Best build for Fire/Fire

[Arcana]

Seriously? I feel much better about not spending much time playing blasters now.

Blaster damage was lower than it should have been based on my calculations, but I'm not sure this particular comparison is a fair one.  You're comparing stacked rage plus Fiery Embrace plus the damage debuff from bruising on KO Blow verses BU + Aim and zero defiance on TF.  That's the best possible damage buff and resistance debuff on tankers vs not the best situation on Blasters.

The best situation on blasters for Total Focus would be Sonic/EM.  You'd reasonably average something along the lines of -25% resistance on Sonic or more, and blasters would typically average about +30% defiance.  That would make TF land for 55.6012 * 3.56 * (1.95 + 1.0 + 0.625 + 0.3) * 1.25 = 958.93.

But that's not the best single target attack situation for blasters overall.  A slightly better option would be Midnight Grasp on a Sonic/Dark.  MG deals some of its damage as a 3 second DoT, but counting all damage and with a saturated Soul Drain (+150%) you'd get to 55.6102 * 3.24 * (1.95 + 1.5 + 0.625 + 0.3) * 1.25 = 985.34.

[Arcana]

Well realistically the blaster would probably have some Defiance as well, increasing it a bit. But yeah, you kind of expect more from the supposed "kings of damage".

But if we get I24, I would definitely suggest trying a blaster, as they will become completely different (much better). With the new snipes and nukes, they really would become the kings of damage, in my opinion.

I was concerned about defender and corruptors catching up with Blasters due to getting similar benefits, but I hadn't even considered all the possibilities fully at shutdown.  I24 had all sorts of unusual possibilities the players had not fully considered yet.  Consider Sonic/Martial.  This is a combination that I24 would have made possible that no one had really seen before: Amplify -> Dreadful Wail -> Burst -> Burst -> Burst of Speed.  Even assuming zero defiance to start (and assuming I remember Burst of Speed's mechanics correctly), this combination deals almost 500 points of damage to all targets in the AoE of Burst of Speed on top of Dreadful Wail's damage, in about five seconds.  Its also unique to Blasters.  Tack on a dragon's tail at the end and I think you have about 1000 damage to all targets struck (DT would have the smallest AoE radius) in about six seconds with zero defiance.

Given the calculations I was in the middle of for defenders and corruptors, it still don't think there was enough separation between Blasters and other damage dealers.  But I think for the average player, Blasters would do more damage than other archetypes in most situations they would encounter.  Not enough more to justify other weaknesses, but better than pre-I23.

[Ankhammon]

I was concerned about defender and corruptors catching up with Blasters due to getting similar benefits, but I hadn't even considered all the possibilities fully at shutdown.  I24 had all sorts of unusual possibilities the players had not fully considered yet.  Consider Sonic/Martial.  This is a combination that I24 would have made possible that no one had really seen before: Amplify -> Dreadful Wail -> Burst -> Burst -> Burst of Speed.  Even assuming zero defiance to start (and assuming I remember Burst of Speed's mechanics correctly), this combination deals almost 500 points of damage to all targets in the AoE of Burst of Speed on top of Dreadful Wail's damage, in about five seconds.  Its also unique to Blasters.  Tack on a dragon's tail at the end and I think you have about 1000 damage to all targets struck (DT would have the smallest AoE radius) in about six seconds with zero defiance.

Given the calculations I was in the middle of for defenders and corruptors, it still don't think there was enough separation between Blasters and other damage dealers.  But I think for the average player, Blasters would do more damage than other archetypes in most situations they would encounter.  Not enough more to justify other weaknesses, but better than pre-I23.

Hah! I was just commenting on this in another thread. The more I looked at what I24 was actually bringing the more it seemed that it was going to really alter the game. Something that needs to be kept in mind by our future insect overlords.

Yeah, the blasters definitely needed some alterations. I don't even mind the concept as you've described it with your Sonic/Martial. You didn't even add in the damage mitigation factor that many blaster secondaries usually lacked (loved dragons tail for that).

Many other ATs could bend their focus like this and it was ok. But definitely should have been being looked at.

For example, I had a TA/Ice defender who could pull huge amounts of damage quite often without a long setup time. It got a lot better if you included all the bells and whistles... pushing 3K aoe damage if I wanted it... it was due to be somewhat nerfed in I24. http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1487&c=693&a=1386&f=HEX&dc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

[Supermax]

I'm not sure this particular comparison is a fair one.

I just used TF because it has a similar longish animation, but overall I agree.

But the most fair comparison I can think of isn't a one power comparison at all. While the melee classes specialize in the big hitting melee attacks (for the most part), blasters specialize in fast attacks and continuous damage. In the same time it takes the tank to use Jab+KoB, the blaster (in I24) can use the snipe, blaze, and fire blast (just one example). All from 80+ feet, and adding up to 1647 damage. Roughly the same amount of activation time, but the tank is put to shame. And while the tank has to wait a bit for KoB to recharge, the blaster can go right back to his attack chain and keep firing off the same attacks.

Of course the difference is, the tank can go anywhere and do anything...and live. The blaster has to pick his fights and use lots of strategy...and he'll likely still die sometimes :)

[Arcana]

Yeah, the blasters definitely needed some alterations. I don't even mind the concept as you've described it with your Sonic/Martial. You didn't even add in the damage mitigation factor that many blaster secondaries usually lacked (loved dragons tail for that).

Sonic was always the unsung hero of blaster damage mitigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIj68cWnYAA&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Its only one powerset, and a powerset (or a build) does not an archetype make, but it was one of the arguments I made for higher blaster damage mitigation: Sonic/* wasn't game breaking, and it has *loads* of damage mitigation *and* offensive buff.  It was one of my base models of blaster mitigation moving into I24.


You think Sonic/Mental was going to be strong?  This is a test video I made for I24 beta, comparing Willpower to Bio Armor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZw_I5xkrGA&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Bio is in the foreground and Willpower is in the background.  Both are level 39 tanking even level critters: minions and LTs.  So here's the thing:

1.  Bio is tanking more stuff.  Willpower is tanking 10.  Bio is tanking 11, the same spawn composition plus one more minion.

2.  Bio is only slotted with SOs.  Willpower is slotted with common IOs.

3.  Bio is not using DNA siphon (its powerful PBAoE heal) or Genetic Contamination (which has a -DMG debuff component, but also is a damage aura which would have eventually killed off the minions, so I didn't want to use it).

In other words, Bio with no inventions at all (not even common IOs) can out tank Willpower with one hand tied behind its back.  Wanna see what Bio could do if someone actually used all the powers and decided to slot common IOs?

Level 32 Bio tanking the aggro cap of +5 Rikti:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6bkyUXYlNU&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Incidentally, I did this to try to avoid a repeat of Willpower.  I did the calculations in beta when Willpower was being tested and concluded it was about twice as strong as it should have been.  Most of the "experts" said it was underpowered, and it was actually slightly *buffed* before live.  We all know how that went.  This time, I decided calculations were not enough.  Calculations showed Bio was going to be a monster, and once again there were lots of testers convinced it was weak or would only become strong with high-order invention slotting.

The videos seemed to work better than calculations.

[Arcana]

I just used TF because it has a similar longish animation, but overall I agree.

But the most fair comparison I can think of isn't a one power comparison at all. While the melee classes specialize in the big hitting melee attacks (for the most part), blasters specialize in fast attacks and continuous damage. In the same time it takes the tank to use Jab+KoB, the blaster (in I24) can use the snipe, blaze, and fire blast (just one example). All from 80+ feet, and adding up to 1647 damage. Roughly the same amount of activation time, but the tank is put to shame. And while the tank has to wait a bit for KoB to recharge, the blaster can go right back to his attack chain and keep firing off the same attacks.

Of course the difference is, the tank can go anywhere and do anything...and live. The blaster has to pick his fights and use lots of strategy...and he'll likely still die sometimes :)

You might want to take a look at City of Data.  When I was analyzing offensive performance I made a spreadsheet of every blaster, defender, and corruptor ranged attack and compared to every scrapper, tanker, and brute melee attack.  Guess which one had the higher single target average DPA (in scale damage)?  Its actually shocking.  Try this: take a look at the blaster attacks and just cursory glance through them.  Make mental note of how many do more damage (in scale units) than cast time (in seconds).  Those are attacks that have higher than 1.0 DPA (not corrected for Arcanatime, but this is just an informal look).  Now look at Scrapper sets.  In fact, look at Battle Axe, a set considered slow by most players.  Battle axe has three single target attacks with higher than 1.0 DPA if you count pencil cones as single target attacks.  How many Blaster ranged sets have at least 3 or more? 

The average number of 1.0 or higher attacks for Blaster ranged sets is 1.8.  The average for scrapper sets is 3.1.  Only five Scrapper sets (out of 18 in CoH) have less than 3, and three of them are recognized AoE heavy: Dual Blades, Spines, Titan Weapons.  Conversely, only 3 out of 13 Blaster ranged sets have at least 3 (and none have more than 3): Beam Rifle, Fire Blast, Psychic Blast.

In fact, if you haven't looked at them in a long time, look specifically at Battle Axe and War Mace.  They were long bemoaned for being very slow and having low damage as a result.  Look at their cast times and DPA now.

[Ankhammon]

Sonic was always the unsung hero of blaster damage mitigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIj68cWnYAA&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Its only one powerset, and a powerset (or a build) does not an archetype make, but it was one of the arguments I made for higher blaster damage mitigation: Sonic/* wasn't game breaking, and it has *loads* of damage mitigation *and* offensive buff.  It was one of my base models of blaster mitigation moving into I24.


You think Sonic/Mental was going to be strong?  This is a test video I made for I24 beta, comparing Willpower to Bio Armor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZw_I5xkrGA&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Bio is in the foreground and Willpower is in the background.  Both are level 39 tanking even level critters: minions and LTs.  So here's the thing:

1.  Bio is tanking more stuff.  Willpower is tanking 10.  Bio is tanking 11, the same spawn composition plus one more minion.

2.  Bio is only slotted with SOs.  Willpower is slotted with common IOs.

3.  Bio is not using DNA siphon (its powerful PBAoE heal) or Genetic Contamination (which has a -DMG debuff component, but also is a damage aura which would have eventually killed off the minions, so I didn't want to use it).

In other words, Bio with no inventions at all (not even common IOs) can out tank Willpower with one hand tied behind its back.  Wanna see what Bio could do if someone actually used all the powers and decided to slot common IOs?

Level 32 Bio tanking the aggro cap of +5 Rikti:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6bkyUXYlNU&list=UUkyaL-2ZrJKmVBhTkHHUKvg

Incidentally, I did this to try to avoid a repeat of Willpower.  I did the calculations in beta when Willpower was being tested and concluded it was about twice as strong as it should have been.  Most of the "experts" said it was underpowered, and it was actually slightly *buffed* before live.  We all know how that went.  This time, I decided calculations were not enough.  Calculations showed Bio was going to be a monster, and once again there were lots of testers convinced it was weak or would only become strong with high-order invention slotting.

The videos seemed to work better than calculations.

Unsung hero. :)

I was one of the few singing and praising sonic blast early on. I was one of the few who leveled (no PL) a Sonic/Sonic on Infinity. I remember having to justify my existence on certain pugs. I actually put the numbers in my char bio so it would be easier.
Finally, I just started telling folks "I make tanks and blasters out of the whole team". Close to accurate.
Back to your point, I was fairly aware of the damage mitigation the blast set could pull off.

and Bio seemed like it was going to be the top of the heap defensive set from the get go.

Don't know if my observation was warranted or not, but whenever I saw that a new set had multiple "stances" I thought it was going to be overpowered.
That probably comes from my belief that CoH was best when you figured out the advantage you get from a set and how to exploit it. For instance, Dual Pistol chem rounds could be used to get yourself past the effective resist cap utilizing -Dam.