have to pay to lease it you're not hurting NCsoft with your lack of support, you're hurting the company that revives the game. I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to figure out why exactly you're here then. You don't want want to pay for something you think you already paid for, fine then don't play (seems misguided at best). You don't want to be tied to NCsoft and won't sub, fine, don't. Which brings me back to my question. Why are you here? To troll? Gratz mission accomplished.

COX/NCsoft/other successors aside. Using thinly vailed insults and phrases like "rock on" or silly little smiley faces in an effort to hide them, doesn't fool anyone. Anyone with half a brain sees exactly what you're trying to do.

I have that right to feel that way and have those concerns. Still cant see why people want to fly off the rails when someone is just being honest. It's to easy to label someone a troll or say they have an agenda to ease your own concerns when someone brings up a valid point. And yet again I said ,,like all along ,,pending more information.

But while I get called out as having an agenda or even a troll ,,gawd forbid I call anyone out for blind fanboyism .

[darkgob]

Name-calling is good for antagonizing people and little else.  You're being just as dismissive as you claim others are being towards you.

[Volcanichic]

Name-calling is good for antagonizing people and little else.  You're being just as dismissive as you claim others are being towards you.

Thats just what I mean. It's all good to call someone a troll or say they have an agenda when they have a valid point.  But just because I implied the use of the word fanboyism and not actually called anyone as such, I'm now on their level?

[MM3squints]

NCsoft is getting paid for the game one way or another, wether you like it or not (assuming the deal goes though). Beyond that, the new company is getting the money, I don't see why that's so hard to understand. If they have to pay to lease it you're not hurting NCsoft with your lack of support, you're hurting the company that revives the game. I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to figure out why exactly you're here then. You don't want want to pay for something you think you already paid for, fine then don't play (seems misguided at best). You don't want to be tied to NCsoft and won't sub, fine, don't. Which brings me back to my question. Why are you here? To troll? Gratz mission accomplished.

COX/NCsoft/other successors aside. Using thinly vailed insults and phrases like "rock on" or silly little smiley faces in an effort to hide them, doesn't fool anyone. Anyone with half a brain sees exactly what you're trying to do.

I don't think it is that NC Soft is getting paid is one of his grievances (there are many, but NC Soft itself getting money is more than likely not the issue.) What seems to be the issue for Volcanichic appears to be two parts. One is that NC Soft will have an influence in the "post NC Soft" CoX because as Ironwolf said

Uh no, the holding company is NOT NCSoft. The LEASING group that leases the IP will have an NCSoft presence so they can see where the name is going - since it has their logo on it.

But in the next paragraph, Ironwolf explained the holding company is an independent entity

The company running the old game is completely independent. They are paying to get the software, run the servers and maintain the Classic game. They will need money to do this unless the federal government decrees that CoH is too big to fail and bails it out - while with the insanity we have in Washington makes this remotely possible, don't count on it.

By having someone in representing NC Soft interest, what I can gather, Volcanichic believes that literally NC Soft having a hand inside the holding company, in a sense the person who will take up that position will be NC Soft's lap dog and the future of CoX will be affected by this one individual's input and whatever NC Soft says to do, therefore, even though this is a so called independent holding company, it will be influenced by NC Soft. It is a valid argument, but Volcanichic should take his own advice and wait till everything is settled. Yes a person is there to represent NC Soft, but who knows what the extent of the person's input will have. The position can be an overseer or it can just be a figurehead ambassador, who knows.

The second grievance Volcanichic has is basically paying to do the same thing twice. Again it is a valid argument, but many people express they didn't care and Volcanichic said he's not trying to sway opinions, just expressing his own in the current situation. Though he is expressing his opinion, the only counter argument he appears to give if someone challenges his ideas is basically "you're a fanboy, get over yourself", for me at least is a very weak retort and just diminishes the opinion he is trying to express.

[Aggelakis]

So...I don't know if Ironwolf got another tidbit since Downix's announcement, but as of Downix's announcement and for several of his posts after that (sorry Ironwolf, you're not "the horse's mouth" anymore), NCsoft isn't interested in leasing the IP. NCsoft is interested in SELLING the IP. That means after the sale, NCSoft has no vested interest in the IP and cannot ever take it away. It belongs to the holding company. Forever. Or until the holding company sells it. (and the likelihood that ANOTHER company would want to buy a third-hand game is pretty damn low...so...)

Volcanichic, stop accusing people of fanboyism (you'll never win friends that way); Ironwolf, stop accusing people of some strange conspiracy to undermine the effort (you'll also never win friends that way); everyone, stop picking at each other like a bunch of school-yard bullies.

[Volcanichic]

So...I don't know if Ironwolf got another tidbit since Downix's announcement, but as of Downix's announcement and for several of his posts after that (sorry Ironwolf, you're not "the horse's mouth" anymore), NCsoft isn't interested in leasing the IP. NCsoft is interested in SELLING the IP. That means after the sale, NCSoft has no vested interest in the IP and cannot ever take it away. It belongs to the holding company. Forever. Or until the holding company sells it.

SEE!!!! Now thats promising new info if it pans out.  I was worried that NC would be leasing the IP and maintain the right to yank the lease at their leisure. Which would really bite after sinking more cash into it.

Thanks for the info Agge.    Wasn't it also posted somewhere that they have a  member from NC on the holding company as well or is that now out the window?

[Aggelakis]

Downix hasn't posted anything since October 24, so anything that has been said has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's second, possibly third-hand.

[Felderburg]

As far as paying for things twice goes... arguably, you can twist semantics around and say that before the Paragon Market, you paid for the same game every month - so you were paying for the same thing dozens of times. Certainly before extra boxes and booster packs that was true  :P

As for the game being yanked again... that is arguably a concern, whether NCsoft sells the IP or not. Whether NCsoft or a new independent company holds the IP and leases it to someone running a CoH server, there has to be some incentive for them continuing to lease it. I assume that will be regular payments, as a percentage of costs paid to the new CoH company (if it's a one-time payment to perpetually hold the license for an I23 release of CoH, that'd be great!). But if those payments slow down, or the IP company decides they're not enough, what happens when they pull the IP? You've got a game that operates, great, but no legal permission to run it without the IP company's permission, whether that's NCsoft or a new company.

[MWRuger]

{removed}

[Volcanichic]

You certainly have a right to feel as you like. At the same time everyone else does as well. You've made your point. By constantly repeating it and continuing your labeling of those who disagree as suffering from "blind fanboyism" you are confirming that you are more interested in baiting than discussing.

To you and squint,, Show me where I called anyone a fanboy? You wont find it. You can twist things  and say this sounds as such.  But the fact is I was commenting on the fact that people want to call someone a troll or say they have an agenda just for voicing a genuine concern but I if called anyone out for being a fanboy I'd never hear the end of it. And sure enough my point is being proven!

[MM3squints]

To you and squint,, Show me where I called anyone a fanboy? You wont find it. You can twist things  and say this sounds as such.  But the fact is I was commenting on the fact that people want to call someone a troll or say they have an agenda just for voicing a genuine concern but if called anyone out for being a fanboy I'd never hear the end of it. And sure enough my point is being proven!

And again . I said these were my fears and concerns with the game in this thread and another . No agenda to be had . No facts twisted anywhere. I even said to those who are ok with it ,Rock on and enjoy!!!.  But to have someone say there's some hidden agenda when there's none to be had in an effort to dismiss someones genuine concerns. Well ,,isn't that indeed fanboyism at it's core?

Be mad all you want. There's still people with those same concerns. And once again,,like I said before,,maybe more info will be released that will put that to rest ,,maybe not.

Life rolls along right?

That's all I've ever really said. Yet some people don't like to hear that and want to beat you over the head with the fanboy bat ! :p

Heck you even retorted by called out people who call you a troll by calling them out for being a blind fanboy

I have that right to feel that way and have those concerns. Still cant see why people want to fly off the rails when someone is just being honest. It's to easy to label someone a troll or say they have an agenda to ease your own concerns when someone brings up a valid point. And yet again I said ,,like all along ,,pending more information.

But while I get called out as having an agenda or even a troll ,,gawd forbid I call anyone out for blind fanboyism .

There is a search function where you can check if you called people out being a fan boy and if we are twisting your logic. Showing how you are being super defensive and your debunked retort you are at this point just trying to create provocation and don't really care about the conversation on hand.

[Aggelakis]

Not joking, guys and gals, I will start deleting posts if we don't stop treating each other as enemies. We all want the game back. Don't call people trolls, don't call people fanboys, don't say people have an agenda (other than...getting the game back)... just stop.

[PsiBug]

 :-X