Author Topic: Handicapped Parking and YOU.  (Read 12139 times)

Sailboat

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »
Ugh.  Long ago I worked for an international consulting company.  Their star trainers and motivational speakers did a lot of traveling.  One day they needed someone to drive to the airport and drop off a company car for a bigwig to arrive later that night;  they were short-handed and needed a second car to follow the company car so both drivers could return to the workplace, and I got asked to be the following driver.

The executive secretary drove to the airport, parked in the best handicapped spot right by the door, opened the glovebox, retrieved the company-maintained handicap parking pass for executives who want to park near the door, and got in  my car cool as a cucumber, just like she hadn't done anything wrong.

 >:(

Segev

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 02:57:02 PM »
I can understand - disagree with, but understand - the "no positive discrimination" angle on it.

That it is "insulting to the handicapped" is farcical, however, because those who are capable and choose not to use it are free to do so, and nobody is going to gainsay them.

As well, most of the time, handicap spaces are a voluntary compassionate service provided by the proprietor of the store or other location. The "legal enforcement" is there to help him with his choice. He picks where and how many handicap spaces to grant, after all.

I can agree that braile on drive-thru signs is just plain dumb, and an example of lack of common sense in government regulation. I'm largely in favor of less government regulation overall.

Treating people as if they have identical needs is one of the great sins of modern "equality" mindsets. Worse, it often conflates with the foolish notion that everybody has a right to "equal" outcomes.

Every person is different. Every person is a "special snowflake." The handicapped spaces are not on an honor system, generally speaking, but it can only possibly be insulting to a handicapped person who feels compelled to use it by social pressure. I do not think such a thing exists. If you don't think you need it, don't use it. If you're able-bodied and saying it insults handicapped people, you're just looking for a way to excuse being a jerk. There is a fully demonstrable need for some people to have larger space to maneuver in while getting out, and to travel less distance across a parking lot.

The only way it could be insulting is if you told people who believed otherwise that they can't do it on their own. Since it's self-selecting, that statement is never being made by the presence of the handicapped spaces and laws protecting them.

GuyPerfect

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2013, 04:34:50 PM »
As well, most of the time, handicap spaces are a voluntary compassionate service provided by the proprietor of the store or other location. The "legal enforcement" is there to help him with his choice. He picks where and how many handicap spaces to grant, after all.

In the United States, this statement is absolutely false. Section 4.1.2 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (federal law) Accessibility Guidelines state the minimum number of mandatory accessible parking spaces relative to the total number of parking spaces in the lot. Section 4.6 goes on to describe further requirements such as accessible parking space placement and designation.

The only scenario in which handicap parking is optional is when the number exceeds the minimum requirement. Anything greater than the minimum requirement is voluntary, but the spaces are still required to comply with section 4.6.

I can agree that braile on drive-thru signs is just plain dumb, and an example of lack of common sense in government regulation. I'm largely in favor of less government regulation overall.

This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired. But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.

More reading on the subject from The Straight Dope:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-drive-up-teller-machines

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2013, 04:41:38 PM »
Well the ATMs at my bank have voice instruction, same odd female synth voice found on GPSes.  It describes the location of where to find the card slot, the keypad, that the keypad is arranged like a phone, the location of the dispensing slot, etc.  With braille signage around them as well.  Yes, it's stupid to have it on a drive up ATM since now they are different models and layouts (and reinforced).
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Segev

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 06:23:20 PM »
In the United States, this statement is absolutely false. Section 4.1.2 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (federal law) Accessibility Guidelines state the minimum number of mandatory accessible parking spaces relative to the total number of parking spaces in the lot. Section 4.6 goes on to describe further requirements such as accessible parking space placement and designation.

The only scenario in which handicap parking is optional is when the number exceeds the minimum requirement. Anything greater than the minimum requirement is voluntary, but the spaces are still required to comply with section 4.6.
I stand corrected. Thanks!

This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired.
I never said ATMs shouldn't necessarily have it. I said "drive-thrus." Frankly, it would be silly to make ATMs for non-drive-thru that have it and ones for drive-thrus without, because mass production is benefitted by standardization

But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?
Yes, because people who can afford chauffeurs so often drive through bank ATMs. That said, I can see a guy in a taxi needing to, perhaps.

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.
Ah, so obviously we need to mandate that braille be put on every piece of writing everywhere, per the ADA, because otherwise a situation we didn't think of will come up.

I guarantee you, such situations will exist. There is always something nobody thought of...until somebody does.

Me? I'd rather not regulate nearly so much. Most of these things will evolve out of competition, if permitted. Or do you think your wealthy blind man will not take into account that one bank has an ATM that is more convenient for him than its competitor? Do you believe that a Wal*Mart that for some reason refuses to have handicapped spaces will not lose business to the CostCo that has them? (I'm pretty sure Wal*Mart actually exceeds minimum requirements for handicap spaces; I see a lot of excess space and unique arrangements of spaces designed to give them more room and accessibility than I do in other, comparable parking lots. There must be a reason.)

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 07:06:55 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work. But even if they didn't, you'd think sensory augmentation would be an interesting new field of interest. The brain can learn to interpret practically any input sent to it.

eabrace

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2013, 08:26:16 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work.
They do work, but nowhere near well enough to read.  The best they've been able to manage so far is an eye that can detect light/dark.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/19/health/fda-bionic-eye
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Segev

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 09:13:43 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work. But even if they didn't, you'd think sensory augmentation would be an interesting new field of interest. The brain can learn to interpret practically any input sent to it.
That's a field I may eventually work in; but yeah, as the poster before me said, we don't yet have the tech to integrate these things well with the human brain. There are project working on it, though.

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Segev

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2013, 10:23:28 PM »
And then there's the "Spidey Sense" suit.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21729056.700-spideysense-suit-tingles-when-someone-gets-too-close.html
That's really quite neat.

I've contemplated something similar, with a camera that fastens to a sort of wire spindly-comb. You slide the whole thing over your head from the back, so it clings to your head like a distorted hand, sort of. The camera looks behind you, and the comb-parts have various nodes that touch your scalp and vibrate to give a limited set of "pixels" from the camera to paint a very crude picture of what the camera sees. I doubt it would be good for anything but very rough detail, but it might be enough not to run into things while backing up, and to tell if somebody is walking up behind you.

houtex

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 04:35:51 AM »
Star Trek did it!  In "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", Dr. Miranda Jones is blind, but wears a sensor net, which allows her to 'see', much like Geordi LaForge can with his VISOR.  Not the same as actual eyes, but a lot of good useful information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is_There_in_Truth_No_Beauty%3F

Ice Trix

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2013, 09:48:36 AM »
This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired. But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.

More reading on the subject from The Straight Dope:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-drive-up-teller-machines

It's also easier (well cheaper) to mass produce things like keypads (inc braille) than make a special set without just for driv thru ATMs

johnrobey

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2013, 01:10:22 PM »
There is also medical progress being made re: hearing loss with the recent innovation of auditory brain implants (ABI's); these are far from perfect and still in development; however, just as with vision, many would agree that something may well be better than nothing. 

URLinks to related articles on ABI's:
http://www.asha.org/Publications/leader/2011/110315/Auditory-Brainstem-Implants/

http://www.houseearclinic.com/eardisease/auditorybrainstem

http://newsroom.hei.org/news/fda-approves-clinical-trial-of-242830

Wikipedia also has a nice article on this.

Back to the OP:  Houtex, you're AWESOME!!!!!!   Well done!!!!   8)
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houtex

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 02:09:23 AM »
No, my car is Awesome.  Says so on her license plate.  I am considerably ok-ish, though, but thanks, John. :)

By the by... Bringing up Awesome just reminded me of the thing I did yet again today.  I also gather shopping carts in the parking lots and put them up in the cart cage (whatever it's called) or take them with me inside, because
1) It irritates me that so many people are just that fracking lazy, and
2) I don't want them wandering into Awesome and putting a big ol' dent in her flank or such.

But I'm NOT tootin' my own horn on that.  Just my lil' pet peeve of OCDness. :)

/people think I work there sometimes...
//"Need a basket?" "Oh thanks!" *houtex glares with 'why didn't you bring your own you LAZY BASTIDGE...'*
///Ok, not really that last bit... sometimes it's 'A******'. :D

Joshex

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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2013, 03:21:04 AM »
Well, not YOU, but the guy who tried to park there... and was not handicapped.
 
I had just pulled in to a restaurant parking lot space, and got out of my car.  And a minivan pulled in a few spots down.. where I *didn't* park, because lo and behold, it's a handicapped spot.  I saw it, so I didn't park there.  It is of course, closer to the door.
 
So, as I said, I had gotten out of the car, and I wandered over to the van... no handicapped plate... don't see the placard in the windshield... here comes solo driver man... He sees me.
 
So I stop.  I look at him dead in the eyes.  Then his van.  Then the ground where the painting of the wheelchair character is... then back to his eyes...
 
"Oh," says he.
 
That's all that's said between us.  He turns and goes back to get in the van.  I just walked into the restaurant, and didn't even speak or glance back.  But after I ordered at the counter, I look back... sure enough he's moved elsewhere.
 
Freakin'.  Awesome.
 
See, my mom and dad have legitimate need of these spaces.  So it's a particular pet peeve of mine, and I *do* look for those who are being inconsiderate.  I myself never use them, unless I'm with them and they actually get out of the car.
 
I know it wasn't a big accomplishment or anything.  I've done something MUCH more hero-like than this.  And I coulda got myself shot or such for questioning the guy... But still...
 
I felt like a Big Damn Hero.  For my parents or someone who needs that spot than that guy or me.
 
Shiny.
 
/Hadda tell story.  Thanks! :)

my grandad needs these spots as well, sometimes when he has me drive him around places he tells me to park there, if he's gonna get out of the car it's fine but if he's just gonan wait in the car for me to go get something I'll insist on taking a normal parking spot. thogh he insists I take the handicapped one. last time he got really angry when I parked far away even thogh only I was goign into the store.
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Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2013, 10:20:41 AM »
/people think I work there sometimes...

People think I work everywhere.  It doesn't matter what store I'm in, or that my clothing doesn't match the "local" uniforms.  They'll ask me where things are, or ask me for specifics about products (computers in Best Buy, for instance) - I'll answer if I know, but if I don't I'll say so and gently point out that I don't work there which tends to result in a confused look as if they don't know why they thought I did in the first place.

But congratulations on cultivating a successful Baleful Stare of Guilt. :)
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