Best build for Fire/Fire

[rebel 1812]

Hey guys.  I'm excited that COH might be coming back.  If it does the first toon I want to make is a Fire/Fire toon.  I'm thinking about my build already.  Since Fire is the most offensive of the defense sets it doesn't make sense to make it a tank.  So then I was thinking scrapper would be the best build since it has two plus damage buffs.  However, since there isn't any extreme damage skills I think fire/ fire is sub par as a scrapper.  I think the best build would be a hybrid brute.  The damage aura should make it easy to get aggro and build rage. Using many smaller damage attacks would work better for building rage too.  The fire defense is a mix of resistance and regen and regen works better with higher hp.  Do you agree that the best archtype would be a brute?

[Arcana]

Best for what?

[ukaserex]

I'm guessing this will get moved soon, but...

There are a couple of reason I can think of at this early hour (for me) to make your fire/fire a brute, rather than a scrapper. For one, the HP difference.

Scrapper  Base HP =1338.6  Max HP = 2409.5
Brute Base HP = 1499.3  Max HP = 3212.7

The Brute's Fury bar -(not rage) - in my expereince is typically at least half way full, usually 2/3 to 3/4, depending on what's going on. I have gotten it higher, but always found it harder to sustain. So much easier sometimes to use a bind to combine inpirations into a red if I think I need more damage. Call me lazy and/or crazy, but I rarely modified my actions to get a higher fury bar. Most of the time, the mobs are dead before you'll build any high level of fury - but your experience may be different - depends on the challenge presented by the mobs you choose to fight, I suppose.

The higher hp gives the edge to the brute. So, scrapper damage versus brute damage is left to discuss. There are a lot variables that go into calculating how much damage a given attack does. I've not the time, nor the inclination to cover them all. In short, it's the fury bar of the brute versus the critical hit of the scrapper.

My best advice - use Mids' and create the two characters in question. Slot them the same for an apples to apples comparison. Then you'll have the answer to your question. I took a quick look myself thinking the brute's endurance would be a greater issue -and it might be in practice, but with a set of oblit's in Fire Sword Circle, the base amounts of cast time, end cost, recharge - all that is the same. But the base damage of the scrapper is higher. With the same set of oblit's, the unbuffed damage is also higher. However, when fury presents itself in the brute, it doesn't take long for the brute to catch up and surpass the scrapper. (I could be wrong about this, because building fury within mids' is not something I know how to do. )

So, for HP reasons, I'd go with the brute. You've got Taunt, which is better in my opinion, than confront. My gut says the brute's damage overall, with fury and criticals being accounted for, will be higher.

When the game reopens, roll both. Then you tell us. If the game doesn't reopen, than it really doesn't matter. Still, good questions.

[silvers1]

I used to have a DW/Fire scrapper, who was by far the most squishy scrapper I ever played.  If you want to go fire for defense, I would recommend a brute.

For a scrap, I'd go Fire/Anything else.

[ukaserex]

No question for me. In my experience (limited it is, as there were lots of powersets I didn't play), fire is a pretty weak resistance set compared to say, Invuln or Stone.

But, what it lacks in those resistance numbers, it makes up for in Burn. Ah, burn, how do I miss thee, let me count the ways....oh, I don't need to count them. CoH already did. I miss thee 17 ways, as I cannot burn more than 17 at a time...although..I suppose I could burn one mob, run to another mob and let the DOT do its job while I start with another - but that's a lot of hopping around and I'm not sure it would be all that efficient, or even if the DOT would last long enough to burn more than 17 at a time.

[rebel 1812]

i agree fire isn't the best defensively.  I will have to get toughness and weave on the toon.  But I think the brute will have more impact in a team then a scrapper or a tank will.

[Ankhammon]

Bah! Go for a classic. Fire/Ice tanker. They did a wonderful job from I1 through I23.

[HEATSTROKE]

 Fire is a very challenging defense set. I have a Spines/Fire scrapper.. and if not for the amount of damage he puts out consistently he would be challenged surviving many thing.. I would build a brute.. higher hp cap..

[ukaserex]

i agree fire isn't the best defensively.  I will have to get toughness and weave on the toon.  But I think the brute will have more impact in a team then a scrapper or a tank will.

Yikes! "more impact in a team"?

Sorry. I love fire on just about any AT. Try them all! But, if it's team impact you want, try a fire blaster! With IO's, you can soft-cap for defense and do some serious damage.

[HEATSTROKE]

 I have a Rad/Fire blaster that will make most scrappers cry.. wishing they could put out that kind of damage..

[Ankhammon]

Fire is a very challenging defense set. I have a Spines/Fire scrapper.. and if not for the amount of damage he puts out consistently he would be challenged surviving many thing.. I would build a brute.. higher hp cap..

I had one of those. great character. Who cares if he lives, RotP for the boooom... yes, I slotted it. but not till I was 50.

I'm crazy not stupid. :)

[HEATSTROKE]

 Oh I didnt die very much at all.. In fact he was pretty much a PbAoE toon and he was awesome.. unfortunately i finally started figuring out how to tweak builds the way I wanted to a few months before the shutdown..

[Supermax]

  Do you agree that the best archtype would be a brute?

Yes. Sets with a damage aura are always better on brutes, because the aura is affected by fury, but not affected by criticals or anything tankers have. A damage aura with max fury adds up to a lot of AoE damage over time. As far as the offense, I never liked Fire though. It lacks the secondary effects that increase your survivability, and more importantly, make you feel powerful. For example with SS, you use Foot Stomp, and everyone around you falls down. That gives you time to regen/heal, plus it just looks great. With fire, you use your best attacks, and nothing special happens except red numbers. It's effective, but a bit boring, in my opinion.

[Ankhammon]

Oh I didnt die very much at all.. In fact he was pretty much a PbAoE toon and he was awesome.. unfortunately i finally started figuring out how to tweak builds the way I wanted to a few months before the shutdown..

I never IO'd mine so I had plenty of opportunities to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWtohHwNXoU

[ukaserex]

Yes. Sets with a damage aura are always better on brutes, because the aura is affected by fury, but not affected by criticals or anything tankers have. A damage aura with max fury adds up to a lot of AoE damage over time. As far as the offense, I never liked Fire though. It lacks the secondary effects that increase your survivability, and more importantly, make you feel powerful. For example with SS, you use Foot Stomp, and everyone around you falls down. That gives you time to regen/heal, plus it just looks great. With fire, you use your best attacks, and nothing special happens except red numbers. It's effective, but a bit boring, in my opinion.

I can appreciate this. My first tank was a Fire/Stone tank called Perfidy. Loved Tremor - watching all the freaks fall down, then I'd burn 'em.
However, I just had to put emphasis on the red numbers. Those are the "bestest" graphics of all. But, that's just me.

[Supermax]

Hehe, my main ended up being a Fire/SS tank, but I also inherited a Fire/Fire on a friend's account. I preferred the /SS by so much, it wasn't even close. They were obviously very similar, but the /SS just felt a lot more powerful.

Of course it helped that it was capable of lots of red numbers :)

With FE and double stacked Rage, plus the -20% res provided by Jab, KO Blow hit for 978. With FE and BU and the -res from Scorch, GFS hit for only 634. I realize /Fire also has Incinerate, but this was just something I looked up right now out of curiosity. As a point of reference, a blaster using Total Focus with aim+BU running hits for 708.

That's one of the reasons why I switched my main from a blaster to the Fire/SS  8)

[Ankhammon]

a blaster using Total Focus with aim+BU running hits for 708.

Seriously? I feel much better about not spending much time playing blasters now.

[rebel 1812]

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1287&c=503&a=1006&f=HEX&dc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

is the plan

[Supermax]

Seriously? I feel much better about not spending much time playing blasters now.

Well realistically the blaster would probably have some Defiance as well, increasing it a bit. But yeah, you kind of expect more from the supposed "kings of damage".

But if we get I24, I would definitely suggest trying a blaster, as they will become completely different (much better). With the new snipes and nukes, they really would become the kings of damage, in my opinion.

[Ankhammon]

Well realistically the blaster would probably have some Defiance as well, increasing it a bit. But yeah, you kind of expect more from the supposed "kings of damage".

But if we get I24, I would definitely suggest trying a blaster, as they will become completely different (much better). With the new snipes and nukes, they really would become the kings of damage, in my opinion.

Yeah, they will definitely get more interesting. Dunno if I'd give them damage kings. Maybe ranged burst kings. Would have to see what was actually in play.

Remember that rupters and fenders would get the new snipe/nuke changes. It would be easy for a fender to get to perma-snipe.