The Time of the Doctor: discussion and spoilers

[Mental Maden]

Might as well get the thread ready early (less than 36 hours!).  Make sure you have plenty of snacks and tissues for this one. 

Early speculation?  Thoughts?  Theories?

Me: I'll really miss Matt Smith, he was my first "real time" doctor as I got into the show via the Christmas time marathon right before 10 left.  And I think you always have a soft spot for your first Doctor.  I am looking forward to Capaldi though as I think an older Doctor will be a nice change of pace.

[JWBullfrog]

I started with the Fifth doctor so I've been through this a few times before.

Five to Six- Sad because this was my first Doctor. You do have a soft spot for your first.

Six to Seven- Too soon. Colin Baker should have had another year or two to let his stories grow more.

Seven to Eight - Too Sudden. But, considering that it almost never happened at all...

Eight to Eight and a half - It took, what, twenty years to get us here? But it was wonderful.

Eight point five to Nine - Far too Sudden! Could you have given us another five seconds?

Nine to Ten - Far too Soon. Christopher Eccleston should have had another two or three years.

Ten to Eleven - Heartbreaking. thanks DT for making the Doctor an International star again.

Eleven to Twelve - Goodbye Matt. You've done spectacular work and set the stage for the next chapter.

I am really looking forward to this. It's always great to see how the new actor will take the character. One of the true joys of Doctor Who is that every actor has had a different take on the character but you are willing to believe that every single one of the is the one and only Doctor.

Welcome Peter Capaldi. You have a massive legacy to live up to.

[Tenzhi]

I'm looking forward to Peter Capaldi and an older Doctor.  It's probably too much to hope that we'll get stories that proceed at a more measured pace along with him, though.  2-3 episodes per story would be more in line with the old pacing of 4-6 half hour episodes per story, which I much prefer to the breakneck hour that too often rushes to a forced/contrived ending.

[Tenzhi]

That episode was pretty lame.  There were a couple of funny moments, a narrative that began to grate, and then the Doctor beat the Daleks with a Kamehameha...  refer to my previous post about forced/contrived endings.  Peter Capaldi's introduction as a sort of mad/drunk Scotsman was actually the best part of the episode for me.

[Heroette]

I thought it was an ok episode.  I like the comment about the "Kamehameha" and thought that was something new but I guess its not when I think about it.  Rose was able to kill with the time vortex in her.   But the transformation was kinda disappointing.  Not long enough.  And then they cut the show (the ending) short it seem to me.  I am looking forward to an older actor (1 year younger than me - but I am not old - lol) playing the Doctor.

[FatherXmas]

"Raggedy Man, Good Night."  The dropping of the tie.  If that didn't destroy you then you're inhuman.

As for the episode itself, it was alright.  Usual fair of the Doctor standing in the way of some insurmountable force.  A bit of handwavium of some of those dangling plot points from previous seasons but they are mostly sown up.  The whole "naked" running joke probably wasn't needed as well as Clara's family (to ground it on our Christmas).

I always looked at Matt Smith as "The Cat in the Hat" Doctor with how he was introduced to Amelia.  That underlying craziness was always there in his episodes.  He always has a plan even when he tells you he doesn't.  That's why it made sense that he became the town's toy maker as well as it's defender.

[Aggelakis]

Matt Smith is "my" Doctor. I cried like a baby. I am looking forward to Capaldi though. An older Doctor will be a nice change of pace! I *loved* John Hurt's Doctor's commentary about DT & MS when he came through the time portal in the 50th.

[Magus Prime]

As Moffat episodes go, this was another throwaway show.  M.S./#11 didn't quite get the sendoff D.T./#10 got.  Clara, wonderful as always.  Matt Smith gave a stirring performance as an aged Doctor.  Capaldi's entrance was almost a carbon copy of Smith's.

[JWBullfrog]

Now I have to disagree slightly with Magnus. The episode wasn't the greatest, I'll fully concede that point, but it was far from a throwaway. 11's departure was a reflection of his arrival. All of the iconic imagery from 11's time was slowly stripped away. fish fingers and Custard (still, ew) Amy/Amelia, the bow tie (I was good up to that point. that one hurt) and finally, 11 exits the same way he entered, crashing.

And, how the heck do you top DT's exit anyway. Not sure that can (or should) be done.

I would have liked that story line to have been a bit longer. Say about three episodes of getting stranded and setting himself up as protector (1), Clara finding her way back to him and gathering a few allies (2) one final big fight where the day is won but the Doctor is lost (3)

The new regeneration cycle was an existing Deus Ex Machina from long, long ago. I'm ok with it because it's a simple solution. The Master has used it (or tried to) at least once so it's only fair the Doctor gets to. I could have lived without it though. I would have been happy with a 12 regenerations being 'more of a guideline' explanation, or a ''well since your the last of the time lords and all that, you get a few extra lives until the rest of us get back on our feet." And that still keeps the Valeyard in play (anyone remember him?)

And while were on the topic of the time lords, aren't they supposed to be frozen in time? OK, true, if anyone can work around that it's the time lords but people who are frozen in time shouldn't be able to do anything. So, how are they asking questions and granting 13 more powerups?

One more thing to explain I suppose.


Still and all, not a bad send off. Thanks Matt, you did the fans proud.

[Tenzhi]

"Raggedy Man, Good Night."  The dropping of the tie.  If that didn't destroy you then you're inhuman.

I often wish I wasn't human, but in this case it's more a matter of me having little emotional attachment to Matt Smith's Doctor in the first place combined with already having said goodbye two or three times only to have it not be goodbye.  The boy who cries (bad) wolf too many times eventually gets eaten by one and no one cares.  Plus I was still in WTF mode because the Doctor just defeated the Daleks with a Kamehameha.  I still am.  That was probably the single worst moment in a Doctor Who episode.

[Mandu]

That was probably the single worst moment in a Doctor Who episode.

Really?  You actually consider that anywhere near the "clap if you believe in fairies" rescue of Doctor Dobby the Elf?

I considered it acceptable for 3 reasons

1.) The time Lords were helping him to live.  That's what Clara asked for and that's what they did.  Giving an extra boost to his regeneration energies which have already been destructive at times in the past would not be out of line.

2.)  He was given a complete new set of regenerations.  So who knows what side effects that may have.

3.)  This is the oldest the Doctor has ever been.  In fact it's quite possible this lifetime was the longest any timelord had ever experienced.  Once again we are in uncharted territory.

[Tenzhi]

Really?  You actually consider that anywhere near the "clap if you believe in fairies" rescue of Doctor Dobby the Elf?

Worse than that, worse than Doctor 8 being half-human, worse than 7 beating a Dalek with what could be called an enchanted baseball bat, worse than undead lightning Master (and that Master was pretty bad even without that nonsense), worse than a candy golem...  if there's a moment as bad or worse than the Doctor's power going over 9000, it ain't springing to mind.

[Timelord Tom]

Only problem I have with the story is the "Kamehameha" destruction of the Daleks, as Tenzhi put it. If the Time Lords could give this power to the Doctor, why did the Time War drag on so long in such a stalemate?

Also agree that I still prefer the pacing from original series. I can understand having hour long episodes, but having a story wrap up in that hour is very rushed. I miss the cliffhangers!

For the record, #4 - Tom Baker was my first Doctor... but I've grown to love Jon Pertwee's 3rd for the way he played the part, while the stories were strongest during the Tom Baker era among all the originals.

[Pengy]

"You! Cannot! Defeat! Us! But! We! Can! Exterminate! You!"
"Sure you can."
"You! Lie! That! Was! Not! A! Shoryuuken! That! Was! A! Hadoken!"

Something like that?

[Zombie Man]

And while were on the topic of the time lords, aren't they supposed to be frozen in time? OK, true, if anyone can work around that it's the time lords but people who are frozen in time shouldn't be able to do anything. So, how are they asking questions and granting 13 more powerups?

One more thing to explain I suppose.

They're in a pocket universe pushed outside of our space-time. Creating a "moment in time" doesn't freeze them. The creatures in the portraits and the Doctors themselves weren't frozen since they were able to move to gain their escape from the portrait. Creating the "moment in time" makes it seem from our point of view they are frozen or gone from space-time.

[JWBullfrog]

You make a good point Zombie but I thought I recalled the paintings being described as a moment frozen in time, then held in a parallel pocket dimension. If this is the case, then the Zygons should not have been able to break out of the paintings since 'inside' the picture is a frozen moment. Your explanation allows for them to act but, in that case, the painting should change ever time.

Unless, of course, it is changing over time but doing so so slowly that it seems unchanging to the outside observer. This would allow the time lords to act...

Ugh, even Timey-Wimey isn't quite enough to make my head stop hurting over that one.

[Battlechimp]

I did enjoy the episode, but I do agree with others when I say it wasn't exactly a great episode. Took me a bit and a couple rewatches before I could really put my finger on what disappointed me about the episode and made it so lack luster. And it wasn't even the kahmehameha moment.

It was that it wasn't a show about the Doctor on an adventure. It was a show about the Doctor starting an adventure that turned into a recap of all the awesome things that he did but they couldn't be bothered to show you. It just seemed like the writers completely threw out the concept of "show, don't tell".  Except for the wooden Cyber man, you just have to except that the doctor was being awesome, you don't see him being awesome.  Which really that's kind of the point of a visual medium, let alone good story telling. Without showing any of the threats and just saying "bad things came" there is no weight to the story. There is no sense of danger, there is no tension which leads to no emotional connection and no investment in the narrative for the viewer.

It would have much better if you had the various enemies all making a power grab, but the Doctor plays them against each other with the church and the Silence/Confessors backing him up.  Then in the midst of that when dealing the final blow the doctor gets killed saving Clara or even that kid Bernard or whatever his name was. There is more immediacy to the story, a better sense of the heroic nature of the Doctor.

 Also it wasn't a story about the Doctor fighting against all odds and succeeding, but at the loss of his own life. It was pretty straight forward, this is how the Doctor dies. The entire episode was pointing with bright mile high neon lights that said "hey everyone, the Doctor dies!!".

Compare this to say the death of the Ninth Doctor. That was a pair of episodes about the Doctor fighting off the daleks. People were dying to give him the time to enact his solution. At the same time you had Rose struggling to return to his side. Watching the episode you get the tension of how will he get out of this with the dramatic he doesn,t quite make it. The death of the Third and Fourth Doctors also comes to mind. Those episodes weren't about how the Doctor dies, but how he was foiling an evil plot but ultimately had to sacrifice himself  to do so

 A nice short explination about the Silence, although I do get why some people didn't like that it. A very good farewell to Matt Smith at the end, it had some very good bits at the beginning and the end, but unfortunately the middle really suffered. But I am very much looking forward to the new Doctor.

[FatherXmas]

Well they blew all their budget on the SFX and CGI.  All that foam rubble and pyrotechnics costs money.  Biggest problem with doing a TV serial, budget.  That's why all the talking and not the showing.  Compare it to all the other recent Xmas specials.  It seemed a tad short in length, just like the last few, excluding TNotD.  I have a feeling they blew a bit of the budget on that special, more than they planned and needed to balance the books sadly with this special.

[Tenzhi]

Pfft.  CGI.  In my day they made alien maggots out of garbage bags and wire and we liked it!

[Timelord Tom]

Pfft.  CGI.  In my day they made alien maggots out of garbage bags and wire and we liked it!

Will always recall the first appearance of a Rutan, the Sontaran's great enemies, in Horror Of Fang Rock. Nothing like creating an alien from a bit of plastic wrap, bit of green die, and a light source.



Part of the reason I find the original series so endearing is the low budget special effects.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Finally saw it this weekend.

It would have worked better if Whatsername from the Church of the Silence had been River Song.

[FatherXmas]

From what I heard she was tied up in the States filming another episode of Arrow so they recast/rewrote the part.   

[Mental Maden]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Peter-Capaldi-Doctor-Who-Costume-Revealed

The Doctor's new look revealed!

[EDIT: Fixed broken link ~Agge]

[Kaos Arcanna]

The outfit seems a little bland to me.

[JWBullfrog]

well, yes, but whenever the doctor's outfit isn't a bit bland (we're looking at you six...) the fanbase gets a bit.... annoyed.

[Aggelakis]

I loved Six's patchwork coat.

[FatherXmas]

Discussions on IO9 compares it to a toned down Three look. 



Or a magician.



Or simply the next Austin Powers.  Yeah Baby!

[Tenzhi]

The comparison to Doctor Three seems a bit apt, especially since what we've seen from him so far is an inability to pilot the TARDIS.  When does the new season start, anyway?

[JWBullfrog]

I loved Six's patchwork coat.

If I thought I could get a well made (and fitted) copy of it without spending a small fortune to do so...

Actually, four's scarf, six's coat, seven's umbrella... yeah, I could do that.

[Aggelakis]

When does the new season start, anyway?

August 

[Mental Maden]

August 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Korbian]

This seems like as good a place as any to stick this:



 City of Heroes and Doctor Who.  Better than chocolate and peanut butter. 

[Pengy]

Unwanted drive-by Speed Boost.

[Mental Maden]

Worlds are colliding!  Clara dating Robb Stark.  They shall have perfect (and beautiful) geek babies.