New efforts!

[CrimsonCapacitor]

Again, for those who think this is an easy transaction, it's not.

See:  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg188069.html#msg188069
-and-
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg188077.html#msg188077

Buying a company wholesale is relatively easy.  You get all their "stuff."  Unless it's called out, all rights, etc. go to the buyer.  The seller gets cash.  It takes some time to make the bean counters relax about what the actual value of the company is (how much it makes now, what the future revenue may be, what debts are, what liabilities are, how much cash on hand, etc).  That honestly doesn't take long if you throw enough accountants at it.  Whether something works or not doesn't matter.  Future revenue streams/plans don't matter (much).  What rights the new company has to work with the previous company's trademarks don't matter.  It ALL moves to the new owner.

This is buying a little tiny bit of something from a company.  That's not simple, because... see above.  Both parties have to be comfortable with the other and that things are supposed to work like they should.  But also because it was/is associated with NCSoft, the lawyers are going to want to know that whatever happens to it won't damage their clients, be it reputation or for a way for someone to come back at NCSoft with a lawsuit about the game.  And the bean counters are probably having trouble valuing the property (How much is Statesman actually worth?  Alive or dead, cause he died at the end there.  Well, run both numbers and get back to me....).  So you've got two internal groups, both of which are notoriously difficult to appease completely, that have to agree on things JUST TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.

Deep breaths.  Again, it's much easier for NCSoft to say, "Go pound sand." and walk away if they weren't serious about this.  But as pointed out, this is probably below a "C level" priority for the company.  They'll get to it when they get to it.  Just because it's important to us doesn't mean it's important to them.  And there are a lot of moving parts here.

[Soul Resonance]

My two cents...

If I was negotiating and I had a deal with NCSoft, not a single person not involved would know until it was ready to roll-out for everyone to play.  You can talk all you want about VO and COT but lets face it... they'll NEVER hold a candle to CoH.  Interest in this game, for the true fans, will never be lost.  All you naysayers sound like a bunch of petulant 5-year-olds: "I'm leaving and I'm taking my ball with me".  Well you know what?  Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out, but... you know you'll be back once it's up and running.

If I've offended anyone... get over it.

Couldn't agree more. I will not touch VO(looks abit too much like CO, and I can only stand one CO :P), and I'll support CoT because MWM getting CoH back, but won't play it -until- CoH is back. I accept no substitutes.
Sorry if I come off as a bit entitled :P

[Soul Resonance]

CoX will be coming back... it may not be as soon as some people would like, but that's life. I actually have set aside a nice chunk of change for when it does come back to A) Buy as much as possible and B) Purchase a new gaming laptop.


Not sure who said it, but MWM is not involved in CoX Legacy. Yes Nate is spearheading CoX Legacy and yes he is a big part of MWM, but CoH Legacy is in NO way a part of MWM.


While I am a fan of VO and hope it the best...When CoH comes back it (CoH) will be the game that gains almost all of my attention.


I have no issue with people doubting the return of CoH...but as in real life... I tend to ignore/distance myself from negative people (Especially when I know their negativity is unfounded).

Right, sorry..forgot MWM wasn't involved but Nate is..either way, i'll support CoT as well as CoH upon return :D(but will mostly be playing CoH)

[Thunder Glove]

Wait, you mean the 10 seasons sitting on my external waiting for me to wade through them are about to grow? le sigh

So far, only by three episodes, but... yes.  He's running a Kickstarter that's already made its initial goal, and all the stretch goals are just "more episodes".

[ivanhedgehog]

Again, for those who think this is an easy transaction, it's not.

See:  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg188069.html#msg188069
-and-
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9675.msg188077.html#msg188077

Buying a company wholesale is relatively easy.  You get all their "stuff."  Unless it's called out, all rights, etc. go to the buyer.  The seller gets cash.  It takes some time to make the bean counters relax about what the actual value of the company is (how much it makes now, what the future revenue may be, what debts are, what liabilities are, how much cash on hand, etc).  That honestly doesn't take long if you throw enough accountants at it.  Whether something works or not doesn't matter.  Future revenue streams/plans don't matter (much).  What rights the new company has to work with the previous company's trademarks don't matter.  It ALL moves to the new owner.

This is buying a little tiny bit of something from a company.  That's not simple, because... see above.  Both parties have to be comfortable with the other and that things are supposed to work like they should.  But also because it was/is associated with NCSoft, the lawyers are going to want to know that whatever happens to it won't damage their clients, be it reputation or for a way for someone to come back at NCSoft with a lawsuit about the game.  And the bean counters are probably having trouble valuing the property (How much is Statesman actually worth?  Alive or dead, cause he died at the end there.  Well, run both numbers and get back to me....).  So you've got two internal groups, both of which are notoriously difficult to appease completely, that have to agree on things JUST TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.

Deep breaths.  Again, it's much easier for NCSoft to say, "Go pound sand." and walk away if they weren't serious about this.  But as pointed out, this is probably below a "C level" priority for the company.  They'll get to it when they get to it.  Just because it's important to us doesn't mean it's important to them.  And there are a lot of moving parts here.

again, ncspft can use aggressive indifference with regard to this deal, but there is a time limit. at some time the finance for the deal will withdraw, or the actual value of coh will drop to the point that there is no real point in spending the money to buy it. at which time ncsoft will get nothing for an ip that people will fondly rememebr but will no longer be relevent

[MM3squints]

again, ncspft can use aggressive indifference with regard to this deal, but there is a time limit. at some time the finance for the deal will withdraw, or the actual value of coh will drop to the point that there is no real point in spending the money to buy it. at which time ncsoft will get nothing for an ip that people will fondly rememebr but will no longer be relevent

If there is a interest, there is always a buyer. Even if  the mass public shows no interest and sees no value, if there is someone willing to buy the product at the listed price, they will sell it. NC Soft, as demonstrated so far, is in no rush to sell anything, and they can care less if it just sit dust until that day comes.

[Ironwolf]

I know we have said this repeatedly - yet it is time to say it again:

NCSoft didn't care if they sold it - they still don't care.

They closed the doors and walked away. For them to sell it takes time and man hours and costs money. For them to do nothing is free. So selling the game is not a high priority. I think it is likely just behind getting an extra case of toilet paper for the company holiday celebrations.

But the folks involved still say it is moving forward - slower than we want but still going.

[Arcana]

Seriously?

You think all that BS is absolutely necessary? If you wanted to buy something from me, and I made you go through miles of red tape just to get it done, you wouldn't think that was unnecessary and I was just dragging my feet? This isn't AT&T trying to merge with Verizon, where the government would step in and engage in a lengthy process to find out of it's fair or not. It's just a single IP they're sitting on.

Heck, I remember when Commodore went under and the rights to produce more Amiga computers started changing hands very quickly. We're talking a matter of months. If a company really, truly wants something to happen, that's about how long it would take.

Companies don't do things, people do.  If the CEO of a company wants something to get done, he or she can often make it happen very quickly, because literally everyone involved is ultimately required to do what he wants, when he wants, irrespective of any other priorities.  On the other hand, if someone inside a company that isn't a chief executive wants to get something done that requires resources outside their direct control, that effort can take any amount of time including literally decades no matter how simple it looks on the surface.  Given that I'm reasonably certain the CEO of NCSoft isn't ordering his entire company to effect the transfer of City of Heroes assets to a third party, there's no way to estimate how long such a process "should" take.

[Drauger9]

I can't remember who it was but someone ask. How long is everyone willing to wait.

For me, myself. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. Now maybe buy the time we do get it back. There will be some other super amazing game out. That I've falling in love with and I completely forget about CoH. But at this time that hasn't happened (even though Xenoblade Chronicles X is right around the corner :P).

[microc]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

[Surelle]

I can't remember who it was but someone ask. How long is everyone willing to wait.

For me, myself. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. Now maybe buy the time we do get it back. There will be some other super amazing game out. That I've falling in love with and I completely forget about CoH. But at this time that hasn't happened (even though Xenoblade Chronicles X is right around the corner :P).

I want CoH back as badly as anyone....but thanks for that tipoff on the new Xenoblade!  I brake for console RPGs too!   ;)  And in the flurry of Fallout 4 this, and Star Wars: Battlefront that, I kinda missed the boat on that one.

I did get the new Tales of Zestiria though.   :)  I'm a Tales freak going all the way back through the original PS2 games.

[Surelle]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

They're not actively looking to sell CoH at all, as others have said, which is part of the holdup.

[darkgob]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

City of Heroes isn't exactly a hot property.  Don't kid yourself, it's a niche property with a playerbase that has largely moved on apart from a relative few hangers-on (that's us).  City of Heroes is not coming back as an active property, what we get will amount to little more than a fan project (Issue 23 until APR is done, then maybe continued but fairly slow development with APR going forward) for those who are still interested in playing it.  "Our game" was shut down 2 years ago, and frozen image of I23 aside, it's not coming back in that form.  Ever.

Besides, if Disney wants to make an MMO, they have plenty of their own IP to work with (Marvel included), and all of it is more well-known than City of Heroes.

[ivanhedgehog]

If there is a interest, there is always a buyer. Even if  the mass public shows no interest and sees no value, if there is someone willing to buy the product at the listed price, they will sell it. NC Soft, as demonstrated so far, is in no rush to sell anything, and they can care less if it just sit dust until that day comes.

say there was an os patch that broke the client...all of a sudden, issue 23 is pretty much worthless. we are very lucky that has not happened. all the interest that we have will amount to nothing if only a small subset of us have a machine that will run the client. the minute we get the ok, APR can start development in earnest of 1.5. that will lessen any chance of us losing a chance to get back into coh. I would love to see Irish Girls hard work come to life. that would be extremely high on the awesome meter.

[Ironwolf]

I think Good Old Games or Steam will have an interest in CoH.

There is still value in the game and many will slowly return if it is up perpetually. I also think that my original idea has some merit down the line of turning it over to a University as a learning tool and let them tweak it and open source it.

Then you could have further development.

[Remaugen]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

If I am not mistaken, James Cameron Tom DeSanto optioned the film rights to CoH years ago, and too the best of my knowledge he still controls them. I doubt he has any desire to do anything with it, but he's not likely to give them up cheaply either.


Edit: I just Googled it to find the article and I cannot, I may be mistaken as to the specific name of the director/producer, but I do recall the news when it occurred.
Edit 2: Boy was I ever wrong!

Movie and television
In June 2007, it was announced that the producer for the Transformers film, Tom DeSanto, had acquired the option to make movies and television shows based on the City of Heroes franchise.[44] In February 2008, it was announced that DeSanto had indeed begun preparations for the film. A plot summary had been released detailing that the movie itself takes place during the first Rikti War.

[Kelltick]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

Well, the entirety of Marvel Phase 1 happened before the announcement of the CoH sunset, so I would venture I'm safe to say that "how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten" was pretty damn hot when they decided that any potential income from the pop-culturization of comics (and thus general populace interest in all things comic books) wasn't worth it to keep the first and best Comic Book/SuperHero MMO (and still profitable) up and running.

And Marvel sued them (Cryptic Studios) at one point, and turned around and hired them at another to make their own MMO, Marvel Universe Online.

So no, Marvel (can't speak on Disney other than to say that if Disney were for sure interested at any point, they'd own it by now) is not competing with Nate & Co.©, and no the IP/game isn't worth more now being shuttered for 3 years vs. alive and well while Phase 1 had a quite successful run.  Until we hear otherwise, given the information we've been given, Nate & Co.© are still in good faith (albeit slow) ongoing negotiations.  Any and all perceived "delays" are due to a myriad of factors unbeknownst to us other than those whom may have dealt with international business sales/acquisitions/etc...and at best they only appreciate the complexities, potential cultural business Modus Operandi pratfalls, corporate bureaucracy, and legal issues that gum up the works.  Every deal is different.  What wasn't an issue in a similar deal may be the big sticking point in this one.

[Drauger9]

I want CoH back as badly as anyone....but thanks for that tipoff on the new Xenoblade!  I brake for console RPGs too!   ;)  And in the flurry of Fallout 4 this, and Star Wars: Battlefront that, I kinda missed the boat on that one.

I did get the new Tales of Zestiria though.   :)  I'm a Tales freak going all the way back through the original PS2 games.

Your welcome :), I've played some of the newer tales games but nothing later than Ninentdo Wii. I've played almost all the Xenoblade games though. :)

Also incase anyone's missed it. DragonQuest Heroes is coming to PC December 3. :P

[Todogut]

Ironwolf what about if ncsoft is trying to hold out for more money do to how hot comicbook movie and tv have gotten?? they could be waiting for dinsney or marvel to pick up the mmo ip.

I attended New York Comic Con 2015 and sat in on the Will Eisner: Champion of the Graphic Novel panel presentation where comic book artist/co-founder of Image Comics/creator of Spawn Todd McFarlane opined (at the 33:35 mark in the linked YouTube video):

Now is the best time for independent comic books, and I'm going to tell you why. Because Marvel comic books have been bought by Disney, and they spent four billion dollars on that. And they spent a couple billion dollars getting Iron Man and Fantastic Four and a couple of their other characters back, and they just made a deal to get Spidey back. Very soon, they're gonna glom onto all those characters, and it will come under one umbrella... and it's called Disney--done.

DC Comics has been owned by Warner Bros. for a very long time, and they've never let the children play with any of the neighbors for a very, very long time. So, Warner Bros. is set up. And Disney is set up. But, there are other people in the world, and you may have heard of a couple of them. They're called Universal; they're called Sony; they're called Paramount; they're called Lion's Gate; they're called Fox. And they need content. And right now, the two big boys aren't sharing their content, because they're owned by big conglomerates.

So, here's the deal. If you do a comic book, or a strip, or something, and they look at a list... and, in comic books--I'll keep it simple with comic books--and your book is number 155 in sales... and you may be slightly discouraged by that fact. The executives in a lot of industries, especially in Hollywood, who are looking for content, have to take a black marker and put a line through everything that says Marvel and DC. So, if you're 155, and the 154 books ahead of you are Marvel and DC, you are number one to a lot of studios--it's not even a joke; it'a fact.

So, you can be 300 now and have value that was not there before when they were sharing. God bless their greed. (inaudible beneath laughter/applause) So, if you've got an idea, I whole-heartedly recommend you do it.

As McFarlane explained, there may be opportunities for even rather obscure comics-related properties to be used in mainstream media. It would be hilariously ironic if NCSoft would sell the rights to the City of Heroes intellectual property--say, to a group representing the former player community--and then the new owners make a licensing deal that turns into a hit cartoon, live-action TV series, or movie. It would be especially sweet if NCSoft didn't share in the financial rewards nor credits.

From what we've heard about the ongoing efforts, if a deal does go through, it doesn't sound like NCSoft will be entirely out of the picture; but, still, it's an amusing day-dream.

[Noyjitat]

Here we are soon approaching yet another year with only table scraps for news. If the game was really that worthless to ncsoft it shouldn't be taking this long to sell it nor should it of been shut down...