The Original shutdown scare from 2004/5

[doc7924]

Reading one post here got me remembering how all of us felt back in early 2005 when we heard that Marvel was going to get the game shut down.

I have a .pdf copy of the original complaint filed by Marvel and it is dated November 10, 2004. So the game was only out 6 months or so.

At time of course there was a valid point as Woolfereens and Bulks and whatever were rampant. But you could also make original heroes as well, something Marvel sort of glossed over in the complaint.

But you could just as easily make a Superiorman or Bat-Guy and we all wondered why DC never sued (as far as I know).

And I was surprised DC didn't get involved as Marvel even claimed they invented Super Heroes!

But the thing we heard at the time was Marvel was going to release an MMO and basically wanted no competition.
Just as we now want to ban all things NCSOFT a lot of chatter in the forums and in the game was people would ban from buying any marvel products if Marvel indeed had the game shut off.

Although the game was only 8 or 9 months old at the time we already loved it and couldn't bear if it was shut down because of Marvel.

Of course we were overjoyed when like 99% of the case was dismissed when the judge found out that almost all of the screenshots presented as evidence of trademark infringement were made by MARVEL EMPLOYEES that signed up for the game just to make those clones.

Though if the game was shutdown at that stage it wouldn't be as upsetting as it was to be shut down after spending 8 years and a lot of money.

[MaidMercury]

I came on the scene in 2007....so I missed that.

I did get wind of it by seeing the generic police at work in CoH.  :roll:

[Ironwolf]

Copyright requirements mean if you think someone is possibly infringing - YOU HAVE TO SUE THEM.

Then it goes to court and the decision is made or a settlement is made. Marvel wasn't being evil they were following the law. If they didn't try to stop infringment - they would lose their copyrights.

No malice and no ulterior motive - just the law.

[JaguarX]

Copyright requirements mean if you think someone is possibly infringing - YOU HAVE TO SUE THEM.

Then it goes to court and the decision is made or a settlement is made. Marvel wasn't being evil they were following the law. If they didn't try to stop infringment - they would lose their copyrights.

No malice and no ulterior motive - just the law.

actually that's trademarks.

You don't lose copyrights.

But you are spot on with Marvel because sometimes trademarks and copyrights go hand in hand and if they didn't pursue, they probably would have lost some trademark rights.


But it's good thing that copyrights are not lost if not pursued. Fanfic is many times copyright infringement but lot of authors don't mind it or take it as helping get their materials out there. But if they had to sue or lose their work, it would be a sad day in fanfic world as 99% of it is by definition of the law copyright infringement.

[doc7924]

Copyright requirements mean if you think someone is possibly infringing - YOU HAVE TO SUE THEM.

Then it goes to court and the decision is made or a settlement is made. Marvel wasn't being evil they were following the law. If they didn't try to stop infringment - they would lose their copyrights.

No malice and no ulterior motive - just the law.

Then why didn't DC sue as well? Whatever Marvel's motives were - it just made them look like the bad guys since DC never said a peep about the game.

But the fact that Marvel was planning on releasing an MMO back then was a big part of it. Though it took them about 8 years.

And to be fair - Wolverine is not the only super hero with claws or even published by Marvel, so in theory every comic company should have come down on COH - but they didn't - only Marvel.

Not saying Marvel was totally wrong and I can understand why they did what they did but some of those claims they made in the suit were just ridiculous.

[dwturducken]

Copyright requirements mean if you think someone is possibly infringing - YOU HAVE TO SUE THEM.

Then it goes to court and the decision is made or a settlement is made. Marvel wasn't being evil they were following the law. If they didn't try to stop infringment - they would lose their copyrights.

No malice and no ulterior motive - just the law.

The malice was when the infringements being cited were from Marvel employees who had gone in with the express purpose of trying to make copyrighted characters. Is it legal? yes. Is it dickish? Uh, yeah.

[Thunder Glove]

Yeah, basically, if I'm remembering the original legal documents correctly, Marvel asserted that there were "hundreds" of player-created characters in-game that were infringing Marvel copyrights.

However, when challenged to show examples of such, the only ones they could produce were characters that Marvel employees had created.  And they created them after the legal forms had all been filled out.  They couldn't produce a single example of an actual player with an infringing character.

(Which is a bit of a surprise, since Hulks were all over the place)

[JaguarX]

Yeah, basically, if I'm remembering the original legal documents correctly, Marvel asserted that there were "hundreds" of player-created characters in-game that were infringing Marvel copyrights.

However, when challenged to show examples of such, the only ones they could produce were characters that Marvel employees had created.  And they created them after the legal forms had all been filled out.  They couldn't produce a single example of an actual player with an infringing character.

(Which is a bit of a surprise, since Hulks were all over the place)

Well they probably didn't have access to the account information. So they could take a pic, but then it would have been easily thrown out as faux or posed. But they probably was in a rushing. If they took their time and just hung around on any server for an hour or two in Atlas park,. they would have had at least 3-5 copyright infringement toons per hour per person they send out to watch. With a crew of ten and about 5-6 hours, spread across the servers, they would have had about 100 sightings easy.

Yeah I'm sure there were hundreds of players that actually did copyright infringement. But I think the way they went about proving it, sinked their case. Hulks were everywhere and really though the moderation team up that point really wasn't doing anything much about them. Thus if Marvel didn't shoot themselves in the foot, NCSOFT and COX was a sitting duck to prove that it was going on and that the moderation rule enforcement didn't enforce the rule even though they had it written. After the case, for a while they went on a copyright infringement toon purge. Then it slowed down again, then around COV was released they went on another purge.

[doc7924]

Yeah, basically, if I'm remembering the original legal documents correctly, Marvel asserted that there were "hundreds" of player-created characters in-game that were infringing Marvel copyrights.

However, when challenged to show examples of such, the only ones they could produce were characters that Marvel employees had created.  And they created them after the legal forms had all been filled out.  They couldn't produce a single example of an actual player with an infringing character.

(Which is a bit of a surprise, since Hulks were all over the place)

At the same point I saw many many Supermen, all kinds of Batman rip offs. Hell I even teamed with a toon named Bruce Wayne that was a MA/SR scrapper. or a guy in my own SG that named a toon Wally West - had a Flash type costume - picked Superspeed as a scrapper and then later wondered why his toon got genericed.


I still wonder why Marvel bent themselves out of shape to get COH closed yet DC or other comic companies never did a thing.

[JaguarX]

At the same point I saw many many Supermen, all kinds of Batman rip offs. Hell I even teamed with a toon named Bruce Wayne that was a MA/SR scrapper. or a guy in my own SG that named a toon Wally West - had a Flash type costume - picked Superspeed as a scrapper and then later wondered why his toon got genericed.


I still wonder why Marvel bent themselves out of shape to get COH closed yet DC or other comic companies never did a thing.

It's just one of those things.

Some authors actively pursue and C&D every fan fic. thing they come across. Others don't.

Youtube-Some companies don't bother with their vids while some companies are notorious for C&D youtube videos.


Some gam companies don't mess with private servers while some actively seek them out and eve nthen that depends on the game and time of year and various other factors.


Just like someone here probably me more lenient about a friend ripping off their property and maybe not be happy with it but may not press charges compared to someone they hate and they probably will go the full entire extent of the law.

Choices. Some choose to go one way and others choose to not. Easiest thing to do is don't take or replicate what don't belongs to ya illegally. Then the choice of whether or not they will sue is not even an issue.

[CoyoteSeven]

Some authors actively pursue and C&D every fan fic. thing they come across. Others don't.

The word you're looking for is "litigious". Marvel Comics is quite litigious.

So is Disney, BTW. Remember those day care centers it bullied? A PR disaster for them, and Warner Bros. swooped down in a timely fashion and allowed them free use of their Looney Tunes characters.

[JaguarX]

The word you're looking for is "litigious". Marvel Comics is quite litigious.

So is Disney, BTW. Remember those day care centers it bullied? A PR disaster for them, and Warner Bros. swooped down in a timely fashion and allowed them free use of their Looney Tunes characters.

Yeah PR disaster but didn't slow them down and they still are one of the most powerful top grossing entertainment companies out there. PR is sometimes over rated especially when dealing with major corporations. Bad PR for a mom and pop store, yes it could be detrimental, but the point of business is not to do warm and fuzzy just to do warm and fuzzy. It's to make money. Like people, each have it's own personality. Some do a little bit more warm and fuzzy others don't do so much. WB, I gurantee ya, if someone use their stuff in a manner they don't like they will sue. And of course there will be a group of people that wont like it and say, "Oh because they sued, it was a PR disaster for them." Yeah the day care thing, a little uncouth IMO. But in reality how hard is it to simply ask for permission before using someone else property? That to me is more rude than Disney suing someone for using their stuff without permission.

But in today's world people seem to get it in their head they are entitled to stuff that don't belong to them and entitled to take what ever they please without permission and without question.

[FlyingCarcass]

I remember back in the early days of CoX; the Matrix was popular at the time so it seemed every other character was a clone of Neo or Agent Smith.

[FatherXmas]

The game was also full of Gokus, Vegetas and Piccolos.  Actually anything that was popular on the CN or AS at the time popped up in one form or another, thanks to the strength of the character creator.

[General Idiot]

Some people actually do have more fun playing someone else's character. Doesn't make much sense to me, but if that's what they enjoy who am I to look down on them for it? See also: Marvel Heroes.

[doc7924]

Some people actually do have more fun playing someone else's character. Doesn't make much sense to me, but if that's what they enjoy who am I to look down on them for it? See also: Marvel Heroes.

What makes DCUO so much more appealing is you can make your own hero - and still base it on a DCU hero if you like.

But Marvel's is like playing an online Ultimate Alliance - you could play Captain America - but so could 200 people and you all look the same, play the same, have the same powers.

The whole appeal of games like COH and DCU and Champions is yes you may try and copy a hero but you can also make your own original, where in Marvel's game you can't and that's the only reason I haven't bothered with it.

[Aggelakis]

What makes DCUO so much more appealing is you can make your own hero - and still base it on a DCU hero if you like.

But Marvel's is like playing an online Ultimate Alliance - you could play Captain America - but so could 200 people and you all look the same, play the same, have the same powers.

The whole appeal of games like COH and DCU and Champions is yes you may try and copy a hero but you can also make your own original, where in Marvel's game you can't and that's the only reason I haven't bothered with it.

Honestly, I barely even notice it. Marvel's game is more Diablo (which isn't surprising considering a couple of the Diablo guys are behind it) than anything. Diablo multiplayer is all kinds of repeated classes - there's only like 4 or 5 after all. And that's basically all the Marvel heroes are: a whole bunch of different classes. Plus with the three skill trees and limited skill points, not every character will play the same even if they're both Black Widow.

At least try it before you dismiss it out of hand, out of ignorance. :) I had the same opinion - in fact, a large contingent of the players in MH had the same opinion ("if everyone's playing X character, I won't feel special or unique!") - but actually experiencing the game is totally different.

[doc7924]

Honestly, I barely even notice it. Marvel's game is more Diablo (which isn't surprising considering a couple of the Diablo guys are behind it) than anything. Diablo multiplayer is all kinds of repeated classes - there's only like 4 or 5 after all. And that's basically all the Marvel heroes are: a whole bunch of different classes. Plus with the three skill trees and limited skill points, not every character will play the same even if they're both Black Widow.

At least try it before you dismiss it out of hand, out of ignorance. :) I had the same opinion - in fact, a large contingent of the players in MH had the same opinion ("if everyone's playing X character, I won't feel special or unique!") - but actually experiencing the game is totally different.

I am thinking more of the look. If I play a hero on a team or against others I'd rather not look exactly like people on my team or the other team.

Though I did sign up for it anyway - just haven't had the time to install and try it out.

[Aggelakis]

I am thinking more of the look. If I play a hero on a team or against others I'd rather not look exactly like people on my team or the other team.

There is that, but that is also fairly easy to overlook ingame. I barely notice it anymore. And I am DEFINITELY part of the "unique heroes!" contingent - it was part of my anti-Marvel-Heroes stance before I tried it out ;)

[srmalloy]

But you could just as easily make a Superiorman or Bat-Guy and we all wondered why DC never sued (as far as I know).

And they were being made; I remember, not long after City of Villains was released, coming across -- and reporting -- someone who'd created an SS/Inv Brute named 'Ubermensch', whose costume was blue tights, red briefs and boots, and a yellow belt, with a red 'U' on his chest; after the Marvel suit, it seemed to be too close to the trademarked character to let run around for DC to use as one more bit of evidence for a suit.