New efforts!

[Joshex]

it is cool :), I thought it was Iron Wolf that said it was Nate after he went public. But I could be wrong though. I agree that Nate di go back to work on his game, which I do not mind, must have something to do while waiting for NC Softs call. Now that you mentioned it, it did seem like he was trying to get some information. hopefully we will be able to fly in Paragon city, maybe in 2017 :)

I actually agree with soulresonance in his newer post and signature, something will happen this year. It all sees to be panning out that way with the way things have been going with the negotiations.

"trying to get some information" right now, would be too late in the game and would probably just cause trouble. I mean yeah, you /can/ make people slip up and reveal things while answering questions that are phrased just right so as to not ask directly about anything under NDA but require a legal truthful response including such information. That's how I used to operate when I worked 'unofficially' as a game company spy, it's much easier to pry information out though from the inside. I have no position at NCSoft, neither does Nate so it wouldn't be as easy for even Nate to make someone (who works at NCSoft) slip-up. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it usually gets caught/ignored when it's coming from an outside source.

and again at this point, it would be useless and just complicate matters or make them take even longer.

remember, the last comment we got from the THeM was similar to 'things are moving along albeit slowly, stop asking', the important part of it seems the last bit "Stop asking".

yeah, of course NCSoft has pre-written responses that their lawyers carefully developed to deal with questions about things still under NDA, but everytime we ask it goes on record, and this will be brought to the negotiation team's knowledge in some capacity, at which the obvious questions are "is this person one of yours? do we need to be concerned? are you leaking info about the negotiations? why did we get 54 emails all asking about this?" and that can slow things down and create headaches for the people involved.

it's better to just leave them be and let them work it out, though we hear nothing.

If a tree falls, and there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound? how do you know that?

Similarly, though no one has heard anything about the deal other than those involved (who are obviously not saying anything to us) we can be certain that things have/are been/being said, and things have/are been/being done. Otherwise we would hear something and it would not be pleasant.

So if you are worried or restless, take a moment if you will, to break open your imagination and imagine positive things that might be being done/said by the parties involved, for all we know they could be true or not far off but so long as they are positive they conform to the lack of information we do have.

if you really must do something, maybe we could all write support letters/emails "Hi NCSoft, we don't know whats going on with City of heroes, but you guys are great for whatever you are planning to do with it, and I can't wait to be your customer again." or something like that.

Do Not Perform the thing the text in red says, it was a bad idea!

[darkgob]

if you really must do something, maybe we could all write support letters/emails "Hi NCSoft, we don't know whats going on with City of heroes, but you guys are great for whatever you are planning to do with it, and I can't wait to be your customer again." or something like that.

Please do not do this or anything else.  You are not involved in this process.  You have never been involved in this process.  Please stop trying to shoehorn your way into this process.

[Joshex]

Please do not do this or anything else.  You are not involved in this process.  You have never been involved in this process.  Please stop trying to shoehorn your way into this process.

and there we have it, "NO" "that's a bad idea joshex, don't do it joshex".

so, we will not do that. even that was a bad idea. the part of that post of mine before that still stands though.

[Twisted Toon]

Still better than the death in episode 7 of you know who...

When did Voldemort make it into Star Wars?

[Arcana]

When obi wan dies you feel it is for a good reason.

At the moment it happens, Obi Wan dies for no good reason the film itself gives.  I don't recall thinking at the time I first saw it that it was purposeful.  The purpose comes from context that doesn't exist at that moment.  I can't speak to what you were feeling at the time, but I don't know why you would have been feeling it.   In fact, if the film actually signaled at the time that there was a higher purpose to it then it would make Luke's reactions afterward odd and undermine its own twist at the end - and at the time, it was a twist for Obi Wan to return to the picture.  Obi Wan encouraging Luke to use the Force in his final attack on the Death Star in effect is the keystone of the entire rest of the series.

[Arcana]

I never believed that Obiwan Kenobi died from the slash from Darth Vader. Vader himself was puzzled, looking for the body in the robes.

If he did not, it makes Obi Wan's statement to Vader strange: "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."  Later in Return of the Jedi, it seems clear to me that Yoda becomes a Force ghost when he dies, he doesn't just will himself to vanish.  Vader is puzzled for the same reason we're supposed to be puzzled: he has never seen a Jedi evaporate and become a Force-ghost before.

I think there's also a narrative context within the entire Star Wars double-trilogy (sextology?) that it isn't some special Force power of the Jedi that lets them transcend death: if so then Palpatine is technically proven correct that there's some special Force magic that can conquer death.  Obi Wan accepts death and in doing so becomes something greater than a Jedi Knight with a light saber: he becomes a teacher that can nurture and educate Luke.

[Brigadine]

At the moment it happens, Obi Wan dies for no good reason the film itself gives.  I don't recall thinking at the time I first saw it that it was purposeful.  The purpose comes from context that doesn't exist at that moment.  I can't speak to what you were feeling at the time, but I don't know why you would have been feeling it.   In fact, if the film actually signaled at the time that there was a higher purpose to it then it would make Luke's reactions afterward odd and undermine its own twist at the end - and at the time, it was a twist for Obi Wan to return to the picture.  Obi Wan encouraging Luke to use the Force in his final attack on the Death Star in effect is the keystone of the entire rest of the series.

You see him glance at Luke then allow himself to be killed. Pair that with the quote about "strike me down and I will become more powerful than you could ever dream of." You sense that he was doing it to help Luke.

The death of you know who in ep 7 can't be meaningful in that way cause... Not a force user.

[Joshex]

At the moment it happens, Obi Wan dies for no good reason the film itself gives.  I don't recall thinking at the time I first saw it that it was purposeful.  The purpose comes from context that doesn't exist at that moment.  I can't speak to what you were feeling at the time, but I don't know why you would have been feeling it.   In fact, if the film actually signaled at the time that there was a higher purpose to it then it would make Luke's reactions afterward odd and undermine its own twist at the end - and at the time, it was a twist for Obi Wan to return to the picture.  Obi Wan encouraging Luke to use the Force in his final attack on the Death Star in effect is the keystone of the entire rest of the series.

Search the term "Spectre" and scroll down past all the james bond junk and horror film misrepresentations and read about it in a encyclopedic setting.

it's a ghost, but it's not dead, it's not undead, it's more like a mental projection of ones self that gains physical properties but is technically invincible. it's like the Decoy in the Illusion troller powerset except it can actually deal damage. it's like when Stan transcends reality in South Park.

now if you don't call that more powerful than Vader could imagine at that time given his stupefied reaction to Obiwan's disappearance, well.. then.. I have no idea what to say to convince you.

[Soul Resonance]

I actually agree with soulresonance in his newer post and signature, something will happen this year. It all sees to be panning out that way with the way things have been going with the negotiations.

"trying to get some information" right now, would be too late in the game and would probably just cause trouble. I mean yeah, you /can/ make people slip up and reveal things while answering questions that are phrased just right so as to not ask directly about anything under NDA but require a legal truthful response including such information. That's how I used to operate when I worked 'unofficially' as a game company spy, it's much easier to pry information out though from the inside. I have no position at NCSoft, neither does Nate so it wouldn't be as easy for even Nate to make someone (who works at NCSoft) slip-up. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it usually gets caught/ignored when it's coming from an outside source.

and again at this point, it would be useless and just complicate matters or make them take even longer.

remember, the last comment we got from the THeM was similar to 'things are moving along albeit slowly, stop asking', the important part of it seems the last bit "Stop asking".

yeah, of course NCSoft has pre-written responses that their lawyers carefully developed to deal with questions about things still under NDA, but everytime we ask it goes on record, and this will be brought to the negotiation team's knowledge in some capacity, at which the obvious questions are "is this person one of yours? do we need to be concerned? are you leaking info about the negotiations? why did we get 54 emails all asking about this?" and that can slow things down and create headaches for the people involved.

it's better to just leave them be and let them work it out, though we hear nothing.

If a tree falls, and there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound? how do you know that?

Similarly, though no one has heard anything about the deal other than those involved (who are obviously not saying anything to us) we can be certain that things have/are been/being said, and things have/are been/being done. Otherwise we would hear something and it would not be pleasant.

So if you are worried or restless, take a moment if you will, to break open your imagination and imagine positive things that might be being done/said by the parties involved, for all we know they could be true or not far off but so long as they are positive they conform to the lack of information we do have.

Do Not Perform the thing the text in red says, it was a bad idea!

Besides the email part being done, the rest is 100% true. For all you who are worried, think positive :D

[Vee]

y'know there's a perfectly good spoiler button for all of you to make your thinly veiled 'death of you know who' comments with.

wasn't there some line in 2 or 3 where yoda says something about an advanced technique with obi wan? not sure if i'm remembering that from one of those or from somewhere else but there's no way i'm watching those to check. I'm remembering from somewhere that the force ghost thing is a special technique that qui gon didn't know. could have just been internets speculation about why he didn't disappear.

[Brigadine]

y'know there's a perfectly good spoiler button for all of you to make your thinly veiled 'death of you know who' comments with.

wasn't there some line in 2 or 3 where yoda says something about an advanced technique with obi wan? not sure if i'm remembering that from one of those or from somewhere else but there's no way i'm watching those to check. I'm remembering from somewhere that the force ghost thing is a special technique that qui gon didn't know. could have just been internets speculation about why he didn't disappear.

He might have learned it after death. Its at the end of episode 3 that yoda sends obi wan to go train with qui gon again.

[Arcana]

wasn't there some line in 2 or 3 where yoda says something about an advanced technique with obi wan? not sure if i'm remembering that from one of those or from somewhere else but there's no way i'm watching those to check. I'm remembering from somewhere that the force ghost thing is a special technique that qui gon didn't know. could have just been internets speculation about why he didn't disappear.

At the end of episode three Yoda tells Obi Wan that he intends to train him on how to "commune" with Qui Gon, and its implied in episode two that Yoda himself has figured out how to do this.  The big question, of course, is how Qui Gon himself figured out how to remain after his death.

I'm not sure what the reigning internet theory is, but my own guess is that it has something to do with Qui Gon himself being special in that he seems unconventional as a Jedi: he seems well respected (by Yoda at least) and yet somewhat of a maverick as Jedi go.  More driven by emotion and intuition in some respects.  And he has connections to two of the most powerful Jedi: Yoda and Anakin.  Qui Gon doesn't become a true Force ghost in the same way Yoda does, but he does linger on in some fashion.  And then its Yoda that takes the next leap and realizes it is possible to become one with the Force and still leave something of yourself behind and teaches Obi Wan.

I don't think it is really a "technique" or rather I don't think the technique is how to become a Force ghost specifically.  I think the technique Obi Wan and Yoda have gotten good at is becoming one with the Force when they communicate with Qui Gon and perhaps others.  It is that state of mind that allows them to become Force ghosts when they die; it is what Obi Wan does when he allows Darth Vader to kill him.

[Arcana]

Search the term "Spectre" and scroll down past all the james bond junk and horror film misrepresentations and read about it in a encyclopedic setting.

it's a ghost, but it's not dead, it's not undead, it's more like a mental projection of ones self that gains physical properties but is technically invincible. it's like the Decoy in the Illusion troller powerset except it can actually deal damage. it's like when Stan transcends reality in South Park.

now if you don't call that more powerful than Vader could imagine at that time given his stupefied reaction to Obiwan's disappearance, well.. then.. I have no idea what to say to convince you.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=x111.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2FChewbacca-Defense.jpg

[blacksly]

At the moment it happens, Obi Wan dies for no good reason the film itself gives.  I don't recall thinking at the time I first saw it that it was purposeful.  The purpose comes from context that doesn't exist at that moment.  I can't speak to what you were feeling at the time, but I don't know why you would have been feeling it.   In fact, if the film actually signaled at the time that there was a higher purpose to it then it would make Luke's reactions afterward odd and undermine its own twist at the end - and at the time, it was a twist for Obi Wan to return to the picture.  Obi Wan encouraging Luke to use the Force in his final attack on the Death Star in effect is the keystone of the entire rest of the series.

Obi-Wan's death seemed obvious and necessary to me at the time. He was the teacher figure in the hero's story who puts the hero on the path to greatness, but because he was an active hero himself, he had to get out of the way so that the new hero's story could be told. If he had taught or encouraged Luke and remained behind, he could have lived. But he could not remain in the story, still active and powerful, and still have Luke become a great hero. I did not know that there was additional meaning in his death, how he died, and to whom, but the fact that he died was not at all surprising. The old warrior/teacher sacrificing himself so that the young not-yet-ready hero both manages to get away and also has a motive for revenge is a very common refrain in a lot of archetypical stories, and clearly Lucas was not above following archetypes in order to add meaning to his movies.

[Sihada]

Similarly, though no one has heard anything about the deal other than those involved (who are obviously not saying anything to us) we can be certain that things have/are been/being said, and things have/are been/being done. Otherwise we would hear something and it would not be pleasant.

There is no data to support the idea that conversations are ongoing because no one is talking to the community.  The only thing of which we can be certain is that some conversations were had a year ago.  Anything beyond that is speculation and wishful thinking.

[Soul Resonance]

There is no data to support the idea that conversations are ongoing because no one is talking to the community.  The only thing of which we can be certain is that some conversations were had a year ago.  Anything beyond that is speculation and wishful thinking.

True, but they did say an NDA would be in effect because people were abit too ansy and were going to try and force the deal to be public.

[Thunder Glove]

... did they ever explicitly say there was a NDA, or did people just start saying there must be an NDA because we've stopped hearing things?

(I'm not trying to be flippant, incidentally.  I can't remember whether we were directly told that there's a NDA)

[Power Gamer]

... did they ever explicitly say there was a NDA, or did people just start saying there must be an NDA because we've stopped hearing things?

(I'm not trying to be flippant, incidentally.  I can't remember whether we were directly told that there's a NDA)

I believe Ironwolf did state that they are under an NDA.

[Arcana]

Obi-Wan's death seemed obvious and necessary to me at the time. He was the teacher figure in the hero's story who puts the hero on the path to greatness, but because he was an active hero himself, he had to get out of the way so that the new hero's story could be told. If he had taught or encouraged Luke and remained behind, he could have lived. But he could not remain in the story, still active and powerful, and still have Luke become a great hero. I did not know that there was additional meaning in his death, how he died, and to whom, but the fact that he died was not at all surprising. The old warrior/teacher sacrificing himself so that the young not-yet-ready hero both manages to get away and also has a motive for revenge is a very common refrain in a lot of archetypical stories, and clearly Lucas was not above following archetypes in order to add meaning to his movies.

There are lots of tropes that deal with this, but only one where the teacher *must* die, and that's where the teacher becomes an impediment to the hero standing on his own.  They become overshadowing father figures.  But at that moment in A New Hope that isn't true for Obi Wan.  Obi Wan doesn't *have* to die narratively, because Obi Wan isn't going to jump into an X-Wing and blow up the Death Star.  You can only get that impression in retrospect.

Also, Star Wars doesn't just yank Obi Wan off the stage; to follow the trope it also yanks Han Solo, the other mentor/father figure Luke looks up to, which seems narratively predictable.  But it subverts that trope by having Han return at the end to help Luke, and doing so doesn't prevent Luke from becoming a hero in the story.

While it might make sense to some at the time, that's not the same thing as saying it is obvious and inevitable.  If it was so obvious that Obi Wan had to die to make way for Luke's development into the hero, the same argument could be made for Yoda in Empire, but Yoda doesn't die in Empire.  And that is because Empire is ultimately a different story.  But you couldn't possibly know that until the end of Empire.  And my point wasn't that Obi Wan's death seems odd at the time in 1977, I asserted it was odd at the literal moment of the character's death on-screen, and before the end of Star Wars reveals what the ultimate story in A New Hope was.

[darkgob]

There is no data to support the idea that conversations are ongoing because no one is talking to the community.  The only thing of which we can be certain is that some conversations were had a year ago.  Anything beyond that is speculation and wishful thinking.

UPDATE September 30 2015:


NO, WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE DEAL. YES, THEY ARE UNDER AN NDA. YES, EFFORTS ARE STILL ONGOING. STOP ASKING. JUST CHAT AND WAIT. THANKS.

There's really no plausible reason to believe that the negotiations failed.  It's possible there could be a post-failure clause in the NDA forbidding the negotiation team from speaking about it (for the next X period of time, or maybe ever), but I think it would be kind of bizarre and pointless to include specific language forbidding them from even acknowledging that the talks have concluded fruitlessly.  What would that even accomplish?