New efforts!

[FloatingFatMan]

If this guy is getting $50,000 for making a potato salad, how much do you think could be raised to purchase the rights to City of Heroes?

Do yourself a favour. Read all of IronWolf's posts in this thread.  Then you'll know what's what and why most of your ideas won't or can't happen.

[HEATSTROKE]

What needs to be guarded against at this point is what do the studios/investors want with CoH?

I know this team wants to get the original game back up and running at i24 if possible and to continue on with CoH2. Until these other folks are spoken with - we don't know what their plan is. The most recent one looks like a good fit - but we won't know until they talk!

bingo.. no interest in some company looking to take advantage of a core base of customers.. throw something out.. make that quick cash grab and then dump it in the toilet..

I dont care how many studios come out of the woodwork... We need someone who cares about not just City of Heroes as a property but its fans and its clientele base.. One thing I have learned in twenty years in the industry I am in.. if you take care of your clientele.. you will have customers for LIFE..

[Baaleos]

What needs to be guarded against at this point is what do the studios/investors want with CoH?

I know this team wants to get the original game back up and running at i24 if possible and to continue on with CoH2. Until these other folks are spoken with - we don't know what their plan is. The most recent one looks like a good fit - but we won't know until they talk!

Yeah, it would be a major sting, if after all the efforts to get the deal done and dusted, they actually ripped COH apart and just wanted bits of the engine for their own products.

It would be pretty hard to get them to sign a contract compelling them to run the game at their own cost, unless part of the contract stipulated a minimum term of service.
NCSoft gave up on the game - this probably wouldn't be encouraging to other studios given that we would be asking them to pay for the long term survival/responsibility of a game that a big company such as NCSoft turned their back on.

I guess im just worried that history could repeat itself.

[Baaleos]

Do yourself a favour. Read all of IronWolf's posts in this thread.  Then you'll know what's what and why most of your ideas won't or can't happen.

Is there a filter feature that can pull them all out of 235 posts?

[Ouul]

Is there a filter feature that can pull them all out of 235 posts?

The "Show Posts" button on his profile.

Here's a link: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=20931

[Thunder Glove]

Gee.  I should make some potato salad.  I could pay off my mortgage.

Just don't make coleslaw.  It's not doing as well.

[Benchpresser]

You should have flown straight to Vegas LOL

Well I DID send him straight to the Golden Giza to run a SF.... :)

[HEATSTROKE]

Just don't make coleslaw.  It's not doing as well.

I hate cole slaw..

[OzonePrime]

Just don't make coleslaw.  It's not doing as well.

LOL!

[Baaleos]

Did some googling, there is even crowdfunding to get your student loans paid for.
I guess the internet is turning into a place were you can get free donations from anyone for anything these days.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg148095.html#msg148095

Can I recommend that the timeline be put on the first post in this thread?
Having arrived to the show late it was not immediately clear that it was located on page 220

[MWRuger]

Reveiw and Catch Up Post.

1. CoH servers were already virtualized for load balancing. It is why I believe that if we get our character data back, we will get the servers as was back. It solves a lot of problems and doesn't prohibit a server merge at a later date.

2. User generated content is problematic for a number of reasons. First, it is difficult to adequately test it out against all other content. But mainly it means pushing through the data to everyone who could possibly interact with your character. Your cool new cape to be seen by the playbase would require a push to the entire server at a minimum. In something like Icon this is no problem as every change you could make is only client side. The live game would require access to server side. In general the benefits are outweighed by disadvantages. I can't think of any commercial MMO's that offer this.

3. At this time, the tools used to develop the program at not available per NCSoft. It is possible that they may be found but without them, changes, updates and additional content are not possible. The tools were all custom built. Further, what the team was shown was basically a snapshot of the game at I24. So requests for changes to gameplay and additional content may not be possible.

4. There is no separating the code from the engine. When Cryptic developed the engine and NCSoft acquired the game it was in perpetuity. they go together. It has been heavily modified during the life of the game. You cannot just switch the IP to a new engine. It wasn't designed for that. The code is not completely documented as has been stated numerous times. Even when it was developed by Paragon Studios this was a problem. The SG base system for example was not documented at all and so every time they tried to change anything it broke the system. This made it very time consuming to make changes to it. Now extend that to every other system, without the custom development tools.

If the  buyout is successful, it will likely buy 124 as is, with only minor changes.

5. The in game store was handled by a third party. All that functionality will have to be redone.

6. Account data, which stored the things we bought is likely not available due to legal reasons involving multiple international legal standards.  Sale of that data might be legal in the US but not in the EU. NCSoft will default to the strictest standard possible to avoid complication.

7. Character Data is separate. This may be recoverable. This is not known yet, but this presents several problems in itself. For example, without the account data how do you import a character that has a bought powerset? This is not insurmountable, but it will have to be resolved if the character data is recoverable. Sentinel+ imports are not useful for importing characters into a relaunch. They were designed as a last ditch effort in case of private servers and do not contain all data that would be needed. However, they may be useful for some data if we cannot get character data back. (Think Badges)

8. This is all based on what has been discussed in this thread with weight given to info from people like Codewalker, Guy Perfect and Ironwolf. Any speculation is my own. I am not privy to any special knowledge

[FloatingFatMan]

Is there a filter feature that can pull them all out of 235 posts?

The forum search feature is pretty crappy, but everyone else read the whole thing for their info, why not try it yourself? Start about page 200ish.

[Ironwolf]

I know this thread meanders but as long as it stays civil or somewhat related to CoH - its all good. There is a lot of dead air time as deals at the corporate level are very slow.

I try to fill some of the time in with things like the Time Line - mainly because I was thinking what we did here might help other folks who have lost a game to find a way to get theirs back. Honestly without the first effort and its failure and then knocking off the rumors one-by-one this would never have gotten off the ground.

There is a LOT of interest building now. I added the timeline to the first post.

[Baaleos]

Reveiw and Catch Up Post.

2. User generated content is problematic for a number of reasons. First, it is difficult to adequately test it out against all other content. But mainly it means pushing through the data to everyone who could possibly interact with your character. Your cool new cape to be seen by the playbase would require a push to the entire server at a minimum. In something like Icon this is no problem as every change you could make is only client side. The live game would require access to server side. In general the benefits are outweighed by disadvantages. I can't think of any commercial MMO's that offer this.

3. At this time, the tools used to develop the program at not available per NCSoft. It is possible that they may be found but without them, changes, updates and additional content are not possible. The tools were all custom built. Further, what the team was shown was basically a snapshot of the game at I24. So requests for changes to gameplay and additional content may not be possible.

4. There is no separating the code from the engine. When Cryptic developed the engine and NCSoft acquired the game it was in perpetuity. they go together. It has been heavily modified during the life of the game. You cannot just switch the IP to a new engine. It wasn't designed for that. The code is not completely documented as has been stated numerous times. Even when it was developed by Paragon Studios this was a problem. The SG base system for example was not documented at all and so every time they tried to change anything it broke the system. This made it very time consuming to make changes to it. Now extend that to every other system, without the custom development tools.

Feel free to disagree, but..
2. User Generated Content : City of Heroes did open the door to have custom missions etc through architect. Under this logic, it wouldn't necessarily need to be 'everyone who would potentially' interact with your character. Just everyone who subscribes to your content.
I admit, I am bringing more recent concept from games such as Steam Workshop to a very old game, but the concept I would say is not too far fetched.
And I do concede that the usefulness of this would be limited to just NPC's or content that exists only within the custom missions.
Eg: Power sets used by monsters, models used by monsters etc : but only within the custom mission.

3. As for the tools to develop the software.
    I perform Escrow services as a career, and can immediately spot risk with the idea that 'NCSoft wont for whatever reason provide their tools to maintain the software'
   In many IP Acquisitions, the typical content of an Escrow is
    1. The code/engine itself
    2. Documentation (Details the build and deployment instructions etc)
    3. Supporting tools
    4. 3rd Party tools (if the licenses are transferable)

Typically when we do an Escrow, and find that a company has not provided the tools required to further develop an application, we fail the escrow and advise the client of the failure.
This deal you guys are arranging between the new studio and NCSoft, for all intents and purposes, is an Escrow.

4. When I referenced separating the code and the engine, I was specifically referring to : what happens if they decide to use the engine, but delete all the areas, like Paragon City, Rogue Isles, and then instead create My Little Pony Land or something. Using the engine, for completely different setting...

[The Fifth Horseman]

Just looked in my CoH folder and saw the text file with all the ratings...kinda cool to read.    Is the name on those folders the global handle for that account?  I had three...each had its own folder.   I ask because I'm not sure what my global names were!   Not something I thought about much.

I believe that's the case, yes.

[FloatingFatMan]

The tools are not in escrow, they are -missing-.

As in, copies of them are not stored with the game and have not been located.  We're not even sure yet if there is actually ANY of the source code available. All we know for sure, is that they group buying have been told there's a disk image of I24.  That might be all there is left to buy.

Wouldn't be the first time source code has been lost through incompetence or indifference.

[drmanbot]

I like the word Escrow.

I shall now incorporate that into as many sentences that I can for the rest of the day.

[Ironwolf]

2 ways to look at this - if you don't technically "have" the tools from NCSoft - it can enhance your leverage for a better price/more thrown in.

If you force them to find or make these tools it could end the deal potentially.

NCSoft does not want to spend money fixing a game they closed. Details of working all of this out is the long boring stuff that takes time.

[Baaleos]

The tools are not in escrow, they are -missing-.

As in, copies of them are not stored with the game and have not been located.  We're not even sure yet if there is actually ANY of the source code available. All we know for sure, is that they group buying have been told there's a disk image of I24.  That might be all there is left to buy.

Wouldn't be the first time source code has been lost through incompetence or indifference.

Still, if the studio buying it is aware that the tools are missing, and are happy to proceed - its their choice.
It could cause increased costs in maintainability, and ultimately for us, survivability of the game.

I would say that Studio X - if/when they buy it, will probably try to get an infrastructure up in place to maintain the game as best they can. Not having NCSofts tools, may mean it takes longer for their own tools to be ready/integrated into the COH game.
This could push back launch dates, or even make maintaining / changing the game for bug fixes less feasible.

[Triplash]

Yes, please! I have a few patterns I had tinkered with and like too much to delete... really don't wanna look dorky to those who can't see my edits.

I like those! I always wanted gloves and boots with just a simple stripe pattern. Good stuff!