New efforts!

[mrultimate]

You really do need to read Ironwolf's posts...

The primary intent here is to bring the old game back, preferably with I24.  Immediately put it into maintenance mode, NO new development on it at all, and then commence work on CoH2. The buyers are after the IP far more than just the game itself.

You can lead a horse to water........................

[Baaleos]

Assuming the store returns and they're able to add new costume content, perhaps they could hold player voted competitions, and winners get put into the store as freebies?

That would seriously rock, IMO.

Im trying to think technical-wise : what sort of overhead would be involved in streaming a model and a texture to a client?
Were the costume model parts / textures huge in size?

In an ideal world, the textures and models for all creatures on the map could stream to you before they enter visibility range.

If  the models and textures per character are 500kb-1MB then it prob wouldnt be feasible.

Just trying to think of hypothetical custom content distribution mechanisms that would allow everyone to have their own content, and be able to see each others.

[hejtmane]

I admit COH would be awesome in unreal4 - but having difficulty imagining COH in it.
Guess im just used to the blocky graphics, and the comic book/sci-fi look of the city.
Ultra Realistic graphics was never one of the things that springs to mind with city of heroes.

Though it does make sense to move to a more recent engine, technology as far as graphic cards and cpu's have evolved. So should COH
These days the Graphic Cards that could allow Ultra graphics back 5-6 years ago, are sold as cheap as 30-40 dollars today.

With regards to getting the game running immediately in maintenance mode, while they port it over.
Realistically is this something the studios would agree to do?
It seems like it would be adding additional operating cost to them while they would be wanting to focus most of that revenue into COH2?
If they have said they intend to do this, fair enough: Just seems like 2 parallel work streams, which might drain their cash flow.
Although - as stated, the micro-transactions might bring in an added incentive in supplementing operating costs and add revenue for COH2 development.

They are also creating a built in group to switch over and build good will to the community

[Baaleos]

...

I don't like where this is going.  NCSoft has suddenly conveniently "lost" so many things.  As said, the game is mainly coded in C++, so why would it be so hard to update things?  Don't C++ programmers exist?  I'm an out-of-work C++ programmer who would be HAPPY to work on the game.
That doesn't really bode well, either.  I want to play City of Heroes, not some new game with the City of Heroes IP tacked on.  I loved Mega Man 2, but I can't stand Mega Man 8.  I tried it because of the IP, but the game itself didn't keep me playing.

As for "twelve-year-old engine" - it's not.  It was originally made twelve years ago, but it has constantly been updated and refurbished as the years went on.  I24 can do things that I1 couldn't even begin to do.  It can do things that I23 couldn't do thanks to the new LUA scripting that was going to be added.

CoH is a "twelve-year-old engine" in about the same sense that the MacOS is a "twenty-year-old OS".

A stack overflow page said  it was developed in C (an ancestor language of c++) - which might make it even harder to get developers for opposed to c++.
I guess all we can do is trust that the team acquiring it are aware of the skill requirements etc
Documentation and tools would help, but they probably wont be show stoppers, just end up adding additional costs to their maintenance.

[FloatingFatMan]

In an ideal world, the textures and models for all creatures on the map could stream to you before they enter visibility range.

If  the models and textures per character are 500kb-1MB then it prob wouldnt be feasible.

Just trying to think of hypothetical custom content distribution mechanisms that would allow everyone to have their own content, and be able to see each others.

That's not how CoH worked. All new content was in the regular patches that went out to us. They were then unlocked for you to use when you purchased them in the store.  All you get from other players is a costume part ID number (and colour code) so your client can display it whether you've bought it or not.

So a theoretical contest winner would get their entry packaged up into a patch and sent out with a regular update.

However, if the tools to make the patches are gone... This probably won't be possible. :(

[Scendera]

Just trying to think of hypothetical custom content distribution mechanisms that would allow everyone to have their own content, and be able to see each others.

It's a nice wish, but anything like that that's open eventually will be exploited with utterly devastating effects. It's simply not viable because a few ruin it for everyone.

Something akin to the SOE Player Worlshop could work, but for security reasons you never want to open the doors to unofficial content being sent via the game.

[Benchpresser]

...

I don't like where this is going.  NCSoft has suddenly conveniently "lost" so many things.  As said, the game is mainly coded in C++, so why would it be so hard to update things?  Don't C++ programmers exist?  I'm an out-of-work C++ programmer who would be HAPPY to work on the game.
That doesn't really bode well, either.  I want to play City of Heroes, not some new game with the City of Heroes IP tacked on.  I loved Mega Man 2, but I can't stand Mega Man 8.  I tried it because of the IP, but the game itself didn't keep me playing.

As for "twelve-year-old engine" - it's not.  It was originally made twelve years ago, but it has constantly been updated and refurbished as the years went on.  I24 can do things that I1 couldn't even begin to do.  It can do things that I23 couldn't do thanks to the new LUA scripting that was going to be added.

CoH is a "twelve-year-old engine" in about the same sense that the MacOS is a "twenty-year-old OS".

I don't think NC has "conviently" lost them... the game was sunsetted poorly.  Hell, even when Paragon was running they had a severe shortage of design notes! (see Bases...) 

The game itself, in order to survive... HAS to move to a new Engine, if for perception before anything else.  Gamers a a real.. clicquey group.  There are a lot out there who won't touch stuff unless it's X engine etc... and that sort of whisper on a net savvy group would be deadly. 

The base code may be C++, but it's been added to and customized with at least 3-4 other types of codes/apps... at this point it would be a massive undertaking to reverse-engineer it without tools & notes...

[Baaleos]

That's not how CoH worked. All new content was in the regular patches that went out to us. They were then unlocked for you to use when you purchased them in the store.  All you get from other players is a costume part ID number (and colour code) so your client can display it whether you've bought it or not.

So a theoretical contest winner would get their entry packaged up into a patch and sent out with a regular update.

However, if the tools to make the patches are gone... This probably won't be possible. :(

Not feasible/Possible with the old COH, suppose COH2 was developed with more flexibility in mind?
Its true, I cannot think of an MMO that granted this level of customization, but thats not to say a precedent cannot be set.

[FenrirEX]

...

I don't like where this is going.  NCSoft has suddenly conveniently "lost" so many things.  As said, the game is mainly coded in C++, so why would it be so hard to update things?  Don't C++ programmers exist?  I'm an out-of-work C++ programmer who would be HAPPY to work on the game.
That doesn't really bode well, either.  I want to play City of Heroes, not some new game with the City of Heroes IP tacked on.  I loved Mega Man 2, but I can't stand Mega Man 8.  I tried it because of the IP, but the game itself didn't keep me playing.

As for "twelve-year-old engine" - it's not.  It was originally made twelve years ago, but it has constantly been updated and refurbished as the years went on.  I24 can do things that I1 couldn't even begin to do.  It can do things that I23 couldn't do thanks to the new LUA scripting that was going to be added.

CoH is a "twelve-year-old engine" in about the same sense that the MacOS is a "twenty-year-old OS".

Megaman 8 had bigger problems than "not being Megaman 2".  Your comparison isn't necessarily valid; this is a team that's trying to get the IP AND apparently be true to the spirit of the original universe, not just a cash in or other money grab.  Yes, the engine has been updated, but you can't just attach a brand new graphics system to an old engine and make it work; despite not being a programmer, I imagine it's got to be easier to just go in and make a new engine instead of trying to make your old one connect.  You don't jerry-rig an RF connector to an HDMI port, to make an obtuse analogy.

If you want to be anxious, that's on you.  But the game IS old, and by updating the game, they can make changes to the game system they couldn't do with the old engine.  Just give them a chance, alright?

[FloatingFatMan]

Not feasible/Possible with the old COH, suppose COH2 was developed with more flexibility in mind?
Its true, I cannot think of an MMO that granted this level of customization, but thats not to say a precedent cannot be set.

There are several MMO's, Star Trek Online and Guild Wars, for example, which stream new zone content to you whilst it's loading.  A model like that works fairly well and avoids the HUGE lag problem that would exist doing it your way, but we're starting to wander off topic.  This thread isn't about things we could add, there's another thread for that...

[Ironwolf]

A lot of assumptions on the state of the game.

That is what the talks are about, what does the team get for the money? Conditions of sale are exactly where all of this is worked out. People are wondering if other studios are involved and what they may do - they can't do anything until the game is sold.

I know from initial conversations with the team leads NCSoft did not sunset the game well. The original source may not be available and instead it would be an image that needs to be reverse engineered partially to get it running. I personally don't know at what level the tools and documentation are at. I did hear that the tools may not be available from NCSoft - but also that this is not necessarily a bad thing.

A former dev may have a copy of the source/tools/documentation and be able to pass it to the new folks - I honestly don't know.

None of this matters until the sale is complete and honestly my involvement is just that - lets get the game back. I will leave the community to second guess and criticize them after that - all while I play with a large smile on my face. You know within the same day that the game is sold and anounce it - that people will be complaining, I won't be one of them :)

[drmanbot]

People are ALREADY complaining.

[Scendera]

There's a large difference between "streaming official content as you play" which is a pretty mature technology, and allowing *anything* between game clients that isn't from the servers.

[Felderburg]

2. User generated content is problematic for a number of reasons. First, it is difficult to adequately test it out against all other content. But mainly it means pushing through the data to everyone who could possibly interact with your character. Your cool new cape to be seen by the playbase would require a push to the entire server at a minimum. In something like Icon this is no problem as every change you could make is only client side. The live game would require access to server side. In general the benefits are outweighed by disadvantages. I can't think of any commercial MMO's that offer this.

While there's no MMO that has something like it, IMVU has a system where people can become developers, and create items for other people to use (and even make money off it!). I don't see why something like that couldn't work for an MMO, with a more stringent vetting process (an MMO can't cordon off certain items to adult subscribers like IMVU does). Baaleos's idea below of having people pay to get access to tools to create textures is a great one, and I think it could work. You could potentially just leave it there, and have players who pay create costumes or textures, but I would do something more like IMVU, where players could buy player-made items. A portion of the purchase money goes to the game, and a portion to the creator.

Assuming the base building system gets improved, you could also have players create pre-made bases in a similar manner. Just starter units, but pre-furnished and designed by other players with the time / skills to create them.

And as far as vetting products goes, at least one studio employee would be needed, but I thing pulling a page from STO's Foundry review process is a good choice here. Allow people to peruse "unapproved" costume items in Icon, with a big warning and notification that the item's they're seeing may be inappropriate. As an incentive, they can "pre order" those items at reduced cost, and get them once an item is approved. Players can then test not only for appropriateness, but for broken textures or clipping or whatever. Or maybe put new items on a special "adult" beta server, or something.

I actually wish they made it possible for more player contributions: Eg - Models, Power Sets etc

I'd even pay a subscription per year to be part of a Developer programme for them.
Eg: Apple Developer Programme - 100 dollars a year to have access to an API and tools to make content.

It would be cool if you could create your own content using their tools, test it locally, and then upload and have it accessible in a similar way to Architect
...
It would be awesome - every player could invent the powers they dreamed of!

It's one thing to have players create costume pieces or textures, but power sets are another animal entirely. Something like that I could see being a contest - winner gets their power set in the game, or something like that. With appropriate developer modification and balancing.

As for "twelve-year-old engine" - it's not.  It was originally made twelve years ago, but it has constantly been updated and refurbished as the years went on.  I24 can do things that I1 couldn't even begin to do.  It can do things that I23 couldn't do thanks to the new LUA scripting that was going to be added.

Yeah, it's my impression that LUA would allow even cooler missions and innovations to the game.

HOWEVER, it may be best to start fresh, depending on your point of view. Mixing old and new is in the nature of MMOs, but having everything be new right off the bat to benefit from cool ideas or programming isn't the worst thing ever. A game where some of the missions are older, "boring" kill X, visit contact, get X item linear things and other missions are newer with branching paths or other cool stuff, or where some powersets are straight "each attack does X damage" versus newer sets with things like Titan momentum or Dual Blades combos, isn't going to be as cool as a game where everything is awesome... depending on your point of view.

[Relitner]

People are ALREADY complaining.

Would it really be the internet without complaining?  ???

[Scendera]

While there's no MMO that has something like it, IMVU has a system where people can become developers, and create items for other people to use (and even make money off it!). I don't see why something like that couldn't work for an MMO, with a more stringent vetting process (an MMO can't cordon off certain items to adult subscribers like IMVU does). Baaleos's idea below of having people pay to get access to tools to create textures is a great one, and I think it could work. You could potentially just leave it there, and have players who pay create costumes or textures, but I would do something more like IMVU, where players could buy player-made items. A portion of the purchase money goes to the game, and a portion to the creator.

https://player-studio.soe.com/

[Relitner]

*snip*, but we're starting to wander off topic.  This thread isn't about things we could add, there's another thread for that...

Exactly! Let's stay on topic here.

When I was 14...  ;D

[okami]

Would it really be the internet without complaining?  ???

Not only the internet but an MMO on the internet.

I'm pretty sure those complainers can violate temporal causality at will.

[Posi Chimp]

A lot of assumptions on the state of the game.
...
None of this matters until the sale is complete and honestly my involvement is just that - lets get the game back. I will leave the community to second guess and criticize them after that - all while I play with a large smile on my face. You know within the same day that the game is sold and anounce it - that people will be complaining, I won't be one of them :)

Sounds great to me!  I see no reason to work on update to the CoH that was.  Bring it back at i23 or i24.  Either way is light years ahead of what we have now, which is nothing!  I'll happily pay my money to play the old game for as long as it's around.  If the new owners use that time and $$ to make CoH2 then so much the better.  Let's just get to the part where CoH is back and the complaining can start in earnest.   ;D

[FloatingFatMan]

Not only the internet but an MMO on the internet.

I'm pretty sure those complainers can violate temporal causality at will.

It's an inherent powerset.