New efforts!

[BadWolf]

OK, this is going to drive me nuts until I get an answer.

Rod Stewart takes care to note that only "if you want (his) body" AND "you find (him) sexy" should you "come on sugar, let (him) know". This clearly implies a potential expected scenario on Stewart's part where you could want his body, but not find him sexy, and he's explicitly cautioning against being informed should such an event occur.

WHY? Is he concerned that people might approach him wanting to spend the night with anyone, not just him specifically, and he's advising them that he's not interested in a joyless, mechanical approach to lovemaking? Is he concerned about the possibility that someone might want his body for other purposes, and warning off potential organ robbers? I need an answer, and I suspect that Stewart hasn't publicly spoken on the issue.

(And yes, I'm already aware that there might also be a scenario where someone might find him sexy, but not want his body. This seems pretty self-explanatory to me, so no need to comment.)

[Risha]

Just peeking in to say Hi!  Thanks, keep up the good work everyone (Team COH and Ironwolf).  Book is done, next book due at the end of the year.  I HAVE read all the comments, usually before I went to sleep at night.   People will ask me why I'm smiling and I'll whisper My Game Is Coming Back!  If not this go 'round, then the next.   I know I sound rah-rah, but my schedule has been hideous and just having the book done, and this to look forward to makes me euphoric...and the Voo Doo Donut shop.

[Dev7on]

A Krispy Kreme donut is the only thing that I've ever uttered the phrase to that "I want you inside me right now!"

Why won't you go to Faultline and get yourself some Drenched Donuts?  ;D

[chuckv3]

Voo Doo Donuts.  BANG!

Anybody who knows this place and is not living in Portland, OR, will stop there if passing within 100 miles.

Last summer I had the vegan crushed oreos doughnut, and my wife had the maple and bacon doughnut. Freaking awesome place.

[Dr. Bad Guy]

I believe that Iron Wolf should refer to himself in first person from now on.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Too much donuts in this thread lately, I counter with Swedish cinamon buns. They are probably the equivalent to donuts here  :D except we never eat them as breakfast. Only at coffee breaks.

https://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/gronbek/imagejpg1_zps69fe5ba0.jpg

Now those look good. One of my favorite pastries i used to get from a bakery in Pennsylvania was a lot like those but with a layer of poppyseed filling instead of cinnamon.
i find Dunkin' Donuts lacking compared to some of the donuts i've gotten at delis in lower Manhattan, but i still like them far more than Krispy Kremes. It might be because i've never had them hot and fresh, but i always found Krispy Kremes much too sweet and greasy. i like my donuts much less sugary.

[Deadflame2]

I really don't see this as reasonable.
There may be no point in developing NEW types of power expressions, but the powers themselves are just entries in a database, and that has to be pretty much some standard format... SQL, most likely. It would be quite possible, for example, to make Issue 25, where they port Cold Domination with 1 or 2 powers changed to MMs, and Illusion to Dominators. Add in some more powerset changes and such, and without new animations, you can probably run several issues.

Too many assumptions on your part to form any sort of logical reasoning behind.  Codewalker already explained the SQL thing, so don't really need to bother discussing it further.  As for what is/isn't reasonable, really isn't up to us to decide.  At this point, Ironwolf has explained that the goal of the new devs is to get the game up and running (preferably i24) and from there, develop CoH2.  Time, man power and finances would be much better utilized under a new engine.  There's no benefit to the buyers to waste time and money on trying to decode the innards of CoH.

I personally have several ideas on how to make "sub-ATs" with existing powers that requires nothing more than updating the database for the new sets, and testing for balance (not like balance is all that difficult when re-using existing powers). They could EASILY fill 4-6 issues at 4 powersets per issue.

Ideas which could certainly work on the new engine, since they'll be building the game from scratch.  There were custom tools built to deal with CoH and it's aging engine/code.  Those tools (As of this moment) aren't available as of right now.  Even if the buyers get CoH, the chances of those tools being included are slim to none.  Once again, way too much time and wasted money to figure it all out, when CoH2 would allow them to build such tools directly into the engine.

Now, new coding, I can see that being ignored. And I can see, just maybe, that they might not create new powers that require any different kind of mechanism than already exists in some other power. But moving existing powers around, maybe some new versions that don't exist yet but don't actually use new effects (say, a Wind powerset that uses Hurricane but has Knockdown without the repel), that is easily doable.

I get what you're trying to say.  The problem is not just mechanics and new animations would absolutely be necessary.  The animations in CoH are pretty well connected to their powers and I don't think it would be doing the game any justice to just start renaming animations and slapping random uses to those powers/animations.  I'm also finding hard to believe you'd want to just slap this stuff around without the work put into it the game and the community deserves.

Now, add in another possibility: what if they get hold (or find that it's not hard to make) the tools with which to link new mobile statistics to some existing mobile graphics. For example, copy Necromancy, but change the graphics that the henchmen use. I assume that they can definitely access the mob database in some way, so they can then change the stats of the mobs. Presto, you can make a new MM powerset called Ghost Summoning (distinguished from the physical undead summoned by Necromancy).

As it stands, they are simply buying a snapshot of the (possibly) functioning game.  No tools.  They may be able to (at most), start up the game server(s) and whatever runs, runs.  However, they will most likely have to do a bit of jimmy rigging to get the game up and running.  That's the most they should be focusing on.

How much would this cost? Frankly, I'd do it as a part-timer at industry standard rates for a programmer, plus offer a discount. Between a discount and being part-time, figure that's half a normal employee cost. If they add in one other employee who does graphics design (this is a real question mark, though, because the graphics might not be in an easily accessible format), for 1.5 salaries, you end up with enough new powersets for years. You won't get TRUE new issues since there won't be new zones and such, but you can get new development that will easily pay for itself just with the store fees for the new powersets.

Programmers should be hired to port the game over to a new more accessible engine.  It makes absolutely no sense at all to waste time or money on an engine that can't be controlled 100%.

[Serpine]

The animations in CoH are pretty well connected to their powers and I don't think it would be doing the game any justice to just start renaming animations and slapping random uses to those powers/animations.

Well, power customization had already introduced a number of alternate character animations for certain powers (some scavenged from other powers), so the non-particle components of power usage were already becoming somewhat disjoined. Beyond color, in some cases the particle generation was impacted as well. So some repurposing for further sets doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

[Deadflame2]

Well, power customization had already introduced a number of alternate character animations for certain powers (some scavenged from other powers), so the non-particle components of power usage were already becoming somewhat disjoined. Beyond color, in some cases the particle generation was impacted as well. So some repurposing for further sets doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

Of course it doesn't sound unreasonable when you erroneously assume it's as simple as copy and pasting previous powers.  The issues is, it really isn't that simple.  Power customization (which is actually just recoloring) did not change the animations.  The particles are recolored.  What is being suggested is literally taking a power and slapping on a new name.  That sort of devalues the powers in my opinion.  Sure we could take Hurricane, copy and past it, change it's name to Worm Hole.  You could probably even reverse the repel and have them drag the mobs directly towards you.  But why?  That's time and energy that could be spent on the new engine.  It makes no feasible sense business wise.  It's also not really in alignment with the goals of the buyers.

That's also ignoring the very big assumption that anything at all can be altered in any way.  From numbers to animations to power names etc.

[Battlechimp]

Eh. They tried moving into Minnesota, they couldn't compete with SuperMom's (the donuts available at the SuperAmerica convenience stores). They were twice the price, half the size, and not as fluffy. Plus SuperMom's does cake donuts for those who prefer it. We sent 'em packing.

I used to have to drive past a Krispy Kreme every morning on the way to work... and a Bakers Square.  The Krispy Kreme did eventually close. So that temptation was gone... but did you know that Bakers Square has a drive through pie window?!? 

[Power Gamer]

I used to have to drive past a Krispy Kreme every morning on the way to work... and a Bakers Square.  The Krispy Kreme did eventually close. So that temptation was gone... but did you know that Bakers Square has a drive through pie window?!?

I may have to move to Bakers Square!

[blacksly]

Too many assumptions on your part to form any sort of logical reasoning behind.  Codewalker already explained the SQL thing, so don't really need to bother discussing it further.  As for what is/isn't reasonable, really isn't up to us to decide.  At this point, Ironwolf has explained that the goal of the new devs is to get the game up and running (preferably i24) and from there, develop CoH2.  Time, man power and finances would be much better utilized under a new engine.  There's no benefit to the buyers to waste time and money on trying to decode the innards of CoH.

Do you really think that there are no coders out there who have an idea of the internal data structure of the powers? How did they get the data out into Mid's, for example? Now, I agree, if there is nothing out there, it may not be worth developing... but from several comments on different boards at different times, I do think that it is possible to get the data out. As long as the people who have been looking at it are willing to come forward and help... and I don't think that's an unlikely scenario. It is based on assumptions, but they are not wishful thinking. There are plenty of reasons to believe that the powers can be put into a database that can then be directly worked with, and then put back into the code.

I get what you're trying to say.  The problem is not just mechanics and new animations would absolutely be necessary.  The animations in CoH are pretty well connected to their powers and I don't think it would be doing the game any justice to just start renaming animations and slapping random uses to those powers/animations.  I'm also finding hard to believe you'd want to just slap this stuff around without the work put into it the game and the community deserves.

Well, as for the "work put into it", that may be a point or it may not. It would depend on how good the person writing the set/power at first is at game balance, and then on the testing. We did have several sets come out rather bleargh even with the full team on them, but I do think that making them at least at a reasonable level is quite possible. There is nothing wrong with "just slapping the stuff around" as long as that's a first draft used for testing... after that, the usual community responses will be quite a good amount of feedback to smooth out the set before live release.

On the other side, you're kind of right that it would do the 24 issues justice to just re-use animations, but given the option of nothing new vs re-packaged animations that at least create new sets with new playstyles, I think that repackage > nothing. Also, do you remember how many different powers use the Bonesmasher/Seismic Smash animation? And now, with several new options for animations on a good amount of attacks, it's possible to proliferate a lot and still keep a new set looking new.

As it stands, they are simply buying a snapshot of the (possibly) functioning game.  No tools.  They may be able to (at most), start up the game server(s) and whatever runs, runs.  However, they will most likely have to do a bit of jimmy rigging to get the game up and running.  That's the most they should be focusing on.

That's what they're looking to get, now... and that's what they should be looking to get, now. But after it's gotten, and the game is started, and accounts/characters are ironed out... by then, who knows what will be found? As I said above, I have reason to believe that there it at least the opportunity for someone to come out and help with some tools even if they're reverse-engineered rather than original. In any case, it would be even be a question until a few months after start, which is at best months away. I just do not think that they need to buy the game, start it, and STOP.

Programmers should be hired to port the game over to a new more accessible engine.  It makes absolutely no sense at all to waste time or money on an engine that can't be controlled 100%.

That depends. Certainly the main goal of the studio should be to work on the next version. But that's usually 2 years away at best. Maybe if they do very little changing, and just work a 99% port or so, they could get it done sooner. That's still a long time with nothing new. Now, let's consider something:
They have a studio, and they are working on the next engine. They ALSO have additional funds, or can get some from investors. This is a safe assumption. Now, do they add more people into the CoH2 team? Sometimes that doesn't help that much. Or, if they have funds lying around, they may do a cost-benefit analysis, determine that it would cost $50k to hire someone to develop 4 new powersets... and that, even without the additional life put into the game for full subscribers, just the individual set purchases are going to make them $60k over the 2 years that they plan to run CoH1. At that point, why not make the additional hire specifically to develop those powersets for CoH1?

You got something right. There are a lot of assumptions here. But they are all reasonable both in regards to the CoH code situation and in regards to business... if you're running a game for 2 years while working on the successor, isn't it a GOOD idea to keep adding to the first game, even at a greatly reduced pace, just to prevent player bleed? You don't want them deciding that there's nothing new in CoH1, then trying another game and getting hooked on it. You want them staying in CoH1, happily waiting for CoH2, and you will have more remaining if you provide a bit of new content. So I really don't understand why I see the idea of continued CoH1 development dismissed so strongly. I just do not understand the idea that if you're going to run a game for 2 years, you're not going to turn a profit from adding some new content to it. You don't have to run a full studio to add bits of content, a couple of new powersets every 3 months, etc.

[blacksly]

The issues is, it really isn't that simple.  Power customization (which is actually just recoloring) did not change the animations. 

Actually, he and I are talking mostly about new animations such as getting the Ground Punch animation option for Footstomp. Or the snipe animation where you build up the power and then step forward and fire from one hand instead of the usual two-hand snipe power release. Those are new, and not used as the base animation for too many powers (or any? besides the proposed Radiation Melee set?)

[ukaserex]

To be fair, the length of time they spend actually in the oven is miniscule. It's literally a minute or two just to solidify the icing.

This is scary. An oven should melt icing, not solidify it. At least, a turned on oven, anyway. I've worked for years in the donut biz. Dunkin' would take the cooked donut ring, let it cool, and literally take a knife and spread chocolate icing on it.

Daylight Donuts will take the donut, let it cool, and then place the cool donut in a small pan filled with heated chocolate icing.

A smaller chain I worked at as a younger man, Tastee Donuts, would take the hot donut, let the shortening drain for about 20-30 seconds and slide the entire screen of donuts into a large pan of chocolate frosting and carefully remove the donuts, two at a time and place them on a pan to cool.

So, that makes me wonder what kind of scary thing (or miraculous not so scary thing) are they putting in their chocolate icing that it doesn't melt when exposed to heat....

In just two days, a new donut shop will come to Mobile, AL called "Lickin' Good Donuts". The chain comes from the Louisiana area, if I'm not mistaken. Looking forward to learning how they do things as well.

[Noyjitat]

OK, I've just seen something to put on the wishlist for CoH2!

THIS character creator!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP4L1vHfpk

Beautiful characters

[GenericHero05]

Why won't you go to Faultline and get yourself some Drenched Donuts?  ;D

I would gladly trade in all my Krispy Kreme vouchers to be able to play in Faultline again.

[Kaos Arcanna]

So let's say everythiing goes the way we'd want, and a deal is made and the New Devs get the property by the end of August.

Assuming that NcSoft isn't able to cough up a working copy of the game and the New Devs only get a disk image of the game, the snapshot, how long would it take them to make a working copy of the game out of that?

Would it be plausible to have something up and running in six months? A year? Somewhere in between or maybe longer?

I'm just curious. :D

[DocHornet]

https://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/dochornet/soonsally_zpsb91cb736.jpg

My favorite badge... :)

[Nealix]

OK, this is going to drive me nuts until I get an answer.

Rod Stewart takes care to note that only "if you want (his) body" AND "you find (him) sexy" should you "come on sugar, let (him) know". This clearly implies a potential expected scenario on Stewart's part where you could want his body, but not find him sexy, and he's explicitly cautioning against being informed should such an event occur.

WHY? Is he concerned that people might approach him wanting to spend the night with anyone, not just him specifically, and he's advising them that he's not interested in a joyless, mechanical approach to lovemaking? Is he concerned about the possibility that someone might want his body for other purposes, and warning off potential organ robbers? I need an answer, and I suspect that Stewart hasn't publicly spoken on the issue.

(And yes, I'm already aware that there might also be a scenario where someone might find him sexy, but not want his body. This seems pretty self-explanatory to me, so no need to comment.)

I think he was just horny and trying to sell records...

[Fanta]

https://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/dochornet/soonsally_zpsb91cb736.jpg

My favorite badge... :)

Poor Sally, never hurt anyone. Well, maybe some fish.