FF Tips?

[Xev]

Getting ready to make my first guy(s). Any tips?

I'm leaning towards a tank or melee. For block I'll probably take Force Shield. For self-res, I'll take the one with the longer recharge but I don't have to be in a lil circle. I've got a couple attacks that I might like to have that are upper tier - Dragon's Wrath and the ranged one from the Devastator (Earthsplitter?). I'm thinking about Str/Con/Int for SS's.

Other than that, things are pretty wide open at this point.

When I make a second guy, I might go Healer or something like a more durable version of Inferno that crits.

[JRVthatsME]

Sounds like something similar to Infinity Avenger's build might be what you're looking for.
http://shardsofparagon.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=472366&TabID=4074647&ForumID=2288876&TopicID=10392653&Page=1#49332912

We have lots of guides on this forum but they have gotten a little hard to track down now. Here's a link to the guide I created back when CoH players started coming to CO early in the year. It has lots of links to things you might find useful, or hadn't though about since you began playing CO.
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6623.msg82207.html#msg82207

Generally I would go with Parry as a block if I were doing a melee/tank free form toon, but it's best to get your concept thought out the way you want it and then pick the powers and advantages that fit and enhance it and complement each other. So I'd start with posting a list of the powers your toon absolutely has to have in order to be the kind of concept you want and then it would be easier to come up with power suggestions that should complement the ones you required for the concept. Also maybe describe what the toon you intend to make will be like so we can understand what you're going for better might help us come up with suggestions.

[General Idiot]

CO isn't really hard enough that you need to pick the most powerful stuff, more or less anything will be fine as long as you're not deliberately trying to gimp yourself. Thus, take whatever powers fit your concept.

That said, parry or energy shield with elusive monk or laser knight advantages respectively are great for melee builds.

[Xev]

Thanks guys, Food for thought. I'll check this stuff out and do some more thinking on which way I want to go. For some reason I didn't put any effort into thinking about this until now that I have the slot open. I gave Powerhouse a kinda bad rap before but it's useful when you team it up with the Wiki to get the details from when necessary.

I know I didn't give you much to go on. Haven't made a FF before so I thought I'd start by checking for any "You should check out/know this"'s that might come to mind.

I've only tried a small sample of what is available. Some of those powers are just worth mentioning due to they stand out. For example I've tried as many different Blocks as I have toons and the one that has stood out so far has been Force Shield. I'll be checking out Parry now. Earthsplitter was kinda a standout to me due to it is the only ranged melee attack that I've used and it's fast/spammable and has a nice KU cone - great for grabbing fast agro or saving a squishy by knocking the mobs off their feet. The combo of Force Shield and Dragon's Wrath is good mojo, too - good damage/defense with good energy return.

Thx guys, I'll check this stuff out and try and get a better idea what direction I'm going  : )

[JRVthatsME]

Don't forget about what specializations to choose as they do make a difference. The Warden and Vindicator specializations trees are excellent to choose as they will let you take " defensive stance" and "the best defense" when when you have them both cause your offense and defense scored to boost each other like crazy. Reading over what you're interested in have it may be a good idea to check out this review of the devastator archetype so you can get a good look at most of the heavy weapon attacks in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT8yQjq1JZI

Also remember that archetypes only have a total of 12 powers, but as a free form you can have a total of 14 powers and can choose some powers not available to archetypes. Also this video of the different block powers should be useful to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xv0rmXIQOA

Something else you may want o consider is that with free form you can break the mold as it were. For example if you wanted you can create a ranged tank and even add in 1 or 2 buff or healing powers.

[Xev]

Something else you may want o consider is that with free form you can break the mold as it were. For example if you wanted you can create a ranged tank and even add in 1 or 2 buff or healing powers.

Yeah I've thought about this too. I can see it isn't going to be an easy process for me  : ) I'm kinda a min/maxer at heart.

[JRVthatsME]

Well then this guide even though outdated should give you some good advice. http://ferv0r.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/guide-to-being-overpowered-in-champions-online/

If you cross reference what's in the above guide with what's in this guide you should be able to figure out a powerful build. It will all be a matter of taking this advice and fitting it to your concept. http://shardsofvirtue.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=462034&TabID=3983516&ForumID=2238817&TopicID=10272082&Page=1#48935158

[Xev]

That Ferv0r guide is dated but still interesting. Looks like my free time has been mapped out for awhile hehe. Thanks guys!

[Xev]

Hey, how does Powerhouse work with FF's?

For example: if I pick, say, Force Shield, and then later want to switch it to Parry, can I do that?

With AT's you can pretty much re-roll your guy as long as you have the Gs.

[JRVthatsME]

I think you might have to buy a token with ZEN (either the recon or respec token. I'm not sure which one as I've never played a FF yet due to not having the spare cash).

[Thunder Glove]

You can remove your powers in the reverse order that you picked them for Resources (L/N/G) in the Powerhouse.  If you have enough Resources, you can remove all the powers one at a time.

Full Retcon Tokens are only required if you completely want to redo your character from scratch.

[Xev]

So Retcons are if I want to change my SS's and/or Specializations?

[General Idiot]

A freeform character in the powerhouse can change anything, or everything. If you have the money to do it you won't even need a full retcon token. A full retcon without the token costs somewhere in the range of 250-300g at level 40 though.

As said, powers can be removed in the reverse order you got them. So the last power you got is removed first. Super stats, talents and inherent talent are done with the same button that resets specialisations for ATs. It'll also do that for freeforms, just along with removing the other stuff too.

[Xev]

A freeform character in the powerhouse can change anything, or everything. If you have the money to do it you won't even need a full retcon token. A full retcon without the token costs somewhere in the range of 250-300g at level 40 though.

Sweet! I can handle that. That's pretty cool.

[Xev]

It's a whole other world making a FF, huh?

So many creation options. And then there is the whole Role switching thing too. um. Wow.

Highly impressive and entertaining so far and I haven't even picked out a name yet.

[Todogut]

Check out From Concept To Build (A case study in designing a CO character build) by supercollide.

Also see Champions Online's Freeform Builds Directory moderated by KenpoJuJitsu3.

[Xev]

This thread is turning into Toon...building...pr0n.

[Xev]

I had to come down from Toon Building Heaven long enough to say thanks for getting me started!

So far, this Spec guide and Build library have been holding most of my attention.

[Xev]

Well after studying the naked facts and giving it some thought..

I think I've finally settled on my SS's including the Primary, have most powers picked out and mapped out up to lvl 17, have a theme, and, maybe even a name already. Luckily we can completely change our look on whim, practically, so, this can evolve over time.

There is gonna be a lot of flame. His knock and hold resists should be very respectable. He should be (a lot, I'm hoping) meatier than a CoH fire tank but that is what I kinda consider him. I have 2 very interesting Mastery choices with him and may switch them now and then depending on how things go.

Name.... FIREWALL!

Maybe.

Ugh.. names.

I've picked worse  : )

[LaughingAlex]

The most basic things you need in a freeform is self healing and also some damage mitigation.  Beyond that how offensive or defensive you wish to be is up to you largely.  The thing that truely separates freeforms from archtypes is the fact that they can be effective enough at taking care of themselves that they break the need for the holy trinity in teams, unlike the archtypes.  Some tricks I often use;

Ranged toons always take evasive maneuvers(even if it's getting toned downs lightly), and generally use energy unlocks that are most efficient with the ranged attacks being used.  Intelligence is used with concentration most of the time for the recharge speed.

For melee you need to have a lunge or you will struggle.  You should also take constitution because knockback will be all the worst without any knockback resistance, and constitution as a primary can provide that.  If you take strength though due to enrage stacking from any form giving enrage, you won't need constitution as a primary, consider it as a secondary for the defense boost from strength primary instead.

Active defenses, if you have two of them, the cooldown that active defenses share(30 seconds) is also reduced by cooldown reduction.  So if you wanna go crazy go with that.  My PFF toon uses that as a primary means of survivability due to her sheer recharge speed.(don't mention this on the CO forums or nerf nazis will go crazy trying to make it useless as to force the holy trinity on all freeformers, CO would suck if everyone had to have a dedicated healer keeping them alive).

[Xev]

I hear ya on the holy trinity thing but I do want a tank because sometimes ya just need one - or at least, they make life simpler. And I wanna be that guy sometimes that stands there and says 'screw you' while everything is pounding on him, greedily grabbing agro everywhere I can, allowing everyone else to go full tilt gonzo doing their thing.

For toon building heaven to be complete one thing I would wish for would be to have even just a few extra powers to play with when changing builds. For example, Offense passives only could go in the Ranged build and Defense passives only in Tank mode, allowing me to min/max more..

The fact that I can even change builds and change roles is sweet enough that I can't complain *too* much : )

Yet!

hehe

[General Idiot]

I personally actually don't really mind the trinity. Especially as it exists in CO, where a good healer can make up for the lack of a tank and a good tank can make up for no healer. And five good damage players can make up for both. So it's there, but not strictly enforced like in some games.

And yeah, I wish they let us have different powers in different builds without having to dedicate extra slots to them as well. I have a darkness character that managed to do it, but everything else I've tried just needs too many powers to start for that to be viable.

[LaughingAlex]

I personally actually don't really mind the trinity. Especially as it exists in CO, where a good healer can make up for the lack of a tank and a good tank can make up for no healer. And five good damage players can make up for both. So it's there, but not strictly enforced like in some games.

And yeah, I wish they let us have different powers in different builds without having to dedicate extra slots to them as well. I have a darkness character that managed to do it, but everything else I've tried just needs too many powers to start for that to be viable.

I don't see CO as a holy trinity game because the holy trinity isn't enforced, actually.  When it's enforced then yeah you got a holy trinity game.  Holy trinity is enforced when both a tank and healer are absolutely required, along with damage with room for nothing else in the game.

[Xev]

I kinda don't like lunge for some reason and always opt for acrobatics/versatility.

Advice here, PowerHouse, the wiki, and some nicely made guides and shared builds were/are a lot of help. I even came up with a look I don't mind looking at and am looking forward to every power/spec level that comes..

It is *really* nice I can do a *full* reroll, too. I mean, I'm just starting out with this process so who knows, I may just want to do a complete re-roll.

Well... and I just happened on a no level-limit Nimbus of Force. If I couldn't do a complete re-roll there's probly no way this first FF would get it and especially not at lvl 8..

PS
I'm really glad I'm finally ready to play and done making decisions because it sounds like my neighbor is sawing enough wood outside my window to build a house.. And with one of those cartoony saws that they use to cut people in half. Or an airplane.

[Xev]

Test 1:
Fatal Error 1
Level 8

Loots:
AF + Helmet + Dinged 9

Yes *strokes imaginary wizard's whiskers* I am liking this process so far.

[JRVthatsME]

What have you decided to choose for your Block, Slotted Passive and Toggle Buff (form)?

[Xev]

I squeezed in Force Shield and went with Regen.

I've been using a guru build as a guide, changing things as I go. The guru build has no toggle power but 3 active offenses instead. I've been thinking to toss in Concentration as that worked out pretty well with my Inferno (Edit: and I have Ego as a SS and am using primarily Fire attacks for damage) but am sticking with his idea of dps for now.

I grabbed Devour Essence with Crippling Challenge for the taunt/debuff/dmg/get-a-heal and I combine it with Force Shield and Fuel my Fire from the Con tree for some Energy boost. None of that stuff was in his build but it's gotten me through Fatal Alert 1 and I can get agro and not lose stars in Alerts.  And I just dinged 11.

I tried Fatal Alert 2 and tp'd out of the CyberTard fight due to I kept getting knocked into a wall (/stuck /stuck) and I wasn't knocking his hps down much anyway.

I'm taking Strength as a SS and the Knock Resist advantage from the Con tree, I'll be bahhck. To judge your puny KB. Cybertaaaard!

[Xev]

This is just a highly, highly, entertaining process. I've got a long ways to go with this first FF but I've got a few 40's already so I've got an idea where this is going and (nerfs aside..) it seems all good.

I can pick out just about any name I want. There is no Generic look unless you pick the defaults. And how many combos of powers and specializations are there, and then add that with gear and builds.

I mean come on.. What? This is good stuff.

Any argument about any other aspect of the game aside. Character Creation in CO is badass.

[General Idiot]

I've been thinking to toss in Concentration as that worked out pretty well with my Inferno (Edit: and I have Ego as a SS and am using primarily Fire attacks for damage) but am sticking with his idea of dps for now.

You should do this, yes. Take it in place of the third active offense probably, if you have three of those you're probably going to run into shared cooldowns anyway.

[Xev]

I can keep them going 50% of the time - at rank 2 they have a 15 second duration (how long a normal fight takes?)/30 second shared cooldown that starts when they fire off. There is a per power recharge of 90 seconds, so, when that 3rd Active Defense finishes it's shared cooldown, the 1st one is ready to go again.

For long fights I've got DoT stacking/debuffing, too.

It's an interesting idea due to the Active Offenses can be used while in and to break out of holds/roots/'disable' effects, they have nice effects, damage boost, and, they take no energy which is another decent bonus for this build. 1 of them even gives energy back. 1 of them raises ego & crit chance way up, which would be nice for the heal maintain I took as well as the overall dps boost (criting conflags??), and for mega hold resist when combined with an Ego secondary + the Con advantage for Hold resist.

I might try it out just for grins.

Until I hit near 40 and can get all 3 Active Offenses, I've thought about picking up Concentration just as something to use in the meanwhile.

[Xev]

This is still a pretty entertaining process for me. I've ran into my disappointments, like, that I can't take/have everything at once.. And I realize now that sometimes a good ol' straight-up leveling build can be useful in leveling up a late blooming build that can be retconned in later.

I see the argument better now about how it sucks that KB protection comes from Str. Because most times, if you aren't using melee for dps, Str as a SuperStat is just there sucking up one of my SS slots to provide me KB resist. It is a pretty effective game mechanic to separate the melee from the ranged...and it points back as an example of the example disappointment above.

One main function of Str and Ego seems to be to keep ranged guys ranged due to they can't tank due to pinballing unless they take Str which in most cases will gimp them - and melee guys (that have kb resists aka Strength) up close due to that's where most of their attacks do the most damage.

Anyway...

Being able to completely re-roll every single thing except your name at the PowerHouse is pretty darn nice. Now, just give me 2-4 more power slots, a good KB device or two, and we'll be gtg  : )

[Xev]

Had to update this saga due to the edge of yer seatiness of the topic..

Nearly 3 weeks later and I finally have a final... draft of my first FF build. It somehow ended up as the original Kosmoz started out to be, with Fire and Ice, and there's some whirling blades in there too,

Hat's off to this process. Looking forward to finishing it and starting it again... Prolly ~ the time of the next z-store sale.

As a side note, I understand why this isn't true for a lot of people, but, in my situation I think it's awesome that FF slots can be bought. I can live with the fact that I can't color code my powers, but, I dunno how it would hurt the game if I could. Having people running around with cooler looking toons seems like better advertising to me. There are plenty of other restrictions to get around if you buy your FF slots rather than rent them/get them via LTS. I'm happy. Just a thought.