New efforts!

[microc]

if they get the code today there going to need to do a raising of funds for servers and to hire people to work on the game. may be 2-3 months before they can get the hardware needed for the servers unless someone lets them rent a few of them.

[Des_Tructive]

I thought they worshipped the True Rikti? The beings who invaded their world and had such a profound effect on their society that it caused them to change themselves in emulation of them?

I thought the Rikti priests were the thought police of the Rikti homeworld.

It wouldn't make sense then, that the Priests first showed up after the Rikti War. That aside, I remember the Rikti having banished all sorts of religion and magic from their culture. Never heard of the True Rikti.

Checking the wiki, their in-game description also says they fulfill a similiar role to priests, and police their culture by weeding out aberrant thought patterns. Hurm.

[darkgob]

It wouldn't make sense then, that the Priests first showed up after the Rikti War. That aside, I remember the Rikti having banished all sorts of religion and magic from their culture. Never heard of the True Rikti.

True Rikti were slated to be revealed in later issues.

[Rejolt]

if they get the code today there going to need to do a raising of funds for servers and to hire people to work on the game. may be 2-3 months before they can get the hardware needed for the servers unless someone lets them rent a few of them.

If they get the image...


     ... In the first 5 minutes that news gets out they'll have 100 people offering them money. An hour later they'll have 1000.
    That's unsolicited offers.
    I can imagine half of that 60k would be willing to pay for a visit back after they announce the fees to play.

When they officially have a payment plan going I'm down for a yearly renewable (at $180 + whatever they ask for the initial COH/cov/gr combo). I know I'm not the only one. They'll have a few hundred thousand to get things started and I have no idea what the four or five groups that make our negotiating team are bringing with them.

The real question is how much a month will it cost to run the servers? How many servers? How much money do we need to raise a month? I'm darn sure we'd be fine from relaunch to about 3 months in. It's what happens once the nostalgia wears off for everyone outside of our hardcore few.

For my part I'll vote with my wallet as long as a server runs .

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

if they get the code today there going to need to do a raising of funds for servers and to hire people to work on the game. may be 2-3 months before they can get the hardware needed for the servers unless someone lets them rent a few of them.

Are you part of the group? Because Ironwolf's early posts indicated that the current group thought the asking price was fine and that NCsoft was negotiating seriously. These are not things that happen if you don't even have the money to hire employees and lease servers. Any real world business would show your ass the door if you said you wanted to buy their IP but didn't have any money for it.

[Aggelakis]

Are you part of the group? Because Ironwolf's early posts indicated that the current group thought the asking price was fine and that NCsoft was negotiating seriously. These are not things that happen if you don't even have the money to hire employees and lease servers. Any real world business would show your ass the door if you said you wanted to buy their IP but didn't have any money for it.

Microc is not part of the group. He is speculating.

The group has multiple (at least five, by Ironwolf's own count in the OP timeline) financial avenues waiting in the wings for the plans to be finalized.

[blacksly]

Microc is not part of the group. He is speculating.

The group has multiple (at least five, by Ironwolf's own count in the OP timeline) financial avenues waiting in the wings for the plans to be finalized.

I had the impression that those were willing would-be investors, but also from the way the talks have been proceeding, I also have the impression that they have already gathered enough investment funds to have cash on hand for some work. Most likely enough to start the servers and run them for a while. So I'm not worrying about the availability of funds for starting the servers.

[Felderburg]

IIRC, the devs mentioned in one of the Lores that they had either been working on or envisioning a Rikti EAT. I think it would have been perfect to go along with the Coming Storm storyline, and perhaps a revised Crey's Folly (Riktitown!!)

Generic Rikti to start, splitting into Mentalists or Soldiers as they level (or staying "generic").

There is a Lore AMA question that addresses EATs in general: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#193
And one that talks about Rikti and redeemed DE EATs: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#288

Long story short, the long stories other Epic ATs had set a precedent that was sort of a pain to create content for, since it's a lot of work to create storylines for just one AT. They did end up thinking about releasing purchasable ATs with no story content associated with them.

Personally, I think the story is what makes the EATs so cool. I suppose you could probably make a storyline that fits any player, with little dialog checks. Maybe a beginning contact specific to each EAT, but then after that they experience "their" storyline as any other player, but with additional dialogue options.

Edit: I will say that there are some suggested "EATs" here that can be done with existing powers. PPD, Trolls, CoT, etc. could all be created with released costume parts and existing powers. This makes the story key to what makes the epic (because it's the literal definition of epic). Maybe it would be easier to have a special addition to the character creation screen, where you can select an existing NPC faction to "join," and then the rest of your power selection and costume is limited by that choice. You go through the tutorial, and get a special story contact that talks to you about your faction and allows you to choose dialog explaining how you came to be part of that faction (or leave it). That could also be done in character creation I suppose.

The Strongman path

Just gonna throw it out there that it is heavily implied by the answer to this AMA question that the Strongmen are dead: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#357

Additionally, a Carnival path would lead to you being enslaved by Vanessa DeVore, unless there was some way to say a Carnie retained her powers after the mask came off and released her from her enslavement.

Further Edit: Rikti are definitely the best EAT path to go down, as far as storyline content is concerned. They've got their own civil war, and agendas with Earth factions, and lots of cool stuff going on. Powers wise, I'm not sure what would be different enough, though....  maybe they would work best with the "existing powers" idea above, but then they get a super extensive and special storyline? So rather than an epic "archetype", they're just epic "characters" - you can choose any AT and powers, with magic or tech origin, and then you get a special storyline.

Edit again: you could totally give these "not quite epic" ATs a few special powers - Trolls get a "Superadine Rage" invul. power, Rikti get Monkeys and inherent TP, things like that.

[Zombie Hustler]

It wouldn't make sense then, that the Priests first showed up after the Rikti War. That aside, I remember the Rikti having banished all sorts of religion and magic from their culture. Never heard of the True Rikti.

Makes sense to me- it wasn't until after the Rikti War that the Restructurist faction arose, and the Rikti Priests would serve as "thought police" for that group against the peacemongering Traditionalists.

Also, regarding the "priests", note that they need not be religious/deific per se (particularly since the Rikti are noted to have destroyed all the "gods" of their homeworld, IIRC). They could simply be spiritualist counselor types, who fulfill a similar function to the denominational "priesthood" that is more familiar to us Primal Earth inhabitants.

[Felderburg]

I'd vehemently disagree on the part of the Ritki. For a group that are such a key part of the CoH backstory, there's still been relatively little exploration into their backstory, their world, culture, etc. That's the entire point of the 'Epic' part of EAT; being heavily tied into the story.

I thought they worshipped the True Rikti? The beings who invaded their world and had such a profound effect on their society that it caused them to change themselves in emulation of them?

I would have loved to see the game history from the Rikti Earth PoV. While we know the facts of most stuff, it would have been awesome to see it from the other side.

Guys, have you seen the released version of the Story Bible? http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Story_Bible A guy who worked on the table top game decided the NDA was lifted when the game shut down, and released a version from 2004 of the story bible. It has TONS of really cool lore stuff. Some of it has been contradicted by what was put in game since, but a lot is still valid (albeit non-canon, given that it didn't appear in game and is an old version). And even what is contradicted gives insight as to where the in game lore came from.

That page has a link to the zip file, but you can find the pdfs on my Google Drive here: https://drive.google.com/#folders/0BzbPxewaK5DgUjNkNnBKTHFnOGc

The relevant PDF is "CoHBible". Page 406 has the information about how the Rikti came to be. The Lore AMA questions 88 & 89 (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#88) have what is probably the best paragraph-long summary of the events outlined in the Story Bible. But you HAVE to read the Story Bible to really understand the depth of what that summary means, and the implications for the lore of the game and the interactions between Rikti Earth and Primal Earth.

Plus, it reveals how the Omega Team was able to set up the magical barrier that ended the war. The actual set up there is a bit troubling and may contradict what the game says... even if there was a civil war at on Rikti earth, it clearly ended well enough in the actual Rikti government's favor that they were able to launch a second invasion.

And it just goes into such amazing detail about Rikti society that it's utterly indispensable for fans of Rikti lore.

Never heard of the True Rikti.

As I recall, there are a few throwaway lines, in some of the arcs where it's revealed that Rikti are modified humans, that mention the fact that aliens modified them thousands of years ago. However, the term "True Rikti" wasn't seen all that much (if at all) until the release of the Lore AMAs, which mostly talks about facing them in the future.

Speaking of open Rikti questions, was it ever explained how the Rikti Priests came in to being, and who they worship?

I thought the Rikti priests were the thought police of the Rikti homeworld.

As you say, Arcana's thoughts align with the description (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Rikti#Rikti_Priest says: "Though the Rikti are not known to be religious, they do have a number of individuals that fill a role similar to priests in their society. These cultural officials also investigate instances of aberrant thought, and seek to correct them. Few had ever been seen on Earth, until recently.") but I had always assumed, because they were added with the second invasion, that they were a result of the Rikti trying to learn magic. But that's apparently wrong.

Edit: The Story Bible pdf about the Rikti Crash Site is also great fodder for people that want to bash on Statesman (the character). The backstory from the website (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Rikti_Invasion_(Narrative) ) does say that he smashed three ships before realizing that he was sending them to crash on the city below, but the Story Bible file has a pretty brutal few lines about what it actually did to that section of the city. Statesman caused "devasation on a scale unseen since the Blitz of London. Entire corporations vanished in clouds of fire and vapor... waves of plasma rolled through the avenues and parkways like a tidal wave" three times: "It was only after the third such assault that he became aware of the tremendous collateral damage these falling behemoths were causing when they crashed to the streets below." I don't hate on Statesman (either) all that much, but the description of an entire city section wiped out was pretty intense, and I had to share it.

[Power Gamer]

thanks for the clarification, Felderburg.

[Zubenelgenubi]

You can't eat Rikti! They're people too!

Sir, I assure you that anything made of meat can be consumed. Even people.

[Power Gamer]

Sir, I assure you that anything made of meat can be consumed. Even people.

Meat's meat and man's gotta eat!

Rikti on a stick. Sweet and sour rikti. Deepfried. Unjugged. Boiled, broiled, sundried, baked, steamed, poached...

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Microc is not part of the group. He is speculating.

The group has multiple (at least five, by Ironwolf's own count in the OP timeline) financial avenues waiting in the wings for the plans to be finalized.

I had the impression that those were willing would-be investors, but also from the way the talks have been proceeding, I also have the impression that they have already gathered enough investment funds to have cash on hand for some work. Most likely enough to start the servers and run them for a while. So I'm not worrying about the availability of funds for starting the servers.

That's what i thought from having read the relevant threads and announcements, which made microc's concerns seems so weird and irrational that i figured either he had no idea what he was writing (and no idea what's been going with the new efforts, which seemed odd since he's posted repeatedly in the threads), or he had some sort of inside info that no one else on the forums had.

i usually hesitate to conclude that the mouth/keyboard was set into motion without bothering to engage the brain first (or at all) because that's the most mundane and least interesting possibility. Wacky and ridiculous concepts like major gaming corporations seriously negotiating with penniless fans who want to buy a major IP without having any idea of how to fund it is the more exciting and dramatic option.

[FloatingFatMan]

If the server code is provided in a well organized fashion and with reasonable instructions on how to set up a server instance, I would guestimate about 30 days from when someone hands someone else a disk with all the software to when someone outside the setup team could log into it and play the game, at a reasonable minimum.  It could happen faster, it could take a lot longer, but that would be a reasonable guess for the first-light pool.

Highly unlikely.. It'll take at least that long to organise hosting, then they have to sort out an accounts system, the in-game store, update the launcher for the new IP, get a downloadable client package sorted out, sort out hosting for THAT as well, then get advertising so that they've got a reasonable playerbase... That's on top of forming the holding company, and whatever company if not that, that will be hosting the game, and there's a lot of legal stuff to sort out for that which will take more than a month just on its own.

Then you have to hire some people to handle all that, too.

You aren't getting all that done in 30 days.  Not a chance.

[Scott Jackson]

If I were involved in such a licensing deal (and to be clear, I am currently not), significant setup work on the business side would already be complete but not divulged to the public, and plans would be in place to have all hosting/account/store arrangements in test mode prior to the official handover of the software from NCSoft.  There's no particular reason to delay all prep work until after a deal is concluded, and delaying even further until a disk is provided would be a downright awful strategy.  It is in both sides' interests to make the transition successful and fairly quick, so the basic information needed to do advance planning (especially for programming of the missing pieces) would be shared prior to finalizing the deal, unless the deal-makers aren't looking out for their own best interests.

Thus, Arcana's 30-day estimate for a first outside login is reasonable, assuming competence from both sides of the deal.  Also keep in mind that "outside login possible" is not the same as "launch day" - for the former, there is no strict requirement for a store, launcher (besides the .exe and command line parameters), advertising, in-game support staff, or even a particularly robust account system.  I was personally involved in one case where MMO server-client software was received in reasonable condition, followed by a successful outside login within a day - the server environment and tech knowledge were ready beforehand, then the server-side software was copied into place, config files adjusted, and the test player was given the necessary instructions to install the client and log in remotely.  I hope this effort has equally-good fortune and tech expertise.

[Zombie Hustler]

Just gonna throw it out there that it is heavily implied by the answer to this AMA question that the Strongmen are dead: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#357

Additionally, a Carnival path would lead to you being enslaved by Vanessa DeVore, unless there was some way to say a Carnie retained her powers after the mask came off and released her from her enslavement.

I believe that there were at least a couple of Carnival who seemed to retain a certain degree of autonomy, although it has admittedly been a while since I played and could be mistaken. Of course, even if the EAT was enslaved by Vanessa, that could be part of their storyline- to break free of her mind control.

Additionally, now that I think of it, a Carnie EAT could have both villainous and heroic versions- via the Carnival of Light. Perhaps it could be the first EAT that had the same EAT progression, but with two different (but likely interrelated) storylines depending on the side one selected?

[Arcana]

Highly unlikely.. It'll take at least that long to organise hosting, then they have to sort out an accounts system, the in-game store, update the launcher for the new IP, get a downloadable client package sorted out, sort out hosting for THAT as well, then get advertising so that they've got a reasonable playerbase... That's on top of forming the holding company, and whatever company if not that, that will be hosting the game, and there's a lot of legal stuff to sort out for that which will take more than a month just on its own.

Then you have to hire some people to handle all that, too.

You aren't getting all that done in 30 days.  Not a chance.

1.  I'd take that bet.

2.  You do not need time to set up a corporation, because its safe to assume on the day you get the server code one already exists.  It would have to in order to close the deal with NCSoft.

3.  Advertising is not mandatory, and not even desirable initially because it makes more sense to soft-launch to iron out the kinks before mass advertising.

4.  You really don't need to deal with the launcher or patcher, because both are irrelevant and unnecessary for a maintenance mode server.  All you need is the I23 client (with a single config file changed to point to the new servers) which can be easily distributed, vis-a-vis Icon.  Downstream, it would be trivial to write a better patcher to distribute updates, if updates were necessary.

5.  Replacing the store is the only thing that would take a significant amount of time.  I contend its not necessary to launch.  But assuming it were, it would definitely take less than a month to write.  In a week I could write one that was better in all respects.

6.  The fact you even mention "organizing hosting" as if that's a noteworthy thing suggests you're wildly overestimating the effort necessary to do this.  If you were ordering your own racks in a hosting company, provisioning cross connects and internet from scratch, ordering servers and deploying them from scratch, then yeah, that would take about sixty days to spin up.  Or you can stick your servers into EC2 instances or cloud provider du jour in an afternoon.  And I'm not sure why you would need to organize hosting for the client "separately."

The maintenance team might want to put a lot of polish and finish on things, and make a nice web page with links to the client and other stuff; they might want to add optional infrastructure to manage the servers and the player accounts, they might literally have no idea how to set up an AWS account and would have to learn everything from scratch. Or they might take a very streamlined approach to get something out immediately and clean it up over time.  I split the difference and guestimated a month.  But the only thing I'm guessing about is the intentions and technical capabilities of the maintenance team.  I am not guessing about what's required to make this work.

[Arcana]

Additionally, a Carnival path would lead to you being enslaved by Vanessa DeVore, unless there was some way to say a Carnie retained her powers after the mask came off and released her from her enslavement.

I generally presume that the backstory of any EAT based on a critter group would have an escape hatch from being locked into that group's storyline.  Otherwise, if you think about it, life gets very complicated when such a character tries to run normal PvE content that references that group.  That's part of the glitchy patchwork reality of replayable MMOs.

[Remaugen]

I generally presume that the backstory of any EAT based on a critter group would have an escape hatch from being locked into that group's storyline.  Otherwise, if you think about it, life gets very complicated when such a character tries to run normal PvE content that references that group.  That's part of the glitchy patchwork reality of replayable MMOs.

Exactly my thought as well. The same reasoning works for creating Rickti, CoT, Crey and Clockwork EATs.


We're almost there!   ;D