Doubters and Downers. . .

[Ironwolf]

I can say on behalf of all of us we are so sorry that we were unable to get the deal done faster for you.

I can't make you understand we don't get to choose how fast NCSoft moves. If you want to blame someone start with me. Leave the team alone and hold your "expectations" as we have repeatedly tried to explain that we have no control over anything that is happening. Do you know what an NDA is?

It means they can't talk about the deal and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA. The people here on this board have been given far more information than ANY company normally provides while making a deal. If that does not satisfy you then - it is on you.

[Safehouse]

Well I could be wrong, and forgive me if I am, but I was under the impression that this thread was created as a place where people could express their doubts, fears, and questions so that others could help allay those doubts, fears, and questions. Again, I could be wrong.

Personally, I was in the camp of expecting/hoping to be playing CoH again by Halloween, and definitely thinking I would have gotten in game before the holidays. And it has been a bit depressing that we haven't gotten there sooner. So on the one hand I can understand the folks who are uneasy or frustrated about how things are going.

On the other hand, what people like Burnt Toast are trying to do is help show things from an alternative perspective. They're not saying that what we feel is wrong, but they are doing what they can to try and help alleviate some of that discomfort that we have re:the amount of time this deal is taking. The wording might be harsh sometimes, and tensions might be running high, but at the core all of our hearts are in the right place.

I don't think that those who are offering a different point of view are trying to tell folks not to rain on their parade, but they are trying to help those of us who are having a hard time seeing the positives.

Do I wish the game was back by now? Absolutely. Do I have concerns about how the deal is proceeding? Without a doubt. And I certainly wonder where the community will be if this takes much longer. But, at the same time, I can definitely see where those with the more positive outlook are coming from. I am also aware that there very well might be/probably are things that cannot be shared through the course of the business deal.

Folks like Ironwolf and Burnt Toast are helping me become less skeptical about the way things are going. I'm okay with waiting, even if it is with grand anticipation

[Burnt Toast]

You have to remember that negotiations have only been going for a few months...I think some people are mis-reading the timeline. Contact with the appropriate person at NCSoft didn't even happen until July 3rd. Expecting that in 4 months a deal would have been finalized...all code tweaking would be completed...a new paragon market started and tested...as well as beta testing in general...would allow for a Halloween grand re-opening is a bit... short sighted.


I have no fear that when the announcement is made... you will see more and more former CoH members flock here for more information. If you think for one second nearly every MMO website out there won't be praising the revival of CoH....giving us all the free publicity we could ever want Whether the announcement is today or in a few months (More realistic)... we are not going to see a huge difference in the number of returnees and new players. CoH players have waited 2 years now for their game to return... a few months in hindsight... not going to matter much if it means the game returns in all it's glory.


My WHOLE point of replying to any of this thread...is to again..and again..and again.. tell people to be realistic and patient. This is not an easy deal to broker...and it has many hurdles to overcome...so yes it is going to take some time. I realize Nate not posting here every week or month is aggravating for people, but you also have to realize...as has been said numerous times... NDA. Nothing can be said...except the negotiations etc are on-going. I know people wanna hear... "We will be signing on xx/xx/xxx date barring any complications," but this is not an option and that is typical business.


So sure.. doubt all you want... heck be a downer if that's your thing. All I ask is ... do not create false "realities" and claim that things should be this way or that way since such claims are... not true. Be doubtful, but also be open to the information that is being provided... be open to the encouragement offered by the community.... Pessimism can be healthy...especially when you have VALID reasons to be pessimistic, but pessimism just to be pessimistic does no good for anyone.

Well I could be wrong, and forgive me if I am, but I was under the impression that this thread was created as a place where people could express their doubts, fears, and questions so that others could help allay those doubts, fears, and questions. Again, I could be wrong.

Personally, I was in the camp of expecting/hoping to be playing CoH again by Halloween, and definitely thinking I would have gotten in game before the holidays. And it has been a bit depressing that we haven't gotten there sooner. So on the one hand I can understand the folks who are uneasy or frustrated about how things are going.

On the other hand, what people like Burnt Toast are trying to do is help show things from an alternative perspective. They're not saying that what we feel is wrong, but they are doing what they can to try and help alleviate some of that discomfort that we have re:the amount of time this deal is taking. The wording might be harsh sometimes, and tensions might be running high, but at the core all of our hearts are in the right place.

I don't think that those who are offering a different point of view are trying to tell folks not to rain on their parade, but they are trying to help those of us who are having a hard time seeing the positives.

Do I wish the game was back by now? Absolutely. Do I have concerns about how the deal is proceeding? Without a doubt. And I certainly wonder where the community will be if this takes much longer. But, at the same time, I can definitely see where those with the more positive outlook are coming from. I am also aware that there very well might be/probably are things that cannot be shared through the course of the business deal.

Folks like Ironwolf and Burnt Toast are helping me become less skeptical about the way things are going. I'm okay with waiting, even if it is with grand anticipation

[BadWolf]

1.  I don't "blame" NCSoft for anything other than perhaps not availing themselves of the opportunity to strike while the iron is hot (more reddish yellow, than white hot at this point I am afraid).  The ONLY point I have been trying to make is that the power to move this forward is completely theirs to govern, and the indicators are (unless there is an announcement pending very soon) that they are in no particular hurry.  I contend that the more time that goes by, the more the risk to the long term viability of any proposed business model around this game.  I may not have all the information, at my disposal, and I may not be an expert in international business transactions....but I have been around, and I know enough, and have seen enough to tell me they are not doing themselves any favors with this approach.

The thing you have to understand is that NCSoft would rather make no deal than a bad deal. They are going to take as much time as it takes to reassure themselves that the people they are selling this to are going to make them a good return on the deal; if they sell it to someone, and that group mismanages the property, then even if it reverts to them it will have lost value from the mismanagement. So they're not "in no hurry"; they're being justifiably cautious. An extra year is not going to significantly reduce the nostalgia value of CoH for those people who play it, while selling it to someone who makes a crappy game will. That answers a lot of your questions right there--they're taking their sweet time because the biggest worry they have is selling it to someone who won't take care of it.

[hurple]

I have no fear that when the announcement is made... you will see more and more former CoH members flock here for more information. If you think for one second nearly every MMO website out there won't be praising the revival of CoH....giving us all the free publicity we could ever want Whether the announcement is today or in a few months (More realistic)... we are not going to see a huge difference in the number of returnees and new players. CoH players have waited 2 years now for their game to return... a few months in hindsight... not going to matter much if it means the game returns in all it's glory.

And there will also be some people who have never played CoX logging on to try the game, and see what all the fuss was about, after all the hullabaloo of the closing, and fight to get it re-opened.

[Ohioknight]

Well, on the bright side, there don't look to be any more new "informational demand" threads cropping up anymore!  So kudos to the OP of this thread.  Mission accomplished.   

Well, I will say that I know a lot more now than I did when I was given this thread as a gift. 

I certainly didn't realize that real negotiations didn't begin until August, I'd thought they were going along in July and that an August closing was expected by the team -- which does seem staggeringly fast if there was real negotiation work still to do (much less not begun).   And something has given me a pretty clear idea that some folks who have been less forthcoming are under an NDA which is probably a very good sign.  And obviously the original intention is undergoing some modifications though negotiation (which indicates NCSoft isn't simply tossing the property over the sales counter... strange since they seem to have had no OTHER ambitions for it).

Anyway, since it's been a while since I said this...

THANK YOU to all the folks involved in the deal from IronWolf, Nate, Irish Girl, Warcabbit, on down the line to those further behind the scenes

quibbling and impatience aside, this is still unbridled awesomeness on all your guy's parts.

DAMN, I'm in the wrong thread again, aren't I 

[HEATSTROKE]

Here is something I shared with someone regarding about their opinion that the negotiations were taking too long..


How long should it take..
when did the negotiations officially start..
do you know all the terms of the negotiation..
do you know all the requirements and the stipulations??
do you know all the terms??..
do you even know exactly WHAT is being purchased and negotiated?..
do you know what state the game is actually in currently??...
is it in a state where it can be run effectively??
whats the purchase price...
exactly what does that get you..
and for how long ??
what about future projects and rights to those
what about future earning rights ??
naming rights ??
potential copyright issues..
what about protection from possible future lawsuits ??

ALL these things need to be discussed... and possible a WHOLE WHOLE lot more...

and thats off the top of my head from a guy that deals with business in a very very minor way..

So let the process play out..

People need to realize that there are a LOT of details to be ironed out.. the best thing to do is dont set any dates for yourself and hope for the best..

[Burnt Toast]

Simply quoting for truth

Here is something I shared with someone regarding about their opinion that the negotiations were taking too long..


How long should it take..
when did the negotiations officially start..
do you know all the terms of the negotiation..
do you know all the requirements and the stipulations??
do you know all the terms??..
do you even know exactly WHAT is being purchased and negotiated?..
do you know what state the game is actually in currently??...
is it in a state where it can be run effectively??
whats the purchase price...
exactly what does that get you..
and for how long ??
what about future projects and rights to those
what about future earning rights ??
naming rights ??
potential copyright issues..
what about protection from possible future lawsuits ??

ALL these things need to be discussed... and possible a WHOLE WHOLE lot more...

and thats off the top of my head from a guy that deals with business in a very very minor way..

So let the process play out..

People need to realize that there are a LOT of details to be ironed out.. the best thing to do is dont set any dates for yourself and hope for the best..

[Ohioknight]

Hey Burnt, if it will make you feel better about the fan grumbling going on around here, check out the folks over at reddit's /r/spacex bitching at the company for not making an announcement about their Mars transport engine fast enough! 

Raptor Engine... Larger than the F1 engines that launched the Apollo missions on the Saturn V... Company doing it entirely of their own volition... NOT FAST ENOUGH!!!

"I just hope this isnt the "Duke Nukem Forever" of rockets.
I know the end product will be awesome(hopefully!) its just this new day and age of I want everything now! (myself included) Drip feeds of specs etc would be mint though
"

[Burnt Toast]

Unfortunately the internet has not helped our desire for instant gratification...it has made it ten times worse


Research a school paper.. Google. When I was in school... you had to actually go to a library...look things up in an encyclopedia and other sources... oh the travesty!


Renting a movie...Amazon/Itunes/Vudu/Google Play. Or when I was young... go to the video store and hope they had what you wanted.


My niece is 12 and she has no idea what life is without the internet... and she had no idea what a record was...we just told her it was a really big cd that required a special player.... Then again she also has no clue what a VCR is... or what goes in them... ugh. I think her generation is going to be so much worse when it comes to wanting things... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Burnt, if it will make you feel better about the fan grumbling going on around here, check out the folks over at reddit's /r/spacex bitching at the company for not making an announcement about their Mars transport engine fast enough! 

Raptor Engine... Larger than the F1 engines that launched the Apollo missions on the Saturn V... Company doing it entirely of their own volition... NOT FAST ENOUGH!!!

"I just hope this isnt the "Duke Nukem Forever" of rockets.
I know the end product will be awesome(hopefully!) its just this new day and age of I want everything now! (myself included) Drip feeds of specs etc would be mint though
"

[Ohioknight]

Unfortunately the internet has not helped our desire for instant gratification...it has made it ten times worse

Research a school paper.. Google. When I was in school... you had to actually go to a library...look things up in an encyclopedia and other sources... oh the travesty!

Renting a movie...Amazon/Itunes/Vudu/Google Play. Or when I was young... go to the video store and hope they had what you wanted.

Hey, when I was young we didn't have no fancy "video stores"

Lord, when I was ten...

Oops, wait a minute... Isn't this how I triggered twenty full pages of replies in the "New Efforts" thread last summer? 

[Ankhammon]

Unfortunately the internet has not helped our desire for instant gratification...it has made it ten times worse


Research a school paper.. Google. When I was in school... you had to actually go to a library...look things up in an encyclopedia and other sources... oh the travesty!


Renting a movie...Amazon/Itunes/Vudu/Google Play. Or when I was young... go to the video store and hope they had what you wanted.


My niece is 12 and she has no idea what life is without the internet... and she had no idea what a record was...we just told her it was a really big cd that required a special player.... Then again she also has no clue what a VCR is... or what goes in them... ugh. I think her generation is going to be so much worse when it comes to wanting things... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that I would pour gas on a fire, but have you thought about 10 yrs down the road when she can just print many of the items she wants?

Here's a top 10 that will give you ideas (or nightmares).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CveIhsZxcok

[Balince]

I can say on behalf of all of us we are so sorry that we were unable to get the deal done faster for you.

I can't make you understand we don't get to choose how fast NCSoft moves. If you want to blame someone start with me. Leave the team alone and hold your "expectations" as we have repeatedly tried to explain that we have no control over anything that is happening. Do you know what an NDA is?

It means they can't talk about the deal and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA. The people here on this board have been given far more information than ANY company normally provides while making a deal. If that does not satisfy you then - it is on you.

I've been mostly only following your posts, I'm extremely pleased with what you have been saying recently. Basically explaining the situation, the hold up, and with what you've said we know that you feel the deal is very much on their mind and is something they're going through measures to make the sale happen. I'm extremely excited and feel their is a good chance this happens, might not be today or tomorrow, but hopefully within the next 6 months(just throwing a timetable that I'm hoping for) it could potentially happen.

[Illusionss]

I can say on behalf of all of us we are so sorry that we were unable to get the deal done faster for you.

I can't make you understand we don't get to choose how fast NCSoft moves. If you want to blame someone start with me. Leave the team alone and hold your "expectations" as we have repeatedly tried to explain that we have no control over anything that is happening. Do you know what an NDA is?

It means they can't talk about the deal and they can't even tell you they are under an NDA. The people here on this board have been given far more information than ANY company normally provides while making a deal. If that does not satisfy you then - it is on you.

... You know, one can only say the same thing so many times. You, and others have repeatedly laid out the obstacles in our paths in this instance. If some people have unrealistic expectations, that is really not a problem you can solve.

I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.

There are none so blind as those who choose not to see. If people don't want to see, you cant force them to see. And there is no reason to feel bad about it.

[Thunder Glove]

I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.

Yes, I very much agree that wanting to be kept in the loop and up to date on a subject that is very much near and dear to our hearts is exactly the same thing as being a whiny entitled crybaby throwing a temper tantrum.

Wait, was that not what you were trying to say?  Because it sounds very much like exactly what you said.

Insulting people who already have frayed nerves from waiting months and months with very few updates is not going to make them any more patient or cooperative.

[GenericHero05]

I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.

Exactly, but...

I want a feast
I want a bean feast
Cream buns and doughnuts and fruitcake with no nuts so good you could go nuts.

[Burnt Toast]

It has been explained numerous times by numerous people though that aside from... "things are progressing" nothing else can be said due to NDA. Yet people still feel they are owed more information...because... hell I have no idea why they think that actually. Would they rather someone break the NDA and have the deal fail...because that's really the only other option.... Asking adults to have patience shouldn't have to be said every day to calm people down...but here we are doing just that

Yes, I very much agree that wanting to be kept in the loop and up to date on a subject that is very much near and dear to our hearts is exactly the same thing as being a whiny entitled crybaby throwing a temper tantrum.

Wait, was that not what you were trying to say?  Because it sounds very much like exactly what you said.

Insulting people who already have frayed nerves from waiting months and months with very few updates is not going to make them any more patient or cooperative.

[pinballdave]

Exactly, but...

I want a feast
I want a bean feast
Cream buns and doughnuts and fruitcake with no nuts so good you could go nuts.

Bean feast?! Egads, don't light a match

[Illusionss]

Yes, I very much agree that wanting to be kept in the loop and up to date on a subject that is very much near and dear to our hearts is exactly the same thing as being a whiny entitled crybaby throwing a temper tantrum.

Uhm.... that is not what was said.

But even if it were, what part of THEY ARE UNDER AN NDA AGREEMENT do you not grok?

They can't tell me, you or anyone what is going on. Due to legalities. If they disregard the NDA, guess what? NOBODY GETS ANY COOKIES.

Call it an insult if you must, however its not an insult BUT A STATEMENT OF BASIC FACT. Hel-LO?! IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE DEAL, YOU GET NADA AS FAR AS INFO. How can it be made more plain?!

Let these people do what they do! And be patient! its hard, I know! But we got to do it!

[Thunder Glove]

Uhm.... that is not what was said.

It wasn't?  Let's look at that quote again:

I must say, the senses of entitlement I feel from other players really surprises me; its as if some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that screaming "I WANT IT NOW!" like so many Veruca Salts does NOT, in fact, guarantee instant action. Its just spoilt-bratty behavior and its actually counterproductive.

So explicitly mentioning "entitlement" and explicitly comparing people to Veruca Salt throwing a temper tantrum doesn't mean that you're calling some players entitled or comparing them to a spoiled kid throwing a temper tantrum?

But even if it were, what part of THEY ARE UNDER AN NDA AGREEMENT do you not grok?

Who said I didn't "grok" it?  Now you're making assumptions about what I do and don't understand.

They can't tell me, you or anyone what is going on. Due to legalities. If they disregard the NDA, guess what? NOBODY GETS ANY COOKIES.

Call it an insult if you must, however its not an insult BUT A STATEMENT OF BASIC FACT. Hel-LO?! IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE DEAL, YOU GET NADA AS FAR AS INFO. How can it be made more plain?!

Let these people do what they do! And be patient! its hard, I know! But we got to do it!

I suppose next you're going to tell me that making unwarranted assumptions, a condescending "HEL-LO!" and oversimplification is not insulting, either.  Well, if you say so.

Now go read what I said again: insulting people is not going to make them any more patient.