New efforts!

[Thunder Glove]

NCSoft selling the IP but keeping the engine is not like buying a document and having to look for a new word processor to open it in; it's more like NCSoft keeping the document, but selling the outline and notes that the document was written from.  The outline would be a big help, but we'd still have to both find a new word processor and write a whole new document from scratch based on the outline, our memories, and nothing else.

That said... I may be sounding pessimistic in this thread, but I am interested to see where this is going, and I am glad we're being kept up to date.  I just want to make sure that I'm excited for the right reason, and that everyone is on the same page as far as the reasons to get excited.

[NightWolf]

The good news - things are moving forward. They have been given a price for the game - I don't know what that price is but it is within a decent range apparently.

This is interesting news. The next big question is: Do they have the money or resources to get the money together, are they willing to pay that price for what they will get (as we don't know exactly what has been negotiated) and what are the next steps gonna be. Of course only time will tell, but it is interesting to think about. Personally I think it's great that they have been able to approach NCsoft and got a price. Let's hope this will be start of something promising.

[Ironwolf]

I am trying to keep you updated because I find it exciting too!

The fact that this has moved so rapidly forward is really a surprise to me, I know it may slow down once they start talking as the framework to go forward is laid out. I guess it is all down to what plans if any NCSoft now has for CoH - if they consigned it to the dead software locker - coming along after a year and not having the same people in place as earlier (on both sides) might make this a no brainer for them.

They might say xxx dollars for something we don't expect to use is better than nothing - something we all have been saying now for what 16 months?

Heck, for all we know they might say $250,000 and it's yours.

[MWRuger]

My desire is simple. I want to play City of Heroes again. That's all.

Private Server? Sure,  fire it up and let's get to arresting bad guys or thwarting heroes!

Restored as a F2P or PtP MMO? Of course! send me a link so I can sign up.

Solo Only Single Player? Naturally! Not as good as the others, but better than what I have now.

Spiritual Successor? I'll give it a whirl. No way to tell until you play it if it is a new home or not.

I don't know if any of these can truly restore what we had in COH. I don't know if anything will come from this latest effort or not. I suppose this could all be a cruel, elaborate grief. But, true or not, successful or not how could we ever know unless we try?

I am happy to admit to feeling hopeful. Certainly, it's safer to quash any sunny impulse that may flicker within you, but all that does is give you a constant low background hum of endless despair. You can live that way, but why would you want to?

So I say, bring it! Bring the slim chance, the impossible, the unlikely, the difficult, the monstrously huge task of getting the City back. What tales we will have to tell! It may take months or years. But consider this, how old will you be in five years if you don't try?

[Triage IV]

WOW, thank you, Ironwolf...and friends behind the veil.

Just curious...in saying, "They have been given a price for the game," by "game"are you meaning the IP, engine, both, neither?

Even after all this discussion and explanation on IPs and engines and code, my brain is just not hard wired to even BEGIN to comprehend what any of this means...and, truthfully, I don't care...just that things are looking better and better...AND, with this last message, SO much more promising than EVER before.

/em calm down

"Breathe, Triage, breathe..." 

/em hyperventilate

Where's a paper bag when you need one?

This is like those old Mega Bucks commercials with Robyn Leach saying, "JUST IMAGINE!"  All this news is truly champagne wishes and caviar dreams.  Just being able to dream, WHAT IF, has been a welcome distraction!

Thank you for what you have been able to pass on to us.  And, thank you for everything you and the heroes and heroines behind the scenes have been doing for our community. 

This is just AMAZING!

[Solitaire]

Sorry folks I have been away from the thread a few days as I have a new house, barn and 7 acres of land to tend to!

Understand you could get the code and NOT use the same engine. You could convert it and have all of the same mechanics and even more. The good news - things are moving forward. They have been given a price for the game - I don't know what that price is but it is within a decent range apparently.

I honestly don't have a time period but the folks doing this love the game as much as we do.

This is interesting news, fingers crossed all goes well.

[Azrael]

[Angel Phoenix77]

NCsoft bought a license for the Cryptic engine 'in perpetuity', meaning they could use it for CoH for as long as they needed to, and were allowed to add to/change/remove from it with impunity.

thank you for clearing this up for me.

[ShadowMokadara]

We can't use kickstarter to fund ourselves to buy the rights to City of Heroes.

[Azrael]

Sorry folks I have been away from the thread a few days as I have a new house, barn and 7 acres of land to tend to!

Understand you could get the code and NOT use the same engine. You could convert it and have all of the same mechanics and even more. The good news - things are moving forward. They have been given a price for the game - I don't know what that price is but it is within a decent range apparently.

I honestly don't have a time period but the folks doing this love the game as much as we do.

If they have the love for the game that the community has?  Game on.

As outlined in my post above, I now see a scenario where you could get the code but not be allowed to use the engine.  (There may be legality of them passing on a perpetual license from Cryptic.  I don't know.  I'm guessing there...)  So I can see that they could sell on the game IP and assets with code and it would be up to the new team to port it to a more modern engine.  i.e. translate those 'hard wire' api/functionality tendril hooks or emulate them as a bridge to a more modern engine.

(I can kinda see what Ironwolf is saying there.)

That, people, opens more options and doors for CoH to move forward.  In fact, even if they acquired the engine...it would still be a good idea to port the assets to a modern engine for the future of the game.  Even if they could acquire and use the original engine and let us play the game as it was.  Either way.  We'd get the game back in time.  But porting to Unreal 4 engine would open up a 'we can have our cake and eat it situation.'

Azrael.

I really do feel the same way.

This weekend I was extremely busy hanging a new 12x12 barn door, mowing 7 acres and doing general winter pickup and so I didn't get on the computer for more than a few minutes. I logged in this morning to see that things are looking good - but in all sales there may be a hitch that causes it to fall through. In this case if it does fail - I think we will know why and if it can be worked around in a different effort.

I really do wish I could share everything but the reason people are telling me stuff is that I do filter it.

You are wise to filter it.  Negotiations can be like 'glass' as we found out last time around... 

And your point is sound.  i.e. that even if talks fail, we'll know why this time and that would be a massive stumbling block overturned...

Good luck with those 7 acres.  Sounds like paradise.

[ShadowMokadara]

If they have the love for the game that the community has?  Game on.

As outlined in my post above, I now see a scenario where you could get the code but not be allowed to use the engine.  (There may be legality of them passing on a perpetual license from Cryptic.  I don't know.  I'm guessing there...)  So I can see that they could sell on the game IP and assets with code and it would be up to the new team to port it to a more modern engine.  i.e. translate those 'hard wire' api/functionality tendril hooks or emulate them as a bridge to a more modern engine.

There would be no legalities from Cryptic. It's been stated before that the engine Cryptic uses in CO/STO/NW is different than the one tied to City of Heroes. NCsoft entirely owns City of Heroes' code, which is directly intertwined with the engine and vise verse. They are literally the same thing in this case. Cryptic would have no say in what happens to the CoH code or who gets it because they already sold it to NCsoft.

Except that there's no difference between the two. The code is the engine is the engine is the code.

COH is not like most games these days where they buy a prebuilt engine and add their own logic on top of it, often managed code like C# and Java, or even JavaScript.

When it was developed, MMOs were in their infancy. No suitable engine for such a game existed. The engine that was created for COH has no separation from the game itself. All of the logic is hardcoded into the engine, since it's not an off the shelf product -- it's something that was developed exclusively for COH.

[Cobra Man]

There would be no legalities from Cryptic. It's been stated before that the engine Cryptic uses in CO/STO/NW is different than the one tied to City of Heroes. NCsoft entirely owns City of Heroes' code, which is directly intertwined with the engine and vise verse. They are literally the same thing in this case. Cryptic would have no say in what happens to the CoH code or who gets it because they already sold it to NCsoft.

This is what I thought and why I'm a bit confused about the statement that the IP will be bought without the engine.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Based on what I understand NCSoft leased the engine from Cryptic, they don't own it. If I leased a 2012 car from a dealership, I can't sell that car beause I don't own it.

As for the subject of moving the game to a new engine... The code that drives the game logic would have to be coded from scratch. I don't think there's any way around that.
Lets say...even in the extremely unlikely event that all the CoH source just happened to be created in C++ (which is the language used for Unreal 4) then I'm sure that it's prolly so tightly coded to work in the CoH engine that trying to modify the code to run in UE4 would prolly take just as long to do as simply re-writing it.
(I should note that I'm not a programmer, altho I do have something resembling knowing what I'm talking about)


Azrael, That is a project I started not long after the servers closed that I've neglected a little too much called Atlas Park Revival. Basically I'm taking the CoH assets...Models, textures, etc... Cleaning them up a little in 3DS Max, and sticking them into UE4. In some cases I've built new assets from the ground up (I built the model I'm using for the War Walls from scratch).
While It's currently lacking in the code dept. it's a decent look at the idea of CoH in a newer engine.

[ShadowMokadara]

Based on what I understand NCSoft leased the engine from Cryptic, they don't own it. If I leased a 2012 car from a dealership, I can't sell that car beause I don't own it.

I thought it was more they fully bought the engine, but still have to credit Cryptic for it, which is why the Cryptic logo still showed in the log in screen after NCsoft started publishing City of Heroes. I could be wrong, though.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Even if someone just got the rights to the IP that'd be something that'd present the possibility of COH opening again.

[Tubbius]

Here's hoping, folks.  I'll be hoping and praying on this one.  Ironwolf, best wishes to you and your companions.

NCSoft, please let my Waddle the Penguin go again so he can get back to his lovably pithy statements of "Waddle hate snowmans!" and "Waddle hero!"

[dwturducken]

We can't use kickstarter to fund ourselves to buy the rights to City of Heroes.

There are other ways to crowdfund, but that hasn't been floated, unless I missed something. The current effort appears to be more "professional," involving backers and business plans and all that kind of stuff.

[ShadowMokadara]

There are other ways to crowdfund, but that hasn't been floated, unless I missed something. The current effort appears to be more "professional," involving backers and business plans and all that kind of stuff.

Ahh. I just thought I had read someone suggesting kickstarter is all. That's what the comment was aimed at.

[Ironwolf]

The only word I had on the price was - Doable.

[HEATSTROKE]

 well a price is a start.. hopefully it will continue to move forward..