New efforts!

[Shadowe]

I've played a few Rads in my time, and my anchor target rules were generally:

If there's an EB or higher, he's the anchor.
If not, stick it on a Lieut.

Bosses tend to drop pretty fast because they're the hardest hitting normal foes, so people take the out. Minions drop at least as fast as bosses with a couple of AoEs. Lieuts are the longest lasting foes unless there's an EB or AV in the fight.

[Pyromantic]

I've played a few Rads in my time, and my anchor target rules were generally:

If there's an EB or higher, he's the anchor.
If not, stick it on a Lieut.

Bosses tend to drop pretty fast because they're the hardest hitting normal foes, so people take the out. Minions drop at least as fast as bosses with a couple of AoEs. Lieuts are the longest lasting foes unless there's an EB or AV in the fight.

Well, we're discussing solo farming, so what's going to be taken out by other team members isn't relevant.  I was thinking in the context of large enemy groups and probably no bosses.

Imps (after 32) may take out your anchor target a little earlier than you prefer but I think it's very unlikely that they will focus fire down your target, so you should be able to place anchors on one of the sturdiest targets and spread your damage around to others.  I mean, if you place anchors on a random minion, or put it on a Lt and then start blasting the same target with ST attacks then a lot of efficiency is lost. 

Good targeting binds are really helpful here.  What I did is use several keys like this: I had a bind on shift+g that would begin a chat line with a named targeting bind on the g key.  That allowed me to hit shift+g, type in a name and hit enter, and then g would target enemies with that name until I reset the bind.  Incredibly useful for problem enemies such as BP shaman, and in the case of Fire/ controllers it was easy to cycle through Lts for holds while HF did its work. 

[Felderburg]

Um, isn't "New Freedom" the name of a feminine hygiene product, at least in the US?

Never heard of it. I did find a hands-free trash can: http://freedomhygiene.com/

I'm not sure if "Titan" is appropriate for a new server name, given that only a small subset of the CoH community was ever on the Titan Network.

Speaking of Titans, here's a superhero story set in Titan City from decades ago: http://fightingfantasy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=9

Plan A would be to hack admin on the server and levelup_xp 50.  That will get you from level 1 to level 50 in about two seconds.

Not counting the sunk time to learn how to be able to do that. Sure, you could follow a guide, but to really have the knowledge takes a lot of learning, I would assume.

Ah, the "Kirk Approach."  :)

It disappointed me that the new movie didn't take the approach from the Starfleet Academy game: (spoilers)

Reprogramming the Klingons so that when he hailed them, they knew of him and because of his immense renown, helped him with the rescue efforts.

Ok, that's the other Kirk Approach!  ;D

Apparently there's a deleted scene that shows that is quite literally what happened - he used the green gal to help him since she worked in the simulator lab or something.

[Arcana]

I'm a bit terrified to be that "moron" who doesn't quite know what to do, doesn't contribute, and holds up the team.  I would be ok after I'd done a TF/trial, but that first time it always seemed like I was the only person there who didn't have it memorized.   Some teams moved really fast too and that feeling of "I'm lost" was overwhelming at times.

At least on Triumph, help was always available to those who asked for it.  The specific phase of the Underground I'm referring to required actively being dumb to get lost or separated, which some players still did.  The tunnels are huge and you're just supposed to follow the person designated to lead, and there's a couple dozen other players following him in a giant mob, and no one is supposed to be moving any faster than about sprint speed (because you're looking for bombs to destroy).  That's not something that can actually happen if you're paying attention, only if you decide to go off and do something on your own, look up, and realize you don't know where the group turned next.

[Arcana]

Hmm.  I have no particular data to back this up, but I would have thought Fire/Rad would get there faster than Fire/Kin.  While I'm sure the /Kin goes faster after 38, I would think the /Rad has much more potential to leverage farming in the early game and would be faster to 50 overall.  All the more so when you do not have a bankroll and an available supply of IOs as the servers come online.

Fire/Rad faster than Fire/Kin up to about 35 (mostly due to AM), then Fire/Kin faster (first because of transference, then fulcrum shift).  Thing is, it takes more effort to get from 35 to 50 than from 1 to 35, so that "half" is more important speed-wide.

[Felderburg]

The last several pages are making me want to actually the story in CoH a shot if we get it back.  I never got into it before.

The Wiki is a great place to start! Not just for in-game Lore (via contacts), but also the Lore AMA stuff, the Story Bible, and Canon Fodder articles. There is SO MUCH cool stuff!

[MM3squints]

Well, we're discussing solo farming, so what's going to be taken out by other team members isn't relevant.  I was thinking in the context of large enemy groups and probably no bosses.

Imps (after 32) may take out your anchor target a little earlier than you prefer but I think it's very unlikely that they will focus fire down your target, so you should be able to place anchors on one of the sturdiest targets and spread your damage around to others.  I mean, if you place anchors on a random minion, or put it on a Lt and then start blasting the same target with ST attacks then a lot of efficiency is lost. 

Good targeting binds are really helpful here.  What I did is use several keys like this: I had a bind on shift+g that would begin a chat line with a named targeting bind on the g key.  That allowed me to hit shift+g, type in a name and hit enter, and then g would target enemies with that name until I reset the bind.  Incredibly useful for problem enemies such as BP shaman, and in the case of Fire/ controllers it was easy to cycle through Lts for holds while HF did its work.

It's still a factor that can slow you down, then again pre fullcrum shift, siphon power has the same animation time as EF but the effects of PS can be carried over to the next mob while EF can't. You would be surprised how fast an anchor goes down. With a /Kin you use fire cage use single target like ember or ring of fire that dose moderate DoT to the LT and the trash mob and LT will die usually around the same time (the trash will die from fire cage/hot feet containment alone with little use of single targets)  With /rad you can't do that cause you are using the Lt+ as an anchor and you need to get rid of the trash first then once they are all cleared out, you can focus on the LT (instead of everything at the same time) then move on. Also again spamming fire cages with hot feet running is very end heavy, you also add in EF taxing your end and you will run into end issues (even with AM running) so you need to pace how much fire cage/other attacks you do. /Kins never have to worry about end crash.

Can a fire/rad get to 50 faster than a fire/kin. That is very subjective because a fire/rad can get to lvl 32 alot quicker than a fire/kin, but once a fire/kin gets to lvl 32, the amount of xp gain exceeds that of a fire/rad. I guess it's up the the individual and if they want to get imps fast or reap the after reward.

For targeting bind on my other rad toons, I used /bind F say "$target is a Gold Farmer"$$powexec_name "Enervating Field" (I think that's was how the command was structured, I forget)

[Pyromantic]

Can a fire/rad get to 50 faster than a fire/kin. That is very subjective because a fire/rad can get to lvl 32 alot quicker than a fire/kin, but once a fire/kin gets to lvl 32, the amount of xp gain exceeds that of a fire/rad. I guess it's up the the individual and if they want to get imps fast or reap the after reward.

This was (almost) exactly what I was saying.  A fire/rad is, I expect, a lot more efficient at getting up to 38 or so, with the fire/kin's speed overtaking it at that point.  Which one would get to 50 faster depends on how much faster each is at particular level ranges and how much of the levelling time those ranges represent.  My gut instinct is to say /Rad will have enough of an advantage at lower levels, and be close enough to /Kin at higher levels, that it will end up being faster to 50 overall.

[Pyromantic]

Fire/Rad faster than Fire/Kin up to about 35 (mostly due to AM), then Fire/Kin faster (first because of transference, then fulcrum shift).  Thing is, it takes more effort to get from 35 to 50 than from 1 to 35, so that "half" is more important speed-wide.

Out of curiosity, do you have data on how much more effort?  It's hard to go on memory for these things, as I'm quickly discovering the part of my brain devoted to CoH memory storage has been repurposed in the last few years, but I recall that the median level of a character that was halfway to 50 (in terms of time spent) was right around 38.

I'm really curious now as to how the speed of these two builds compares at different levels.  I'm wondering how much /Rad can leverage early-game assets to set mish difficulty as compared to /Kin.

[MM3squints]

This was (almost) exactly what I was saying.  A fire/rad is, I expect, a lot more efficient at getting up to 38 or so, with the fire/kin's speed overtaking it at that point.  Which one would get to 50 faster depends on how much faster each is at particular level ranges and how much of the levelling time those ranges represent.  My gut instinct is to say /Rad will have enough of an advantage at lower levels, and be close enough to /Kin at higher levels, that it will end up being faster to 50 overall.

Keep in mind low level or high level, /rad will always have end problems especially with a heavy end aura like hot feet thus slowing down the overall xp/min gain. Also getting to lvl 32 especially with the current setup isn't that hard with no AE or PL required. If you are in it for pure XP to make a farmer, do the following steps for soloing

Lvl 1-21 Just keep running DFB. You never have to spend money on new enchantments and the XP gain from those is excellent until lvl 21

This shouldn't take longer than 6 hours of game play

lvl 22-25

Do the Faultine Story Arc. You can crank through them very fast and the end bonuses for each arc are huge

lvl 24-28

Do Striga Island Story Arcs. Like Faultline end of arc bonuses are huge

lvl 27-31

Do Croatoa Story Arc. Like Faultine end of arc bonuses are huge

Up to this part, this shouldn't take more than 20 hours of game play. This phase my best time was done in 15 hours with a troller

lvl 30-35

Keep grinding Katie Hanon TF

lvl35+

Do ITFs and fillers if an ITF isn't available

So if you just want to level purely for leveling, the much of the pre 32 factor is gone. Getting xp post lvl 32 is alot harder than pre because you need to do "Fillers" because there are no special zones like Straga, Croatoa, Faultline in the high level where they give out crazy end of arc XP (what I'm talking about is the bonus you get from these arc not only from completing all of the contacts mission, but they will give "free xp" after giving the end of contact xp. Other "normal contact" only give end of contact bonus) while waiting for ITFs to be formed. So in the grand scheme of things, a fire/kin can get to 50 alot faster

[Codewalker]

I wish I could remember where I had seen it, but someone posted a really nice chart once where they divided the total amount of XP needed to get to the next level, but the amount of XP that defeating an even-con minion of that level rewards.

I kind of think that was before the last round of "XP curve smoothing", so it's probably not accurate anymore, but gave a very good idea of exactly how much effort leveling takes at various times.

[Arcana]

Out of curiosity, do you have data on how much more effort?  It's hard to go on memory for these things, as I'm quickly discovering the part of my brain devoted to CoH memory storage has been repurposed in the last few years, but I recall that the median level of a character that was halfway to 50 (in terms of time spent) was right around 38.

I'm really curious now as to how the speed of these two builds compares at different levels.  I'm wondering how much /Rad can leverage early-game assets to set mish difficulty as compared to /Kin.

There's an XP chart I must have a copy of somewhere, but XP alone doesn't tell the story.  Leveling difficulty is a combination of how many target defeats (on average) it takes to level, times how difficult it is to defeat those targets.  The number of minion-defeats it took to level increased steadily to level 40 and then I think leveled off, but targets continued to get more difficult to defeat because their health rose faster than player damage.

Offsetting that to some degree was the fact that players got more and stronger slotting options.  So one factor that would influence which build could reach 50 faster is the degree to which you make strong enhancements available.  If you can only use what you earn, I think that would partially offset the higher efficiency of Fire/Rad at early levels.  If you were to make the strongest possible to slot enhancements available to both builds without regard to the characters needing to earn them, Fire/Rad's performance would increase.

[Arcana]

Lvl 1-21 Just keep running DFB. You never have to spend money on new enchantments and the XP gain from those is excellent until lvl 21

I never tested this with precision, but I did test DA with Fire/Kin.  I'm wondering if DA farming would have been competitive or even faster than DFB for the appropriate levels (10-20, more or less).

I can say done right it was so fast that you could be doing most of your leveling while buffed by the level inspiration burst in the low to mid teens.  In fact part of the advantage is the fact you always could leverage those buffs which were substantial in the early levels (because they were not competing with a lot of enhancement slotting).  In DFB, you could waste many dings exiting the mission.

[Pyromantic]

Keep in mind low level or high level,

{snip}

Well, from my perspective this doesn't have anything to do with the question.  It wasn't about which one will be a better farmer after 50.  It's about which one could farm itself to 50 faster.  As soon as you're talking about team content it's an entirely different thing.

[Arcana]

I wish I could remember where I had seen it, but someone posted a really nice chart once where they divided the total amount of XP needed to get to the next level, but the amount of XP that defeating an even-con minion of that level rewards.

I kind of think that was before the last round of "XP curve smoothing", so it's probably not accurate anymore, but gave a very good idea of exactly how much effort leveling takes at various times.

Yeah, the chart is out of date, and so would require some corrections to properly represent I23.  In fact I think the charts date back to I9, so they might be *two* XP adjustments behind.

[MM3squints]

Well, from my perspective this doesn't have anything to do with the question.  It wasn't about which one will be a better farmer after 50.  It's about which one could farm itself to 50 faster.  As soon as you're talking about team content it's an entirely different thing.

What I wrote wasn't after 50 farming. What I posted is the "optimal" from what I did when making new toons to get to 50 the quickest w/o relying on a PL Farmer. If you want to run the toon 1-50 solo, it would be what my last post said, but the last post is just for a pure xp standpoint.

Also low level rad is far worse than higher level. You have less end mods, you consume more end so that means you kill stuff slower. End is always an issue with Rad no matter what level you are and especially with lower level, you are handicapped cause of it. (This is both solo and team, solo being worse because you have to do all the dps yourself)

[Pyromantic]

What I wrote wasn't after 50 farming. What I posted is the "optimal" from what I did when making new toons to get to 50 the quickest w/o relying on a PL Farmer. If you want to run the toon 1-50 solo, it would be what my last post said, but the last post is just for a pure xp standpoint.

Also low level rad is far worse than higher level. You have less end mods, you consume more end so that means you kill stuff slower. End is always an issue with Rad no matter what level you are and especially with lower level, you are handicapped cause of it. (This is both solo and team, solo being worse because you have to do all the dps yourself)

Yes, but I wasn't talking about the fastest way to get to 50.  I was specifically referring to Arcana's list of options on getting to 50, for which option 3 was farm a Fire/Kin to 50.  (Well, I actually responded to someone who responded to that, but same difference.)

And, it made me wonder if you wouldn't be better off using a Fire/Rad if that was your goal.

Endurance is an issue for just about everyone at low levels.  At least it got better after inherent stamina.  My recollection is that it's worse for /Kin than /Rad.  Yes /Rad has toggles, but those toggles are in effect making your other powers more end-efficient, it has AM, and /Kin's click powers aren't exactly cheap either.

[Pyromantic]

There's an XP chart I must have a copy of somewhere, but XP alone doesn't tell the story.  Leveling difficulty is a combination of how many target defeats (on average) it takes to level, times how difficult it is to defeat those targets.  The number of minion-defeats it took to level increased steadily to level 40 and then I think leveled off, but targets continued to get more difficult to defeat because their health rose faster than player damage.

Offsetting that to some degree was the fact that players got more and stronger slotting options.  So one factor that would influence which build could reach 50 faster is the degree to which you make strong enhancements available.  If you can only use what you earn, I think that would partially offset the higher efficiency of Fire/Rad at early levels.  If you were to make the strongest possible to slot enhancements available to both builds without regard to the characters needing to earn them, Fire/Rad's performance would increase.

Yep.  This is why I specified by time instead of by kills.  I think without data specifically on this question you would need something like XP rates or kill speed by level, and I was curious if you had access to that.

I recall reading on the forums that the halfway point in terms of time was in the upper 30s, but that's going from memory of a while ago, I don't know how accurate the data was in the first place, and XP curve may have changed since then anyway.  It may also not be representative in the particular cases of a soloing Fire/Kin or Fire/Rad.

[MM3squints]

Yes, but I wasn't talking about the fastest way to get to 50.  I was specifically referring to Arcana's list of options on getting to 50, for which option 3 was farm a Fire/Kin to 50.  (Well, I actually responded to someone who responded to that, but same difference.)

And, it made me wonder if you wouldn't be better off using a Fire/Rad if that was your goal.

Endurance is an issue for just about everyone at low levels.  At least it got better after inherent stamina.  My recollection is that it's worse for /Kin than /Rad.  Yes /Rad has toggles, but those toggles are in effect making your other powers more end-efficient, it has AM, and /Kin's click powers aren't exactly cheap either.

I can't speak for Arcana, but when I assumed she said farm to lvl 50 over a weekend without killing herself, I would assume she means the fastest way possible, not just by soling (because of the over the weekend factor) Again, can't speak for her.

I don't have mids on me so I can't tell you exact cost of the SP, SB etc. The difference between /kin and /rad is rad needs to maintain a end threshold to be effective while /kins can go and crash. For a /Kin your end crashes, you loose hot feet, but you still maintain your buffs and still can attack, do the full effect of your dps and move onto the next mob. With /rad you can't crash or you will loose EF, the one factor that makes /rads more powerful than /kins early game. But hey when the game goes live, we can have a contest you make a fire/rad and I make a fire/kin and see who can get to lvl 50 first :P

[dwturducken]

Before we continue ... How do you know that?

I'm actually more embarrassed by the truth than by anything you might imagine: Yakov Smirnoff.  :-[