New efforts!

[FloatingFatMan]

Agreed.  Excellent point.

You should be able to keep the game 'alive' with an offline mode even if they shut down the 'MMO' side of things.

It would be great to play off line solo or hook up with a team of up to 5-8 over a LAN or peer to peer duo-ing over the internet.

I look at Unreal Tournament which had that kind of 'offline' game with LAN capability and that was all those years ago.

I think players should expect and demand this.  And if Developers don't play ball punish them by not buying their product.  Especially when you're investment has been up to £1000.  You've payed for the game many, many times over.  In time and money.

Sure.  You don't get the 'MMO' side when a game shuts down but you should expect an offline mode with LAN.

Azrael.

It's my opinion that, when an MMO is shut down, the makers should have to provide the server software for people to create their own servers. It's fine to charge for it, as long as it's a reasonable fee, but they shouldn't be able to take a game away from people that have paid for it.

[LaughingAlex]

It's my opinion that, when an MMO is shut down, the makers should have to provide the server software for people to create their own servers. It's fine to charge for it, as long as it's a reasonable fee, but they shouldn't be able to take a game away from people that have paid for it.

I wholly agree with you there, I think that should be true of any mmorpg, at this point.  It is rather infuriating to pay money for a game and then never ever be able to play it again after a certain time span.  It's partly why many are so against the always online DRMs.

[Ohioknight]

It's my opinion that, when an MMO is shut down, the makers should have to provide the server software for people to create their own servers. It's fine to charge for it, as long as it's a reasonable fee, but they shouldn't be able to take a game away from people that have paid for it.

Intellectual Property law should never be used to keep IP AWAY from the public

[Fable]

Intellectual Property law should never be used to keep IP AWAY from the public

Easy to say when you don't really have an IP worth fighting for. Im not trying to be a dick, but come on man, that had to taste a lie just writing it out. If I have an IP that's worth money then I have every right to protect it.

I don't I might misunderstanding you, I hope I am.

[houtex]

No, you undertstood it correctly.  The reason for IP law is to protect the creator/maker/investor from both copycats as well as thieves.  Like it or not in the case of CoH. 

It also allows the c/m/i to just horde it for themselves if they possibly can.  And they can in this case.  Which is the shame of it, in that we can't enjoy it while they have the attitude of 'not only screw you, but SCREW. YOU. TO. HELL.'

I paraphrased that last, of course.  Until the group is successful in moving the IP from NCSoft, I must admit that's the only thing I can think NCSoft is thinking, for whatever reason they're doing so.

[Ohioknight]

Easy to say when you don't really have an IP worth fighting for. Im not trying to be a dick, but come on man, that had to taste a lie just writing it out. If I have an IP that's worth money then I have every right to protect it.

I don't I might misunderstanding you, I hope I am.

IP rights are a temporary license granted by the community to the creators of IP so that they can receive the benefits of selling access to their creations, ideas, and inventions. IP laws were created to PREVENT inventors or artists from failing to publicly distribute their ideas and creations.  The idea is that the market will force their distribution and encourage the creation of others.

When IP rights are used to PREVENT ALL public use of IP, then they are being used for the EXACT opposite of their purpose and intent. 

[Power Gamer]

Here is a easy to understand explanation of the purpose of IP law.

http://www.alllaw.com/topics/intellectual_property

[Fable]

IP rights are a temporary license granted by the community to the creators of IP so that they can receive the benefits of selling access to their creations, ideas, and inventions. IP laws were created to PREVENT inventors or artists from failing to publicly distribute their ideas and creations.  The idea is that the market will force their distribution and encourage the creation of others.

When IP rights are used to PREVENT ALL public use of IP, then they are being used for the EXACT opposite of their purpose and intent.

I did not understand that. Thank you for informing me.

[Ohioknight]

Here is a easy to understand explanation of the purpose of IP law.

http://www.alllaw.com/topics/intellectual_property

Thank you, that was very useful. 

My only quibble is that it didn't specifically note the fundamental difference between "Property" and "Intellectual Property".  Unlike Property rights, IP rights are temporary.  The estate of Conan Doyle just lost their rights to Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson as characters and to Doyle's early stories.

[Power Gamer]

Thank you, that was very useful. 

My only quibble is that it didn't specifically note the fundamental difference between "Property" and "Intellectual Property".  Unlike Property rights, IP rights are temporary.  The estate of Conan Doyle just lost their rights to Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson as characters and to Doyle's early stories.

You are welcome.

For a better understanding of IP, uspto.gov is the source of all things related to the subject including the rights and limitations of intellectual properties.

Very dry reading, I know. I worked in the field for years. :P

[Ironwolf]

You know as time goes by and we see what a real work of genius CoH was in comparison to other MMO's out there - I can't help but think of Kintsugi - or mending a broken object with gold (http://www.lakesidepottery.com/Pages/kintsugi-repairing-ceramic-with-gold-and-lacquer-better-than-new.htm).

This takes a valuable pottery and makes it even more exquisite. This is what I feel we have the opportunity to do. In fact I would like to float that name out as a Hero for the new CoH 1.5 once development starts.

Kintsugi - she makes the broken new and beautiful.

[Fanta]

Crap!

[Waffles]

Someone's totally going to be stealing that from you, Wolfy. 'Tis why I don't mention my names >->

[rebel 1812]

Easy to say when you don't really have an IP worth fighting for. Im not trying to be a dick, but come on man, that had to taste a lie just writing it out. If I have an IP that's worth money then I have every right to protect it.

I don't I might misunderstanding you, I hope I am.

         Trying to be a dick?  IP rights is the dick.  These were originally suppose to protect regular people and their ideas.  Alot of the patents in the 1800s were people that had a better way of doing things at their current jobs; or inventions that would help in those industries.  Nowadays, big corporations call all the rights to ideas you come up with while working for them.  Talk about being a dick. IP is suppose to have an expiry date to force people to create new things.  Nowadays, Disney is still making money off of Mickey and cracking down on anyone that draws him.  Come up with a new idea Walt.  Oh wait he is dead along time and yet still there are rights to his work. 
        So on the whole these rights were suppose to help regular people, but now they just help big corporations.   I can't help but not care about IP.  Especially when so many people are having their way to make money destroyed without a backlash; such as globalization lowering the standard of living but excessive labor competitive externally (offshoring) and internally (too much immigration).  Not to mention how internships wrecked enter level work and essentially break minimum wage laws.  I think people should care more about those issues and protecting the standard of living for regular people before they get on a high horse about IP.

[Waffles]

What the hell am I reading?

[Ohioknight]

What the hell am I reading?

That might not have been the most coherent or articulate presentation of a position that I've ever read.

I believe he is voicing complaint about the state of IP law and its use in the current world economy.

I think that's what he meant by "IP Rights is the dick."

[Fable]

         Trying to be a dick?  IP rights is the dick.  These were originally suppose to protect regular people and their ideas.  Alot of the patents in the 1800s were people that had a better way of doing things at their current jobs; or inventions that would help in those industries.  Nowadays, big corporations call all the rights to ideas you come up with while working for them.  Talk about being a dick. IP is suppose to have an expiry date to force people to create new things.  Nowadays, Disney is still making money off of Mickey and cracking down on anyone that draws him.  Come up with a new idea Walt.  Oh wait he is dead along time and yet still there are rights to his work.

Got it. I opened my mouth when I had no idea what I was talking about and Onionknight corrected in a very respectable way. Point made, no need to call me out further when I'm calling myself out.
     
   

So on the whole these rights were suppose to help regular people, but now they just help big corporations.   I can't help but not care about IP.  Especially when so many people are having their way to make money destroyed without a backlash; such as globalization lowering the standard of living but excessive labor competitive externally (offshoring) and internally (too much immigration).  Not to mention how internships wrecked enter level work and essentially break minimum wage laws.  I think people should care more about those issues and protecting the standard of living for regular people before they get on a high horse about IP.

Whoa.. High horse, meet soap box...

[Abraxus]

Always fascinating, and educational following the flow of topics that arise in this thread.  It is kind of an emotional roller-coaster ride, as we go from the jubilation at the prospect of our beloved game returning, to frustration (and sometimes anger) over the possible reasons behind the fact that we are not already playing it.

After my recent foray into the Icon application, and getting to experience the game (albeit in a limited way) once more, it only steels my resolve to eagerly await the day it is announced that it WILL happen, and increases tenfold the anticipation for the day that it actually does return.  I am sure I am not alone in this, but now with the help of Icon, I remember exactly why I feel that way.

I will see all of you in-game on day 1, as the Super Groups form, and justice comes back to Paragon City!

[ivanhedgehog]

Got it. I opened my mouth when I had no idea what I was talking about and Onionknight corrected in a very respectable way. Point made, no need to call me out further when I'm calling myself out.
     
   Whoa.. High horse, meet soap box...

he does have a point.. apple patenting a rectangle with rounded corners? riiiight. like no one has ever used that in the last 2000 years. sherlock holmes has just now come out from copyright...it has been extended way too long. you know why there are so few documentaries on vietnam war? because the copyright holders of the pictures want huge payments every single time it is shown. so no one shows them.

[Remaugen]

Kintsugi - she makes the broken new and beautiful.

I could be mistaken, but that name looks familiar to me from Champion server.