New efforts!

[LadyVamp]

I think we've just crossed into territory that few dare tread - what is insensitivity vs. racism?

Bonus points for racist stereotype...

Grand Theft Auto has always always always tread that line - and not once been taken to task for it -

(As far as I'm aware...).

So, I wonder - can the "theory" Arcana raised in regards to iD4 also be considered racist?

Because "Aliens"??

Discuss...

And what you choose to call them?  undocumented extra terrestrials?  I'd call them figments of a writer's imagination since they only exist in a novel.

RockStar games has been taken to task for GTA.  It just never got any real media attention.  I know at least one attempt for sexism and one for racism.

[Sinistar]

Hmm, didn't he call GTA a murder simulator?   

That guy was nuts, even claiming to have brain scans that proved games induce violence.

I remember once he sent pictures to the courts of blown up buildings and claimed that is what would happen to society if he wasn't listened to.  Legend is that the US Marshals came knocking on his door to explain a few facts of life about that.

[LateNights]

And what you choose to call them?  undocumented extra terrestrials?  I'd call them figments of a writer's imagination since they only exist in a novel.

RockStar games has been taken to task for GTA.  It just never got any real media attention.  I know at least one attempt for sexism and one for racism.

Sorry...

I should have specified "sane" in regards to litigation @ Rockstar.

P.s at least in the case of "Speedy" - I personally (young white male), never considered him to be "racist"  - at least until the point was made well after the "fact"...

An "aside" - I'm an Australian - "your" (US), system is different from "ours", well before any "liberal" bias...

"Our" version of GTA was even more so censored than the U.S version as I recall - well before the influence of Jack Thompson, who is a literal "nobody" in Australia...

Curious, did you forget I was an Australian?

Because "facts" are somewhat "different" down under.

Or whatever you call "them"...

[skoogmik]

On Speedy:

A couple decades ago, a Hispanic gentleman, in the apartment below me, sang along with this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3zNhlm1zFQ

[LateNights]

On Speedy:

A couple decades ago, a Hispanic gentleman, in the apartment below me, sang along with this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3zNhlm1zFQ

Would you believe me if I told you it was banned in my country due to copyright law?

True story.

Or is it?!?

[LadyVamp]

Sorry...

I should have specified "sane" in regards to litigation @ Rockstar.

P.s at least in the case of "Speedy" - I personally (young white male), never considered him to be "racist"  - at least until the point was made well after the "fact"...

An "aside" - I'm an Australian - "your" (US), system is different from "ours", well before any "liberal" bias...

"Our" version of GTA was even more so censored than the U.S version as I recall - well before the influence of Jack Thompson, who is a literal "nobody" in Australia...

Curious, did you forget I was an Australian?

Because "facts" are somewhat "different" down under.

Or whatever you call "them"...

Actually, I didn't know you were from Australia nor did I know you were a young, white male.  Perhaps you have stated so in prior posts which I probably just skimmed.

I never stated where I was from.

And what "facts" are you referring to?

[MM3squints]

Actually, I didn't know you were from Australia nor did I know you were a young, white male.  Perhaps you have stated so in prior posts which I probably just skimmed.

I never stated where I was from.

And what "facts" are you referring to?

From reading his post, how he uses facts is base on the social norms and demographics that influence the stereotype from region to region. This means in the US Speedy was perceived racist to some due to the higher Mexican population and the United States sharing a border with the Mexico. Even though there is nothing racist about Speedy and Speedy was actual portrayed as a Zoro type character where he always outsmarted the Gringo (Sylvester the Cat) I believe the racist accusation was majority of Speedy's friends, where portrayed like Slowpoke Rodriguez, it showed Mexican as slow, lazy and needing something else to do their jobs (in this case ironically Speedy) or if provoked they will just shoot you (this was an actual scene in the cartoons)

In Australia where LateNights is from, there isn't a high Mexican population so when he saw Speedy, he just saw a character that was not only a Mexican (not putting words in his mouth), but as portrayed in the cartoon a mouse that always outsmarted whatever opponent Speedy went against (Sylvester, Daffy, etc) The only reason why he "noticed" Speedy was perceived racist is after someone else told him that is how the people of US and Mexico sees Speedy (even though a lot of people don't)

"Facts" are always funny in the way Late Night uses it. While facts can mean something binary where 1s and 0s will give you a predetermined outcome, how Late Night is using the word is the perception of the fact, based on the environment it was presented (again I am not trying to put words in your mouth but that is my understanding from your post)

Edited: Took out the last example

[Taceus Jiwede]

Some more story about where they came from and how their society was organized might have been interesting to know.  The book probably even covered some of that.  The president certainly could have said more about them.

But then let me ask you this:  does it really matter why the guy on the beach wants your spot and is willing to take it from you by force?  Not really.  To carry that analogy, he came, he saw, he tried to kick our butts: We hit him hard enough were it counts to stop his ticker...permanently.

Bit late on a response but I suppose you are right.  The background and lore of the aliens is somewhat irrelevant, while it may add a small amount of interest to the story it would remove that aspect of "It doesn't matter why they are, all that matters is they are attacking us."  Its the attitude of "It doesn't matter why they started it we just know we are going to finish it" kind of writing which I can also appreciate I guess when looking at it from that point of view

[LaughingAlex]

I do wonder, if anything affects a players personality, it isn't the violence, but I sometimes look at the reward mechanics and how some games often have a skinner box side to them...and the story of the game of how the player is treated.

Games that tend to be skinner box in nature are often played well past the point that they are still fun, this results in bitter players still playing, in an online setting, they may take it out on others for no reason.

Some mmorpgs treat the player as "special" as if they are the only thing which matters and no one else is really a player.  I've been wondering lately how this could affect a players psyche, someone on facebook lately spoke of cyber-bullying in SWTOR.  I was quickly reminded of a recent issue in which a player originating from CO displayed a very unhealthy amount of narcissism/attention hogging that many in pocket D had ignored(won't speak the name).  Then I ended up thinking of how that games writing treated player characters like a mary sue; like they were special, how npc's worshipped people in that game for no reason ect, and how it's latest grinds are so unhealthy.

Even not looking at either two games, it made me wonder if these factors in game writing and reward mechanics actually breeds bad behavior among players more than the violence in games ever could.  It makes me wish mmorpgs would, well, innovate for once and stop relying on skinner boxes. Anyone's thoughts?

[Vee]

Wait, there are things outside a Skinner box other than more Skinner boxes? Sounds fishy to me.

[Twisted Toon]

Wait, there are things outside a Skinner box other than more Skinner boxes? Sounds fishy to me.

I'm sure that some people looked outside the skinner boxes and saw a big vasty nothingness


...and it made them go all wobly in the head.

[LadyVamp]

I do wonder, if anything affects a players personality, it isn't the violence, but I sometimes look at the reward mechanics and how some games often have a skinner box side to them...and the story of the game of how the player is treated.

Games that tend to be skinner box in nature are often played well past the point that they are still fun, this results in bitter players still playing, in an online setting, they may take it out on others for no reason.

Some mmorpgs treat the player as "special" as if they are the only thing which matters and no one else is really a player.  I've been wondering lately how this could affect a players psyche, someone on facebook lately spoke of cyber-bullying in SWTOR.  I was quickly reminded of a recent issue in which a player originating from CO displayed a very unhealthy amount of narcissism/attention hogging that many in pocket D had ignored(won't speak the name).  Then I ended up thinking of how that games writing treated player characters like a mary sue; like they were special, how npc's worshipped people in that game for no reason ect, and how it's latest grinds are so unhealthy.

Even not looking at either two games, it made me wonder if these factors in game writing and reward mechanics actually breeds bad behavior among players more than the violence in games ever could.  It makes me wish mmorpgs would, well, innovate for once and stop relying on skinner boxes. Anyone's thoughts?

What came to mind when I read your post was the monologue spoken by Al Pacino about Eddie Barzoon - "God's special little creature" from Devil's Advocate.  I absolutely think games that treat each player as special for no reason really do have a far heavier impact than the violence that is often blamed for anti-social behavior.

Here's a link but don't hold the profanity against me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juozvWJsrGg

[pinballdave]

What came to mind when I read your post was the monologue spoken by Al Pacino about Eddie Barzoon - "God's special little creature" from Devil's Advocate.  I absolutely think games that treat each player as special for no reason really do have a far heavier impact than the violence that is often blamed for anti-social behavior.

Here's a link but don't hold the profanity against me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juozvWJsrGg

Be excellent at what is good, be innocent of evil.

BTW, I thought the Devil's Advocate was well-written, just a little rough for my taste, but very good. I don't really expect the devil to be a nice upstanding adversary.

[LaughingAlex]

Be excellent at what is good, be innocent of evil.

BTW, I thought the Devil's Advocate was well-written, just a little rough for my taste, but very good. I don't really expect the devil to be a nice upstanding adversary.

I hadn't gotten to watch it but, my favorite stories these days are the ones where the main villain is rather up-standing.  Such as game of thrones, you have(without spoiling to much) the lannisters.  Upstanding nobles, very rich, but the "Always pay there debts" means two things.  To the simple minded, it's "I borrow money I'll pay it off".  To other noble houses it means: "Cross me even slightly, I'll kill you and everyone close to you".  The lannisters prove to be in the earlier books, to be the most under-handed and corrupt house.

But it's kind of based on a lot of noble families throughout the centuries who develop such behavior.  For example, Caligula, was allowed to bark orders to much older professional soldiers.  He was raised to believe he was special and destined to be a super amazing person.  As he got a little older, his father was assassinated and he was adopted by a very corrupt and perverted Tiberius.  So Caligula spent a LOT of time being corrupted by this already mentally disturbed emperor while having early treatment that he was super special.  This would lead to one of the most narcissistic leaders the roman world ever knew.  So much so people call a corrupt leader "The caligula".

But so to was Alexander the Great.  Every town he conquered he put his name on it only slightly changed, "Alexandria".  There were dozens of "Alexandria"'s in his time before he died of, likely assassination via poisoning.  Anytime someone criticized him he had them executed.  His ego was very fragile for a man of such, lets be honest, military brilliance.  But just as Caligula was raised to be special so was Alexander the Great.  Both men's mothers wanted tremendous power and wanted to make sure there own kid was king/emperor and both had super early expectations of being super special. 

The only difference between the two was Alexander the Great lasted long enough to have a goal and became a very powerful military leader thanks to his initial experience in the army shaping him.  Caligula was raised by a reclusive pervert and was killed only about three years after he became emperor and people found him to be an insane pervert.

[Tubbius]

It is a Tuesday.

I am logging on here and peeking around.

I see no news.  :(

Well, off to work.

[Safehouse]

It is a Tuesday.

I am logging on here and peeking around.

I see no news.  :(

Well, off to work.

Same :(

At least we have Paragon Avenger's fake news updates to keep us company, haha.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1eRO8TzStIg/hqdefault.jpg
Sorry folks. We will return to our regularly scheduled program at this time.

[CrimsonCapacitor]

Same :(

At least we have Paragon Avenger's fake news updates to keep us company, haha.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1eRO8TzStIg/hqdefault.jpg
Sorry folks. We will return to our regularly scheduled program at this time.

If you're going to post a radio picture, shouldn't you use one from a video game?   ;)

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1.theportalwiki.net%2Fimg%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb4%2FPortal_Radio.png%2F200px-Portal_Radio.png

[Thunder Glove]

If you're going to post a radio picture, shouldn't you use one from a video game?   ;)

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1.theportalwiki.net%2Fimg%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb4%2FPortal_Radio.png%2F200px-Portal_Radio.png

That one only plays one song.

[Dev7on]

Am I the only one who kinda feel emotional right now?! Because I really want to play City of Heroes.....  :'(

[Arcana]

He never called out GTA for racism specifically - in spite of the obvious stereotypes that Rockstar played on throughout the series.

Jack Thompson said so many things, in so many venues, under so many different contexts, across so many years, I'm not sure anyone not researching a biography of Jack Thompson could know whether this was true or not.