New efforts!

[MWRuger]

Can I respectfully request that the AE discussion is given its own thread somewhere?

Because you are enjoying the "Clean Slate/I want It All" debate so much? No thanks!

[AlienOne]

Because you are enjoying the Clean Slate/I want It all debate so much? No thanks!

Man, it's an inevitable part of the discussion, like it or not.

Personally, I'd hope that there's a happy medium between the two.

I wouldn't mind leveling up to 50 again (that's easily accomplishable), but if there were some sort of compromise for all those costume/aura unlocks, that would be amazing. I realize getting 1,000+ badges back is probably not doable as well (since a lot of that is account bound accomplishments), but at least some sort of compromise would be nice for those of us who can never reach the heights we attained before.

[Tubbius]

Glad to see folks still talking.  I think I will, as requested, paste/repost what I put last into a thread for AE discussions.  I like where the concepts are going.

[Goddangit]

Update
Things change and honestly it is a day to day revelation as to what is available. Apparently right now the conditions/preconditions are what the talks are about. Once the conditions of development/running/selling and so on are met then game is subject to deal making. I am sure NCSoft doesn't want to sell the game and then have someone flip it for a quick profit and also add complexity to IP rights.

Once the conditions are all accepted on both sides then the good stuff starts happening.

Obviously NCSoft had to show what state the game was in and that it was a feasible deal. The data, I am sure - has not been fully examined but the conditions are all that matter at this stage.

I'd say you have no idea how much it means just to know the deal is still alive... but I am sure you do.  Thank you for the updates!  They keep the spirits up.

[Harpospoke]

If I had to lose everything but someone else didn't, how'd i feel about it?  How would you feel about it if things were suddenly reversed and I got to get all my characters back and suddenly you cannot get yours back for some reason?  It'd suck, big time and you'd be very mad about it.  Honestly it's kind of selfish you'd get to start ahead of everyone else like that.  I didn't use sentinel as I figured, everything done properly we'd have our characters back legitimately.  I don't want anyone losing everything but I'd rather we all had to lose everything or none of us lost everything, not "Oh, this small group, minority,gets to keep everything but everyone else has to start over".  People would take that very, very badly.

Edit: This is coming from someone who had a perma-mind link fortunata(with quite a few purple IOs), double and a half fulcrum shift kin defender and alot of characters fully orange IO'd out.  And that same fortunata also had 2-3 different incarnate powers for each and every incarnate slot.

Another Edit: Put a key view of mine in bold.

I feel like the topic is drifting to some scenario where only a very few people would get their characters back.

Is that what we were even talking about?   And how likely would that be?

The previous conversation was about the majority getting their characters back.  The poster I was replying to was talking about the way the game was at shutdown in a "have and have nots" manner.

The people I've seen wishing for a wipe of everything aren't really talking about addressing a "very few people get their characters back" situation.   They just want everyone to start over "fresh".    Lots of fantasies about people coming together in a big community to run missions in the Hollows together and the market suddenly becoming a place where you can buy everything cheap.

If anything, a "wipe" will produce a bigger "have and have not" situation than we had before.   I was only a "have" due to years of playing.  I don't really understand how to market...I'm terrible at PL'ing.    Those who do understand those things are going run off and leave me in the dust.   I do plan to try and hook up with the right people to show me how to get my old characters back as quick as I can...but something tells me I'll be a few of months into it and only have a couple to play.

[OzonePrime]

Will be glad to have everyone back in Atlas, with a new character or old. Matters not.
Just as long as we are there! :)

[Harpospoke]

But, since you're off in fantasyland anyway

Ok...what is going on?   Why are things like this being thrown at people who are wanting their old characters back?  This starting to smell like an agenda.

, let's assume we can use Sentinel+ data for recreating character data in the new game.  The group, IMO, that should get punished (I find that a poor word choice, but whatever) should be whichever group is smaller.  Which, I suspect, is the group that used Sentinel.

First...let's remember that I did not bring the word "punished" into the discussion.

Ok...I get that logic.   "Needs of the many" and all.

Now...I have to wonder where that thinking was when the Sentinel files were being derided as "too easy to copy".   The number of people who would abuse it is MUCH smaller than the number who would not.   Yet, that smaller number was being used as a reason to not use Sentinel.   So then it was "punish the majority".

So why the complete 180 in thinking?   Again....I smell agenda.

So it seems to me that you are being excessively polarizing and combative about something none of us has control over, hell the team buying the game may not even have any control over it either by all reports.

Where were you when the "I hope we all have to start over" comments were being put out there?   That's not polarizing?

How about when the honest results of 8 years of playing were referred to as "loot"?  That's not polarizing?

What exactly is going on here?

[Cobra Man]

Because you are enjoying the "Clean Slate/I want It All" debate so much? No thanks!

I just want the AE stuff not to get lost in the chatter here.

[AlienOne]

If anything, a "wipe" will produce a bigger "have and have not" situation than we had before.   I was only a "have" due to years of playing.  I don't really understand how to market...I'm terrible at PL'ing.    Those who do understand those things are going run off and leave me in the dust.   I do plan to try and hook up with the right people to show me how to get my old characters back as quick as I can...but something tells me I'll be a few of months into it and only have a couple to play.

This is extremely insightful--and also reflective of real life, whether people want to admit to it or not.

If everyone in the world (digital or real life) was offered a "clean slate," we would all eventually fall (again) into "haves" and "have nots." The simple reason for this is not all of us have the same exact time, situation, internet connection, or even skill set to get us to that "fantasy scenario" that the people may/may not be envisioning. It just won't happen.

[Eskreema]

*Leslie Neilson pops in the cockpit again*

"I just want to say good luck; we're all counting on you."

[Harpospoke]

Harpospoke I've given up on the getting my characters back argument..

At this point, I'm more interested in why those who want their characters back are being derided.

Are those who want I24 getting that treatment?

Or is this a case where if you don't post "I'm still happy we are getting the game back" in every single post then others will assume you mean "I won't play unless I get my characters back"?  Something weird is going on there.

I certainly would not "blame" the team trying to get the game back either...maybe I need to put that statement in every post too.

And it of course should go without saying that "first we have to get the game back".   If that's all we need to think about this thread is going to be pretty boring.    8)

[DragonCommando]

But with CoH II as the main game of the franchise, it's continued development and larger player-base would very likely be enough to keep the legacy game up and running in a static state - they could even include access to the legacy game as perk for subbing to CoH II, for example.

I like this idea very much!

[LaughingAlex]

I feel like the topic is drifting to some scenario where only a very few people would get their characters back.

Is that what we were even talking about?   And how likely would that be?

The previous conversation was about the majority getting their characters back.  The poster I was replying to was talking about the way the game was at shutdown in a "have and have nots" manner.

The people I've seen wishing for a wipe of everything aren't really talking about addressing a "very few people get their characters back" situation.   They just want everyone to start over "fresh".    Lots of fantasies about people coming together in a big community to run missions in the Hollows together and the market suddenly becoming a place where you can buy everything cheap.

If anything, a "wipe" will produce a bigger "have and have not" situation than we had before.   I was only a "have" due to years of playing.  I don't really understand how to market...I'm terrible at PL'ing.    Those who do understand those things are going run off and leave me in the dust.   I do plan to try and hook up with the right people to show me how to get my old characters back as quick as I can...but something tells me I'll be a few of months into it and only have a couple to play.

Some people at the time were talking about sentinel+ and using that to get characters back, thing is a majority didn't know about that or had the means to use it.  What I was talking more about is how fair it would be for some to start ahead like that over others, thing is I question how people would react to that.  I'm talking about that initial fairness.  Understand even though i'm like to be one to have to start over myself, it wouldn't be hard for me to get back to being a "have" in the game economy.  I wouldn't need to be power leveled to do it, all that'd matter is my getting a toon to 50 and solid defenses/offense to play on 8x, i'd be getting recipe drops and merits/alignment merits in little time(and I have a few builds that could do that with just SO's in issue 23/24).

I know that the economy will end up uneven as time goes on.  And some who have more time then others may advance faster or those who have more efficient ways of getting influence will get ahead more and prices and all that will change accordingly.  It's possible for haves to end up have-nots as prices change and the economy reacts to balance changes, to.  Thats not what was really being talked about.  It was more about a small minority getting a huge jump start.  It'd be unfair to the majority regardless of how much time or how efficient they are with the game economy.  And I am really unsure how a majority would react to that but i'm suspect it'd be worst then if everyone had to start over, as it is some already said, myself included they'd rather we get all our toons back or everyone has to start over fresh and they'd prefer things to be just and fair in that regards.

[DragonCommando]

Update
Things change and honestly it is a day to day revelation as to what is available. Apparently right now the conditions/preconditions are what the talks are about. Once the conditions of development/running/selling and so on are met then game is subject to deal making. I am sure NCSoft doesn't want to sell the game and then have someone flip it for a quick profit and also add complexity to IP rights.

Once the conditions are all accepted on both sides then the good stuff starts happening.

Obviously NCSoft had to show what state the game was in and that it was a feasible deal. The data, I am sure - has not been fully examined but the conditions are all that matter at this stage.

Thanks for the update!

[LaughingAlex]

Update
Things change and honestly it is a day to day revelation as to what is available. Apparently right now the conditions/preconditions are what the talks are about. Once the conditions of development/running/selling and so on are met then game is subject to deal making. I am sure NCSoft doesn't want to sell the game and then have someone flip it for a quick profit and also add complexity to IP rights.

Once the conditions are all accepted on both sides then the good stuff starts happening.

Obviously NCSoft had to show what state the game was in and that it was a feasible deal. The data, I am sure - has not been fully examined but the conditions are all that matter at this stage.

Glad to see this.

[Sophronisba]

My concern about the Sentinel+ files is that they would be awfully easy to hack. I looked at the file structure when I stored all of my character info and even then I didn't see how they could ever be used for anything official, because they are so ripe for abuse. My guess is that if the new PTB decided to allow character import from those files it would be a matter of days or even hours before someone posted instructions on how to get an automatic level 50 in CoH.

[Harpospoke]

I'm not seeing how it's "punishment" to not be allowed to use data generated by a third-party tool that a limited number of people took advantage of. 

I'm just going to use myself as an example of why this would be a terrible idea.

I went through my S+ files last night.  I have over 30 inf-capped characters saved in S+ format, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  On my main brute, I stacked his off-builds with as many purples and Hamis as I could pull out of my private base.  If these data were imported into a brand new live game, people like me would utterly control the market and break the economy wide open from the start.

Honesty time:  That's why I did it.  Because I liked being super-rich, since IRL I'm not.  And the idea that City might come back and I might be able to be all "Monopoly Tycoon" with it?  I spent too much time in the Rogue Isles for that not to appeal.

In the end, though, I was always more of an Atlas Park guy than a Mercy Island guy.  I would love to have my characters back, but getting them back shouldn't be contingent on a person having read the right forums and run the right program.  It should be everyone, or it should be no one.

Whether you're aware of it or not, you are actually doing a much better job arguing for a fresh start than most of the folks you're "arguing against."  You've actually kind of pushed me from, "Yeah, I want them back," to, "Maybe that's not such a good idea..."

So we have completely gone from "Let's try to get all the characters back" to "Only Sentinel people get them back" in this conversation?    How did that happen?

At least now no one can use the "We can't use Sentinel because a few people might abuse it" argument.   Clearly a minority is not a factor now.   ;)

[Felderburg]

...with no further development, there'd be no cash shop, so it'd be sub only to access a static  game...

No reason for this to be true. Even if they open all ATs and power sets, people could still buy inspirations, tailor tokens, character renames, etc.

[AlienOne]

What I was talking more about is how fair it would be for some to start ahead like that over others, thing is I question how people would react to that.

This is a great point. However, when we're talking about this, we also have to keep in mind something else: Those of us who were "haves" are most likely the minority in any scenario. Why? Because of the influx of people who may be joining the game--supposing it becomes big news that "City of Heroes Has Returned!" That will most likely be the majority (new players) coming to check out what the game is about.

Now, we've already been discussing in another thread (created by Ironwolf) that there may possibly be some kind of scenario that allows vets (at least in the beginning) to get some sort of unlock of "everything possible" that this new team was able to negotiate for. Now, granted, this may not be the case. However, since we're speculating (isn't this fun), wouldn't that already be creating the same scenario? Wouldn't people who came to the game 2 months late (or heard about it for the first time--maybe the next generation of gamers) start complaining that they were late to the party and "why do those guys get everything?"

See? There will ALWAYS be "haves" and "have nots." You can't appease everyone. So, why not appease the longest-running supporters of the game? You know, the people who have been around supporting the game since 2004? The vets? A clean slate start is the most likely scenario (from what I can gather from Ironwolf), but if there were some sort of appeasement offered to this community (the vets), wouldn't that automatically create a sect of "haves?"

[Harpospoke]

Yeah, see, not so easy for some of us. I wouldn't be physically able to delete my main, someone else would have to do it for me. If She was restored to me, I'd be stuck with it, because I wouldn't be able to actually delete her.

I'm struggling how to word this....

So you want everyone to lose their characters because you can't delete yours?

And people who want their characters back are being called greedy and selfish in this thread!  Unbelievable.   :o