ICON and the Mini-Map

[Ice Trix]

I can use the mini map when in a zone and see the map, but in the mission maps (e.g. caves) it's just blank.
Is that something I can fix somehow, or a limitation of ICON?

(I'm wanting to lift map layouts for RPG adventures)

[The Fifth Horseman]

The minimaps are stored as textures inside the PIGGs. Use a PIGG viewer to get them.

[Ice Trix]

Thanks.
Okay I googled and found pigg viewer pro ( http://code.google.com/p/piggtools/ ) which has TonyV's name on it, so assuming that's the right one?
I can see the bin files, but what reads them? Export/Export as/Export All doesn't do a thing.  I can extract a bin file but what should I do with it?

[Arachnion]

Those aren't what you want, Ice Trix.

The piggs are organized in an utterly messy way..

Give me a bit and I'll see if I can't dig out all the mission minimaps for you.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it would seem mission minimaps are chopped up into pieces, or are one big piece.. of a central area, block, etc..

Which I don't think you're looking for.

Unless you wanna piece them together.. here are some, right from the files:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53520447/Mission%20Minimaps%20Sample.rar

However, if you still want to know how to find the stuff yourself, I'll write up a small guide for it sometime.

[Ice Trix]

Thanks for the effort. Your right though, I'm not after the smaller bits and pieces like that. Oh well.

It would be nice if you get time to do a tutorial at some point as I'm sure there will be other bits I'd like to find.
Be good to rule out if I'm using the wrong program or what not too. I've found .bins and .geos, but unable to export them. I'm using 64bit windows 7, and slightly concerned that's the cause of export not functioning.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Thanks for the effort. Your right though, I'm not after the smaller bits and pieces like that. Oh well.

That's the only way they are stored, probably because the maps were assembled from those parts. The binary map format is not human-friendly either.

Be good to rule out if I'm using the wrong program or what not too. I've found .bins and .geos, but unable to export them.

.bin and .geo are not what you're looking for. First, there are no tools to read them. Second, .geos are model geometry data.

[Codewalker]

The binary map format is not human-friendly either..bin and .geo are not what you're looking for. First, there are no tools to read them. Second, .geos are model geometry data.

My bin decoder (command line, not exactly what I'd call friendly). Can read bin files straight out of piggs as well, doesn't need a pigg viewer.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn9x1k3181ox58r/bindump.zip

Geo viewer (collab with Guy Perfect):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5y8d0wsbuyhru1/geodraw.zip

However, that's correct. Neither of those formats is what the OP is looking for. Well, sort of. With bindump you could extract information from bin/minimap.bin about a specific map and how to assemble the smaller textures, but it would be a very painstaking process.

[MWRuger]

The mini-map was probably constructed on the fly by the server. If you were on a team, the map was revealed as anyone on the team went to a new area of the map. So it would take knowledge that the local client didn't have.

I suppose if there was a way to trigger the "reveal" power (that shows the whole minimap when you load a map, that might work. But I still think that's probably done server side.

[The Fifth Horseman]

The mini-map was probably constructed on the fly by the server. If you were on a team, the map was revealed as anyone on the team went to a new area of the map. So it would take knowledge that the local client didn't have.

Incorrect. The mini-map was constructed from parts stored on the local machine (which can be found in the PIGGs); this way the server only had to send information about the reveal state rather than the minimap itself.

[MWRuger]

That's what I said. The Server created the mini-map. Doesn't matter if the parts are local if it requires the server to create it.

[Arachnion]

That's what I said. The Server created the mini-map. Doesn't matter if the parts are local if it requires the server to create it.

Hmm...

From Codewalker "With bindump you could extract information from bin/minimap.bin about a specific map and how to assemble the smaller textures"

Hmm...

Maybe the client has the info to assemble minimaps itself... but the server is what reveals them when being used..?

[Codewalker]

The client has the info for minimaps. It's in minimap.bin -- both the pieces of the map with coordinates, as well as the markers that are used for AE mode. It's not trivial to construct by hand, you'd probably need some kind of tool to do it automatically if you want to retain your sanity.

The server just sends "fog of war" updates with what portions of it are revealed. It's even possible to disable the fog entirely clientside and always see the entire map.

[MWRuger]

Very cool, if possible.

[Codewalker]

Actually, come to think of it, I wonder if the reason the maps don't show up in Icon is due to the fog. I was a little surprised at the client not loading it automatically, but maybe it is -- but without server updates to the fog area it's blanking out the whole thing.

Try this on a mission map and see if it works:

/accesslevel 10
/nomapfog 1

[MWRuger]

OK. I'll do it when I get home.

[MWRuger]

No luck.

I tried loading a map and typing in the commands. No bueno.

SO I loaded another map and got some error messages because I was access level 10.

Still nothing. Tried another cave map. Nothing. exited and tried again.

Interestingly, I loaded Pocket D and the map fog was there! Also, as I moved it cleared as per normal. All fog cleared with /nomapfog 1.

/nomapfog 0: restored the fog!

My guess is that Pocket D is zone Map, even though it looks like a mission map. The Zone maps worked exactly as you described, but the mission maps, no.

Whenever I loaded a mission map I got errors saying:
File: maps/Missions/abandoned_tech/Abandoned_Tech_30/Abandoned_tech_SM_30_Layout_01.txt
Last Author/Status:Perforce.cpp failed to connect to Perforce.
No loading screen match found!

I'm wondering if these mini's fail to show up because they are constructed by the mission authoring system and since that is disabled/unavailable, no map.

[Eoraptor]

No luck.

I tried loading a map and typing in the commands. No bueno.

SO I loaded another map and got some error messages because I was access level 10.

Still nothing. Tried another cave map. Nothing. exited and tried again.

Interestingly, I loaded Pocket D and the map fog was there! Also, as I moved it cleared as per normal. All fog cleared with /nomapfog 1.

/nomapfog 0: restored the fog!

My guess is that Pocket D is zone Map, even though it looks like a mission map. The Zone maps worked exactly as you described, but the mission maps, no.

Whenever I loaded a mission map I got errors saying:
File: maps/Missions/abandoned_tech/Abandoned_Tech_30/Abandoned_tech_SM_30_Layout_01.txt
Last Author/Status:Perforce.cpp failed to connect to Perforce.
No loading screen match found!

I'm wondering if these mini's fail to show up because they are constructed by the mission authoring system and since that is disabled/unavailable, no map.

There's probably something to that. the game probably randomly selected one of a few dozen maps each time you entered a mission, with the server then assigning the fog/reveal state to it. That's why you can't load them into Icon, because they're not named maps which can be summoned the same way zones can.

at least that's my limited interpretation

[Blondeshell]

My guess is that Pocket D is zone Map, even though it looks like a mission map. The Zone maps worked exactly as you described, but the mission maps, no.

Pocket D is definitely a zone map.

List of Zone Maps

[MWRuger]

That makes sense Blondeshell. The Zone's don't actually change. They are the smae no matter what character logs in. But the mission maps vary, so even though the parts are present in the client it doesn't know how to construct them because there is no mission there to assign objectives or victory conditions. All of those have to present/scripted for a mission to work and thus, we don't get them (or the mini-map which would show objectives after a certain amount of the mission was completed) without the server. i'm happy to be corrected on this point however if someone can/will.

[Codewalker]

Mission maps are static, too. Each of the possible variants exists as a full map of its own, that's what the "_Layout_XX" at the end of the name of the map (usually) signifies. There's nothing really special about them, they're just different maps made up from similar looking components. Each layout has its own minimap that's associated with it in minimap.bin. No dynamic assembly of maps is going on.

When you get a mission assigned, the only thing the server sends is which map to load when you zone in. Presumably there's a serverside list of "office maps" that it can randomly choose from.

The one piece of the puzzle that may be missing is the fact that mission maps often have multiple "floors" that exist in various parts of the space. There are map switch markers that tell the game which part of the minimap is associated with that region, but perhaps those aren't being handled fully autonomously.

[Eoraptor]

yeah, there has to be some server-side operation that sets mission map parameters... for instance, what is an "office" map versus what is a cave map versus a warehouse map... how many floors or sub-zones to be assigned to the map, whether to spawn the clean or the derelict version of the map (full of grafiti and fires) and what mob types to spawn in the map, etc

[MWRuger]

I thought it might be even simpler than that. (I thought maybe it was map objectives that weren't there) I ended up with more questions but here's what I did (i'm including the map files I loaded so you can replicate the results for yourself):

It occurred to me that there were mission maps that were all single level and were unique to certain missions. For example, Faultine Dam interior (MAPS/MISSIONS/UNIQUE/FAULTLINE/DAMLIES/DAMLIES.txt) and the abandoned SG base
 (MAPS/MISSIONS/UNIQUE/ABANDONEDTECH/ABANDONEDTECH_15/ABANDONEDTECH_15_LAYOUT_01_04.txt)
where you pickup Doc Delilah are only used for very specific missions. They aren't randomly assigned. Also, they do not have multiple floors. But no mini maps appeared when I loaded them.

Then I loaded Bunker (MAPS/MISSIONS/UNIQUE/BUNKER/BUNKER_01.TXT) and the Mini-map appeared and worked as normal!

Further, it isn't just the fact that they are mission maps. Because outdoor mission maps load the mini-map and FOW works just like it should. The winter event (MAPS/MISSIONS/UNIQUE/WINTER_06/WINTER_EVENT06_CROATOA.txt) and a Mercy factory mission map (MAPS/MISSIONS/OUTDOOR_MISSIONS/V_OUTDOOR_MERCY/INST_FACTORY/INST_FACTORY.TXT) worked as well.

So it isn't clickable objectives or multiple floors that are the problem since Outdoor mission maps have clickies and the maps I loaded were single floor.

So what does it mean? First, I think that the reason some work and some don't is because of zoning. Even though they are mission maps, the outdoor maps are treated as separate zones. (Can't explain "bunker" unless it is also technically a zone like Pocket D)

I think the key is Door missions. Because when you click on the door, you don't leave the zone that the mission is located in. So when you are inside the mission, you were still connected to the zone you were in.

In Icon, you are not connected to any other zone because you don't have the mission parameters that tell the client what Zone the mission is in or where the doors should dump you if you leave by them.

Indeed, using Noclip, if you leave a mission map, even one that only appears in Faultline or the Hallows, all you get is inky blackness.

So I go back to my original theory that is the lack of mission data (server side) that is keeping the mini-map from appearing. Since there is no Server to keep track of where you are in the world and that is connected in some way to when/if the mini-map is displayed.

[Codewalker]

The client makes no distinction between zone and mission maps. They're both just a map that's being handled (or not in Icon's case) by a dedicated mapserver. When you're on a mission, you're not in the zone you came from anymore -- what happens is that the server just remembers your "last static zone" to send you back to after. But that distinction only exists on the server, not on the client.

[Codewalker]

Oh, I think I see what's going on. Try loading the bunker map, or the mercy factory instance. Press F4 to turn on see-everything, then turn around and look at the door. See that orange arrow with the letters "MAP"? That's a map switch beacon. They're most commonly used on multi-floor maps or maps with both outdoor and indoor parts to show the correct minimap depending on what part of it you're in.

Now load the abandoned tech lab map. Notice what is distinctly missing from anywhere in the level.

The Croatoa one has map switch beacons as well, but you're less likely to spawn next to one. The beacon itself has a huge orange arrow and letters in the sky as well as the part on the ground, making it easier to see on outdoor maps.

So for some reason a few single-level maps have those beacons as well, but it's enough to kick the minimap into working. Icon uses the same load process as demo playback, so there's probably some extra initialization that gets skipped over that would handle activating the minimap for simple maps without a beacon on them.

As a workaround, you can also use the /show_all_minimaps 1 command (accesslevel required), which adds a dropdown to the minimap allowing you to select any one you want. It looks like you do get the AE-style markers when you do that, though, and it doesn't seem to track your position even if you pick the one for the map you're currently on.

[MWRuger]

Awesome! I love it when something gets figured out! Thanks for taking the time to answer this and decode my ramblings!

[Ice Trix]

Not sure what happened to my notifies on this thread, but lots to read coming back.

The show all minimaps will work really well for my needs, so that's great for me

Loved seeing the process along the way too.

Thanks.

[Arachnion]

If people here don't mind, I'm going to add this info about using the mini maps to the Titan Icon wiki page.

With all due credit, of course.

[MWRuger]

Just asking out of curiosity, is it possible to add mapswitch beacons to a map?

They don't have to actually work since there 's no server. I was thinking if it was a simple line that could be added to the  map text file to just add the beacon somewhere in the level could do the trick.

I'm willing to try, but I'm not sure what to look for.