Do you need to be the good guy?

[Super Firebug]

Does anyone else find it hard to conduct himself, in a game, in a way that he wouldn't in real life? I tried playing a few villains in CoV, and, as long as I was working against the other criminal groups, I could feel like I was still fighting crime. The Rogue Isles PD were (largely) corrupt, so I could bring myself to fight them. But I had trouble with missions where I had to attack Longbow or other crime-fighters.

And when I hit the Vendetti arc, it was bad enough that I'd gone ahead and hurt Worthington, who was just trying to help his niece. But when I found out Vendetti's plans for the niece, that was it. I could see doing that to someone who was part of the criminal world (part of The Game, to use a "Highlander" term). But using an innocent, and planning to heal her so that he could get her killed as his revenge.... It took me by surprise, and I was actually so sickened that I couldn't load CoV for months. I very much wanted a way to stop Vendetti, and rescue the niece (after she was cured, of course), as a way of correcting for the fact that I had helped him to set up that plan.

I know that lots of game-players can compartmentalize that sort of thing, and, for instance, commit vicious, people-hurting crimes in GTA. But something in me is wired so that I just have to be the good guy. To quote Bob the Guardian, from "ReBoot": "I guess I just can't go against my programming." Does anyone else experience this, to some degree?

I can imagine that someone will recommend that I try to break through that wall and "free" myself, but I don't want to. :shrug:

[Heroette]

That is the reason I hardly ever played "redside".  I just felt really bad beating up the good guys.  So, yes (for me).  My morality says for me to be good and so I am, even in my game playing (and I try in real life, which is harder to do, but not impossible).

[Tenzhi]

I've been a DM, so Evil comes as naturally to me in roleplaying as Good, though I prefer the latter (or better yet, a moderate "balanced" approach).

[JaguarX]

Does anyone else find it hard to conduct himself, in a game, in a way that he wouldn't in real life? I tried playing a few villains in CoV, and, as long as I was working against the other criminal groups, I could feel like I was still fighting crime. The Rogue Isles PD were (largely) corrupt, so I could bring myself to fight them. But I had trouble with missions where I had to attack Longbow or other crime-fighters.

I can imagine that someone will recommend that I try to break through that wall and "free" myself, but I don't want to. :shrug:

Well I suspect some people are not all that heroic in real life but had no qualms playing a hero and thus some probably had no issues roleplaying and conducting themselves differently online. And on forums I suspect most people that act like wild hooligans probably would say the stuff nor act like they do in real life face to face with a person.

Me, meh, I play either side with no qualms, what ever is fun with no reflection of who I am in real life. I'm not a super powered being nor a super powered villain nor would I randomly run over pedestrians and beat cops to death with a baseball bat. It's a game.

Even in games that come close to stuff I used to do in real life like certain FPS dealing with soldiers. In game, I have no qualms about robbing a dead body for weapons ammo and other items to use for myself even if I dont need it and leave the body laying there (unless I absoultely have to). Nor would I use a grenade to blow up just one person when a bullet would have sufficed or sneak up behind someone and shank them when I could get them to give up nor kill just for points and get on the high score board. But in game, anything goes.

[JKPhage]

When it comes to console games, where you have sort of an established avatar, yes, I find it VERY difficult to ever play an evil path. I've played all the Fable games, and when Fable 2 came out, I saw a pure/evil female screenshot and thought she looked really cool, but the only way I could stand to make myself look that way was by raising rent and prices way to high, haha. I couldn't bring myself to kill anyone, or steal, or anything else reprehensible. Same thing with InFamous. If someone was lying in the street, I didn't care if I had 50 transients on my tail, I stopped to revive them, and if I accidentally hurt someone, I'd do the same. Even if they're just digital beings I still just can't enjoy being a bad person.

COX on the other hand, I had no issues with at all. I'm a writer myself, and I enjoy creating characters and working out their motivations and such, and whenever I played COX it always felt like writing a new character's story rather than being evil myself. I was reasoning out how Diablofly wanted to make a clone army because she was psychotic and wanted to fill the world with her beautiful (mutant insectoid) face, or how Lily Wicked was willing to beat up on Doctor Aeon to earn some street cred with Arachnos, but when they went after her fellow spunky lady Amanda Vines, well... she was willing to ACT like she was trying to stop the broadcast, because she knew firsthand that you don't play around with demon magic. I viewed certain arcs and situations as sounding boards for "How would 'character' react to this?" Some of my villains were just money hungry, and they stuck to more bank heist/mayhem/jailbreak kind of crime, others wanted power and were willing to step on a few heroes and take a few hostages to get it, maybe even dabbled in a bit of dark magic, and even a few were severely mentally broken and honestly did terrible things for messed up reasons that defy explanation to anyone but them. I picked and chose missions/arcs based on what I thought that particular character would do.

That's one reason I had such trouble playing through Praetorian content, honestly. I would finish a Loyalist arc and see something so utterly disgusting from them that I'd defect to Resistance, and by the time the next morality mish rolled around I'd have been so put off by their methods that I'd decide maybe the Praetors weren't so bad after all, then by the time I got to level 20 my poor characters were so messed up in the head from alignment whiplash that I didn't know WHAT I wanted to do with them, haha.

[dwturducken]

I never really had a problem changing sides. I actually had a lot of fun, years ago, in a D&D session where my character was replaced by a doppleganger. I even played a couple of evil characters, in other sessions. It's not how I am, but it's just a game. I wouldn't expect Harrison Ford to be able to carry on an in-depth conversation about archeology, because he's just an actor.

The problem I had was that, aside from a couple of new "gangs," you basically were doing the same kind of missions as on blue side. Sure, you were kidnapping someone instead of rescuing them, but the basic mechanic of the mission was the same. I spent a lot of time, over there. My only 50 was on red side, but I liked the archetypes better.

[saipaman]

I never switched a red-side character over to blue-side.

I simply could not suspend my belief that there was no hope of redemption for characters that were serial mass murders.

[Super Firebug]

Even if they're just digital beings I still just can't enjoy being a bad person.

I know this one will be hard to believe. I was playing "Search & Rescue 2" (a helicopter flight sim, where you, as a Coast Guard pilot, rescued people). The mission was to fly out to a cruise ship, take aboard an elderly passenger suffering from food poisoning, fly him to the hospital, and land on the roof helipad; just touching down (and maybe shutting down the engines? I forget) counted him as saved. On the way to the hospital, I kept getting updates from the medic, saying that the man was getting worse and worse. With each update, I tried to coax a little more speed out of the chopper. As we approached the hospital, I lined up my flight path, and set myself to charge in and massively dump off speed at the last moment. But I had overestimated how quickly I could slow down, and grossly overshot the roof. I turned around, and charged back to the helipad, but, before I crossed the edge of the roof, the medic said that the old guy had died. I actually felt bad about the fact that my actions had kept me from saving him.

Digital they may be, but that doesn't keep me from getting enough into the game to want to help.

[houtex]

As much as I enjoyed playing heroes and Blueside, and was ok with the Praetorian Gold... There was something viscerially satisfying for me when I was playing Cerise Dawn.  Out of all my redside characters, hers was as twisted up and evil as Wesley Phipps, or Joker in TDK.  She was insane with rage, and wanted... NEEDED... to have everyone else hurt.  That whole "Destined One" thing was but a stepping stone to her real conquest... Torturing and eliminating everyone on the planet, until she was the last one left, so that everyone would know her pain of loss.

Yeah, she was a little nutz.

But I loved it, because she was using her Mind/Psi powers for one purpose: Inflicting pain on you poor bastidges.  That she could also throw you around was bonus, but really she lived to literally liquify your brains in a horrific, agonizing fashion.  Or at least.. that's how I 'saw' her using those powers, although we all know they were proliferated from a 'Troller and 'Fender set, and weren't supposed to be that vicious in use.

Whatever.  Chick was mental, she was liquifying brains, and enjoying doing it, and that's that.

So no, I don't need to be the good guy.  I enjoy being the extremly vengeance driven psychotic bad guy.  Or gal, in her case.

[JaguarX]

As much as I enjoyed playing heroes and Blueside, and was ok with the Praetorian Gold... There was something viscerially satisfying for me when I was playing Cerise Dawn.  Out of all my redside characters, hers was as twisted up and evil as Wesley Phipps, or Joker in TDK.  She was insane with rage, and wanted... NEEDED... to have everyone else hurt.  That whole "Destined One" thing was but a stepping stone to her real conquest... Torturing and eliminating everyone on the planet, until she was the last one left, so that everyone would know her pain of loss.

Yeah, she was a little nutz.

But I loved it, because she was using her Mind/Psi powers for one purpose: Inflicting pain on you poor bastidges.  That she could also throw you around was bonus, but really she lived to literally liquify your brains in a horrific, agonizing fashion.  Or at least.. that's how I 'saw' her using those powers, although we all know they were proliferated from a 'Troller and 'Fender set, and weren't supposed to be that vicious in use.

Whatever.  Chick was mental, she was liquifying brains, and enjoying doing it, and that's that.

So no, I don't need to be the good guy.  I enjoy being the extremly vengeance driven psychotic bad guy.  Or gal, in her case.

yeah one of my "heroes" on CO just simply enjoy hurting people. When she was in Rogue isle, she liked it but wanted to be praised for it, and not constantly looking over her shoulder for both villains she ticked off and PPD,  rewarded for her work, given the key to the city and a penthouse. Thus she started a new leaf in MC and now she can hurt all the villains she want and no one get wise and people love her for it and she gets to do what she enjoys most- hurting people.

[Twi]

My first time through in games, I tend to play the villain where I can.

Wasn't applicable to CoH since I started pre CoV, though.

[Rust]

The only game I've played a bad guy and actively enjoyed it was Star Wars: The Old Republic as a Sith Warrior.

Turning the Jedi Padawan to the Dark Side is so deliciously sadistic.

But for the most part, I play the goodie-goodies. Heck, I try to obey traffic laws in GTA.

[FatherXmas]

In GTA 3 I thought of myself as being deep undercover.

It's probably one of the reasons I couldn't really get into CoV even though I liked the Rogue Isles, I'm just to darn LG.

[Ceremonius]

Well nothing against Villains, but in CoV I just managed to get 1 (in word ONE) character to 50.
Somehow I didn't liked how it felt to be villianous in CoV. Also I do mostly play the evil guys, or at least characters who serve their own vigilantism.

Means in SWG I was a high ranking soldier of the Empire, also torturing the suspicous. Yeah I did lived in a hardcore roleplaying city in that game.
Server: Farstar
Planet: Naboo
City: Sunrise Beach

Back in Ultima Online I served as evil'ish minion of a Vampire Lady. Plotting, scheming, and corrupting the lawful citizen in the nearest town. Also fighting the holy order . Also no one knew that I was her servant.

Somehow CoH/V was the first game I didn't managed to play a evil character. Maybe because I felt somehow always way to powerless for being an "super"-villain.

[FlyingCarcass]

Whenever I play a villain in a video game, I find it fun to go full "MWUHAHA!". Of course, it would be nice if more games allowed villainous characters to do more than just randomly slaughter folks.

On a side note, I wish my copy of Evil Genius would work on my current computer without constantly crashing. Now -that- game was "Mwuhaha!" worthy, mostly due to the trap-making.

[Dollhouse]

Never had a problem playing bad guys. Although I'm an "immersion junkie roleplayer," my characters are most definitely not me. I try to make each character a distinct individual...and some of 'em ain't so nice.

[dwturducken]

The only game I've played a bad guy and actively enjoyed it was Star Wars: The Old Republic as a Sith Warrior.

Turning the Jedi Padawan to the Dark Side is so deliciously sadistic.

But for the most part, I play the goodie-goodies. Heck, I try to obey traffic laws in GTA.

Oh, now I have to make a Jedi and make all Dark Side choices, just to see what happens...

And, obeying the traffic laws is just good sense. You have to keep the heat off when you're in a hot car. unless it's a tank. You can't drive nonchalantly in a tank.

[Felderburg]

I prefer being the good guy. Probably because most of the stuff I read or played growing up was about good guys. In the KOTOR games, I went light side; Mass Effect, paragon. In CoH, I could never get into being a villain. Part of it was the powers, I guess, and part of it was the fact that there was only two starting contacts I did over and over whenever I made a new villain, but mostly it was the fact that I vastly preferred hero side. Even when I finally found a villain whose powers and costume I liked (created by a friend of mine, which might be telling) I made it up to 50 mostly because I was determined to get to 50 to experience the content, rather than because I enjoyed being a villain. I mostly had fun smashing things, and did *not* enjoy Phipps at all.

I actually vaguely remember a conversation with my college roommate and @Victim51 (RIP) who lived down the hall from me. @Victim51 noticed that I was stopping to save people being mugged in Atlas, and started poking fun at me for saving fake people. I wish I could recall exactly what my roommate said, but it led to @Victim51 saying "And we're real!" It was funny in context, but it goes to show that I do prefer being the good guy - even if it means stopping my rush from one thing to another to help an NPC in Atlas.

[Heroette]

I would stop in Atlas to help the NPC that was being robbed all the time.  I just like to help (even though the NPC's were pretty dumb.  I mean, what were they doing alone on the roof top in the first place?).

[Thunder Glove]

Never had a problem playing bad guys. Although I'm an "immersion junkie roleplayer," my characters are most definitely not me. I try to make each character a distinct individual...and some of 'em ain't so nice.

This, exactly.  I love my villains, but I am not my villains.  Or my heroes, for that matter.

And my villains aren't all the same.  Thunder Glove was a relatively deep character, a Hero-turned-Villain in backstory, and later (thanks to the alignment system) Villain-turned-Rogue, when Arachnos ordered him to murder children; Dr. Bodog, on the other hand, was a classic Golden Age mad scientist, cackling as he sent his robots out to destroy everything in their wake, and god help the hero who gets in his way, who gleefully did even Weston Philips' missions without hesitation.

Of course, I sometimes (okay, frequently) broke character if there was just an arc (heroic, villainous, or otherwise) I wanted to do with them.  (Because, yes, it's just a game, and I liked them as much as piles of powers and numbers as I did characters.  Even then, I could justify it through Thunder Glove's remaining heroic impulses, and Dr. Bodog's enjoyment of being in the spotlight, demanding awe and fear from onlookers)

... dammit, I miss this game so much.

[Ceremonius]

I would stop in Atlas to help the NPC that was being robbed all the time.  I just like to help (even though the NPC's were pretty dumb.  I mean, what were they doing alone on the roof top in the first place?).

Basejumping?

But yes, I did also serv the greater good. Helping people might gives you something back in the future. Thinking of: Hero gets old, has to retire and is getting inside a nursehome. It's better to be known to be the good guy. Otherwise someone would say "Hey! That guy didn't save me! He laughed at me while I got robbed! Payback time!"

[Nos482]

[doc7924]

The thing for me that made playing a villain in COV useless after a while was that you were villians and 90% of the time you just fought other villains.

[dwturducken]

But villains are inherently distrustful and often would fight amongst themselves. Even when they would team up, it was an uneasy alliance. When your goal is world domination, or even just the tri-state area, you don't tend to want to share that.

To that end, I would generally stick to soloing on red side.

[JaguarX]

The thing for me that made playing a villain in COV useless after a while was that you were villians and 90% of the time you just fought other villains.

yeah I noticed that too.

Now I know the path to "World domination," although in COV it mean working for arachnos and dominating a piece that isnt already claimed by one of the LTs or LR, tends to involve having to fight off other villains when the time comes, 90% of the fight should have been against heroes, with the 10% making sure no one rises against ya or hold ya down. Instead of the other way around 90% fighting other villains 10% longbow and PPD

[Rust]

Yeah, Redside content didn't work for me. I felt more like a Enforcer - a Super Powered "Tough" - rather then a legitimate world dominating Super Villain in my own right. Then again, how do you write dynamic content for a world dominating Super Villain?

There were some gems here and there though. The Cloning Facility being a big one, but another being the "hidden" mission chain where you worked with the spirit of a Muu sorcerer for mutual gain. Sadly those were few and far between the usual "You work for me" kind of stuff we normally got.

[JaguarX]

Yeah, Redside content didn't work for me. I felt more like a Enforcer - a Super Powered "Tough" - rather then a legitimate world dominating Super Villain in my own right. Then again, how do you write dynamic content for a world dominating Super Villain?

There were some gems here and there though. The Cloning Facility being a big one, but another being the "hidden" mission chain where you worked with the spirit of a Muu sorcerer for mutual gain. Sadly those were few and far between the usual "You work for me" kind of stuff we normally got.

I dont know. good question. I guess a start would be less and less arachnos and achonos affiliated people and more and more "gained" enforcers of ya own and or informats.

Like "boss, I hear longbow set up shop around the corner."  Or "boss, longbow raided one of our spots. We are out manned out gunned."

Then I'm dead on the one that may fit a lone wolf looking for domination.


Probably why there isnt many villain games unless ya go the GTA route.

[Electric-Knight]

I really enjoy playing either side of the Hero/Villain dynamic.

My enjoyment of these games is more from the mentality of a writer and/or an actor, so I love exploring the psychology of the character and examine what that might teach me or, just simply, what fun it might bring.

As with acting (and writing too), sometimes the most fun comes from being the villain.
Both in a fun and/or grand sense, but also in a very serious, psychological exploration.
When you can create a fictional being that is twisted and terrible... but you understand how that (once pure) being became that way and/or why and how they do what they do... and what they think and feel about it and/or how they avoid facing the reality of what they do...
It is actually a powerful experience that can help you in dealing with people and problems of the real world.

Don't get me wrong. I can find just as much depth in a hero character as well.
However, I've never had any qualm with exploring the darker side.

I want to say, "within my fiction" at the end of that sentence, but it's more fun to just leave it like that, hahaha. 

While I have a few seemingly shallow thugs, brutes and killers in my roster, really, they all have a layer of depth which created those aspects within those people.
My main villain, Malfaz, however, is an example of a very deep and tragic persona, tortured by physical and psychological ailments, that is both psychotic killer and a delusional, misguided vigilante, in a sense.

Then I have Zox'Oculox, who is an alien who is mostly a product of his evil, barbaric and disgusting culture. Zox is likely my most simplistic of villains.
I have many others that fall in-between he and Malzaf, but every single one of them is just a person/being whose experiences, personality, faults, quirks, weaknesses and strengths (plus consequences, circumstances and all) led them into being who they are.

Regardless... in terms of personal/player morality... it's all just pushing keys and buttons and making enemies' numbers go down while keeping your numbers up.
The rest is poetry, whether dark or light.

 

[Castegyre]

"I don't play monsters. I play men besieged by fate and out for revenge." ~Vincent Price

I have no problem with being the bad guy at all in a role play setting. I just need the right motivation.

[JaguarX]

Yeah this remind me of something a couple of my friends told me. Now at first I found it funny, but then I found it a bit chilling.

First it started off I loaned someone a good deal of cash, they never paid it back, in fact they started to avoid me. This person was afraid to come forward because they were serious convinced I was going to bury them out in the desert. Now I said I dont look like a scary guy and not big enough to look intimidating but my friends said, "That is what makes you so damned scary." Now curious I asked "How?" Their reply in a nutshell was "You could kill us all right now and no one will take our word for it due to our looks and criminal record. You're clean and you probably wouldnt even be a suspect." 

I couldnt help but laugh. These guys, many been in and out of jail since they were in middle school thinking some dude from the surburbs never been arrested (been questioned) or convicted think that I could take over the criminal activities in this city and no one getting wise. But at the same time chilling, they are right. If they jay walk, they probably will get hassled and searched. Me, aint no cop going to pay attention because visually I dont fit the look of a criminal. I wonder how many people get caught up merely because they look the part of a villain and how many people get away with even murder because they simply dont look like  they could do it and simply could claim self defense if they are questioned and no one thinks anything more of it. Of course I wouldnt do a thing like that or murder someone although sometimes to get a point across, I did "bend" the rules a bit, but never broke a law. Only time I ever actually got put in hand cuffs and taken down to a station was off one beer coming through a check point got blew and got dropped back off at my vehicle and told to have a nice day and nothing more within two hours.

[Taceus Jiwede]

I have actually always like games that there isn't a black and white good guy bad guy type thing.  That the villains may not be evil as much as their are just products of their enviorment and were born out of necessity.  And like wise, that heroes are not always good just because they wear a badge or fight for the right side.  For example a person of wealth could easily become a "hero" because they never would have to steal to eat or would never have to join a gang for a family.  Sometimes things that seem good are really bad, and things that seem bad are done to survive.  And sometimes good people have to do bad things for good reasons.  So while I tend to always gravitate to the good side because it is more in my nature to help, I like to see situations where the line gets blurred because it is not always black and white.  For example would someone really be a good guy for putting a person in jail for stealing some apples to feed their family?  It of course is wrong to steal and there are alternatives but it is always wrong to take the provider from a family.  Now if only games offered more options like "Pay off the mans bill and help him find work" although that would probably be a boring game....

[JaguarX]

I have actually always like games that there isn't a black and white good guy bad guy type thing.  That the villains may not be evil as much as their are just products of their enviorment and were born out of necessity.  And like wise, that heroes are not always good just because they wear a badge or fight for the right side.  For example a person of wealth could easily become a "hero" because they never would have to steal to eat or would never have to join a gang for a family.  Sometimes things that seem good are really bad, and things that seem bad are done to survive.  And sometimes good people have to do bad things for good reasons.  So while I tend to always gravitate to the good side because it is more in my nature to help, I like to see situations where the line gets blurred because it is not always black and white.  For example would someone really be a good guy for putting a person in jail for stealing some apples to feed their family?  It of course is wrong to steal and there are alternatives but it is always wrong to take the provider from a family.  Now if only games offered more options like "Pay off the mans bill and help him find work" although that would probably be a boring game....

That is why I always say no one or nothing is all good or all evil is 99.999999% of the cases.

[Shenku]

Generally speaking, my natural reactions when playing any types of games that offer moral choices is to do what I would do/say what I would say in real life. Often, this means I always end up firmly blue in spectrum.

Granted, I can force myself to go against my nature when needed, and I can "become" the bad guy to enjoy a series of guilty fantasies, but it feels weird when I do this...

A good example is in the Knights of the Old Republic games(and more recently, SW:TOR which I'm now playing...). For some reason, almost every time, unless I intentionally go against my first instincts, I always end up gaining light side points, and become such a picturesque idealism of what it is to be a Jedi(assuming the choices aren't confusing from lack of context of what your choice means... Less of an issue in TOR since they have indicators of whether you gain light side or dark side points from conversation choices...).

This was especially weird for me when I joined SW:TOR's beta, and rolled my first character as a Sith Warrior... You think Sith, and instinctively think "evil" right? Well, I didn't actively force my choices of actions, I just let them happen... I didn't get far in the beta before it ended, but the direction my character started moving in was very distinctly unbecoming of a Sith Lord, since I not only had removed Vette's shock collar(and quickly at that...), but I was actually choosing to be merciful, and letting people live, and helping people, and.... Well let's be honest, I doubt a Sith Lord cannon-wise had ever been so Light Sided before my character came along....

Suffice to say, when I jumped back into the game when it eventually went free to play, I resurrected that character as a Jedi Councilor instead, and made it much further in level already that way, and it feels nice to not be constantly worried about punishment for being "nice", as Sith are very unforgiving of the concept of "mercy"... Although, due to the character's history as formerly being Sith during the beta, she occasionally ends up being a bit of an impatient smartass... (Although that could be more related to feelings of frustration, anger, and impatience from my current job, and not at all attributed to the character's origins... For the sake of pride, I'd rather it was the former, but my always-self-honest side says that the latter is not entirely without influence on this...)

I think the most difficult time I had with moral choices in any game though, was with CoH's Going Rogue. I was so conflicted on what my character was doing with the Resistance, even though out of character wise I knew that Cole's empire was evil and needed to be stopped and that the Resistance was right to be fighting Cole's empire, but the methods the Resistance was using left me so morally conflicted, I never actually managed to finish going through the entire Resistance storyline. It was great writing, but perhaps too great because it was so morally ambiguous that I wasn't able to get through it all...

[crayehal]

I'm the opposite and prefer to be the bad guy.  If I want to beat somebody up, I don't need a reason and I just beat them up.  If I play hero, I somehow feel out of place.  In the end, I had about over 50 villains and just a scant 3 heroes.

[CheerGunbunny]

I mostly made villains.  But always with a reason...Main villain, Pinnacle, was DM/FA Brute...she was a demon.  Her "evil" was a product of being pissed off at being stuck here, and a towering contempt for the "lower beings" around her.  Another was a redneck as hell "Girls Gone Wild"  type videos "star", who found some alien tech (Corruptor, DP/Therm), and was looking for payback at all the "good" people who'd always scorned her for being white trash/redneck/ignorant/slut.  Main Virtue Villain, she was pissed at the government and society in general...her closeted girlfriend suicided at prospect of being outed by "Coffee Caucus" (Tea Party knock) people in charge at her cutting edge nanotechnology research job and getting fired...so Decaffeinator swiped some combat nanotech after the funeral, ingested it, and started running wild.

I like to to be the bad one.

[Epelesker]

I'm a good guy. I did have a character on redside previous to i17, but villains were always something I could never do.

[Mantic]

No, I don't need to be the "good guy." Heck, I'm more balanced than that in real life.

What I don't like in games is being forced onto rails. Of any kind, but most particularly being told my motivations, forced into doing things I don't like in order to progress, or worst of the worst, fed a completely lame and two-dimensional morality path, like in the Fable games. If the game were a simple side-scroller, sure, I don't mind pattern and predictability, and motivations hardly play a role. But in a game like CoX, where creativity is so broadly encouraged, I felt that I sometimes had to just ignore what the developers decided to write me into.

AE, though limited and often frustrating, was awesome for getting away from that kind of dissonance and playing games designed specifically for my various characters (I even had a mission for my anthropomorphic chicken superhero, where he could run around collecting his stolen hens and then battle the fox who scattered them). But, of course, you don't get all the badges and other rewards doing things that way, or much teaming action...

The thing for me that made playing a villain in COV useless after a while was that you were villians and 90% of the time you just fought other villains.

That, too. Same problem: rails.

[Thunder Glove]

The thing is, I always loved villain-vs-villain stories, so taking down other villains to prove I was the top dog?  I didn't mind that at all.  I relished it as much as I did taking down the Second String Hero Brigade (you know the guys I mean) in Morality and Mayhem missions.  I didn't mind my villain taking on Mot or Tyrant, because they represented a threat to my character's own world domination plans, and you threaten a villain at your own peril.

True, I don't think they set the proper tone for villains when CoV opened (the newspaper missions, the most noticeable holdover from that, are especially badly-written, presenting your character as nothing but a low-tier money-grubber living in a crummy thin-walled apartment, fencing away every item of power he gets), but they had grokked onto what players wanted after that, and the Redside writing had improved by leaps and bounds since then, culminating in the villainside SSA2 (where you form your own villain group to rival Arachnos), and I'm sure it would have continued to improve if not for... you know.

I'm generally awkward and introverted in real life, and I'm often overlooked in crowds, so I enjoy playing these larger-than-life villains who stand (or hover) in the center of things and demand (and, more importantly, receive) attention and respect.

[JaguarX]

yeah just wish there was a little bit more actual world domination on the villain side. Felt like I was taking out villains that wasa mroe of a threat to Arachnos than to myself.
Like when I kidnap scientist I wanted to kidnap them for my use not to turn them over for the use of ARachnosof the contact at the time.

[Electric-Knight]

This is all why I pretty much only ran newspaper missions (and then AE, later on).

I don't mind generic mission content, in fact, I tend to prefer it over more specific story arcs, because my imagination and own creations take over to fill the gaps/blanks and make it my own.

Villain-side, running newspaper missions, allowed me to decide what I was doing and to do things for my own reasons/desires/gains.

Then again, I tended to enjoy just doing radio missions on blue side, hehehe...

[Kaiser Tarantula]

If you really wanted to feel like a villain on redside, you needed to run mission for one guy - Westin Phipps.  No missions quite made you feel like such a bastard for completing them.  Refreshing, really, from the usual "X villain group is causing trouble, go smack them around to teach them their place" missions you usually get.  Other missions that can make you feel like a proper villain include the Absolute Vengeance story arc from Arbiter Daos in Grandville, anything from Vernon von Grun in Grandville, and Johnny Sonata's story arc in St. Martial.

Killing a dude's kid, helping an aspiring mad scientist, and obliterating a famous singer's soul.  Good stuff, right?

[JaguarX]

If you really wanted to feel like a villain on redside, you needed to run mission for one guy - Westin Phipps.  No missions quite made you feel like such a bastard for completing them.  Refreshing, really, from the usual "X villain group is causing trouble, go smack them around to teach them their place" missions you usually get.  Other missions that can make you feel like a proper villain include the Absolute Vengeance story arc from Arbiter Daos in Grandville, anything from Vernon von Grun in Grandville, and Johnny Sonata's story arc in St. Martial.

Killing a dude's kid, helping an aspiring mad scientist, and obliterating a famous singer's soul.  Good stuff, right?

yup. except the burning book thing was a bit weak on the villain scale. Luckily I dont think it was part of the main arcs.

The rest felt like mostly an agent for arachnos stuff. Capture Francine for Arachnos torture or covering tracks so Arachnos dont pick up on it. Or deal with someone that is a spy that Arachnos want gone. Geesh, that put a damper on feeling villainous and feel like I might as well be Arachnos. Although it made more sense playing a Bane Spider though.

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Although it made more sense playing a Bane Spider though.

As an Arachnos Soldier myself, it did make a lot more sense on that character than others.

[JaguarX]

As an Arachnos Soldier myself, it did make a lot more sense on that character than others.

Yeah, when I made my spider I made sure to do that arc, as other than the arachnos lackey overtones, it was a very well written arc and fitting for a arachnos soldier.

The rest of the toons after a while I just skipped it.

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Mhm.  Then again, it's not like working for Hardcase, where he constantly says, "Hey, I know you're a villain, but we gotta protect our own, right?"

I wanted to backhand him with a spider-leg and go, "NO, numbnuts, we don't 'protect our own' - we hunt the demons for GOOD PAY, and if they don't pay, we let whoever failed to pay our bill face the music.  Then, to keep the money moving through the casinos at Babylon, we put some OTHER schmuck in charge!  Y'know, one that ISN'T hunted by every demon from here to Grandville."  On my villain characters, I could care less if some citizens get munched or their souls stolen by demons.  That's your problem, Hardcase, not mine.  It only becomes my problem if you have sufficient payment to make it worth my time.

At least working for Westin Phipps had you engaged in some honest-to-badness villainy.  Poisoning food supplies for the needy, kidnapping a teacher trying to reform the Freakshow, ensuring that the homeless remain downtrodden by Arachnos, yeah - you're genuinely doing some reprehensible stuff.  Even other members of Arachnos are appalled at Westin's kind of depravity.

A lot of the villain content of the Rogue Isles had the same issue - it's more of what I'd expect from a rogue than an out-and-out villain.  I loved it, as I kinda like the whole 'noble demon' kind of character, but there needed to be more opportunities to be a straight-up fiend or at least a jerk.

[JaguarX]

Mhm.  Then again, it's not like working for Hardcase, where he constantly says, "Hey, I know you're a villain, but we gotta protect our own, right?"

I wanted to backhand him with a spider-leg and go, "NO, numbnuts, we don't 'protect our own' - we hunt the demons for GOOD PAY, and if they don't pay, we let whoever failed to pay our bill face the music.  Then, to keep the money moving through the casinos at Babylon, we put some OTHER schmuck in charge!  Y'know, one that ISN'T hunted by every demon from here to Grandville."  On my villain characters, I could care less if some citizens get munched or their souls stolen by demons.  That's your problem, Hardcase, not mine.  It only becomes my problem if you have sufficient payment to make it worth my time.

At least working for Westin Phipps had you engaged in some honest-to-badness villainy.  Poisoning food supplies for the needy, kidnapping a teacher trying to reform the Freakshow, ensuring that the homeless remain downtrodden by Arachnos, yeah - you're genuinely doing some reprehensible stuff.  Even other members of Arachnos are appalled at Westin's kind of depravity.

A lot of the villain content of the Rogue Isles had the same issue - it's more of what I'd expect from a rogue than an out-and-out villain.  I loved it, as I kinda like the whole 'noble demon' kind of character, but there needed to be more opportunities to be a straight-up fiend or at least a jerk.

lmao. Yeah Hardcase. I had to check to make sure I was still on redside.

I was thinking the same along those lines. "Protect our own? Hell naw. Those that can pay get a pass. Those that don't, well then, sucks to be them. And definitely get rid of that Sinata guy. Who wears a yellow suit these days?"

Yeah westin Phipps wasn't the worse. Over all redside felt like a mischievous rogue rather than a true super villain that is to be feared.

[Samurai Cowgirl]

In 90% of the games you play the hero by default, even if you set yourself evil in the end you "save the world" and the best you can do is be a jerk about it or be conscripted to service. Nice to have a change.

While it wasn't superb, I always enjoyed it. Evil plots (even if they weren't you own), backstabing, heroes to fight, and plenty of bank robberies (for your self maded evil plots). Still as per the concensus it needed more evilness, or possibly more good ...to defeat

[MindBlender]

Hmmm, I guess the reason I played a MM was that I had my minions doing most of the killing.  I'm a good guy so it made taking down the longbow tough.  Only 1 50 vil and that was the MM (Bots/dark). 

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Is it just me... or did anyone else hate freakin' Longbow?

Jumped-up red-and-white spandex-wearing gits playing at being a military.  I'm sorry, but having basic competency with an assault rifle and shooting it at supervillains does not make you a superhero.  It most certainly does not entitle you to wear brightly-colored spandex.  No offense to the Assault Rifle folks out there - you, after all, have far more than basic competency with your weapon of choice.

Sure, Arachnos has its own spider-themed outfits, but at least they give their people body armor and genuinely-high-tech customized weaponry.  I never felt bad about wasting Longbow - it's no coincidence, I think, that Longbow's two primary colors also happen to be the colors that bullseyes are traditionally painted in.  Those pseudo-military superhero wannabes had it coming, as far as I care.  The only Longbow I have any modicum of respect for is the Wardens - at least they have honest-to-goodness superpowers to justify the ridiculous getup.

I feel the same way about Manticore's Wyvern agents.  At least they have the decency not to be seen very often.  If Longbow was stupid for using standard-issue military weaponry in lieu of superpowers, Wyvern's even dumber.  C'mon, firearms made bows obsolete in warfare for a reason.  If you're going to use a bow, at least have the decency to pack some gas arrows or explosive arrows.  Y'know something that makes your choice of a weapon from the early 15th century seem practical.

Again, no offense to the actual archery and trick arrow heroes & villains out there.  You guys actually bother to make it interesting with neat trick shots and specialized arrows.  Most Wyvern agents, on the other hand, have all the archery skills of a child taken to an archery range by their parents once or twice.  Honestly, my experience is that it's about as effective against a competent supervillain as being smacked in the face with a sock balled up in a wet paper bag.