I might delete my Mind..

[Xev]

(Not written in Scroogevoice)

OK so, now that I've been playing for awhile I have to ask... Why did they not give The Mind, a pure support toon/heal-bot, a Res...?

Who in the world would make any CO support toon and not give them a res? Especially one so one dimensional as The Mind.

The Mind has his auras and his bubbles and a heal. So you are pretty much a healing bubble boy/girl which is all good and fun until someone faceplants and asks for a simple res.

The Mind Creator: "Let's give'em a hold instead!" Because those are so useful.

Dangit if I didn't name him Xev and level him to 40 and gear him, too.

Swap out *any* (of the passingly interesting but virtually useless) power(s) except the bubbles or heal or Compassion for a res and you have yourself a Fine support AT that is not only good for newbs to learn the game with but will have a lot longer shelf life and be welcomed in a wider variety of teams.

I realize the goal of those in charge isn't to get us to play AT's. I've always felt like lack of res was an intentional Mind gimp to give the Radiant more appeal too.

Fair warning, I guess. If you roll up a Mind, be prepared for disappointment down the road. They get a little boring. I just spam attacks/summon pet when I don't need to bubble/heal to make it look like I'm doing something but I'm not.. You won't want to team in any situation where a res is beneficial either (edit: due to it's embarrassing to play pure defense support and not have the most basic defense support toon tool that any FF would pick.)

[General Idiot]

Welcome to archetypes. Pretty much all of them have crippling weaknesses because Cryptic wanted to encourage teaming up.

As opposed to the CoH principle of simply making teaming up a fun and entertaining thing that you'll want to do anyway.

[Xev]

Yeah I dunno why I felt compelled to warn people off of The Mind since days now with my opinion.

Maybe it's because (especially pure defense) support toons aren't needed a whole lot already so they already have one strike against them. When they are needed, often their res is too and the Mind doesn't have one. Maybe this info helps a newb deciding on what AT to try. I didn't know this when I made my Mind.

Another fair warning, newbs, the powers that aren't useful (all but 4) aren't even very entertaining.  You basically have 4 useful 'endgame' powers as The Mind. 2 of those are toggles. And no one will care about any of them if you can't res and people are counting on you for one which they probly will be if you are playing endgame type content and hogging up a support role slot.

*shrug*

I have other AT's with serious flaws too but none of them are boring or embarrassing me. So there you are, oh considerers of The Mind.

I always thought the motivating force behind gimping AT's was to get me to play FFs. AT's today can't be what they were when they were originally made, either. For example, if you make an Unleashed today, he won't be like the one I made when he was new. Seems like AT's could use some up to date luv.

Considering the fewer power choices and that they are free/cheapest to play, if you have a playstyle that fits your AT choice and can appreciate the tools the build has and can put them all together, some ATs are actually pretty decent to darn good.

I dunno what server you were on but Liberty was mostly solo artists unless they teamed up for stuff that they couldn't get solo - like from doing accolades like Task Commander or farming Incarnate trials. I liked making/joining PL teams sometimes too. Other than that, usually, what was the point? Other than teaming just for the fun of it. You can do that in CO too and there are people that regularly do. Not a whole lot. Like was on Liberty. I still vividly remember similar conversations in LB channel on this very subject, about how everyone usually just wanted to solo outside of raids and other have-to-team stuff.

CO could use more things to team up For. And not just more mishes. CoH had Incarnate, Task Forces, Accolades, Respecs, Raids, farming Purples... CO has Alerts, Nemcons, and Dark Speed runs.

[General Idiot]

CoH's system actively encouraged and rewarded you for teaming, though. Missions scaling to team size meant more people = more xp, plus the way missions were set up meant you didn't have to keep track of missions to ensure everyone had it. Just set one person's mission and go.

CO on the other hand is like most MMO's and outright punishes you for teaming where you're not supposed to. Mob xp is split but there aren't any more mobs spawned so less xp from that. Half the game doesn't bother to count glowies for all team members so you need twice or three times as many glowies but the game doesn't bother to spawn more of those either, and the ones that are there have long respawn times usually. And to top it off they have this ass-backwards mission sharing system that gives out nerfed versions of missions that give no rewards and not much xp if you're not on the exact same step of whatever chain led to them as the one sharing it. And then they make a whole pile of missions not sharable anyway.


It's not so much an argument of 'I want to team' vs 'I want to solo'. Its that teaming in CoH was actually beneficial even on perfectly soloable missions. Teaming in CO will nine times out of ten just cause annoyance.

[Xev]

Shorter reply version:

You're right but that stuff isn't what I play CO for and CO's strong points make it easier for me to overlook your points and I have optimism for CO's future..  : )

My latest build plays in teams 100% of the time when not opening presents. We usually skip glowies and don't care about xp and I generally pass on team loot.

[General Idiot]

To each their own, I suppose. I'm just saying, teaming more often would appeal to more people if it was actually beneficial from a mechanical perspective.

[Xev]

Teaming would appeal more to me if there was a wider variety of things to team for.

The game mechanics outshine the teaming mechanics from my perspective, so, I'm not really bothered about glowies or loot or xp sharing so much.

Teaming mechanics don't affect my decision of whether to team or not, at all. Never have.

Now, we just have to determine if I'm the minority or not and voila, discussion solved.

Warning number 2, Newbs: Don't come to CO for it's superior teaming mechanics. And don't forget to be wary of making a Mind.

[Kaos Arcanna]

The teaming thing is a double edged sword in my opinion.

On the one hand, I am pleased that so little content in the game requires me to grab other people to play to finish it. I can even run the Adventure Packs-- arguably the best writing in the game IMO-- without having to get a team together.

On the negative side, there is precious little reason for you to team in CO. You get nothing extra from it, really-- and for people who DO like to team-- I enjoyed a good team in COH but I was really happy once the 40-50 arcs removed the "AV At the end of every arc" requirement-- it's pretty hard to get a team if you don't happen to have a group of friends who play.

[Xev]

You know what's kinda funny is when I logged on earlier there was a really unusually high amount of team auction spam.. One after the other after the other as if in response to this thread. Too weird.

On the negative side, there is precious little reason for you to team in CO. You get nothing extra from it, really

 

CO could use more things to team up For. And not just more mishes. CoH had Incarnate, Task Forces, Accolades, Respecs, Raids, farming Purples... CO has Alerts, Nemcons, and Dark Speed runs.

Not much extra from teaming. True true.

I'm planning to spend my playtime in teams again tonite. Currently I'm in full team mode due to that's what my guy is best at. What do I get out of it? Well, I get to play with other people. I get to check out people's builds and costumes and playstyles and test my build in different situations. I get Q, I get Globals. I get some mediocre loot. Maybe some Perks.

Main thing is, I get to soup up my hot rod then send it out on the road.

I'd like more too, sure. Like all that stuff we had to chase together in COH. I don't care about the xp sharing or how the glowies work or how the loot is shared or any of that stuff tho.

[JaguarX]

The teaming thing is a double edged sword in my opinion.

On the one hand, I am pleased that so little content in the game requires me to grab other people to play to finish it. I can even run the Adventure Packs-- arguably the best writing in the game IMO-- without having to get a team together.

On the negative side, there is precious little reason for you to team in CO. You get nothing extra from it, really-- and for people who DO like to team-- I enjoyed a good team in COH but I was really happy once the 40-50 arcs removed the "AV At the end of every arc" requirement-- it's pretty hard to get a team if you don't happen to have a group of friends who play.

Indeed. It has it's ups and downs tha tis for sure. Although in COX, there have been many times, since some stff required a team, it was hard to complete the stuff unless one knew someone that knew someone on that particular server, played at the right time, and just happen upon a group of people that was interested in that same task as you were at that precise moment. Which lining up all of that sometimes ended up being a PITA because in COX, no team sometimes simply meant, a person cant do the task they want to do at the moment even if they might be physically able to.

In CO, it's mostly if one cant find people interested in that same task, they can go ahead and do it anyways. That is kind of why I like CO "solo" focus more than COX system. Because my play time is not dictated on the interest of other people. Hey, I want to do that comic arc, anyone care to join? No, then I'll do it by myself. In COX it's hey anyone want to do this TF? No? I need 5 people? *hours later* Well geez. Plus it's about time that people that cant schedule and may not have popular farm interest or cant play at peak time, or a mass stable of friends that are always one at the same time are kept in mind for once as considered actual paying customers and gamers. And apparently there is more than thought because in CO once teaming without perks or gated material, now it can be hard for people who like to team because there is no mass interest in it because it's not artificially created to be "needed". People still can team if they chose, yes, it still can be fun but in CO, that is wrong place to team simply for the usually perks and enticements that other games use to make it look like "OH look, everyone enjoys and love teaming".

Usually people will do what they find fun either team or solo but when one must artificially nudge people into teaming and then say "look people *love* to team" usually that means not as many people actually enjoy teaming as thought. The true measure of how much people like to team is to take away the teaming perks, put it even aka nothing extra for teaming and see what happens. CO is that example.


Now this leaves people that love to team a bit in a lurch, although in a way I say, about time. It been too long that solo players or those that cant be one at the exact peak times or isn't Mr popularity in the game, been in a lurch with being locked out of content that is gated behind team requirements. But this lurch is that now that people are not forced to team at all or enticed to team for perks, many simply wont which leaves the people that truly enjoy teaming for the sake of teaming which in a way can make finding those types far and in between. I wish there was a mechanism where people can see teams, how many is in that team, open invite meaning say if there is a team lurking around set to open invite and there is an opening, one can click on it, and be on the team, or a que system for a team. Even in COX every so often there were a wave of LFG and looking at it between a time span of 10-30 min, you could see that they could gather up and form a team. Suppose there was some sort of pool like a list where someone could see people LFT, and even can be broken down into particular TF equivalents, and click on the name and the team starts to be formed. It will ease the LFM and LFT team stuff and make it easier for those that do want to team find each other. I think CO have a rudimentary form of a system like that but it could be better IMO.

[Xev]

Yeah I think no one here wants to be in a situation where only leets can get leet gear.

I wasn't leet or popular or with a huge friends list and I didn't play 24/7 in CoH but my top 2 guys still had every team/raid thing I could want for them and I just had time to purple the second one out and was working on a third and had only been back to the game for a lil over a year.

When I wasn't getting in PU raids/tf's/whatever other team thing, I was making PL teams or farming salvage. Search Terms: fire bikini (just f/x ofc! : )

I think me and Kaos are saying we don't want to be forced to team, we just want to have more reasons for it. CoH makes a good example of what we're talking about due to we all played it and know how well they handled this sort of thing.

Useful team up tools are always great. CoH did it awesome and was expanding on the idea. They had DFB for newbs, Incarnate for newbs with more toys *snicker*, Task Forces for people doing accolades or who just wanted to do Task Forces/team, Respec Trials got put in the queue system, and it seemed like they were just getting warmed up.

In comparison, CO has Alerts. For variety they make new ones sometimes, have event (like the Winter one now) Alerts, and they rotate the custom one. Gravi gets an honorable mention as being a mini-raid just due to she's been flogged so many times but still manages to win.

I like my toons, I like playing the game. No major complaints here. But yeah, sure, better is always better. We can always dream. I was/am just going with it  : )

[LydiaFrost]

I have a Mind as main, when I play CO.
My usual tactics are just running around with acrobatics, spamming the multiple balls, that heal you.
Now and then i use a heal on myself.
This works good enough I could do the missions up to now. I think Im lvl 34. I dont play often.
So what are the bubbles you talk about? I dont think i have protective skills, besides the one heal Power.

[Xev]

The multiple balls that heal you... lol I had to think about that I thought you were talking about bubbles but then you asked about bubbles.

The wiki's down atm but I think you have to wait all the way until 40 to get your bubbles/pink shields.

Bubbles are damage shields. In fantasy games they can be runes. They pad whatever toon you surround them with with extra hps. If I hit you with a 4k pink bubble, you get 4k extra hps that a mob has to cut through before they get to your actual hps, I think there are some mobs better than other at tearing through bubbles but that's generally how it works, and, the bubbles of course have a duration.

Of the two biggest damage shields in the game, the most important difference is that the one from The Mind is a lot faster casting and has a lot shorter duration. If I had to choose between it and the Blue bubble I'd probly take the Pink in support situations just due to the fast cast.

I dunno.. Even though I thought about it a few days before posting I was probably still too harsh on this AT.. You can get a lot of mileage out of it. Especially as a newb or in a team of newbs. Leaving a res out of the build is just cruel, tho. I can't imagine anyone intentionally putting together a pure defense support build and leaving out a res. In the instances where a pure defensive support toon is most handy (Gravi, f/x) you'll want a res. If I'm in an endgame type team I don't want to be taking up a slot as an all-support toon without a res, either. I was looking forward to playing him in Warlord tonite but I just now realized that you get locked out if you faceplant so I might not even take him there.

[Xev]

Here's a good time to have a Mind in a team. When you're farming Q with your squishiest AT's.

I guess what I was saying is that when I'm in a team of FF's who have a good grasp on the game I feel one dimensional due to I have 4 useful powers and 2 of them... are toggles. The other two are the heal (hope you took the maintain version) and the bubbles. And I dunno about you but if there's only 1 healer type with that cross next to his avatar cameo in the team and I faceplant in a place that it sucks to faceplant, I look to that toon to res me because I know if it was me, I would know the value of a res in that particular situation and if I was playing a support toon, I'd have one.

When I was a fresh newb vs. the seasoned newb I am now, I didn't realize that my control powers were basically useless compared to what else I could be doing otherwise and I even outgrew the balls of healing and just spam them now to do some trickle aoe dps, And, I wasn't dying so I didn't see any problems. This is why I say this AT is good for newbs. The Mind is good at keeping AT's and lower level/newb FF's on their feet is why I say they'd be good for newb teams.

Newb isn't a bad word it's just that you won't be one forever if you plan to stick with the game. I'm ok with doing about anything without a res, too. But healer etiquette screams I get one - like getting Concentration or similar if you're a ranged dps or a taunt & some defense if you're wanting to tank. When I made Kos I read the descriptions wrong on the resses and thought they had 2 minute cooldowns so in his original build he had all 3..! hehe

I'm not about putting people in a box with labels like healer and resser and am not about holy trinities and all that but some things, like choosing to put a res on your all-support toon or a taunt on your tank or a dps buff on your dps toon... just seem like a decent idea. Especially when we have so many powers to choose from (AT's get 12), and all but 4 on The Mind are mostly superficial for his purposes and not needed at all once you're 40 and are all decked out with your ranked/gear buffed powers and put that into play in a team. If you want to solo.. I've only played maybe a half dozen AT's but The Mind, by far, is the slowest and least entertaining solo AT I've played. I only did it to try it.. It works, but, it's so much less entertaining than any other toon I've tried so far, I'd not suggest it over any other choice there is except maybe The Radiant.

I couldn't believe it when they nerfed the crits on those healing balls... Ego Sprites. I was like *whew* my dps was getting too OP! (Sorry, had to finally mention that nerf, saw the shot, sucked up some sarcasm and took it  : )