OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.

[Aggelakis]

... and/or a printed copy in the box when you bought it (did it come with one? I honestly don't remember).

Nope! All my boxes have a (couple) disc(s), a quick-help keyboard guide, a mini introduction guide thingy, a couple friend-codes for both City and NCsoft's "other titles", and the NCsoft "other titles" spam leaflet.

[JadeFalcon]

You can still view the EULA in the client by launching a cityofheroes.exe shortcut with -project coh in the target line and using any username/password. Don't bother selecting the unnamed server though. It just dumps you back to the login screen after a minute or so with a can't connect to DB popup.

Discovered this by accident when trying to bypass the launcher after they announced the game was closing. Didn't know the extra arguments were listed in addcache.xml at the time so I used Process Explorer. :D

[JaguarX]

In any event, it doesn't much matter. If it went to court it would boil down to the same old argument of "Can a software license legally place restrictions on the usage of software, or only the distribution?" Results will vary depending on jurisdiction.

basically.

Assuming prep work and a half way decent case is made before getting to court.

[alphajaybo]

You can still view the EULA in the client by launching a cityofheroes.exe shortcut with -project coh in the target line and using any username/password. Don't bother selecting the unnamed server though. It just dumps you back to the login screen after a minute or so with a can't connect to DB popup.

Discovered this by accident when trying to bypass the launcher after they announced the game was closing. Didn't know the extra arguments were listed in addcache.xml at the time so I used Process Explorer. :D

Wait so is seeings though a server comes up does that mean that some server files are located client side, Or is it simply a default preset?

[Aggelakis]

No, -project coh tells the client to skip all the "hooking up to server" part until you get to the main screen. Then it tries to "hook up" with the server and barfs.

[Codewalker]

Ah yes, I forgot about fakeauth...

Wait so is seeings though a server comes up does that mean that some server files are located client side, Or is it simply a default preset?

What you're seeing is a development and testing shortcut called "fakeauth" mode.  It's something I ran into when dissecting the client but ultimately didn't find any use for.

When launching the game you would specify -auth [ip] to tell the game which auth server to connect to. The NCSoft launcher took care of that. Really old versions used a registry entry instead of a command line parameter to locate the auth server.

Normally you connect to the auth server and log in, then it hands you a list of dbservers to choose from. Upon picking one you connect to that dbserver and get a list of characters.

Fakeauth mode is what happens when you leave out -auth. In that case you'd give it -db [ip], and the game will fake a login screen, then connect to a dbserver directly without really authenticating you. Obviously that would only work for a development server that is set up to allow unauthenticated connections. The client gives you a fake server list with only the IP address you specified in -db listed.

Now if you don't specify either -auth OR -db, the game thinks that it's in a fakeauth mode (because there's no auth server). But since you also left out -db, you get whatever the static default for the dbserver is, which in this case is "DEFAULT", with an IP address of 0.0.0.0.

[Takinalis]

I play tabletop games. With gridmaps, miniatures etc.

I put a flatscreen behind my laptop and mirror my screen.

I'm using the coh client to replace all of my miniatures and whatnot for Savage Worlds Super Powered campaigns.

These are things I'm doing personally in my own home for me, my friends and my kids. I don't think it's NCSofts business. I bought the client, I'm using the darned thing.

[alphajaybo]

Ah yes, I forgot about fakeauth...

What you're seeing is a development and testing shortcut called "fakeauth" mode.  It's something I ran into when dissecting the client but ultimately didn't find any use for.

When launching the game you would specify -auth [ip] to tell the game which auth server to connect to. The NCSoft launcher took care of that. Really old versions used a registry entry instead of a command line parameter to locate the auth server.

Normally you connect to the auth server and log in, then it hands you a list of dbservers to choose from. Upon picking one you connect to that dbserver and get a list of characters.

Fakeauth mode is what happens when you leave out -auth. In that case you'd give it -db [ip], and the game will fake a login screen, then connect to a dbserver directly without really authenticating you. Obviously that would only work for a development server that is set up to allow unauthenticated connections. The client gives you a fake server list with only the IP address you specified in -db listed.

Now if you don't specify either -auth OR -db, the game thinks that it's in a fakeauth mode (because there's no auth server). But since you also left out -db, you get whatever the static default for the dbserver is, which in this case is "DEFAULT", with an IP address of 0.0.0.0.

So its really no use at all, its just a cleverly hidden preset for development servers? Hahaha wish i could play this game so much, getting to the login and seeing the server list made me feel kinda happy yet angry and for some reason Jealous at the fact there is a fake server taunting you :P

[jcol88]

Hi all. I got about 30 pages in, but then the topic got off topic from Segs and Nem. Are the links on the first 5 pages still the latest for downloading?

[Azrael]

*wonders how the efforts for a 'private server' are coming along...

A long rocky road, I guess... ;)

Azrael.

[sindyr]

So, still no?

[Kaos Arcanna]

So, still no?

It'd be surprised if a private server shows up within the next year.

[Arcana]

I would think it could be quite risky to try to get a court to tell people not to use the software you gave them... the court might reasonably, actually consider the question of "why" -- as in "who is harmed"?

In the court of public opinion perhaps, it would be a public relations problem.  But in a court of law, that question is entirely meaningless when it comes to intellectual property.  "But it doesn't hurt them" is not an affirmative defense in intellectual property cases.

Its also important to note the distinction between a court enforcing a EULA, and ruling whether its valid.  This is very critical if subtle distinction.  A court could rule the EULA valid, in which case it could enforce its terms upon any recipient of the software.  Conversely, it could rule the EULA invalid and still order the return or destruction of the software.  The reason is this.  If the court rules the EULA is either not valid or unenforceable, there would then be the separate question of whether there now exists any right for the user to possess the software.  Dissolving the EULA doesn't mean you can hop and skip away and do whatever you want.  It can mean the court rules that NCSoft can't enforce its terms on you, but also that without it there is no longer a legal right to the software, and you'd have to destroy it.  You don't get to just have it just because to took it.  The court could rule that without a valid contract both parties must walk away surrendering any temporary rights they were granted because of the contract that is now dissolved.

I don't think most people who believe they can challenge EULAs fully appreciate that legal point.  The EULA is the reason you're allowed to have the software in the first place.  Destroying it legally doesn't mean you get to keep the software automatically.  If you invalidate the contract upon which you took out the mortgage for your house, guess what?  You don't get to keep the money and the house.  You get to become homeless when the contract dissolves and the money you got only due to that contract must be returned.

The reason we get to keep the CoH client and play with it isn't because the EULA is unenforceable or because of any legal argument: its because its entirely not worth NCSoft's time to try to get back every single copy of it, and because nothing would be worth the bad press if they tried.  But I guarantee you if there was a self-destruct button that was capable of destroying every copy of the client and they pushed it, none of us would have any legal right to challenge that.

[Cinnder]

Huh, that's really interesting, Arcana.  I always thought that my initial outlay of cash got me ownership of the client software and my sub fees rented access to the server services -- under which notion I expected the EULA to cover only the latter.  This in turn led me to conclude that what remains on our PCs at this point is ours, bought and paid for.  Is this demonstrably not the case?

[LadyVamp]

Huh, that's really interesting, Arcana.  I always thought that my initial outlay of cash got me ownership of the client software and my sub fees rented access to the server services -- under which notion I expected the EULA to cover only the latter.  This in turn led me to conclude that what remains on our PCs at this point is ours, bought and paid for.  Is this demonstrably not the case?

That's pretty much how most software works.  You buy a license to run the software.  Not the software itself.  Many server based apps actually make you buy a new license annually.  Oracle's database server is done that way.  And, the specs of your machine are factored into the cost so a 4 cpu machine cost more than a dual or single cpu for example.

One of the largest insurance companies a friend worked for uses high end mainframes.  Normally, they use just 2 cpus but during certain times of the year, they have to turn on additional cpus.  They call up their rep, order a license for how many cpus they need.  They specify the duration in hours they need it.  They give the rep the PO number and the rep gives them a code to enter into the mainframe's admin console.  And their system turns into a 4, 6, 8 or whatever they bought for however many hours they bought.  And when it's done, it's done.  automatic shutoff of the code when it expires.  cpus rented?  turned off by the OS automatically.

Believe it or not but it actually saves them money doing that.

Must eulas state in a nutshell:  For your fee, we provide you with a license code allowing you to run 1 copy on 1 computer.  If either you or we decide you can no longer run our software, you are expected to remove it from your machine.  Just be thankful that ncsoft didn't setup a server for us to log into that instructs the client to uninstall itself.  It's doable to write that app.

[Cinnder]

Wait, does that mean that -- if they wanted to -- Eidos could decide I'm not allowed to re-play any of the old Tomb Raider games I bought?  Could Atari legally make me destroy my old Tank and Adventure cartridges for the 2600?

[Arcana]

Wait, does that mean that -- if they wanted to -- Eidos could decide I'm not allowed to re-play any of the old Tomb Raider games I bought?  Could Atari legally make me destroy my old Tank and Adventure cartridges for the 2600?

Basically yes.  Although technically you could refuse to destroy the physical media as you own that, but they could then force you to destroy the software contained within them by whatever means you want to comply with the order.

The law when it comes to software is not logical in many areas, and I don't expect to see it rationalized in my lifetime.  For example, one legal doctrine says since any content that has copyright protection allows the copyright owner to control when copies are made, then technically speaking the copyright owner of any software you bought could legally prevent you from running it, because running it requires copying the software from the media to your computer's RAM.  Its ludicrous on its face, but on the other hand its surprisingly tricky to write a law that isn't vague that legally allows that to happen that doesn't create loopholes large enough to allow unlimited copying of software under the right technological conditions.  You'd be surprised.

[Azrael]

There are a few subjects that make me bristle.  But 'over reach' on copyright, particularly by large corporations (surprise) is one of them.  Or the Digital Millennium copyright act. 

eg.  Microsoft and Google in the news for reading emails (and or scanning them in the latter's case for ad' placing...)  And the same EULA on emails is there for 'Apple fans' (like myself?) that states that companies and ISPs can read your email.  Without a warrant or court order?  Unapologetically, the contents of that 'letter' are mine.

Or how about the Disney/Marvel case vs the Kirby family on legacy copyright.  It's ok...we'll just let the big companies have copyright in perpetuity.  No surprise Disney won out on that one. :P  Or that the Avengers effectively work for the Government and the CIA *cough, sorry, 'Shield...'  Kind of tells you where we are in the Western Nato, sorry, 'democracies' block, *cough hemisphere.

Or what about Facebook and 'Paper?'

Or Bruce Willis wanting to pass on his iTunes music to his daughter in his will or something.  (Nobody telling me I can't give my darn Vinyl collection to a Yorkshire Terrior if I so please...  *waves at Apple.)

Game 'licences.'

In my C64 days I don't recall them in the software.  Maybe they were on the inlay card.  I guess we knew making tape copies for our friends was naughty.  But most of the software worth buying?  e.g. Impossible Mission and Boulderdash?  I bought.  Had loads of games for it.  £8-10 a pop back then.

Cookies.  I turn them off.  I don't want Apple, Google(!) or MS (!!) spying on me or the NSA.  My phone calls and emails are none of their damn business.

Renting software.  Encroachment by the likes of Adobe 'Creative Cloud' (See ya Photoshop.  Overpriced and using Pixelmator and Manga Studio thank you.)  And MS with their bloated Word suite.  No ty.  Apple gives me the basics and more of what I need there.  I don't need Office macros.  And, of course, you have 3D software that requires an 'always' on net link which irks my ire.

Pick and mix.  If Apple over reach with software strategy I'll delete it and put the iMac through the attic window and see how it copes.

CoH.

1st software that I ever 'rented.'  I did it for ten years or it seemed that long.  And for the best part of it I kept my subs up even when I wasn't playing at times.  So I supported NC Soft through the good the bad and the ugly times.  Obviously the EULA is what it is.  And how many of the 100k to 350k CoH-ers read that EULA?  It's reasonable to expect that a company may go out of business at some point or the game may or may not be financially viable enough as people get bored or as fickle fashion dictates on MMOs...but...  Most people buying software think they 'own' it.

After spending a £1000 or there a bouts...I considered the game box 'mine.'  I bought a software product to use and NC Soft gladly took my money.  The problem with MMOs is no stand alone game.  And I hope the spiritual successors consider an 'off line' mode.  e.g.. Like Unreal Tournament had offline, LAN and online modes.  So I can still play Unreal Tourney today if I so wish.  And if NC Soft ever come to my house expecting me to destroy my box or hand it back I'll expect a refund or I may choose not to let them in my house and the P.R backlash from thousands of similar users could get real ugly real fast.

I think there is a moral case for MMOs to offer an offline mode i.e. the networking part no longer works because a server is no longer there.  But you have a server part on your computer that allows you to play offline.  I'd be far less upset over CoH's closure if I could still street sweep, play the mission content and be the only hero in town.  I could, in reality, live without teaming.  I'd have 'something' for the box money I paid.  (and I bought the box 3 times and bought the Rogue expansion pack...)  I feel I should still be able to play the game in that capacity.  I don't care what the EULA says.  I don't care what anyone else says.

And I'll press the case for the spiritual successors to consider this.  The same with any Coh rising from the ashes (nothing is impossible...)

What can people do?

Shout.  Be difficult.  Be embarrassing.  Make life difficult for companies.  Hand THEM contracts. :P  Choose how you spend your money.

Stop using software.  Demand EULA's in F.A.Q style plain english campaign please.  And demand terms that allow you to 'own'  the use a game/software while your OS and machine still work...and while you have air in your lungs.

Hard to believe what we actually did before computers?  Dunno.  Get better sleep?  Read books.  Go fishing.  Draw.  Kick a ball.  Take in some fresh air...bake rock cakes...etc.

Technically all software is renting in a manner of speaking.  You don't own the code.  Just the right to use it.  But if a company can ask you to stop using it are they going to refund you?  I buy a chair.  I keep it.  I can sell it.  I can swap it...I can trade it.  I can sit my posterior on it...and no, the company that sold me that chair can't ask me for it back or stop me using it or make me sign a EULA.  Come to think of it...I can chop it up for firewood if the chair is beyond use or I'm bored of it.  Consumer choice.

Maybe the customer should author a new agreement.  It's called your wallet.  And maybe after game companies and large corporations e.g. Apple etc are down to their last million they'll lose some of their arrogant hubris.  The power of corporations is not inevitable.

Just because it is so doesn't make it right.  Especially when it comes to large corporations pulling on the strings of the politicians.

'We the people' and all that...

Azrael.

[Cinnder]

...technically speaking the copyright owner of any software you bought could legally prevent you from running it, because running it requires copying the software from the media to your computer's RAM...

Ha ha, brilliant.  Sounds like a case of taking words meant to apply to printed medium (where it makes perfect sense) and applying them to a new medium without understanding the technology.

[Eoraptor]

as far as the atari console and cartridges? no. those are analogue technology and not protected by the DCMA. You literally, physically, bought a copy of the hardware and software when purchasing the carts which used solid state transistor tech to encode their data, therefore you own that copy in perpetuity and can do what you like with it until such day as it dies or you do.

as to the rest. kill all the lawyers.