New efforts!

[DarkCurrent]

I remember that beginning of CoV, dominators were "that a cool concept, but dominators are too squishy." Then with the introduction of Patrons, dominators became very popular because of Sirocco pet gave you a pocket healer. With the introduction of IO, dominators jump from "hey I have a pocket healer" to "ok this is kind of feeling OP" when you got enough rech for perma dom. This paired with the Mu pet and Drain Psyche, you could kill just about everything and even farm faster than a SS/Fire brute. When Shades of Gray came out and a full villain dominator got access to Rage, it made dominators a "I win" AT with the instant domination (both in pve (plant/psi, fire/psi) and pvp (mind/fire, mind/ele, mind,dark)) Damn I miss playing dominators now :(

Yeah, IOs made pretty much any dom build a killer.  You could achieve permadom pretty easily by your late 20s, early 30s without needing to break the bank on 5x LotG.

And when their 2nd dmg mod was boosted that bumped my doms up another 5-10% in xpm and ipm so they were routinely outperforming my corruptors and equaling my brutes.

I always thought that the best way to buff blasters wasn't to give them even more damage, but to turn them into reverse dominators by increasing their controls.

[MM3squints]

Yeah, IOs made pretty much any dom build a killer.  You could achieve permadom pretty easily by your late 20s, early 30s without needing to break the bank on 5x LotG.

And when their 2nd dmg mod was boosted that bumped my doms up another 5-10% in xpm and ipm so they were routinely outperforming my corruptors and equaling my brutes.

I always thought that the best way to buff blasters wasn't to give them even more damage, but to turn them into reverse dominators by increasing their controls.

If I remember correctly doms were capped at 300% dmg (This can be sustained to near 300% with a /fire dom with perma domination and perma fiery embrace) and blasters were capped at 500% or something like that, but can't be sustained like how doms can. (sure you can pop BU and Aim, but that is for only few seconds)

[MWRuger]

I went off of the recommended video card, looked up the video card, and then took note on how much video ram that video card had to get my vRAM numbers.

Well unless you are spending 3000 grand for an Nvidia Titan, alone not counting system, that doesn't seem right. That one does have 12 gigs of video ram but there is no laptop that I know of that uses it. AMD Radeon and Nivida top end cards top out at 8GB and top out around 1500 on Amazon.

I can see it in a desktop if you are willing to spend a fair piece for a monster 3000-8000, but a comparable laptop (if it exists) would be a lot more.

Are you sure that they aren't just equating the system memory and video memory? Most non gaming laptops don't have dedicated video memory and just partition part of system memory. If there is one as you describe, I'd be interested so could you post a link?

Titan: http://alturl.com/chxin

AMD/Radeon: http://alturl.com/mwdpn

[LaughingAlex]

What makes COH unique is you can stack the buffs and debuffs Rift has buffs and debuff but they cancel each other out which means if you like one build and someone is playing it guess what you switch to a dps build or this build has a higher debuff so you need to switch builds or we are missing this and his dps is 300 in front of you switch to the boring build oh you do not have that kick. I mean when I raided I was on my game and so where my builds but man COH makes it easy not to have to plan you life around a raid to get top end gear or have fun. I can take random group and pull them through an ITF TF raid like content. Every build can contribute you do not have to have x,y and z to complete the raid and this much dps etc because you can stack debuffs and win it is not all about raw dps. Other games restrict the debuffs and buffs and make it all about dps at the end of the game

I saw alot of discrimination from the incarnate powers.  Elitists(who were, on virtue, rare, thank god) would demand you had +3 for almost any incarnate trial they were running.  It was very agitating to encounter that.  But I agree with people that a dps meter would be problemantic, however I do see that buffs, debuffs and cc were much stronger in CoX to.  In fact, the teams with strong force multiliers was often far stronger than the ones with the highest raw dps, often out-damaging the raw dps teams, even, due to thinks like fulcrum shift and resistance debuffing.  You had hundreds of strategies, such it was more what you brought to a team, overall, rather than just how much damage you did. 

Other mmorpgs, the reasons you end up with every encounter going the same is because buffs/debuffs/crowd control are left so weak as to ensure no one becomes "overpowered and breaks the trinity".  When in reality, what they are really doing is ensuring everyone has to play the same strategy over and over again or lose horribly.  They fear people will only play the best, but in reality, their actions cause people to only play the best as they severely punish those who don't.

[LaughingAlex]

If I remember correctly doms were capped at 300% dmg (This can be sustained to near 300% with a /fire dom with perma domination and perma fiery embrace) and blasters were capped at 500% or something like that, but can't be sustained like how doms can. (sure you can pop BU and Aim, but that is for only few seconds)

The damage caps were as follows.  The general rule is high damage classes had 400% damage cap(500% total if you include the base 100%).  Medium and "low" damage classes had 300% damage.  Brutes had 675%(total damage was 775%).

So, here goes.

Brutes: 675%
Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, Corruptors: 400%
All other AT's: 300%

This is taking the numbers on http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Damage_Cap#Damage and subtracting 100% to account for the base damage.  Quote: "Attacks do 100% damage to start with (i.e. base, or 1x normal), not 0%. The amount of Damage bonus needed to reach the cap is 100% less than the cap itself.".  The real numbers system would always cap 100% less for that reason.  Also enhancements were counted as part of the damage cap, so if you had 85% extra damage in all attacks as a corruptor, you only needed to get up to 315% damage to cap.

[CrimsonCapacitor]

I was wondering...  Do you think that Devs set up trials/raids/whatever the cool kids are calling them these days with a "This is how you have to beat it!" plan in mind?  Do you think that with COH, it was, "You have to take down the big guy (AVOID THE GREEN STUFF!).  How you do that is up to you."  Or was it, "This is how *I* as a Dev would beat it, but the players are crafty and will figure out other ways."?

[AlienOne]

Well unless you are spending 3000 grand for an Nvidia Titan, alone not counting system, that doesn't seem right. That one does have 12 gigs of video ram but there is no laptop that I know of that uses it. AMD Radeon and Nivida top end cards top out at 8GB and top out around 1500 on Amazon.

I can see it in a desktop if you are willing to spend a fair piece for a monster 3000-8000, but a comparable laptop (if it exists) would be a lot more.

Are you sure that they aren't just equating the system memory and video memory? Most non gaming laptops don't have dedicated video memory and just partition part of system memory. If there is one as you describe, I'd be interested so could you post a link?

Titan: http://alturl.com/chxin

AMD/Radeon: http://alturl.com/mwdpn

/facepalm

I swear... You must read my posts with bees literally stinging your eyeballs.

I will repost my own quote for your benefit, so maybe you will see that I specified a specific GB amount for laptops and a specific GB amount for desktops (using the phrase "up to"):

(now it's up to 8GB last I saw for notebooks-- up to 12GB for desktops)...

The point of it was if the "recommended" (not minimum) video card for the Unreal 4 engine to render out something comparable to that screenshot Codewalker said "I hope you have a lot of video RAM" for contains only 1GB of video RAM (not system RAM, video RAM), then I think that the current (or future) "standard" of video cards (which is around 2-4GB currently--higher for newer ones, which would be the "future standard" I was just mentioning) won't have a problem running whatever this new dev team chooses to create in the Unreal 4 engine (assuming they do, indeed, as Ironwolf says, create it in the Unreal 4 engine).

Also, I originally included the link for the laptop card talking about how many GB were on it (it's in the quote).

I can also include the desktop card link as well.

And get those bees looked at.


*EDIT*
Why do I get a strong feeling that someone's next response will be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE TITAN CARDS?!?!!?"

I think I'll reserve the /EPIC FACEPALM for that remark... ;)

[LaughingAlex]

I was wondering...  Do you think that Devs set up trials/raids/whatever the cool kids are calling them these days with a "This is how you have to beat it!" plan in mind?  Do you think that with COH, it was, "You have to take down the big guy (AVOID THE GREEN STUFF!).  How you do that is up to you."  Or was it, "This is how *I* as a Dev would beat it, but the players are crafty and will figure out other ways."?

Alot of them had fixed patterns to them, but there were usually multiple ways to deal with the incarnate trials.  CoX was best described as "Take down big guy, avoid green stuff(LAMBDA(marauder), MoM(two fights have purple patches of death), sometimes , or kill him and his girlfriend at exact same time(behavioral adjustment facility trial), or move if your targetted move very fast or die, or even kill the ENTIRE league!(TPN Campus, or in the case of entire league death Underground)!"  The devs didn't have one tactic in mind, as you could usually find more then one way to deal with things.

How that was done was up the the players to decide.  It wasn't like say the fire and ice rampage in CO where the sole strategy is have two tanks, one to beat on frosticus the other to beat on kenina and then two people heal them, occasionally everyone has to kill a living fire, but the strategy used, is preeetty much the only one that works.  It was made with the "This is how you HAVE to beat it!" mindset, people didn't like it except the trinity enforcement crowd.

[hejtmane]

I saw alot of discrimination from the incarnate powers.  Elitists(who were, on virtue, rare, thank god) would demand you had +3 for almost any incarnate trial they were running.  It was very agitating to encounter that.  But I agree with people that a dps meter would be problemantic, however I do see that buffs, debuffs and cc were much stronger in CoX to.  In fact, the teams with strong force multiliers was often far stronger than the ones with the highest raw dps, often out-damaging the raw dps teams, even, due to thinks like fulcrum shift and resistance debuffing.  You had hundreds of strategies, such it was more what you brought to a team, overall, rather than just how much damage you did. 

Other mmorpgs, the reasons you end up with every encounter going the same is because buffs/debuffs/crowd control are left so weak as to ensure no one becomes "overpowered and breaks the trinity".  When in reality, what they are really doing is ensuring everyone has to play the same strategy over and over again or lose horribly.  They fear people will only play the best, but in reality, their actions cause people to only play the best as they severely punish those who don't.

I never had that issue but I ran on Pinnacle but I always sure there are some of those type no matter what game you play.

I was scrapper and I knew what my dps was on all my major toons then again I was built to solo AV's  so I did a lot of solo AV's,pylon and rikti challenge and stupid stuff like that. In fact the scrapper form had an entire post tracking DPS builds amount of recharge and attack chains. It is what it is but the mind set of the scrapper forum was different than most on COH.

I linked the archive post below (To put it in context we had over 2.6k in replies before the shutdown)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906191553/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754

[MM3squints]

*EDIT*
Why do I get a strong feeling that someone's next response will be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE TITAN CARDS?!?!!?"

I think I'll reserve the /EPIC FACEPALM for that remark... ;)

You are incorrect sir. The real question would be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE A 3 WAY BRIDGED SLI TITAN CARDS?!?!" :D

[Fanta]

/facepalm

I swear... You must read my posts with bees literally stinging your eyeballs.

I will repost my own quote for your benefit, so maybe you will see that I specified a specific GB amount for laptops and a specific GB amount for desktops (using the phrase "up to"):

The point of it was if the "recommended" (not minimum) video card for the Unreal 4 engine to render out something comparable to that screenshot Codewalker said "I hope you have a lot of video RAM" for contains only 1GB of video RAM (not system RAM, video RAM), then I think that the current (or future) "standard" of video cards (which is around 2-4GB currently--higher for newer ones, which would be the "future standard" I was just mentioning) won't have a problem running whatever this new dev team chooses to create in the Unreal 4 engine (assuming they do, indeed, as Ironwolf says, create it in the Unreal 4 engine).

Also, I originally included the link for the laptop card talking about how many GB were on it (it's in the quote).

I can also include the desktop card link as well.

And get those bees looked at.


*EDIT*
Why do I get a strong feeling that someone's next response will be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE TITAN CARDS?!?!!?"

I think I'll reserve the /EPIC FACEPALM for that remark... ;)

Given that most games today run maxed out on an R9 290X (4gig) and Titan(3gig) unless your running a 4K display, I think's it a bit premature to start talking about SLI/Crossfire cards that support more memory than that. Once the game is ported over, which will be a few years at least, then we can worry about memory and dual core GPUs.

Edit: Not saying this to anyone in particular. Just pointing out the obvious.

[Mistress Urd]

/facepalm

I swear... You must read my posts with bees literally stinging your eyeballs.

I will repost my own quote for your benefit, so maybe you will see that I specified a specific GB amount for laptops and a specific GB amount for desktops (using the phrase "up to"):

The point of it was if the "recommended" (not minimum) video card for the Unreal 4 engine to render out something comparable to that screenshot Codewalker said "I hope you have a lot of video RAM" for contains only 1GB of video RAM (not system RAM, video RAM), then I think that the current (or future) "standard" of video cards (which is around 2-4GB currently--higher for newer ones, which would be the "future standard" I was just mentioning) won't have a problem running whatever this new dev team chooses to create in the Unreal 4 engine (assuming they do, indeed, as Ironwolf says, create it in the Unreal 4 engine).

Also, I originally included the link for the laptop card talking about how many GB were on it (it's in the quote).

I can also include the desktop card link as well.

And get those bees looked at.


*EDIT*
Why do I get a strong feeling that someone's next response will be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE TITAN CARDS?!?!!?"

I think I'll reserve the /EPIC FACEPALM for that remark... ;)

*sigh* yeah, I know the feeling AO, but this is why we all love the internets right? Never a dull moment. I'll worry what video card to get when CoH2 comes out, no doubt 2 years from now the cards will be faster and cheaper. Until then I stick with what I have.

[AlienOne]

Given that most games today run maxed out on an R9 290X (4gig) and Titan(3gig) unless your running a 4K display, I think's it a bit premature to start talking about SLI/Crossfire cards that support more memory than that. Once the game is ported over, which will be a few years at least, then you can worry about memory and dual core GPUs.

/EPIC FACEPALM

There 'ya go.

That was EXACTLY my point.

I will say it again... If today's AVERAGE video card (standard is around 2-3 GBs) is double to triple what the Unreal 4 engine's "recommended" system requirements (for video memory) are... Then in two to three years when this dev team finishes a CoH 2, I don't think we'll have a problem with video memory. This is (again) going off of Codewalker's comment "I hope you have plenty of video RAM."

Why? When average systems can run exactly what that screenshot had in it... What would be the problem? Does anyone really think that in 2 to 4 years there would be a massive problem with people running something built on the Unreal 4 engine because they have poor video RAM specs? In 2-4 years from now, the "average" computer user will have double the amount of video ram. In 2-4 years, there will possibly even be an Unreal engine 5. In 2-4 years, I don't think we'll be hearing someone say "I hope you have plenty of video RAM" when someone's talking about firing up CoH 2 with graphics that (hopefully) look like what that screenshot had.

[Fanta]

*sigh* yeah, I know the feeling AO, but this is why we all love the internets right? Never a dull moment. I'll worry what video card to get when CoH2 comes out, no doubt 2 years from now the cards will be faster and cheaper. Until then I stick with what I have.

I still use an AMD 6870 that ran ultra mode pretty well.

[Mistress Urd]

Given that most games today run maxed out on an R9 290X (4gig) and Titan(3gig) unless your running a 4K display, I think's it a bit premature to start talking about SLI/Crossfire cards that support more memory than that. Once the game is ported over, which will be a few years at least, then we can worry about memory and dual core GPUs.

Edit: Not saying this to anyone in particular. Just pointing out the obvious.

My monitor is a 2560x1440 and there are still lots of people using 1366x768 laptop screens. 1080p is still a very common "mid" level screen and folks are not so keen on giving up their $99 1080p screens for 4k ones. They haven't moved to 1440p ones yet. 4k screens will be really nice someday soon (tm) but I'm not going to overpay for a not so great one now.

So yeah, nothing to worry about now.  :P

[AlienOne]

I still use an AMD 6870 that ran ultra mode pretty well.

That card can run anything on Unreal engine 3 and most likely is also able to fire up the Unreal engine 4 editor as well.

[Mistress Urd]

I still use an AMD 6870 that ran ultra mode pretty well.

Funny, I have the same card, proof great minds buy the same stuff.  :)

Edit: it ran 2560x1440 Ultra mode no problem.

[AlienOne]

My monitor is a 2560x1440 and there are still lots of people using 1366x768 laptop screens. 1080p is still a very common "mid" level screen and folks are not so keen on giving up their $99 1080p screens for 4k ones. They haven't moved to 1440p ones yet. 4k screens will be really nice someday soon (tm) but I'm not going to overpay for a not so great one now.

So yeah, nothing to worry about now.  :P

Yeah, the only reason I'd go to 4k is if I needed it for my professional video editing work... Right now, 4k is really only good for archival purposes (as well as editing in a much-sharper 1080p)... Television stations don't even broadcast in 1080p, so I don't see what the whole craze on 4k is about unless you're like me and have a legitimate reason for wanting to shoot something in 4k. Even then, I don't need to view it in 4k--I just want 4k sharpness to edit a 1080p product.

[MWRuger]

/facepalm

I swear... You must read my posts with bees literally stinging your eyeballs.

I will repost my own quote for your benefit, so maybe you will see that I specified a specific GB amount for laptops and a specific GB amount for desktops (using the phrase "up to"):

The point of it was if the "recommended" (not minimum) video card for the Unreal 4 engine to render out something comparable to that screenshot Codewalker said "I hope you have a lot of video RAM" for contains only 1GB of video RAM (not system RAM, video RAM), then I think that the current (or future) "standard" of video cards (which is around 2-4GB currently--higher for newer ones, which would be the "future standard" I was just mentioning) won't have a problem running whatever this new dev team chooses to create in the Unreal 4 engine (assuming they do, indeed, as Ironwolf says, create it in the Unreal 4 engine).

Also, I originally included the link for the laptop card talking about how many GB were on it (it's in the quote).

I can also include the desktop card link as well.

And get those bees looked at.


*EDIT*
Why do I get a strong feeling that someone's next response will be "DO YOU EXPECT US ALL TO HAVE TITAN CARDS?!?!!?"

I think I'll reserve the /EPIC FACEPALM for that remark... ;)

This is what you wrote that I was responding to:

The standard nowadays for any modern game is right around there, and the standard amount of video ram in any computer sold in the last few years has been at least 2GB (now it's up to 8GB last I saw for notebooks-- up to 12GB for desktops)... I don't believe having a lot of video RAM will be much of a problem, assuming they get this Unreal 4 engine-based game done 2-3 years from now...

Maybe it's as clear as glass to you, but you don't specify whether it is video ram or system ram and I was trying to ascertain which. Your followup reply didn't clarify anything.

You said earlier that people always misunderstood you on the old forums and it's easy to see why. You write something inexact or confusing or borderline offensive and when reader's try and parse it, and can't you get snarky and dismissive. You could have just answered my question or been more exact in your original post.


If we had an ignore button I would use it but we don't so I'll just have to ignore whatever you write instead. Reading what you write and trying to get clarification is very much like being stung by bees. You can endure it, but you shouldn't have to.

[Codewalker]

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