New efforts!

[FloatingFatMan]

I have no problem starting over, thank you. I simply can't bring myself to "end a life" myself, because she meant too much to me to do that myself. Hell, I had trouble doing it on test servers, even though I knew it didn't mean anything. You're about >< this close to stepping over a line that'll seriously upset me. As I said, I could care less about being 50, or the multi-millions of Inf I had, or the massively expensive IOs, they didn't mean anything compared to the experiences and the "life" of my character. You're NOT going to win this argument, try as you might. I've made my position clear. Discussion is over.

-I- fully understand what you mean! It's not just the time spent, it's the significant emotional investment too, and if you're a roleplayer like myself, it's even more so.  Hell, I -haven't- let go and still roleplay my chars on IRC with some friends.

[MWRuger]

I was meaning that something like sorting out available playtester resources seems deeper then I'd imagine going when issues like unavailable account information and missing maintenance tools are floating around the table. The whole offer process seems to have gone remarkably fast from when Ironwolf was first information gathering so I wouldn't be surprised if *some* things are a little glossed over. Programming / hardware / administrative resources I'm sure are on the contract detail list. Testers, what forum software to use, or wether there will be casual Fridays are probably details that might be saved till a little bit later. :)

But I'm not an investor guy so really I'm just guessing here for personal amusement. No idea really.

Oh yeah, I get you now. It probably is just a sketch. usually the prospectus is presented and then (if you are lucky) the investors have specific questions that they want answered. Once they get them decide if and how much to invest.

But you're right detailed plans are probably awaiting closing of the deal. It's good money after bad to do expensive planning and hiring and staffing before the deal closes. It it doesn't then you wasted a bunch of money,

[Codewalker]

As I said, I could care less about being 50, or the multi-millions of Inf I had, or the massively expensive IOs, they didn't mean anything compared to the experiences and the "life" of my character.

Thank you, that's exactly what I've been saying. It has nothing to do with the "stuff". It's much the same reason a Sentinel+ archived character is not quite the same as the original; none of the experiences --  souveniers, contact status, "time on patrol" when talking to a citizen, etc. -- are there.

You're NOT going to win this argument, try as you might.

Winning is not the point.

[MWRuger]

Soooo... you're not ok with "ending a life"...but, you're ok with someone else doing it? That's essentially like "sure, you can take my mother off life support, but I'm not going to be the one flipping the switch." That's certainly your prerogative, but understand that either way, you're responsible--if it's your vote that it happens.

Except we have no vote at all in this.

PS. From personal experience, they don't let you touch those life support machines. It's always staff. You do have to be there though. Trust me, it's no easier whoever does it.

[China Doll]

I can understand where she is coming from too, I played a plant/kin and i always hated having to kill of my Venus fly trap and see him just wilt away

[MWRuger]

Thank you, that's exactly what I've been saying. It has nothing to do with the "stuff". It's much the same reason a Sentinel+ archived character is not quite the same as the original; none of the experiences --  souveniers, contact status, "time on patrol" when talking to a citizen, etc. -- are there.

Winning is not the point.

None of that stuff is there? Shoot! I loved all that stuff. I kept a spreadsheet so I would know when to move toons around for day jobs. I also kept track of who had unlocked what TF's. So even if/when SCoRE pays off we will still have some editing and re-running to do.

[Codewalker]

Except we have no vote at all in this.

Yes, we do have a vote -- that's exactly why I've been advocating. The people who are working on this are reading this thread, and how hard they fight to get certain things back may very well depend on their perception of how the community will react.

I for one believe the community deserves no less than a perfect scenario. If we get less, so be it, but that's no reason to cut corners and not even try.

[kiario]

To me continued development in the City is not necssary at all. I just want to play the game we had a couple of years back. I would be happy to support the game for many years because of its unique atmosphere. I dont need anymore than issue 24.

As there is absolutely nothing on the market that can compete with the atmosphere, meaning music, design and QoL in the City and add to that unpresidented character skills.

Only game that comes close the the atmosphere in the City is Act 1 in Diablo 2 the rogue encampment. The music, setting and ambient effects like rain and bonfire made it very atmospheric.

[AlienOne]

Except we have no vote at all in this.

PS. From personal experience, they don't let you touch those life support machines. It's always staff. You do have to be there though. Trust me, it's no easier whoever does it.

I realize this...it was an illustration to make a point. Point being, whether you do it yourself physically or not, you are still the one responsible for it--so, I don't see why one would make you "feel better" than the other, when the end result is the same.

And, we don't know if we have a vote, really. We most likely don't, yes, but what if that's something they want to ask us? Via, say, a separate poll/question thread created by their PR guy (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,10024.0.html)? Again, pure speculation, but I like speculation. Others may not, but we don't really know a whole lot for sure. So, anything's possible. Data may not be likely, and import of data may not be likely, but until it's specifically stated "you absolutely cannot do that, and that is a rule we just made after we acquired the game," anything's in the cards.

Right now, they've got the poker face, and we're left wondering what hand they'll have if they get the game. That's why this thread is so large, isn't it? Speculation is fun.

[Illusionss]

Simply put.. Its not the fault of the new developers. I think we all acknowledge that. They didnt shut the game down. However I think the new developers have to realize that they are going to take the brunt of the issue if/when the game returns.

.... how about we DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS US? There's always that. These people may get our game back for us, and we're going to vilify them for something they have no control over?! They are losing all their IO'ed out 50s too!! OMG! Our community could never be so crass, right? Right?! I certainly hope not.

[PSI-on]

Yes, we do have a vote -- that's exactly why I've been advocating. The people who are working on this are reading this thread, and how hard they fight to get certain things back may very well depend on their perception of how the community will react.

I for one believe the community deserves no less than a perfect scenario. If we get less, so be it, but that's no reason to cut corners and not even try.

This is the very reason I'm involved in this thread rather than just reading it. My mindset as well.

[China Doll]

Yes, we do have a vote -- that's exactly why I've been advocating. The people who are working on this are reading this thread, and how hard they fight to get certain things back may very well depend on their perception of how the community will react.

I for one believe the community deserves no less than a perfect scenario. If we get less, so be it, but that's no reason to cut corners and not even try.

But where do we get off making what sounds like demands that its "all or nothing" when we have done nothing to get the game back and they have done all the work

[MWRuger]

Yes, we do have a vote -- that's exactly why I've been advocating. The people who are working on this are reading this thread, and how hard they fight to get certain things back may very well depend on their perception of how the community will react.

I for one believe the community deserves no less than a perfect scenario. If we get less, so be it, but that's no reason to cut corners and not even try.

We have opinions, not votes. A vote implies that we are part of the decision. We are not. (well, at least I'm not)

If they don't get the idea of what we would like from all this verbosity then they must be blind. But I'll sum up for them:


We all want the game back.

Almost everyone wants to get back as much as we possibly can.

A few people would prefer a clean slate start.

Sentinel files are not useful for restarted commercial game

We would all (mostly) be willing to pay a fee to make this happen or to play or to get our stuff or to sub.

[AlienOne]

But where do we get off making what sounds like demands that its "all or nothing" when we have done nothing to get the game back and they have done all the work

I've read all 154 pages, and I don't think there's been more than maybe one post stating "it's either all or nothing." We're all adults here, and we all are prepared for the worst.

That doesn't mean we can't still state our opinion.

[Scendera]

I have no problem starting over, thank you. I simply can't bring myself to "end a life" myself, because she meant too much to me to do that myself.

I get you 100%; I'm the same way. I couldn't bring myself to delete mine, but if it's already done and out of my hands, why then I'll be rerolling some to give them a new life. Zero hesitation.

[Shadowe]

Yes, we do have a vote -- that's exactly why I've been advocating. The people who are working on this are reading this thread, and how hard they fight to get certain things back may very well depend on their perception of how the community will react.

I for one believe the community deserves no less than a perfect scenario. If we get less, so be it, but that's no reason to cut corners and not even try.

I want the perfect scenario. I want my toons back, just as I left them. I want the whole kit and kaboodle.

I will settle for less. I will settle for starting from scratch. That is all I actually need: Step 1.

But I want everything. I do not expect everything, but I want it.

[Sermon]

I get you 100%; I'm the same way. I couldn't bring myself to delete mine, but if it's already done and out of my hands, why then I'll be rerolling some to give them a new life. Zero hesitation.

Likewise. Might do a few things different this time around as well!

[MWRuger]

And, we don't know if we have a vote, really. We most likely don't, yes, but what if that's something they want to ask us? Via, say, a separate poll/question thread created by their PR guy (Ironwolf)? Again, pure speculation, but I like speculation. Others may not, but we don't really know a whole lot for sure. So, anything's possible. Data may not be likely, and import of data may not be likely, but until it's specifically stated "you absolutely cannot do that, and that is a rule we just made after we acquired the game," anything's in the cards.

Right now, they've got the poker face, and we're left wondering what hand they'll have if they get the game. That's why this thread is so large, isn't it? Speculation is fun.

As soon as you can link to such a poll, then we will have a vote. Until then it is just our opinions not only about what is possible but what is doable and desirable.

[AlienOne]

As soon as you can link to such a poll, then we will have a vote. Until then it is just our opinions not only about what is possible but what is doable and desirable.

I actually edited that post to include the link to said thread just as you were posting this.

[Codewalker]

We have opinions, not votes. A vote implies that we are part of the decision. We are not. (well, at least I'm not)

We are the people who would be justifying the investment by putting money toward a relaunched game and potential sequel. We are critically important to the deal happening.

Let me break it down this way, based on what the prevailing opinion could be.

"I'd like character data, but if we can't get it, meh, no big deal." = "NCSoft is being a pain about the database, we won't press them about it and maybe we can save some $$$"

"I could survive without it, but would strongly prefer to have my characters back." = "Maybe we should play a few bargaining chips to convince them to go digging, it could pay off for us in terms of drastically increased customer satisfaction."

"I don't think I would bother if it was a clean slate." = "Okay, let's play hardball."

Now I can't say for certain it would play out exactly like that, but if I can easily see how someone trying to wrangle a large deal would be motivated to accept losses they thought could be mitigated if it meant saving a few bucks.

As soon as you can link to such a poll, then we will have a vote. Until then it is just our opinions not only about what is possible but what is doable and desirable.

Hmm, like perhaps a dedicated thread started by the acknowledged PR liaison asking "What do you all think?"