Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7595237 times)

slickriptide

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28760 on: October 23, 2018, 02:32:04 AM »
They had to know that would cause a deep wound in those fans that wouldn't likely heal any time soon.

Korean video game culture is very different from North American video game culture. I think they expected us all to get over it and move on to the next game. That's what your average Korean gamer would have done.

Then, years later, they say, "Okay, fine" and they attempt to cater to the loyal customers of CoH and instead of gratitude they get vitriol. At this point, I'm pretty sure the NCSoft marketing people have thrown up their hands and concluded that Americans are weird.

In short - I think they DON'T know, and certainly they don't understand or empathize. The good news is that if anyone ever does come up with an emulator, I'm confident that NCSoft is just going to shake their heads and ignore it as a lost cause.

All this is just IMO, of course. I'm no more clairvoyant than anyone else, and the argument can be made that MxM was in part intended to keep the City Of Heroes brand and trademark active in case of a challenge of some sort or a need to illustrate that it still has a certain value.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:37:50 AM by slickriptide »

slickriptide

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28761 on: October 23, 2018, 02:45:12 AM »
I think that it's also worth noting that for most American gamers the eventual reaction would be to get over it and move on. CoH players are uniquely loyal to their game.

I've speculated whether this comes down to the average CoH player being someone who puts a higher-than-average value on "fair play" and "justice". The players view NCSoft's cancellation of CoH as "unjust" rather than "just business" and that colors their feelings about NCSoft and its products for many of those players.

Tyger42

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28762 on: October 23, 2018, 03:14:00 AM »
Then, years later, they say, "Okay, fine" and they attempt to cater to the loyal customers of CoH and instead of gratitude they get vitriol. At this point, I'm pretty sure the NCSoft marketing people have thrown up their hands and concluded that Americans are weird.

Even considering cultural differences, I don't see how they could have thought tossing a couple of the signature characters into a completely unrelated game that was a blatant attempt to jump onto the MOBA bandwagon would have made us happy. It was at best an insulting attempt... We didn't want the characters back. We wanted our GAME back. The game they threw them into was nothing like what they'd taken away from us.

Mister Hassenpheffer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28763 on: October 23, 2018, 05:41:41 AM »
I think that it's also worth noting that for most American gamers the eventual reaction would be to get over it and move on. CoH players are uniquely loyal to their game.

I've speculated whether this comes down to the average CoH player being someone who puts a higher-than-average value on "fair play" and "justice". The players view NCSoft's cancellation of CoH as "unjust" rather than "just business" and that colors their feelings about NCSoft and its products for many of those players.

I don't know how many games were/are out there where one could say, craft a very close representation of one's soul, abilities and all, but from my understanding CoH was one of them.

That taps into a personal connection with players and people with that connection can't just "get over it" it doesn't work that way. It's more than just a digital asset. A time ago there was a strong voice in the back of my mind that said, "Someone understood that and used it against us for personal reasons"

Around the time of sunset I was running with a very closed circle and they were very much tapped into the cool kids grapevine. They were good people, they helped me build my characters, they were number crunchers, they knew the ins and outs of the game. We cut up and we had a good time. I should also point out, they did know about delicate things like certain bugs and they never lied to me before...that being said: Tin foil hat time.

Within that circle: Heavy speculation and discussion pointed towards all the denizens of our realm were nothing more and continue to be nothing more than collateral damage from a very bitter divorce in the higher ups at NcSoft and Nexon. That's what it lead up to, the meltdowns from the budget wasting going on at Paragon Studios only hastened this event.

If any of that is true- Because of the nature of this divorce; There is honor involved, There is hate involved. Which leads to wounding the former owner through us. "Your former playerbase will forever hate you now and that gives (name) the last laugh"...    Bitter. Divorce.      Tin foil hat /off 

I have my doubts. These days it just doesn't seem 100% accurate. At the time I was willing to subscribe to it because like many others, I was dealing with a horrible wound and grasping at anything that made sense. Those reassuring voices in that vent group have been silent for a long time now. They don't even log in anymore.

It doesn't really matter. The game is gone. No one is getting it back. No one is getting over it. No one is forgiving NcSoft and NcSoft continues to be the kiss of death for games even via proxy.

Whoever wanted things to turn out this way... got their way.

The healthiest behaviors that one can embrace is to stay cool and connected to the community, root for the successors and do all to support Paragon Chat.

Peace.

Kruhl Sentru

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28764 on: October 23, 2018, 09:07:59 AM »
I've been studying game design for decades now.  Fact is, just like the rest of our society, things are getting worse over time.  Part of that, is an increasing disrespect for the developers, or really anyone, from the higher ups at various producers, like NCSoft.  They want money, and they want it now.  They don't care about the quality of the game as much as how much it makes them.  They don't care about more than keeping the community paying them more money.  And, to be honest, they couldn't design a game to save their life.  That's why they hire others to do it.  But, because they have wealth, they believe that they know better.  It's not new, but it's a lot worse now.  It's not just NCSoft, it's all over the place.

CoX may or may not come back, but NCSoft won't do it because they love their fanbase.  They'd only let it come back if they felt it would help them in some way.  I'm not sure that it would, though.  You kill a popular game in it's prime, and it's going to have a major backlash.  And, I just don't see NCSoft as being willing to even so much as admit they were wrong.  And no, CoX was not hurting for players.  I've seen games with a max of maybe 10 people online at once still be able to keep going, sometimes for years.  Then, there's games where everything gets shut down, fast.  And then there was the mess with CoX.  =\

Paragon Studios never really mismanaged their funds.  You want an example of mismanaging funds?  Check this out:



Yup, FireFall's team (or more accurately, Mark Kern) spent a huge amount of money on that bus - $3,000,000, to be more precise.  I doubt a few iffy rumors about Paragon Studios holds up to that.  XD

Mister Hassenpheffer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28765 on: October 23, 2018, 11:56:37 AM »
Oh good lord everything about that bus just screams intervention...

But yeah, you are right. As time has gone on, iffy rumors are iffy.

I wonder what that bus is doing today.

I hate that bus.

Abraxus

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28766 on: October 23, 2018, 01:23:07 PM »
On of the former Devs is a member of the SEGs Discord channel, and he has said that the allegations of money wasting were BS.  I would tend to believe him over anything NCSoft had to say on the subject.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28767 on: October 23, 2018, 05:18:25 PM »
On of the former Devs is a member of the SEGs Discord channel, and he has said that the allegations of money wasting were BS.  I would tend to believe him over anything NCSoft had to say on the subject.
Didn't Paragon Studios have at least one other project that they were working on that wasn't, at that time, earning money for the all mighty NCSoft?

I know CoH wasn't PS's only project.
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

Nobody really cares if you're miserable, so you might as well be happy. - Cynthia Nelms

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28768 on: October 24, 2018, 01:25:36 PM »
Seems like this was covered in the most recent kerfluffle with the anonymous source slandering paragon and the rebuttals. 

I will find a link but I am thinking survival mmo and new heroes game.

I will edit this when I get back
Edit :
https://amp.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/comments/9b4iaz/wildstar_dev_comments_on_closing_of_city_of_heroes/

Didn't Paragon Studios have at least one other project that they were working on that wasn't, at that time, earning money for the all mighty NCSoft?

I know CoH wasn't PS's only project.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28769 on: October 24, 2018, 06:53:31 PM »
Seems like this was covered in the most recent kerfluffle with the anonymous source slandering paragon and the rebuttals. 

I will find a link but I am thinking survival mmo and new heroes game.

I will edit this when I get back
Edit :
https://amp.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/comments/9b4iaz/wildstar_dev_comments_on_closing_of_city_of_heroes/

I'm not talking about those allegations. I mean, they had one (or more) projects that they were working on, green-lit by NCSoft. Then NCSoft looked at their books and said "Hmm, Paragon Studios isn't raking in the dough that we want form them, despite the fact that we green-lit one (or more) projects for them to do which will cause a money sink until the project(s) is (are) actually released years from now. Which is normal for any studio creating something. however, since we aren't normal and expect sh..tuff to be pulled out of their...uh...thin air, we'll just have to close them down."

That is, of course, a paraphrase of a thought that I imagine some upper exec in NCSoft had. Whether they actually had that thought or not is up for debate.

I cast no aspersions on Paragon Studios for the closure.

I blame NCSoft.
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

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jessejame

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28770 on: October 24, 2018, 08:39:00 PM »
Don't worry guys, when I'm rich one day I'll just assemble the old dev crew and make an even better city of heroes which is exactly what it'll be called. And it won't be under funded or under staffed. For now, the battle with evil has been lost but the war is far from over. And when I get super rich I'll buy ncsoft and delete it.

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28771 on: October 25, 2018, 12:20:59 PM »
@Twisted agreed.  I just was stating there were two projects in the works, what they were reported as and where the information cane from.

@jessejames - my fantasy too. I really hope city of titans gets the character creator out the door by end of year and one of the games are alpha by end of next.  All wishes at this point but I really miss a game.  Project Gorgon has been fun but heroes are better.

Ultimate15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28772 on: October 25, 2018, 04:09:41 PM »
In short - I think they DON'T know, and certainly they don't understand or empathize. The good news is that if anyone ever does come up with an emulator, I'm confident that NCSoft is just going to shake their heads and ignore it as a lost cause.


I think they knew what they were doing when they pulled the plug, honestly. They've done this before to other games, and they'll continue to do it because that's the type of company they are. They just didn't care about whatever consequences would come because of it (at least, via their western gaming market) because it was - as you have noted - a business decision. NCSoft is the type of company that isn't afraid to cut off one of it's own limbs for the sake of the rest of their body, because a) we can just grow another limb that could be stronger, faster, better, etc., b.) we have other more useful 'limbs' that can compensate for the lost one and keep us afloat, and c.) it was our 'left arm' anyway and we didn't need it as much as the right arm.

I would sincerely hope that they would turn a blind eye to something like SEGS and not take legal action, but I dunno man... they've proven to be really untrustworthy, and somewhat unpredictable? It would be VERY petty and 'small potatoes' for them to do anything, but who knows. I don't trust them. So there's that.

I think that it's also worth noting that for most American gamers the eventual reaction would be to get over it and move on. CoH players are uniquely loyal to their game.

I've speculated whether this comes down to the average CoH player being someone who puts a higher-than-average value on "fair play" and "justice". The players view NCSoft's cancellation of CoH as "unjust" rather than "just business" and that colors their feelings about NCSoft and its products for many of those players.

I think there are a lot of American players who have grown the same type of attachment to other games as we have to COH. And those other players would be just as upset about their game dying as we were when COH died - even after however many years later. I'm not sold on the idea that this type of devoted, community-wide allegiance is something that's only specific to COH. Granted, I think the COH community was far greater and better than any other gaming community for a plethora of other reasons (I won't go into it here)... but I don't think this is something that makes us 'special'.

...And THAT is something NCSoft doesn't understand about the western market in general. It really exemplifies the fundamental difference in how they view decisions like this - not just from a 'profit' standpoint, but from a humanistic one as well. We're on different planets with them when it comes to things like ethics, in that ethics seems to take a back seat when it comes to what direction their business goes in. 
Viva la Virtue!

ukaserex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28773 on: October 25, 2018, 04:32:32 PM »
Has anyone seen the Tweet from Segs? https://twitter.com/segscode/status/1055411583298486272
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Ultimate15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28774 on: October 25, 2018, 04:57:09 PM »
Has anyone seen the Tweet from Segs? https://twitter.com/segscode/status/1055411583298486272

Exciting!

Honestly, SEGS is what I'm the most pumped about haha. More so than any of the other successor projects.
Viva la Virtue!

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28775 on: October 25, 2018, 07:53:00 PM »
Exciting!

Honestly, SEGS is what I'm the most pumped about haha. More so than any of the other successor projects.

And not *just* because you wanna make juvenile SEGS puns?

jessejame

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28776 on: October 25, 2018, 09:19:47 PM »
 I take it segs is redoing the frame work to where it's much more workable compared to the original coding? Any idea if we'll be able to play along while they update the game or if it's just going to wipe progress? And lastly I remember reading something about new content being created? Would someone please confirm or deny this and elaborate? I tried making an account on there to chat but I kept running into errors.

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28777 on: October 25, 2018, 09:29:51 PM »
I go to https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJSNowM62kC5tI2F3NXIi6A for all my gratuitous SEGS videos

jessejame

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28778 on: October 25, 2018, 11:07:36 PM »
Thank you vee, I'm very much looking forward to getting on again.

Ultimate15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28779 on: October 25, 2018, 11:58:12 PM »
Viva la Virtue!