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Started by Ironwolf, March 06, 2014, 03:01:32 PM

Thunder Glove

I was under the impression that GL's "constructs" don't need to be copies of real objects.  A GL could create a simple force-field to contain and move an object, and wouldn't have to build a big glowing bulldozer (for example), though some would depending on their personality.  So moving a planet wouldn't require mentally designing and constructing a planet-moving device, just a big enough force field to hold the planet together and enough willpower to actually move the mass of a planet.  (The latter is where the problem lies)

And the Emotional Spectrum is a relatively recent idea, less than a decade old.  Before that, a Green Lantern ring was simply controlled by the user's willpower, not The Concept Of Willpower As An Ephemeral Force That Binds All Living Beings.  (I really much preferred it when the rings were simply tools that let the GLs do what they needed to do, rather than sentient beings in their own right)

Vee

Yeah, and at most 4 of the 9 colors on the 'emotional spectrum' are actually emotions.

Sinistar

Quote from: Thunder Glove on July 02, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
I was under the impression that GL's "constructs" don't need to be copies of real objects.  A GL could create a simple force-field to contain and move an object, and wouldn't have to build a big glowing bulldozer (for example), though some would depending on their personality.  So moving a planet wouldn't require mentally designing and constructing a planet-moving device, just a big enough force field to hold the planet together and enough willpower to actually move the mass of a planet.  (The latter is where the problem lies)

And the Emotional Spectrum is a relatively recent idea, less than a decade old.  Before that, a Green Lantern ring was simply controlled by the user's willpower, not The Concept Of Willpower As An Ephemeral Force That Binds All Living Beings.  (I really much preferred it when the rings were simply tools that let the GLs do what they needed to do, rather than sentient beings in their own right)

GL rings are still capable of a great many things, and are fueled by the green energy which is now will power bu they still need the will of the GL to function.

The rings still have their A.I. so that for example a GL can ask for a power level check, ask for language translation, ask for their current location in space, ask to locate another GL, etc.

The giant planet GL named Mogo is said to be vital to the rings seeking new GL's but the extent of that claim I do not think is proven.  Mogo does serve as their new planetary base with OA destroyed.

As to the emotional spectrum, I do like it in that it makes the yellow weakness something that can be dealt with if a GL focuses their will and feels no fear, unlike the days when a yellow spray painted villain was immune to the GL power. 
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Shibboleth

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 02:09:47 AM
If we assume Superman acts like a 100 kg mass on impact, then if he were to manage to accelerate to 99% of the speed of light and strike the Earth, the impact would have the equivalent energy of about a 13 gigaton blast.  For reference, the Chicxulub impact believed to have wiped out the dinosaurs had an estimated impact strength of about 100 teratons, or 100,000 gigatons (100 million megatons).  About seven thousand times larger.

For Superman to shatter the Earth completely, he'd need to at a minimum overcome the gravitational potential of the Earth (the energy needed to cause every part of the Earth to escape its gravity well).  Superman would have to hit the Earth about a trillion times harder to do that.  On the other hand, at 99% of the speed of light he would be hitting the Earth with an impact energy about 50 times higher than that estimated for the Krakatoa blast.  Probably not enough to severely damage the global biosphere, but no matter where he hit, everyone on Earth would notice.

He is moving at near light speed, so can loop through the Earth roughly 30 times per second presuming he passes through the core each time. By your calculation above that means he causes an extinction event in 4 minutes. Not too shabby really.

RGladden

#18444
Strange things happen to mass at near light speeds.  Not only would it require an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even a small mass to such speeds, the object in question would acquire INFINITE MASS during the process.  IF that mass were to remain contained within a small cubic area, it would have more than enough stored energy to destroy a planet.  However, if memory serves, that mass would, in effect, begin to dissipate, or spread itself, over a vast area, essentially taking on the characteristics of a light or radio wave.

Shibboleth

If I did not screw up the equations you're looking at roughly 1/5,000,000 of the energy output by the Sun per second for Superman to get up to 99% of light speed. Since he does do that (and faster than light too) presumably he works on that scale.

Ohioknight

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 04:46:53 AM

Randall Munroe (of xkcd) addressed a similar question in his what if column: https://what-if.xkcd.com/20/.  I'm assuming that no matter how fast Superman flies atoms cannot pass right through his atomic structure, so he has to transfer that momentum to any atom he encounters.  If a 100 foot diameter sphere of carbon can't blast through the Earth completely at 0.99c, Superman wouldn't be able to either because although you might think he would be a better penetrator because he's stronger, he resists that motion even more than the mega-diamond would which actually acts to counter his maximum penetration depth.  Real normal matter would be moving so fast it would actually pass right through a lot of the Earth before detonating underground.  Superman will actually *strike* the Earth the moment his body touches the atmosphere, right up to the moment his face hits the ground.

Well, I was assuming Superman was operating under constant acceleration rather than a ballistic impact and I would assume Superman at .99c would behave more like a large hunk of Neutronium than a carbon sphere...
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"

MegaWatt

wow....we need CoX back very badly you guys almost caused -me- to shout 'NERDS !'
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!

Brigadine

Quote from: MegaWatt on July 02, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
wow....we need CoX back very badly you guys almost caused -me- to shout 'NERDS !'
Yeah this conversation reeks of nerds trying to fill a void...  :'(

Azrael

Quote from: gdgiordano on July 02, 2015, 05:09:21 PM
Yeah this conversation reeks of nerds trying to fill a void...  :'(

Arcana started it...  :P

Azrael.

Ohioknight

Quote from: MegaWatt on July 02, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
wow....we need CoX back very badly you guys almost caused -me- to shout 'NERDS !'

Well, I was a guest speaker at Superman's 25th birthday party and I am the guy who renamed S.H.I.E.L.D. -- because I thought "Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage and Logistics Directorate" made more sense than "Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-enforcement Division".

And then wrote a long article explaining that name in great detail along with other revised comic acronyms. 

And convinced Marc Gruenwald to adopt it as Marvel's official name at Mid-Ohiocon.

So, yeah.  NERD.

(Technological Hierarchy Utilizing Newly Developed Experimental Resources)
"Wow, a fat, sarcastic, Star Trek fan, you must be a devil with the ladies"


Sermon

A write-up on some CoH memories over at Rock Paper Shotgun :

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/02/city-of-heroes-retrospective/

choice quotation: "Heck, it remains my only positive experience of online multiplayer gaming, and what a thing it was."

Arcana

Quote from: RGladden on July 02, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
Strange things happen to mass at near light speeds.  Not only would it require an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even a small mass to such speeds, the object in question would acquire INFINITE MASS during the process.  IF that mass were to remain contained within a small cubic area, it would have more than enough stored energy to destroy a planet.  However, if memory serves, that mass would, in effect, begin to dissipate, or spread itself, over a vast area, essentially taking on the characteristics of a light or radio wave.

Saying objects moving at the speed of light acquire infinite mass is just a colloquial way of saying it can't happen.

Its like saying anyone can count to infinity, it just takes an infinite amount of time.  Those words sound like they mean something, but those words in that order don't really have any mathematical meaning at all.

Arcana

Quote from: Thunder Glove on July 02, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
I was under the impression that GL's "constructs" don't need to be copies of real objects.

I don't think they need to be copies of real objects, but I think the lantern actually has to be able to imagine them.  And I think imagination is the key: you can speak words that you don't really understand, like "ring, make me a seven sided regular polyhedron" but the ring can't do that.  Its impossible, but more importantly when you're saying those words you aren't mentally visualizing anything.  You aren't imagining what that looks like and willing it into existence.  You're just speaking gibberish.

"Ring, make me a force field" doesn't mean anything.  What kind of force field?  What does it do?  What does it look like?  But when a lantern actually does that, they are actually mentally visualizing and conceptualizing something.  Something that has an appearance, and a form, and a set of properties.  If the ring can do it, it will make what the Lantern thinks.  But the Lantern has to think it.

To a limited degree a Lantern can ask the ring for stuff verbally.  But in those cases, the Lantern is relying on the ring to interpret those words and be able to do what it thinks the Lantern is requesting.  The ring has to "know" how to do that, and rings are not omniscient.

pinballdave

This hasn't been discussed, but if my CoH deprived memory serves me, the Green Lanterns worked around the limitations of their rings. The instance I remember better was when Alan Scott was fighting Solomon Grundy in the silver age Justice Society stories. His ring was week against wood, and Solomon Grundy had wood properties from the Swamp. (He's a witch! He floats! He is a duck! They are both made of wood!) So Alan used the power of the ring indirectly and picked up actual objects to throw or drop on Solomon Grundy via giant hand or giant shovel. Am I misremembering this?

pinballdave

As I was pondering other DC characters capable of moving a planet, I remembered another character that could move a planet in a blink of an eye -- although there were very likely going to be unexpected side effects. Johnny Lightning's Thunderbolt.

JanessaVR

Quote from: Arcana on July 02, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
The ring has to "know" how to do that, and rings are not omniscient.
True, but on occasion I have wondered why, if they're as smart as they are, that they bother having wielders at all.  Surely a smart drone fleet would be more efficient - and more easily subject to a centralized control center.

Arcana

Quote from: JanessaVR on July 02, 2015, 11:13:45 PM
True, but on occasion I have wondered why, if they're as smart as they are, that they bother having wielders at all.  Surely a smart drone fleet would be more efficient - and more easily subject to a centralized control center.

The same reason KITT had a driver.

blacksly

Quote from: Arcana on July 03, 2015, 12:03:33 AM
The same reason KITT had a driver.

Someone needs to tip the gas-station attendant?