New efforts!

[dwturducken]

I'm simply being realistic.

What exactly have we done other than reminisce about or game and share treasured memories?

These aren't  bad by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think it qualifies as a lot - unless you're talking about the Kickstarter for City of Titans?

I remain sceptical because there is a bare minimum of information being generated and some of what has been said flies in the face of information that we were told previously - by people on this forum.

That information was that NCsoft were not prepared to sell the IP for CoH - even after lengthy negotiations with interested parties.

I'm not disinterested or negative here and I'd be delighted if I was wrong. I want the game back as much as the next person here.

I'm just not seeing what has changed from NCsoft's perspective?

And, to respond to your asking what I meant, we have actually done a lot, though not every effort has been successful, like any of the letter-writing campaigns. Yes, the CoT Kickstarter was a big, public win, on many levels, but look all the way back to the announcement.

We gathered here, which is actually kind of a bigger deal that such a simple statement would suggest. A lot of people have come and gone, and there are a lot of lurkers. I've done all three.  The members with the orange dots (or Codewalker...) could likely give more information, there, though it would still be anonymous data. This thread alone has had over 6000 views, though that doesn't say how many are repeat visitors. Some threads are well over 100,000, but, again, the numbers could be meaningless.

In the three months that we had after the announcement, we stirred up press interest. We also saved a lot! We made videos, we saved as much raw data as we could, we saved zones as much as we could, and we started digging up and sometimes passing "hard" copies of the game, versions that had been sold on physical disks that could be reinstalled on machines.

Yes, we had campaigns. None have borne fruit, but, god, did we rally. We did little things, like sending the devs to dinner, and we did big things, like the Kickstarter. Some of us have supported Valiance, in their own way. We've come together to send cards to family of members, here, when they were sick (or losing their battles). We've helped out members directly when things were tough. Not all of us could give to all of the efforts. I know that I found myself in thin times, financially, during the whole of the Kickstarter, which still irritates me, but we have, all of us, done what we could, when we could.

Ironwolf saw an opportunity to do something, and he started with something so simple that the rest of us either didn't think of it, or we thought, "No! Surely someone has tried that!" Maybe nothing comes of it, but it's at least another attempt, another sign to NCSoft, and perhaps the larger gaming "world," that WE'RE STILL HERE!

You may not agree with me. You may think that Ironwolf is stringing us along. You may think he's kooky, that we all are for pinning any hope at all on what he says. But you're still here.

And we're all here with you.

That goes for you, too, Ironwolf. For better or worse, crazy or crafty, full of it or -- You get the idea.

/em holdtorch

[healix]

https://i.imgur.com/8PR5WrO.jpg

The eternal flames......

[Cobra Man]

Quite. Ironwolf already covered this in several posts earlier in the thread. There were negotiations going on where both parties were looking to find a mutually beneficial arrangement (one way or another NCsoft stood to gain more if the game continued than if it was shut down) when a point of disagreement came up that neither party was willing to compromise on; apparently due to a personal issue of one of the people involved. At that point the whole process broke down.
Seriously, i can understand being skeptical about the latest effort after the previous ones fell through, but when that skepticism is apparently based on not bothering to read the thread you're posting in it seems more like you're just being contrary and negative for the hell of it.

The part in your post that I've highlighted is the focal point here.

At no point has this information came to light before now. It would seem to be plucked out of thin air.

NCsoft did put out a few comments on what went on and it was this;

" The studio was unprofitable before the shutdown. Both NCSOFT and Paragon Studios were incredibly proud of the transition of City of Heroes to a Free to Play business model, but unfortunately it wasn't enough to support the studio's needs. We made the difficult decision to close Paragon Studios and sunset City of Heroes because the franchise no longer aligned with the long term profitability goals for the company."

and

"While we looked to sell the franchise multiple times, we were unsuccessful in finding a suitable partner that we thought would support City of Heroes' fans in a manner they were accustomed to for years to come. Closing a studio and sun setting a beloved franchise is never an easy thing to do for the publisher, the developer or the fans. This was not an easy decision to make."

At the time I thought this was pretty straightforward.

I read threads all the way through and I'm far from being contrary at any point.

The above quotes were from NCsoft's Director of Corporate Communications, Lincoln Davis.

Again ... what has changed from NCsoft's perspective?


At this point I've had enough. The loss of the game tales its toll on all of us.

If Ironwolf is correct then I'll be overjoyed.

I'll leave it at that.

[MaxEternal]

It sounds like he is saying the Suitable Partner part has changed.  Hope he is right.

[Ironwolf]

I know we have another group- trying and once they are able to speak to NCSoft we may know more about what we can do - time has passed - people may have left to other jobs and we don't know with the merge of Nexon what the landscape is.

Seriously if NCSoft insisted on being a partial partner - how many folks would say yes? I don't know the sticking point and it may be moot - I know there were things that caused it to fail and it was not good. People who are professional were involved and they aren't saying much and that is how they should behave. I know a bit more but I am not going to talk about it more because it doesn't help and may distract.

I learned a long time ago when fighting someone anything that doesn't help you, hurts you. Only do positive things and fight with the tools that give you the best chance to win. I was given some information and then several sources chipped in - then I spoke as you saw to Mr. Chung and we got to find out we have a lot more friends than we know.

I don't want to get any credit  - I just had some ideas that I bounced off you folks. The ideas morphed into something that became a possibility. Then I shared information here that has helped put the pieces together. Some of the rumors came out that were squashed - the price of $80 million was way too high. The price was closer to $6-8 million from what I was given - but again that doesn't matter now - it is the past and an effort that was with a game that was up and running. Now the game is gone and many people moved on and that was one of the things, I didn't put in here as it again becomes a distraction.

We have people with the skills to run the game making the overtures to NCSoft - if I had tried to go forward it would take a while to put the people in place. Those people are there now in this effort. I don't know the pace they are working at but you have to understand they must go in with a business plan. You don't just call them up and say - hey, that game that you closed - how much for it? I do know the people involved are VERY eager to move forward. I make updates as I can because I do know what it means to you all and I know how people handle things differently.

I absolutely have no problem with Cobraman questioning things.

Some pray, some hope and some doubt. It is human nature and I really am not trying to tell you it is a done deal. I am saying what was once dead - the HMTF is alive again and another effort is being made. Is it good? Is it bad? It is an effort - some of my favorite sayings from David Gemmel:


"A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity."

"Miracles are merely events that happen just when they are needed."

"Heroes are people who face down their fears. It is that simple. A child afraid of the dark who one day blows out the candle; a women terrified of the pain of childbirth who says, 'It is time to become a mother'. Heroism does not always live on the battlefield."

[Kaos Arcanna]

Ironwolf hasn't asked for money, and he's not made any promises to us.

At best, he's said that people are talking to NcSoft.

Something may come of it. Nothing may come of it.

Nostalgia being a thing, I am sure that at least some of us will live long enough to see City of Heroes come back in some form or the other.

I do think that City's closing did have an impact on at least the way SOME games have been closed since then, and that's not a bad legacy for any game.

One way or another, we WILL fly again. Perhaps not in the Paragon we knew and loved, but somewhere...

[Tubbius]

Here's hoping, folks!  :)  Ironwolf, best to you, your contacts, and your efforts.

[Angel Phoenix77]

I got hard copies of both preorders for city of heroes and villains, along with the ae version and going rouge :) I got them off of amazon.
as for Ironwolf whatever happens I wish you luck.

[Alpha Series]

Hope springs eternal! Best news and direction we've seen in many moons! I'm very optimistic and I urge everyone to be uptone and optimistic as well, whether you are cautious or just plain out loud jumping up and down enthusiastic! Best wishes to all concerned and I say Warp Speed to the players, movers and shakers!

[MWRuger]

Were all adults (mostly anyway) and we know the odds are long and the fight a tough one.

It may seem a lost cause to some, but really, lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for.

Edited: (added a comma to clarify meaning)

[Ohioknight]

... but really lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for.

No they aren't... why would you even SAY that?

[silvers1]

If somehow this 2nd effort succeeds, I'm curious if we'll get the game in just maintenance mode.

I can pretty much guarantee you wont get the entire userbase back.  And if the game is just sitting there static, it will gradually die
another slow painful death.  Logging into a ghost-town server would be worse IMO than just leaving things alone.

I sincerely hope whoever resurrects the game has a plan to form a new studio and put the game back into active development status w/ new releases.

[HEATSTROKE]

id be more than happy with a Maintenance Mode of the last issue.. I wouldnt even care if there was more development or not because there was so much that I didnt get to do in the first place.. so many builds I never got to try.. so many tweaks to builds I already had..

And the best thing about the game was the people I teamed with..

[Ironwolf]

If this goes through it will be more than maintenance mode.

I know it is hard to wait and I keep wildly checking my messages and email waiting for word, too! One of the conversations that is not without some trepidation is - what if NCSoft wants to keep a hand in?

I know all parties involved are more than a little worried about that. We won't know until after but the worry is there. I know we all want the game in the hands of those who love it, but if they wanted a minor interest to give it back...........damn what a tough decision. I am glad it wouldn't have to be mine.

[HEATSTROKE]

at this point I wouldn't even care if they had a hand in it.. but I would want some kind of assurance that the community would not get shafted again..

[MWRuger]

No they aren't... why would you even SAY that?

Well, I left a comma out of that line that kinda changes the meaning. But to explain, when you are winning, you don't really need the help. It's only when it's a struggle that you need aid. BUT, it would probably be more accurate to say "seemingly lost causes". But that kinda kills the flow.

Bear in mind, people were convinced that persuading the British to leave India, The Civil Rights Movement, the War for Independence,  peace in Northern Ireland, ending apartheid were all lost causes. But they were worth fighting for. While restoring COH ranks far lower on the scale of human misery, it is still worth fight for, even it is a seemingly lost cause.

[Styrj]

Having the City back in maintenance mode would be fine by me.  I've put in over 8 years playing CoHV and still haven't touched nearly all the content to be played. 

I'd be more than happy with a Maintenance Mode of the last issue. I wouldn't even care if there was more development or not because there was so much that I didn't get to do in the first place.. so many builds I never got to try.. so many tweaks to builds I already had..

This is so true! I could get lost in the game again.  If this "New Effort" comes to fruition, I would be one of the first in line for a sub (any kind of sub!). ;D

[Omega Mark V]

Bear in mind, people were convinced that persuading the British to leave India, The Civil Rights Movement, the War for Independence,  peace in Northern Ireland, ending apartheid were all lost causes. But they were worth fighting for. While restoring COH ranks far lower on the scale of human misery, it is still worth fight for, even it is a seemingly lost cause.

Restoration of something you care for is always worth the struggle. I still have confidence that our own movement for City of will succeed in some way; and it technically already has with the creation of new super hero themed games with CoH's spirit.

We've had the patience and diligence to wait this long, and I'm sure a while longer will not be hard to cope with. The end goal justifies the meantime struggle.

[Triage IV]

Is "maintenance mode" basically like a, "This has issues and glitches, but give it a try anyway" thing?

AND, I wouldn't care if it's a ghost town (which I would highly doubt, with all the players chomping at the bit for its return...although with how quiet things were in the end, I could see how that might be a possibility), I would still play.

Might it be a possibility, if...I mean WHEN...it comes back, there would only be one server...or would it still have the original servers in place?

Having one server, might just boost the population...or, maybe, cut the number of servers down to half or a quarter...??

[Thunder Glove]

"Maintenance Mode" basically means that the game is still running but development has stopped.  It's just being maintained wherever it was last at.  For City of Heroes, that means either Issue 23 or the (somewhat unfinished and possibly still buggy) Issue 24.

I would still play if it were quieter.  I was usually a solo player anyway.  I teamed a lot during the final three months, and enjoyed it, but most of the game I played solo.