NCSoft Stockwatch

[Segev]

Meh. He seems to be doing just fine, especially considering the age of those supposed scandals (which, having listened to him through them, I know the full context of...including the gross mischaracterization of several that were taken ludicrously - and I mean "quote him paraphrasing somebody else and attribute it to him" levels of ludicrous for at least 2 of them), so I find it rather a shrug-worthy article.

If he were really irrelevant, he wouldn't be in the news so constantly.

And, since we failed our "let it lie" roll, I'll go ahead and respond to the "abortion" criticism: I don't recall ever hearing him say that, and I do listen pretty regularly. Moreover, if you actually look at how abortions ARE carried out, they're almost as violent, and certain methods still practiced today have nearly as hazardous an effect on the woman.



But seriously, it's kind-of silly to try to argue whether Rush is a good show or not. He IS doing better than most. And his method to change the standard model of advertising...worked. The model he uses now is the one he pioneered then, and is mimicked by most personality-based shows. It is, in effect, a broadcast-media version of celebrity endorsement.

However, it should work for just about any medium that needs to track performance of its specific impact on its audience's buying decisions.

[eabrace]

And his method to change the standard model of advertising...worked. The model he uses now is the one he pioneered then, and is mimicked by most personality-based shows. It is, in effect, a broadcast-media version of celebrity endorsement.

However, it should work for just about any medium that needs to track performance of its specific impact on its audience's buying decisions.

I certainly can't argue with any of that.  I've seen others successfully apply that model over the years too.

[FatherXmas]

He may still be doing better than most syndicated radio shows, but he's heading downhill pretty fast these days.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/opinion/obeidallah-rush-limbaugh/index.html

You are using an opinion piece by a political comic as proof.

One thing Rush isn't is soundbite-able.  Rush is a satirist and sometimes his satire falls flat or goes off the rails.  It's like listening to a complex joke and then on occasion he messes up the punch line.

In advertising, at the end of the day, you go to where the people are.  I would imagine smaller companies will start jumping in to fill those ad slots.  Also if Cumulus doesn't re-up his contract, which ends later this year, undoubtedly another radio media giant will step up to sign him up.  He is still #1 in talk radio.  And that's a good thing IMO because #2 is Michael Savage and #3 is Glenn Beck; both who are much worse in my opinion.

[Lightslinger]

"Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud."
~Rush Limbaugh, 1994 List of 35 Undeniable Truths

"If you feed them, if you feed the children, three square meals a day during the school year, how can you expect them to feed themselves in the summer? Wanton little waifs and serfs dependent on the State. Pure and simple."
~Rush Limbaugh, The Rush Limbaugh Show, December 2011

"Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society."
~Rush Limbaugh, The Rush Limbaugh Show, August 12, 2005

"Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is also a White House dog?"
~Rush Limbaugh, while holding up a photograph of 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton on his 1993 television show

"Let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work."
~Rush Limbaugh, radio show, Fall 1993

"There are more American Indians alive today than there were when Columbus arrived or at any other time in history. Does this sound like a record of genocide?"
~Rush Limbaugh, See, I Told You So, p.68, November 1993

"Look it, let me put it to you this way. The NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."
~Rush Limbaugh January 19, 2007

"You just gotta be who you are, and I think it's time to get rid of this whole National Basketball Association. Call it the TBA, the Thug Basketball Association, and stop calling them teams. Call 'em gangs."
~Rush Limbaugh, December 8, 2004

"Holocaust? Ninety million Indians? Only four million left? They all have casinos — what's to complain about?"
~Rush Limbaugh September 25, 2009.

"When a gay person turns his back on you, it is anything but an insult; it's an invitation."
~Rush Limbaugh, Summer 1994

Ok, lets not let it lie. That's just a few gems from what that filth spreads everyday. Are we seriously advocating that Rush Limbaugh is satire along the same lines as The Colbert Report? No, he is absolutely not satire. He says horrible things for monetary gain. His audience believes the things he says and he keeps repeating the same, horrible things because it makes him money.

[FatherXmas]

I've said his satire isn't soundbite-able yet you proceed to provide a list of soundbites.  Yes most of those examples are cringe worthy.  However there is truth in a lot of those.

Often what Rush does is to take an arguments that liberals and the left have use to degrade conservatives and the right and turn it back around at one of their Holy Grails thus highlighting how shocking and outrageous the original liberal comment was.  Yet the original comment gets a pass.

But we are derailing here, badly.  The original sub-topic was whether "if you build it (ad platform in game), would they come (advertisers)" and how a free sample might have driven interest.  As others pointed out, mentioning by name on radio is very different than using TM logos and artwork so that wouldn't likely to have worked out.

[Lightslinger]

Please, do enlighten me about the truth in those quotes.

[Segev]

"Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud."
~Rush Limbaugh, 1994 List of 35 Undeniable Truths

Have you read the "35 undeniable truths?" The whole thing is a satirical list. Like most satire, like most humor, there is some element of truth in it, but its purpose and wording is to get people's goat, and you've walked right into it.

"If you feed them, if you feed the children, three square meals a day during the school year, how can you expect them to feed themselves in the summer? Wanton little waifs and serfs dependent on the State. Pure and simple."
~Rush Limbaugh, The Rush Limbaugh Show, December 2011

...and? If these children's parents can't feed them during the school year, how do you expect them to feed their kids over the summer? It is designed to create generational dependency on the state. I fail to see what's objectionable here. Or do you find the word "waif" to be offensive? If so, you're just looking for an excuse to ignore substance in the name of style.

"Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society."
~Rush Limbaugh, The Rush Limbaugh Show, August 12, 2005

Clearly, you haven't read the 35 undeniable truths, or you'd know this is another one of them, and would likely have attributed it to a much earlier date. Again, phrased satirically, but also contains a nugget of truth, because otherwise, it wouldn't be funny. Note that it nowhere states that women are undeserving of respect; it merely calls out the feminist movement. (Further elucidation on it, which usually follows after he brings up this quote, reveals that he's talking rather specifically about he brand of feminism that tries to pretend that men and women are no different in any way, and often attempts to achieve "equality" by making women behave like men.)

"Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is also a White House dog?"
~Rush Limbaugh, while holding up a photograph of 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton on his 1993 television show

A bit tasteless; I don't recall this one (sadly, I did not watch his TV show much, as it was on well past my bed time at the time, what with school early in the mornings). So far, at most, 1 "hateful" thing he's actually done. Considering par for the late-night shows' courses in the last 30 years, he's still merely sunk to the surface of their level, here. (For instance, I don't think he ever "joked" about Chelsea Clinton being raped by a basketball player, as a certain celebrated leftist host did about Sarah Palin's daughter...while Palin was a guest on his show.)

"Let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work."
~Rush Limbaugh, radio show, Fall 1993

Another example of attributing a quote to him when he was paraphrasing another's position. In this case, a rather generic justification for why we need to allow or legitimize illegal immigration. So badly out of context that I question the honesty of your source, and you should, too. He's repeated it in context many, many times, in various phrasings, and it's always a lament at the disgusting racism on display by those he's paraphrasing.

"There are more American Indians alive today than there were when Columbus arrived or at any other time in history. Does this sound like a record of genocide?"
~Rush Limbaugh, See, I Told You So, p.68, November 1993

A mixture of a valid point, lack of context, and a deliberate tweak to people who are professionally offended. 1) it's a true statement. 2) nobody is now attempting to genocide any indians. 3) the context involves discussion of modern-day "reparations" to minorities in general and the constant vilification of modern-day white man. Thus, again, the intellectual - or perhaps just plain - honesty of your source is questionable.

"Look it, let me put it to you this way. The NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."
~Rush Limbaugh January 19, 2007

...and? I'm not sure how that's "hateful." It's a bit surprising, considering how much Rush enjoys football and seeks to defend the sport, but where's the hate? Is it somehow hateful to call the sport violent? Undisciplined? (I'm guessing the latter is what he was trying to get at, as the violence that is part of the sport that pits the human machine against human machines doesn't particularly bother him.)

"You just gotta be who you are, and I think it's time to get rid of this whole National Basketball Association. Call it the TBA, the Thug Basketball Association, and stop calling them teams. Call 'em gangs."
~Rush Limbaugh, December 8, 2004

I don't recall this one; I can only guess its context had something to do with bad behavior amongst basket ball players. I'm, again, not really sure what about this is hateful or otherwise reprehensible to say. Is there, again, something wrong with being offended by bad behavior?

"Holocaust? Ninety million Indians? Only four million left? They all have casinos — what's to complain about?"
~Rush Limbaugh September 25, 2009.

Just reading this one, I can hear a sardonic tone. Perhaps you should attempt to get some context; I'm not going to bother this time.

"When a gay person turns his back on you, it is anything but an insult; it's an invitation."
~Rush Limbaugh, Summer 1994

It's a joke. A little juvenile, but still amusing. Taking offense at it to "prove" an entertainer is hateful? Somebody's looking to be offended and wield it as a weapon. Which is one of my pet peeves.

Ok, lets not let it lie. That's just a few gems from what that filth spreads everyday. Are we seriously advocating that Rush Limbaugh is satire along the same lines as The Colbert Report? No, he is absolutely not satire. He says horrible things for monetary gain. His audience believes the things he says and he keeps repeating the same, horrible things because it makes him money.

Oh, please, he absolutely is satire. Satire, news, and entertainment. None of what you've quoted above is "horrible" unless you deliberately take it out of context, hold him up to a standard against which pretty much every liberal comedian falls far further short, or are looking to be offended in order to justify calling him "filth."

Seriously, actually listen to his show for...oh, six weeks. Even one week would do a lot to clear up this hand-picked set of out-of-context quotes and make you realize that they're not a problem. If I subjected you to this sort of treatment, using everything you've ever posted here, hand picking things to make you look bad? I could.

Heck, I could make a lot of people here look like terrorists just based on things said about NCSoft. Would it be fair to do? Would it be intellectually honest? Of course not.

[eabrace]

You are using an opinion piece by a political comic as proof.

You misunderstand.  I'm not stating that the opinion presented by the article is correct or incorrect.  It was the points presented about the number of advertisers that have pulled ads and the number of ads that are being aired for Rush's show.  Really, if you wanted to boil it down to just one quote, it would probably be this:  "Well, according to the radio industry magazine 'Radio Ink,' 48 of the 50 network advertisers for Cumulus radio have excluded Limbaugh's show from their ad orders."  I guess I shouldn't have assumed that anyone would interpret that the way I intended without specifically spelling it out.

[Lightslinger]

Dont have much time, but to address point 2...Do you literally believe schools should not feed poor children? I guess if they can't bring their lunch they should go hungry, huh? Get those kids some bootstraps to pull themselves up by then they can eat!

[JaguarX]

Well Rush has always been "edgy". And the words usually don't translate well to text format. I can see how reading some of those comments can be racially offensive, like the ones about the nba and nfl. What? Another jab under guise of satire and jokes that all blacks are thugs? Sure some get into trouble but the real numbers compared to players in the nba and nfl compared to those that do "stupid" stuff is relatively small and don't see how even joking naming it Thug Basketball Association for example is funny. I mean if I joked about white athletes and lack of black players in the NHL is due to them all wanting to hang all black people and or saying ensure white people don't leave their hoods at home it might cause issues. Joking or not.

Sure some people won't see no issue with it but given history with the Indians comments that is like joking that the holocaust was no a significant event because there are more jews alive now than it was then and thus what is the big deal? Yes some own Casinos but many don't benefit just like some Jews own banks now but most as well don't.

And I listen to Rush from time to time and some stuff he say is a little "odd" but of course he gets free pass because he's Rush. If it was anyone else the media would be calling for their head and or resignation but since its Rush, no big deal its all ok no matter how offensive it is or racists. But some say he gets away with it is because his audience target have no idea what's it like on the business end of racism or being massacred for the land or being forced into slavery. So of course they wouldn't see the big deal about it.

[FatherXmas]

Dont have much time, but to address point 2...Do you literally believe schools should not feed poor children? I guess if they can't bring their lunch they should go hungry, huh? Get those kids some bootstraps to pull themselves up by then they can eat!

The question is, isn't SNAP enough?  Why do we need to introduce another plan rather than fix the first one?  How far should we extend the plan?  It started with lunch, then breakfast and in some areas now dinner with volunteer organizations providing weekend meals to children. 

What is this saying, parents aren't feeding their children with the money they are getting, is it not enough or are parents shirking their responsibility?  You don't patch one benefit program with another, you fix the first one.

[Segev]

Purely by coincidence (seriously, I wasn't looking for it), I stumbled across this article discussing Cumulus Media's Rush issues and that boycott. Mostly Cumulus media, actually, but it does discuss the boycott, and how those lists don't include people who ever DID advertise on Limbaugh's show.

It's the equivalent of a bunch of mormons signing a pledge to boycott Budweiser and Maxwell House.



And if you see racism in the NBA and NFL comments, then you're the racist; I'm sorry. Rush comments on behavior, not skin color. He probably would say something similar about the NHL if it came up on his radar. (To my knowledge, he isn't as big a fan of hockey as he is of basketball and football, so it likely won't unless somebody brings it up to him.)

As far as Indians being equivalent to Jews in the holocaust: 1) that's remarkably insensitive of you considering the actual events of the holocaust, and 2) I don't see Germany setting up national guilt-fests to blame white Germans for generational sins against jews, trying to claim that Germans are illegitimately in their own country because of how the Jews were treated, etc.

As it's the "reparations" and affirmative-action mindset to which Rush responds, attempting to liken it to the holocaust is a straw man at best, and offensive at worst.



Ah, yes, and I almost forgot the school lunch issue: No, I don't think schools should be feeding kids for free. There are programs for that already, and frankly, there are private organizations (my own church amongst them) that would be delighted to help out. I'm a huge fan of charity; I loathe government handouts. The incentives are all backwards, as a bureaucrat's job is measured by how many people he has on his program, not by how many he's gotten off of it. Charities can, at least, be much more local, and are much more directly answerable to their donors. Government needs to be made more efficient? How heartless are you for wanting to STARVE CHILDREN! Charity not doing it's job right? Well, donate to a different one.

That's digression, however. In short: no. I think parents should feed their kids. If they can't, they're squandering funds from extant programs that are already meant to.

[Illusionss]

And, since we failed our "let it lie" roll, I'll go ahead and respond to the "abortion" criticism: I don't recall ever hearing him say that, and I do listen pretty regularly. Moreover, if you actually look at how abortions ARE carried out, they're almost as violent, and certain methods still practiced today have nearly as hazardous an effect on the woman.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/01/rush-limbaugh-you-know-how-to-stop-abortion-require-that-each-one-occur-with-a-gun/267279/

My point here being not to introduce an abortion debate on the Titan forums, but that this guy wants to dish it out, and he should be well aware that 1. People ARE going to take him at face value and that 2. its a psychological truism that there really is no such thing as satire, or a joke: these are ways to state socially unacceptable views in an acceptable manner and 3. if one wishes to dish, one had best be ready to take return fire.

"Oh he's just kidding!"

"Oh its all just satire!!"

No, not really. I am pleased that this loosest of all loose cannons managed to help his team lose last November; and he is still doing all he can to ensure the future irrelevancy of his chosen party. People like him have real-world, non-satirical consequences.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=t0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQp30sMSWQQcAjZcTaG9cp1l9bMZo5AsqaonEuAxr0CdNnXmYzddw

[Lightslinger]

I'll be leaving this tangent as I see it going nowhere good.

[Segev]

Yeah, the tangent needs to end.

Elections will always speak for themselves, and we don't need to be tearing each other apart in here. I've responded to the points people have made that I couldn't bear to let stand; there's been some counter-response, but nothing I feel needs rebuttal. It's sufficient for both sides, I think, to stand on their merits and let readers judge for themselves.

So, maybe we can get Cumulus to buy out NCSoft and work their magic on them, too? >_> <_<

[JaguarX]

Purely by coincidence (seriously, I wasn't looking for it), I stumbled across this article discussing Cumulus Media's Rush issues and that boycott. Mostly Cumulus media, actually, but it does discuss the boycott, and how those lists don't include people who ever DID advertise on Limbaugh's show.

It's the equivalent of a bunch of mormons signing a pledge to boycott Budweiser and Maxwell House.



And if you see racism in the NBA and NFL comments, then you're the racist; I'm sorry. Rush comments on behavior, not skin color. He probably would say something similar about the NHL if it came up on his radar. (To my knowledge, he isn't as big a fan of hockey as he is of basketball and football, so it likely won't unless somebody brings it up to him.)

As far as Indians being equivalent to Jews in the holocaust: 1) that's remarkably insensitive of you considering the actual events of the holocaust, and 2) I don't see Germany setting up national guilt-fests to blame white Germans for generational sins against jews, trying to claim that Germans are illegitimately in their own country because of how the Jews were treated, etc.

As it's the "reparations" and affirmative-action mindset to which Rush responds, attempting to liken it to the holocaust is a straw man at best, and offensive at worst.



Ah, yes, and I almost forgot the school lunch issue: No, I don't think schools should be feeding kids for free. There are programs for that already, and frankly, there are private organizations (my own church amongst them) that would be delighted to help out. I'm a huge fan of charity; I loathe government handouts. The incentives are all backwards, as a bureaucrat's job is measured by how many people he has on his program, not by how many he's gotten off of it. Charities can, at least, be much more local, and are much more directly answerable to their donors. Government needs to be made more efficient? How heartless are you for wanting to STARVE CHILDREN! Charity not doing it's job right? Well, donate to a different one.

That's digression, however. In short: no. I think parents should feed their kids. If they can't, they're squandering funds from extant programs that are already meant to.

But saying what happened to the Indians as Rush did is not insensative and offensive? To me its on the same level as people that say that hlocaust was no big deal and or didn't happen. Why is the killing of one and joking about the murder of one group of people is offensive but joking about the murder and down grading and dismissing it as small beans is ok? If its offensive for one group it should be offensive for both but to say one is off limits but the other one that got.murked on now US soil is nothing is the real racist portion and the real offensive and insensative portion.

[VyoletRose]

Ugh, can't take anymore talk about Rush - sorry. It's off topic anyway.

I believe TV advertising works - banner ads on MMO and Gamer websites would be the best way to reach the target audience.

But gotta be honest, it wasn't any type of advertising that caught our eye for City of Heroes. My husband and I learned of the game from a show on Discovery Channel called "Gamer Generation" that aired in 2007. We thought - Oooo you can play a villain?! Gotta try it! - and thus our army of supervillains were born (Muwahahaha!)

It's a documentary about the pros and cons of MMOs and gaming in general. Sure, it focuses a lot on WoW, as it's the most well-known. And of course, it focuses on mostly the cons of gaming as negative attention always gets the most attention.

In my opinion, CoX has  the most well-rounded customer base. We are not associated with the "basement dwelling gamer" stereotype. The game was very family friendly, not just a children's game, that parents, grandparents and children could all play together. Going free-to-play really helped those who loved the game on a tight budget. The majority of our playerbase seem to be established working professionals.

Overall, I agree that more initiative could have been taken to promote advertising for the game.

I also have to agree with the argument that there weren't enough players on the servers for teaming. It was always a concern. We had SO MANY MAPS! It seemed our populace was spread very thin. We got even more maps when Going Rogue was launched, spreading us out even further!

[JaguarX]

Overall, I agree that more initiative could have been taken to promote advertising for the game.

I also have to agree with the argument that there weren't enough players on the servers for teaming. It was always a concern. We had SO MANY MAPS! It seemed our populace was spread very thin. We got even more maps when Going Rogue was launched, spreading us out even further!

Yeah

[FatherXmas]

Sure we could have gone with web ads.  However I always had a fear in the back of my mind that they'll end up like this.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.gamearena.com.au%2Fres%2F2007%2Fimages%2Ffeatures%2Fcustom%2Fsinglefeatures%2Fevony.jpg

[JaguarX]

Sure we could have gone with web ads.  However I always had a fear in the back of my mind that they'll end up like this.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.gamearena.com.au%2Fres%2F2007%2Fimages%2Ffeatures%2Fcustom%2Fsinglefeatures%2Fevony.jpg

Probably so. Probably would be a pic of Sister Psy. or one of the other scantly clad women with a "Save Me!" Look on their face. But it might of worked.