New efforts!

[Ironwolf]

This news isn't making me feel good; it's making me angry.

People have been whipped into a frenzy like dropping blood in a tank of pirahnas and now it's "we need to stop because it might not be sold". ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

EA still carries on their business practises despite MASSIVE negativity surrounding them, Microsoft carries on despite all the negativity of the Xbone and if NC is so scared of a few people chatting on FB about the "maybes" after a sale... then maybe news like this shouldn't be shared until after the deal is done.

You win the award for missing the point.

I gave out updates as a favor to the community and the new Devs let me, out of the kindness of their hearts.
So now we owe you something? NCSoft may possibly be a PARTNER of the new company! I don't know and neither do you. NCSoft did not like what happened the first time. They don't want a repeat. If the game stays closed - NCSoft has no problems. If people start spamming hate when the word goes out the game might reopen - why would they sell it? Why start the bad press again? Can you even see it from their point of view?

They didn't like what happened - they don't want it to happen again. If it happens again they may do what happened last time and pull out. Does any of this get through? I am trying to phrase this in different ways so it may sink in - NCSoft does NOT have to sell the game. NCSoft does not like all the rumblings again - so try and maintain some decorum - at least until the deal is over.

[LaughingAlex]

Freedom of speech applies to preventing government censoring of citizens speaking out against the government. Facebook can silence anything they want.

Freedom of speech does however apply indirectly to ISPs currently due to net neutrality.  Net neutrality by law ensures ISPs cannot take the measure of the great firewall of china(basically a super giant proxy filter that censors everything the chinese government wants) as ISPs could easily do that without net neutrality in place.  Net neutrality generally protects freedom of speech on the internet from both government and most corporations.  Facebook is half subject to that to somewhat, in fact sites like facebook and wikipedia depend on net neutrality to protect them as much as net neutrality protects people.

[Illusionss]

Given the amount of negativity expressed by some people over what the new devs might do with the game it may make NCsoft question the support the new devs really have for bringing the game back. After the bad publicity they received when they shut down CoH they may be sensitive to creating even more bad publicity for them themselves by selling it to people the CoH community hate.

1. If NC sells the game to the new buyers, it will be a done deal and a thing they no longer have any control over. Why would they even care? They'll have gotten *their* money and what happens next will be out of their ballpark. It wont be their problem. This seems like a win-win for them; the more I think about it, the more confused I get.

2. And I'm just sayin' this..... if NC thinks they have bad mojo from all this now, JUST LET the news get out that they scuttled the deal because faceless strangers were nattering on FB and boomshakalaka, they decide to go all Lucy-with-football-vs-Charlie-Brown with our game, YET AGAIN. Ha. What went before shall be as a minor brushfire. Rug-pulling v2.0 shall be as a direct nuclear strike.

I am not one of those commenting on FB and I don't have a dog in that fight, I am just saying, they need to understand the Age of the Internet. Its rather odd to me that they are suddenly this sensitive, when they sure didn't care much what we had to say back in the day.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SpLLL0aawRE%2FUHTf0e6rhQI%2FAAAAAAAAbqo%2FzlNsw67ILPk%2Fs320%2Fblog_lucy_football.jpg

Don't be doin' this, NC. Don't do it. Make yourselves some nice little moneys from a dead property, and improve your rep with gaming fans at the same time. Its easy. You can come out of this smelling like a rose.

[Codewalker]

1. If NC sells the game to the new buyers, it will be a done deal and a thing they no longer have any control over. Why would they even care? They'll have gotten *their* money and what happens next will be out of their ballpark. It wont be their problem. This seems like a win-win for them; the more I think about it, the more confused I get.

Because NCSoft is a control freak when it comes to things they ran and does not want to let go of them. I have a funny feeling that the only way they'd even consider selling a property would be if it was covered by a contract putting limitations on what the buyer could do with it.

Some rumblings that came out of the original buyout negotiations seemed to support that, as well info from one of the later efforts to buy it.

[gypsyav]

1. If NC sells the game to the new buyers, it will be a done deal and a thing they no longer have any control over. Why would they even care? They'll have gotten *their* money and what happens next will be out of their ballpark. It wont be their problem. This seems like a win-win for them; the more I think about it, the more confused I get.

2. And I'm just sayin' this..... if NC thinks they have bad mojo from all this now, JUST LET the news get out that they scuttled the deal because faceless strangers were nattering on FB and boomshakalaka, they decide to go all Lucy-with-football-vs-Charlie-Brown with our game, YET AGAIN. Ha. What went before shall be as a minor brushfire. Rug-pulling v2.0 shall be as a direct nuclear strike.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SpLLL0aawRE%2FUHTf0e6rhQI%2FAAAAAAAAbqo%2FzlNsw67ILPk%2Fs320%2Fblog_lucy_football.jpg

Don't be doin' this, NC. Don't do it. Make yourselves some nice little moneys from a dead property, and improve your rep with gaming fans at the same time. Its easy. You can come out of this smelling like a rose.

1. Will they view it as a win if they think instead of getting good PR from the sale they're going to get bad PR? Yes, they'll have their money but they might not like the hit to their reputation.

2. They didn't expect the firestorm they got last time. What makes you think they'll realize not selling the game will give them worse PR than if they sell it to someone the community hates? They could very well believe not selling it to be the better choice.

[okami]

Net neutrality generally protects freedom of speech on the internet from both government and most corporations.  Facebook is half subject to that to somewhat, in fact sites like facebook and wikipedia depend on net neutrality to protect them as much as net neutrality protects people.

When did FB become an ISP and thus subject to common carrier protections/requirements?

[FloatingFatMan]

Freedom of speech does however apply indirectly to ISPs currently due to net neutrality.  Net neutrality by law ensures ISPs cannot take the measure of the great firewall of china(basically a super giant proxy filter that censors everything the chinese government wants) as ISPs could easily do that without net neutrality in place.  Net neutrality generally protects freedom of speech on the internet from both government and most corporations.  Facebook is half subject to that to somewhat, in fact sites like facebook and wikipedia depend on net neutrality to protect them as much as net neutrality protects people.

/Epic Facepalm.

Stop throwing the words "Net Neutrality" around like you understand what it is.  It's pretty damn clear that you don't have a clue...

Facebook is a private entity. They can shut down chats if they -want- to, and there's sod all ANYONE could do about it.  Saying that, this isn't a free speech issue. It's just some folks asking some other folks to cool it down a bit.

[Codewalker]

Freedom of speech does however apply indirectly to ISPs currently due to net neutrality.

...

Net neutrality has nothing to do with content, it's about throttling bandwidth utilization based on the source of the traffic. In any event, no net neutrality laws have actually been passed in the US.

You may be thinking of common carrier status, but that only indemnifies the ISP against legal action for things such as copyright infringement. There's nothing that says they can't censor content if they're privately held, and some ISPs do. A few even market it to parents as "child-friendly" internet access. That only applies to actual carriers, though, and not websites.

TL;DR: Facebook can delete whatever they please, but Facebook is simply too big to even care unless there's a major outcry over something.

[Illusionss]

1. Will they view it as a win if they think instead of getting good PR from the sale they're going to get bad PR? Yes, they'll have their money but they might not like the hit to their reputation.

2. They didn't expect the firestorm they got last time. What makes you think they'll realize not selling the game will give them worse PR than if they sell it to someone the community hates? They could very well believe not selling it to be the better choice.

Because if they pull the rug yet again, its sure not going to enhance their reputation. It will have exactly the opposite effect, and that's a thing they need to think over very carefully. Enraging the playerbase yet again is not exactly going to be "good PR."

See, this is me: If I ran NC, I'd be all "I AM SO TIRED OF THESE PEOPLE!! Get a good price from them, give them their Big Red Ball and a POX ON THEIR HOUSES!!! GO AWAY CoX PEOPLE! STOP BUGGING ME!!!! *wiping sweat from face* Now tell me about how Blade and Soul sales are doing, please."

[Well, if I ran NC we would not be in the fix we're in now. But you see what I'm saying... hopefully  8) ]

[Harpospoke]

I'm just really hoping that Luke and Spider-man will eventually team up in a Kingdom Hearts game, sine they're now both apart of the Mouse House

Fun...but Sony still owns Spidey unfortunately.   I wish Marvel could get the rights back before Sony completely destroys the character.

[Harpospoke]

I'm totally gonna go to the AE and play all those Willy Wonka arcs again... uhm, that is, if all the AE content got preserved and was able to be brought back online along with everything else. Sigh.

Hopefully the person who originally posted them will return.  I've still got my AE arcs saved.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

TL;DR: Facebook can delete whatever they please, but Facebook is simply too big to even care unless there's a major outcry over something.

Really, It's not much different from say...a Titan mod coming along and deleting a bunch of posts for whatever reason. -shrugs-

Fun...but Sony still owns Spidey unfortunately.

I think Sony only owns the rights to Spider-Man movie properties, I could be mistaken however.

[MWRuger]

Freedom of speech does however apply indirectly to ISPs currently due to net neutrality.  Net neutrality by law ensures ISPs cannot take the measure of the great firewall of china(basically a super giant proxy filter that censors everything the chinese government wants) as ISPs could easily do that without net neutrality in place.  Net neutrality generally protects freedom of speech on the internet from both government and most corporations.  Facebook is half subject to that to somewhat, in fact sites like facebook and wikipedia depend on net neutrality to protect them as much as net neutrality protects people.

That is not what Net Neutrality is about. It is about broadband companies offering a premier service to content providers that pay for it and allowing everyone else to be throttled. Net Neutrality has nothing to do with Freedom of speech. It has to do with providing free and equal access to service, not speech. Many countries have content filters and blocked site filters in place. Very common in fundamentalist countries and dictatorships. China is not the only offender and it's all completely legal, at least within it's borders.

No private entity, company or organization has to protect or allow free speech of any kind. In fact almost every one has some limitations on what you can discuss. For example, many sites don't let you talk about bootlegging videos or music. On this site you're not allowed to verbally attack another person. At my NPO you can't discuss online any party affiliation. Hell, they don't even want us to talk about it in person to each other at work!

Freedom of Speech is one of the rights I see misunderstood almost constantly. It comes everytime I'm on a forum and stick for something being removed because it is offensive or someone gets banned after being mod warned. No matter how many times I explain, they still don't get it.

[FloatingFatMan]

Because if they pull the rug yet again, its sure not going to enhance their reputation. It will have exactly the opposite effect, and that's a thing they need to think over very carefully. Enraging the playerbase yet again is not exactly going to be "good PR."

TBH, with responses like this, it would have been better if Ironwolf never said a thing and just surprised us with the news AFTER the deal was done.

I bet he's kicking himself a bit, now. :(

[MWRuger]

Too slow by half I see. Oh well, I did address a few other points so I'll leave it in.

[Illusionss]

TBH, with responses like this, it would have been better if Ironwolf never said a thing and just surprised us with the news AFTER the deal was done.

I bet he's kicking himself a bit, now. :(

How is my response in any way offensive?

I thought of it as stated in a calm, polite fashion.

[Angel Phoenix77]

You win the award for missing the point.

I gave out updates as a favor to the community and the new Devs let me, out of the kindness of their hearts.
So now we owe you something? NCSoft may possibly be a PARTNER of the new company! I don't know and neither do you. NCSoft did not like what happened the first time. They don't want a repeat. If the game stays closed - NCSoft has no problems. If people start spamming hate when the word goes out the game might reopen - why would they sell it? Why start the bad press again? Can you even see it from their point of view?

They didn't like what happened - they don't want it to happen again. If it happens again they may do what happened last time and pull out. Does any of this get through? I am trying to phrase this in different ways so it may sink in - NCSoft does NOT have to sell the game. NCSoft does not like all the rumblings again - so try and maintain some decorum - at least until the deal is over.

You are very much right Wolf, people need to know Nc does not need to sell this game, it is up to the buyers and layers to make this happen. And seeing people trash Nc is not going to help us in going home.
Wolf know that I respect what you and the team are doing, and I very much know both does not need to. If you stop posting updates I would be nervous but if it helps I would very much get behind this.

[FloatingFatMan]

Too slow by half I see. Oh well, I did address a few other points so I'll leave it in.

Some people, no matter how many times you try to explain it, just won't understand and continue to scream it at the top of their lungs.

It's like the NRA morons and their mindlessly dumb "open carry" demonstrations, walking down streets packing rifles and shotguns and scaring the crap out of normal people trying to go about their daily business.  They'd don't give a damn just as long as what they "think" their rights are, are exercised.

[MWRuger]

1. If NC sells the game to the new buyers, it will be a done deal and a thing they no longer have any control over. Why would they even care? They'll have gotten *their* money and what happens next will be out of their ballpark. It wont be their problem. This seems like a win-win for them; the more I think about it, the more confused I get.

2. And I'm just sayin' this..... if NC thinks they have bad mojo from all this now, JUST LET the news get out that they scuttled the deal because faceless strangers were nattering on FB and boomshakalaka, they decide to go all Lucy-with-football-vs-Charlie-Brown with our game, YET AGAIN. Ha. What went before shall be as a minor brushfire. Rug-pulling v2.0 shall be as a direct nuclear strike.

I am not one of those commenting on FB and I don't have a dog in that fight, I am just saying, they need to understand the Age of the Internet. Its rather odd to me that they are suddenly this sensitive, when they sure didn't care much what we had to say back in the day.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SpLLL0aawRE%2FUHTf0e6rhQI%2FAAAAAAAAbqo%2FzlNsw67ILPk%2Fs320%2Fblog_lucy_football.jpg

Don't be doin' this, NC. Don't do it. Make yourselves some nice little moneys from a dead property, and improve your rep with gaming fans at the same time. Its easy. You can come out of this smelling like a rose.

1. Their name will likely still be on it and we don't have a clue as to what other stipulations might be in play.

2. This is exactly the kind of thing that might make them leery. I know the minute someone threatens me I want to say "Oh Yeah? Bring it!" They could decline the deal and say there never was one and that they have no idea why a bunch of trouble makers said there was. They could also say "We have no interest in selling this property, now or ever." And this time that might be exactly true.

If one person at NCSoft takes hit for all the furor, well, why would they ever invite that kind of trouble again. It means they spent money on lawyers and translators for NOTHING.

Please stay calm and don't threaten NCSoft until you have a reason. You may be uttering a self fulfilling prophecy.

[sindyr]

Here's the thing re: NCSoft and Public Relations.

I'm pretty sure that if they do the right thing and do not impede those trying to resurrect it, many of us, even most of us, would be willing to call the past the past, and move on. I am one who had turned my back on the company and anything they had to do with, including GW2. I can't speak for the rest of those with an axe to grind with NCSoft, but if they assist these new devs with resurrecting this game, I'll bury the hatchet.

So it should be seen as a double edged sword, sure, NCSoft may be a little spooked at the new devs possibly upsetting the community with some of their choices - and maybe the new dev team will. Perhaps they'll break the game with a poor albeit well-meaning decision. From what Ironwolf has said, that's *extremely* unlikely, but you never know.

In any case, there would be ZERO ill will from me to NCSoft if it DID happen. It simply wouldn't be their fault. As far as I am concerned, once NCSoft permits the game to come back, assuming they have no strings attached that harm it, then even if the game yet fails, for me, NCSoft would be utterly IN THE CLEAR.

So, NCSoft people, if you ARE reading these posts, go ahead and give the game over to these nice new dev people. It will in all likelihood get you finally off the hook, no matter what happens next.