Author Topic: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons  (Read 5746 times)

Ionmatrix

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City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« on: May 02, 2013, 06:28:33 AM »
ok guys ive been playinng coh for over 7 years and finally  Cryptic studios has got it right. Never Winter knights online is THE closest thing to coh I have found.  Still looking forward to plan z and and all but these guys have gontten right. Download the game and see.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 07:21:31 AM »
been playing since the 1st CB weekend and have really enjoyed it. i agree with what u say.
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Minotaur

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 07:41:32 AM »
It's not really related to CoH, it's a much more challenging game to play and coming into it fresh, I'm finding it a lot more difficult to handle.

My major problem is the much lower level of customization that you can make to the controls, I don't like the mouse only moving the camera, and having to strafe R/L rather than being able to turn with the KB.  The game itself is fun, but there is a bit too much P2W for my liking. Also would much prefer to have a mouse option for picking stuff up/doing stuff rather than having to hit F all the time.

It does appear to be fairly well designed and is fun.

Aggelakis

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 08:03:49 AM »
I don't think it's even remotely like City, but it's turning out to be kinda fun, if occasionally frustrating.
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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 09:40:08 AM »
It's certainly a lot better off than CO or STO were at launch, which admittedly doesn't take too much effort. And I dunno about pay to win, I've yet to encounter anything I can't do without buying something.

Minotaur

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 11:35:32 AM »
It's certainly a lot better off than CO or STO were at launch, which admittedly doesn't take too much effort. And I dunno about pay to win, I've yet to encounter anything I can't do without buying something.

Level your crafting to max in a couple of days and have the market cornered ?

General Idiot

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 11:10:43 PM »
True enough, but it's not like you can't level it at all without paying. That's the point I'm trying to make, most of the paid stuff is just convenience or 'make this go faster'. It's not stuff you need, strictly.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 12:04:13 AM »
I'll agree with you on the sense that Cryptic has gotten better at putting out a polished product. That said, they really need to smack their database and network admins. Twitter and Facebook were fun to watch yesterday as the server problems played out.

I went back to try DCUO over the weekend, and it struck me that that was the game that MW most reminded me of, at least in the combat/targeting mechanic. Eliot (the Mild Mannered report) had said some positive things, and I'd been reading in various places about improvements they had made, so I thought that was enough to warrant giving it another look.

I didn't even finish the tutorial. There are a couple of things they threw in that annoyed me, so @#$% it. :)

And, since that makes three games mentioned outside CoH and the original topic, maybe this thread needs to go in "Other Games." ;)
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Illusionss

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 05:50:09 AM »
ok guys ive been playinng coh for over 7 years and finally  Cryptic studios has got it right. Never Winter knights online is THE closest thing to coh I have found.  Still looking forward to plan z and and all but these guys have gontten right. Download the game and see.

I would not at all say that this is the closest thing to CoH I have found [nothing is even close], but it seems at least PLAYABLE and that is nice. So I'll tinker around with it, but as far as becoming a hardcore addict - probably not.

I will never trust a big-name game studio again. Its just not wise. So I am passing time till PP.

JWBullfrog

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 10:36:45 PM »
It's not really related to CoH, it's a much more challenging game to play and coming into it fresh, I'm finding it a lot more difficult to handle.

My major problem is the much lower level of customization that you can make to the controls, I don't like the mouse only moving the camera, and having to strafe R/L rather than being able to turn with the KB.  The game itself is fun, but there is a bit too much P2W for my liking. Also would much prefer to have a mouse option for picking stuff up/doing stuff rather than having to hit F all the time.

It does appear to be fairly well designed and is fun.

I have a solution for you on the F key situation. You can map that over to a mouse button. I have mine mapped to the right click. Look under options-keymapping-interactions (find where the F key defaults to) I've also found it useful to remap the window selection buttons (the options that come up on pop up windows) to the F1-F3 keys. Those two things have helped improve the flow of the game.
The only thing I have not found that can be key mapped around is the mouse to move controls.
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.

Cinnder

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 10:54:04 PM »
The thing that has kept me away so far is this quote about combat in their overview video: "Block, dodge, aim, and counterattack."  That makes it sound much more like twitch combat, which is something I was glad CoH did not have. 

For those of you that have played it, is this accurate?

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 10:57:19 PM »
The thing that has kept me away so far is this quote about combat in their overview video: "Block, dodge, aim, and counterattack."  That makes it sound much more like twitch combat, which is something I was glad CoH did not have. 

For those of you that have played it, is this accurate?

It it more movement based that CoH but it it nowhere near twitch gaming levels. I simply do not have the reflexes for twitching and I get by just fine. Blocking is a bit more important but, unless you are playing a quardian fighter, you can get by without it. I've played a cleric up to 20 so far and I haven't blocked once. I've dodged a lot (which you can do with a quick double tap in the direction you want to go) but I've forgotten where my block button is.
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 09:43:52 AM »
In my experience most stuff is slow enough that you can dodge it unless you're really slow or lagging badly, and even then all that happens if you fail is you chew a few more potions over the course of the fight. I've yet to run into anything that's more the 'dodge this or die' that some more action oriented games have.

Cinnder

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 04:35:29 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I've tried it now, and you guys are right that it's not strictly twitch combat, but it is kinda hold-down-a-key combat, which is not really my thing.  I loved the way recharge times and endurance made combat in CoX a real exercise for the brain, having to plan which power to use next, keeping an eye on the blue bar, etc.

Also they seem to have made the odd assumption that everyone uses keys to execute commands, and I've always been an icon-based player.  The fact that you have to use a key to toggle the mouse cursor on is strangely disorienting to me.  Those things, combined with some of the worst voice acting I've heard in a long time, means this game is not for me, but I'm happy if some Paragon refugees are finding solace somewhere.  I will have to keep looking.

To the OP -- I'm curious: what made you say it's like CoX?  I don't see any similarity, but one of the great things about CoX was that there were so many ways to play and such a variety in what people actually got out of the game, so it could just be that you look for something different in an MMO, which is cool.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 11:05:37 PM »
NW is pretty fun, although I'm not a fan of having my powers attacked to keybinds. I like to keep my left hand on WASD so I can move, and fire powers at the same time. It's possible with the 2 mouse attacks, but I'd rather have a cursor that I can click on a power in my power tray(especially if it's like CoH where you can que an attack to fire when it is ready/in range).

I've only gotten a HWF, and GF up to level 6 so far, so I don't really have much more to say about powers/balance/gear grind/etc, but it seems to have the same limited character appearance, powerset options, and environment as most other fantasy MMOs.

Superhero games have really spoiled me away from fantasy games, and I was a big Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter, and console RPG gamer back in the day.  I'll still play when I can, but not much time for playing games these days. Tera, GW2, and Diablo 3 are wasting away on my PC, barely played.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2013, 08:33:18 AM »
My impressions: 
1- This is NOT CoX-like - it is another fantasy MMO; 
2- Character customization is lackluster compared to CoX - only 5 classes, all using the same-looking gear per level as others like you; 
3- You can play one of 6 different races, but with no significant difference in gameplay; 
4- But - it is not really DnD either.  About the only thing DnD-like (at least for the old pnp crowd) is the title and splash page;   
5- Controls are oddly different from that old familiar CoX feel and cannot be made to work the same way;  Forget click-to-target, won't work.
6- Gameplay  (that is to say, combat) is more challenging and demanding, but not twitchily so (I have been known to run 2-3 CoX characters through missions together on separate accounts, using only autofollow/assist and 3 separate keyboards - there's no way to manage that in NW).
7- Community - it is what it isl right now it seems mostly rude and zerg-like, but turn off Zone chat & guild up with friends & you are golden.
8- Quest Loot - Today I was running with 2 close CoX friends and we queued together for a special mission.  We were pug-paired with two others who played ok, though mostly quiet . Then when the rare loot dropped, they hit "need" when the items were outside their class.  This is apparently a frequent pug issue.  Until they fix this, from now on in pugs, I make it clear, everyone "needs" blue gear, to keep it random.
9- Unfinished;  certainly enough content to carry anyone through once or twice to max level, but still a lot of Nigs & little motivation to fix most of them (PWE has a bad habit of ignoring what's not game-breaking in favor of developing the next in-game cash cow). 


WHAT IT IS:
1-  In a few words:   FUN.   Fast.   Pretty.   Engaging.   Free (or not).( I am a CoX diehard, and though I've played DDO, it never had my allegiance.)
2-  Though the controls are strikingly different and take some getting used to, they work well for the combat style, and there's no undue 'twitching'.  You choose which of your available powers to upgrade and prep on the power bar, so there's some chance to be 'different', and the dodge is just a quick movement burst you have available for when you find yourself standing in a red circle.  Blocking is a viable option to dodging if you play the shield-carrying Guardian Fighter - but it's not required.
3-  The Classes ARE unusual enough to give them each some novelty, and each is capable of some pretty flashy epic combat.  So there's enough to keep busy for some time.  More classes are planned in the near-immediate future (chosen from the list of 100+ prestiges in the 4th Edition DnD Game).
4-  Customization:  always gonna be an issue since characters are so highly gear-based, ie. every rogue will be working toward pretty much the same uber gear (not entirely true, but close enough).  However, characters also can display normal clothing rather than armor, for a bit of RP flair, and dye is readily available and easy to use on your armor/clothing (each piece can have 3 colors).
4-  Companions:  If you want for RP or some specialized help in missions, you can add several companions to your character, (first one is free at 16), any one of which can be summoned to play along with you at any time.
5-  The setting:  The settings are very well done, even immersive, and sometimes stunning.
6- The Foundry:  This is the illegitimate child of CoX's AE.  Player created content that is keyed to locations on the normal player map.  At 15 you can design your own quests, stories and publish them for others to try.  If they like your stories, people can leave a tip in Astral Diamonds, the most used currency of the game.  The Foundry quests I've played were innovative and enjoyable.

7- It's free.  completely.   You can try without risk, download, start a character, play through the tutorial.  Play through the starter zone missions, look around, you are level 9-10.  They sell all sorts of things for real money, and you'll see things you'd like to have - BUT HERE'S THE KEY:  You can get it for free if you are willing to wait for it.   Earn a few easy Astrals & specialty coins every day through crafting, invocations, missions, the foundry.  Take any decent drops you get to the AH and sell them for a fair price.  The best money comes, as always off the AH.  Buy what's posted too cheap, repost it for a profit, you'll have enough for that White Faux Fur Boa in no time.

Now I'm tired, but you get the idea:  It's not gonna be cox, but its pretty good anyway, and until something better comes along, or PWE does something really stupid, I expect I'll play through NWO a few times.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2013, 12:45:09 PM »
It's not really related to CoH, it's a much more challenging game to play and coming into it fresh, I'm finding it a lot more difficult to handle.

My major problem is the much lower level of customization that you can make to the controls, I don't like the mouse only moving the camera, and having to strafe R/L rather than being able to turn with the KB.  The game itself is fun, but there is a bit too much P2W for my liking. Also would much prefer to have a mouse option for picking stuff up/doing stuff rather than having to hit F all the time.

It does appear to be fairly well designed and is fun.
Not being able to use keyboard for movement is such a deal breaker for me. If fact. not being able to use the keys I want to is a deal breaker.

Lack of costume options, ie gear is saddening.

Having to collect loot - bleh. Time wasting crap.

It may be a good game, but saying it's cox like is not accurate imo.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2013, 02:07:16 PM »
Not being able to use keyboard for movement is such a deal breaker for me. If fact. not being able to use the keys I want to is a deal breaker.
I assume you've already tried customizing the keybinds?  I've always used the keyboard to strafe and move forward/back while using the mouse to rotate, so I wasn't looking for rotate in the binds.  Everything I wanted to do for basic movement I was able to remap, though.  Can't say the same is true for some games - especially since I tend to use the right CTRL key to jump.
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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 02:17:48 PM »
2- Character customization is lackluster compared to CoX - only 5 classes, all using the same-looking gear per level as others like you;
While I agree with your general statement and you're certainly correct about the gear from what I've seen, it's worth pointing out that CoH only had 5 ATs at launch.

Quote
5- Controls are oddly different from that old familiar CoX feel and cannot be made to work the same way;  Forget click-to-target, won't work.
Like I said above, movement I was able to completely remap, so I'm OK with that.  The thing that's annoying me, however, is that I can't activate abilities with clicks and I can't (apparently) have all of my trained abilities in the hotbar at one time starting around level 20.

Quote
6- Gameplay  (that is to say, combat) is more challenging and demanding, but not twitchily so (I have been known to run 2-3 CoX characters through missions together on separate accounts, using only autofollow/assist and 3 separate keyboards - there's no way to manage that in NW).
I'm not sure about challenging, and I think combat is only as twitchy as you want it to be, but I agree that you certainly aren't very easily going to be running multiple characters on separate keyboards with this game.

Quote
7- Community - it is what it isl right now it seems mostly rude and zerg-like, but turn off Zone chat & guild up with friends & you are golden.
I don't look at general chat at all.  I've pretty much replaced that with the CoX channel.

One thing I'll say in favor of Neverwinter: the ability to solo with my rogue in this game is far, far better than it is with my rogues in DDO.

On the flip side:  I very much prefer my rogues to be masters of intellectual combat (setting their own traps, outmaneuvering opponents to take the high ground or flank, making use of poisons, throwing grenade weapons, isolating enemies in locked rooms they can't escape, etc.)  That was limited enough in DDO, but it's just about non-existent in Neverwinter.  (Oddly enough, Neverwinter Nights let me do just about everything I wanted to do with my rogues.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 02:26:41 PM by eabrace »
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srmalloy

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 05:40:42 PM »

Cinnder

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 07:01:32 PM »
...since I tend to use the right CTRL key to jump.

So I'm not alone after all!  You must be old, like me -- raised on Doom.

eabrace

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2013, 07:15:24 PM »
I cut my teeth on Wolfenstein 3D, but passed a lot of time playing Doom, Quake, and Rise of the Triad in college.
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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2013, 10:22:45 PM »
Bah! You kids and your 3D! I remember when it was just Castle Wolfenstein in the Apple ][, and it barely had color! 'Course, I was using a 13" black and white TV...

:P
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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 01:54:12 AM »
Castle Wolfenstein? Bah! Castle Wolfenstein would have been a luxury for me! I played Swordquest Earthworld on the Atari 2600. And I didn't even have the comic! Oy vey!

JWBullfrog

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 02:07:07 AM »
wow, earthworld.   Now there is an example of an over ambitious project.
 
I gave up on that after a few days (and i even had the comic) and went back to warlords
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 08:14:37 AM »
I was very late to the PC platform.  All of my gaming up to that point had been on the Vic-20 before we upgraded to an Amiga 500.  I didn't get my first PC until 1994.
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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2013, 06:29:02 PM »
Atari 2600, why, I would have killed for an Atari 2600.   I made do with one game, Star Wars Electronic Battle Command, and liked it.

But you try and tell kids that nowadays, and they don't believe you.

Castle Wolfenstein? Bah! Castle Wolfenstein would have been a luxury for me! I played Swordquest Earthworld on the Atari 2600. And I didn't even have the comic! Oy vey!

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2013, 08:10:22 AM »
I assume you've already tried customizing the keybinds?  I've always used the keyboard to strafe and move forward/back while using the mouse to rotate, so I wasn't looking for rotate in the binds.  Everything I wanted to do for basic movement I was able to remap, though.  Can't say the same is true for some games - especially since I tend to use the right CTRL key to jump.
Nope, I just look in options to see if it's possible. And move on if it's not easy.


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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2013, 08:14:48 AM »

srmalloy

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Re: City of heroes meets Dungeon and Dragons
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2013, 03:14:09 PM »
Atari 2600, why, I would have killed for an Atari 2600.   I made do with one game, Star Wars Electronic Battle Command, and liked it.

Feh. All you people who got to use electronics. I had to play Racetrack.