Author Topic: Are we losing momentum ??  (Read 13199 times)

Taceus Jiwede

  • Time Traveler
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2013, 10:55:14 PM »
Depending on the exact mechanics of how time travel works in this universe, it's possible that it did actually work. If you subscribe to the theory that making changes in the past doesn't alter the future you came from but instead creates a second alternate timeline where the different future plays out (Essentially making the idea of an alternate timeline and an alternate dimension one and the same), your suggestion may in fact have worked. Just not in this timeline.

Logically, that's about the only way such an action wouldn't cause a massive paradox and blow a hole in the universe. Alternately, you simply made the attempt (Or will make the attempt) and failed. Which is more likely, given that the creation of an alternate universe takes enormous amounts of energy and the universe as a whole hates expending energy when it doesn't have to. Forcing a failure on any prospective time traveller is a much easier option.

Unless of course who ever invented the time machine already went back in time to prevent NCSoft from closing but somehow made it happen on accident, in which case now they have to go back in time in the future and make sure NCSoft in fact does close CoH or we face a huge paradox,  Mender Silos would be so proud.

It reminds of the quote from Professor Farnsworth:
Quote
You mustn't interfere with the past! Don't do anything that affects anything, unless it turns out you were supposed to do it, in which case for the love of God, don't not do it!"

Sarge Morris

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 30
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2013, 12:51:36 PM »
I'd say yes.  However, I'll only say that here.  If asked anywhere else about the Save CoX Movement, however, I direct 'em here.  Kind of like when the media asks me for my take on the whole inclusion of women in combat.  I tell them, "Well, gee, I think you'd better talk to my commander about that." And I smile, nod, and point up higher.

But, again, yes, I think you're losing momentum.  This is the first time I've checked these boards in well over a month.  You've certainly lost me.  There's an incoherent scramble on multiple fronts in the software department, people are running around trying last-ditch efforts only to be shouted down by other people for not going along with their last-ditch efforts, as if they're in charge or something... 

Its been two months, folks.  I'm gonna call it, if no one else is.  CoX is, despite all attempts at resuscitation, dead. 

I'd love to eat those words.  But I don't think that's going to happen.  The Commies are going to hold onto the IP for this even if they go belly-up over it, specifically to save face.  All this overly-politically correct shenanigans about it being racist or whatever for pointing out the cultural differences is unrealistic.  The fact of the matter is, they're Korean, they made a decision, and they're going to ride it 'till the wheels fall off because they made that decision and its final.  Its what they do.  Its just how they are.  No amount of politically correct protest against stereotype is going to change that, it is what it is.  There are usually stereotypes for a reason. 

Also, to be frank, even if NCSoft does bring back CoX, I don't think I'd play it anymore.  I've got a funny feeling that if it does come back, its not going to be the same City that I knew and loved.  I sure as hell miss it, and I wish I was in touch with more of my friends from it, but its gone, folks.  If it does come back, its going to be a pale, Frankenstein-ed together mess trying to fill the shoes of its successor.  That's just what happens in the natural course of events.  Look at Star Trek.  First, it was a very story-driven science fiction tale, and it was good.  Then they tried again, and it was almost as good as the original.  Deep Space 9 rolled around, and it ended up being more about blinky-flashy firefights in space than story and by the time Enterprise rolled around, it was a bunch of goobers bleating, "Hey, remember when Star Trek did this?  We're doing it now, too!  Can we be cool?  Please?  Please like us?"  And when they handed it off to J.J. Abrams, everything became a bloated caricature of itself complete with overdone, poorly written plot contrivances and characters handled as if the director had only ever seen Family Guy's caricature of classic Star Trek and never a real episode. 

Paragon Studios has been scattered to the four winds, there's basically nobody left to turn the lights back on.  And just as Star Trek began to die a slow, lingering death after Gene Roddenberry passed away, CoX died when Paragon did.  I don't think anyone but the original team could make CoX viable again, and how many will come back? 

Perhaps its better this way.  As a Trek fan, I've had to sit through the new garbage, hoping that someone will get it right, and being painfully disappointed at every attempt.  As a CoX fan, I got to enjoy an awesome game played by awesome people made by an awesome development staff.  Unfortunately, everything died at once, but I think I'm actually okay with that now.  Once I got over the grieving stage, anyway.  Do I like the way it ended?  Did I like the way Captain Kirk had a bridge dropped on him?  Hell, no.  Absolutely not.  One of the worst ways to go in both instances.  But did the main body of work give me countless hours of fun and joy?  Yeah.  Yeah, it did, and man....  What a ride!

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 01:12:57 PM »
Well, that's great and all but I for one am a Trekkie who liked the new Trek and appreciated the fact that a new generation of fans has been brought into that universe.

And also, I still have hope in our coders working behind the scenes on top secret stuff, I do believe we will, in a much smaller fashion, be back in CoH at some point in the future.

Triplash

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,248
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 02:56:48 PM »
Its been two months, folks.  I'm gonna call it, if no one else is.

Here's the problem I think most people are having. Two months is a lot of days, which feels like a long time to us, because we operate in terms of days. But businesses don't. Small businesses operate in terms of weeks, and large businesses - the kind capable of spending millions on a single project - operate in terms of months. It's only been two months, barely enough time for a large company to notice the situation and decide whether or not to look closer.

If they do decide to look closer, they'll notice the potential price range and assign number crunchers to determine the likelihood and the time frame required to recover their investment and begin to see profits. They will also assign lawyers to determine possible delays and roadblocks. With this much time and money invested into just looking at something, they want to be sure they've covered all the details, so the people assigned to these tasks will not be rushing.

Plus it's not like those number crunchers and lawyers just sit on their heels waiting for things to do; they've got full schedules already, and new projects don't just begin immediately. No matter how attractive a prospect CoH might be, it won't be enough to drop all their other responsibilities and make it a priority. It's just something to look into, which means they get to it when its turn comes up.

Once they do start looking, they won't be finished immediately either. Any company outside of Korea would have a lot of research to do into international laws and taxes, and the area of intellectual property is unclear at best. Who knows, there may even be some obscure bylaw in one party's specific physical region that makes the sale illegal between those two particular parties, while it wouldn't be for someone else. Sometimes weird things like that pop up, and there's just no telling until you've done the research. Large businesses do realize this, it's par for the course for most of them, but that doesn't make slow things happen faster.

Long story short: two months is not enough time to call this one. Don't give up hope, Sarge. We ain't done yet. Not by far.

Omega Mark V

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 145
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 03:33:00 PM »
Not to mention out Google Call to Action has not started yet, due to this explanation with our Disney proposal:

It's only been two months, barely enough time for a large company to notice the situation and decide whether or not to look closer.

Once they do start looking, they won't be finished immediately either.

Long story short: two months is not enough time to call this one.

I'm confident we'll have CoH back sometime. A good game like that doesn't die out, just as we haven't.
- Omega Mk. V

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 03:58:55 PM »
I felt like a more reasonable time table is in months or years from the outset (or sunset, rather).

SaveCoH Projects
-Convince NCsoft to sell and find a buyer - Potentially anyday, more likely months or years if ever.
-Reverse engineer private/community server - 1 year (being optimistic with that, here's hoping though)
-Plan Z - 5-10 years


TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 04:08:11 PM »
Here's the problem I think most people are having. Two months is a lot of days, which feels like a long time to us, because we operate in terms of days. But businesses don't. Small businesses operate in terms of weeks, and large businesses - the kind capable of spending millions on a single project - operate in terms of months. It's only been two months, barely enough time for a large company to notice the situation and decide whether or not to look closer.

Triplash is precisely correct.  When we started out on this quest, I was really, REALLY hoping that NCsoft would understand quickly that letting go of the IP was in their best interest.  There was a fairly decent chance that all of this could have been wrapped up within a few weeks after the announcement or by the announced shutdown date.

However, I also knew that when we started out on this quest that there was a non-zero chance that it will turn into a long-haul slog in waiting months, maybe even years, for NCsoft to budge.  I've been up front about that the whole time, that at some point, we'd have to be VERY patient as periods of time pass.  It doesn't mean that there's not activity; it just means that for this series of events, there's not going to be a lot of day-to-day reporting on what's going on.

That doesn't mean that there's still not stuff to do.  One thing that is always helpful is to keep the pressure on NCsoft.  Continue sending them letters.  Continue participating in Task Force Hail Mary.  Keep posting messages and keep in touch here.  Be sure to stay plugged in to what's going on with The Phoenix Project and Heroes and Villains projects.  Volunteer if you have some skills either can use.  Just because we're not posting messages every day repeating that doesn't mean that we still don't need it, or that we've given up on having them happen.  We're just trying not to spam everyone with messages that say the same thing.

It's a valid point, though, and I'll try to post stuff once in a while on the ongoing effort to get NCsoft to release the IP and about the new projects.

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 04:13:09 PM »
Agreed, two months is not nearly enough time for this process.  I and others in Colorado Civil Service used to joke that both government and glaciers start with the letter "G" and often seemed to move at about the same pace - of course that was long before we knew about global warming and climate change....    ;)
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

Ironwolf

  • Stubborn as a
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,503
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 04:16:00 PM »
I will repeat a timeline given I work for a large company and how they do things:

1. Idea submitted to a company - filtered by secretaries or lower management - 2 weeks before it ever sees a main dudes desk.

2. He likes the idea and wants to explore it - assigns it to a lower manager who then gives it to a team to investigate it - 2-4 weeks

3. Money team investigates it and finds that there is a market for it and the cost could be paid for in 26 months and then it would start making a profit, they also do a cost analysis and find that by advertising X dollars you could gain x dollars back. - 1-2 months

4. Team passes it to legal - legal runs the purchase agreement and looks to see if it infringes or could leave them open to any liabilities - 2-3 months,

5. Report back to CEO or management and give the green light - 1 month

6. Offer tendered to NCSoft for purchase of software IP and account information - NCSoft decides whether to sell or not, says yes and gets their lawyers involved - 1-2 months

7. Game is purchased - server and development team hired game is ported and Alpha is started. 1-2 months

8. Open Beta - 1-2 months.

Game opens about 12-18 months after this all starts.

So no I don't feel there is anything to worry about at this stage. I think after only 60 days we are just fine and we lost 15 of those 60 for the holiday.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 08:07:55 PM by Ironwolf »

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 10:20:21 PM »
GO, GO GOOD TEAM!!!!!   

Someone had to say it!  :P 
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

healix

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,695
  • Every good friend was once a stranger
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2013, 11:36:59 PM »
rickety-rackety ree.......kick em in the knee!!!!!

rickety-rackety rass......kick em in the..................other knee!!!!

Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2013, 12:23:44 AM »
Emulsify them! Emulsify them! Turn them into a thin film over the playing surface!

We had very geeky cheers in college.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2013, 02:09:16 AM »
My favorite was at the bottom:

"SAVE THIS SHEET!  LEARN THESE CHEERS!"

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2013, 02:13:57 AM »
Emulsify them! Emulsify them! Turn them into a thin film over the playing surface!

We had very geeky cheers in college.

Demosthenes!  Thucydides!  Peloponnesian War!  X-squared!  Y-squared! H2SO4!
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2013, 07:25:05 AM »
Aeschylus! Sappho ("With his venom irresistible and bittersweet, Love that loosener of limbs strikes me down!"), Socrates!  one small smidge of Plato, Pythagoras, and Aphrodite.  1 of Hydrogen 2 of Oxygen, and all of Norton Justin's The Phantom Tollbooth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth especially the Princesses Rhyme and Reason and the kings AZAZ and the Mathemagician.  Add a touch of Half Magic by Edward Eager, and maybe some of Magic by the Lake and all of Seslyle Joslin's What Do You Say, Dear? and What Do You Do, Dear? as well as Sylvia Louise Engdahl, Patricia McKillip, Ursula K. LeGuin, and Roger Zelazny!

May the spirit of the Bards be with each and everyone one of us.  Best Wishes to all Titans, even those who don't read or post here.  Namaste

*Editing to note I (LOL) said 1 Hydrogen and 2 Oxygen, when I was thinking H2O water, but I shall let the error stand since I'm rather fond of atmospheres with breathable air as well as water.   :D
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 11:18:06 PM by johnrobey »
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2013, 07:34:27 AM »
rickety-rackety ree.......kick em in the knee!!!!!

rickety-rackety rass......kick em in the..................other knee!!!!


Dear Healix,
That was my knee you know, dear, for I slipped on the Minnesota ice just yesterday.  Nope, no serious injury, just an unexpected, unintended pratfall (i think we can all agree that at times I am something of a prat).  LMAO!!!!  Hugs, Healix, good seeing you here.  TTYL, dearhearts.  Ciao!
P.S. hmmm, after looking at current dictionary definitions for prat, I think I would prefer to use the term "fool" as in there is no fool like an old fool.  Add here notions about foolishness, the role of fools, and even the symbolism of The Fool in a deck of tarot cards.  Peace out!
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

srmalloy

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 450
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2013, 07:57:21 PM »
Emulsify them! Emulsify them! Turn them into a thin film over the playing surface!

We had very geeky cheers in college.

Shift to the left! Shift to the right! Pop up, push down, byte, byte, byte!

Although MIT's has to be the geekiest:

I'm a Beaver!
Yu're a Beaver!
We are Beavers all!
And when we get together
We do the Beaver call!
e^u  du/dx!
e^x dx!
Cosine, secant, tangent, sine!
3.14159!
Integral, radical, mu dv!
Slipstick, slide rule, MIT!
Goooo TECH!

Perfidus

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
  • "I, ah.. understand."
    • My arts.
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2013, 11:23:06 PM »
I respect you Sarge, but I'm going to have to agree with the others who've said that two months simply isn't long enough. Especially when you consider those two months were smack dab in the middle of the holiday season, where very little happens in the corporate world anyway.

I understand if you want to throw in the towel. Many others are following suit. But many more, myself included, aren't yet done fighting. So if you're going to 'call it', call it for you and you alone.

Xieveral

  • Chaotic Neutral
  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 197
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 01:04:58 AM »
Not to mention out Google Call to Action has not started yet, due to this explanation with our Disney proposal:

I'm confident we'll have CoH back sometime. A good game like that doesn't die out, just as we haven't.

Originally, the Disney effort (on our part, not their decision-making) was going to last anywhere from two weeks to a month. But I think VV said that back on the official forums, not here.

As for Google, I thought VV's contact was to get back to her mid-January on the proposal. (not a yes or no, but something like "I got it to them, now we wait and see"")

Understandaby, things change but there's so much "what if"

The big one being what if Disney keeps as quiet as NCSoft and don't give a reply whatsoever, not even a "we recieved your letters but have not made a decision at this time" we can't afford to wait on them forever. Interest in picking up the game diminishes with every day, week, month that goes by.

While we wait, wouldn't it be better to start work on the next target? Maybe if there's competition, someone's more likely to jump at the offer instead of dragging their feet.

I don't think anyone's expecting Disney to say "Yes, we'll buy it!" but we would like a "We hear you, we haven't made any decisions yet." rather than worrying that our letters sit in the trash and they're staying quiet (like NCSoft)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 01:14:42 AM by Xieveral »
?RSN = CKN(CRS.ROD)

RSN = GLR(EMP.MCL)

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Are we losing momentum ??
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 03:44:19 AM »
Shift to the left! Shift to the right! Pop up, push down, byte, byte, byte!

Although MIT's has to be the geekiest:

I'm a Beaver!
Yu're a Beaver!
We are Beavers all!
And when we get together
We do the Beaver call!
e^u  du/dx!
e^x dx!
Cosine, secant, tangent, sine!
3.14159!
Integral, radical, mu dv!
Slipstick, slide rule, MIT!
Goooo TECH!


I had to find it.. AND I DID:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV_BrpK4W7g

LOL. :)