Primalist - sorry to bash it

Joshex · June 20, 2013, 01:59:07 AM

So I came up with a great archetype idea, and I go to try and develop it further by first creating an archetype icon, so I go on paragon wiki and bang theres my idea in the form of a canceled epic archetype with a terrible name and no real thought put into it.

I hate to bash the former paragon studios but I seriously need to point out that in the later part of City of heroes when the whole Furry fad started online; paragon got obsessed with animals and couldn't get thier heads out of that box. and so they called it a Primalist and geared it to only have 1 powerset combo (much like each of the nictus, which in my Opinion should have been 1 archetype and 2 separate power sets)

My idea I just had was actually very similar to the primalist, but I would shudder to call it something as unrelated to shape shifting as a Primalist. I mean seriously nice name for an animal archetype but what about other kinds of shapeshifting? you know Non-animal type Powersets did you forget about that capability?

I do however agree with them on most of the idea, the core foundation of it. it's brilliant!

The idea goes like this: your inherent power is little more than a form changing power, it allows you to change forms irregarless of holds, sleep, death ETC. and makes your changed form Permanent until switched, even if you die your form will stay as you set it. the only time it may deactivate is during going to the hospital.

The forms, you unlock them as powers, each form changing power is like it's own entire armor set or assault set ETC. No it's not that simple let me explain;

For example; you have the primary set of Mechanical Transforming; you get (Tank: form number 3) it makes you nigh invulnerable and allows only certain attacks from your assault secondary (by Form number) also slows your movement. jetpack/fly powerpools can still work. in your assault secondary (lets say energy assault) you get attacks that say they do all sorts of things based on what form you are in! if the form of #3 is not listed then you can't use it in a #3 form such as Tank.

Example power:

Energy assualt: energy blast

form 1 & 3: ranged, superior damage, knockback

form 2 & 4: PBAoE Explosion, High damage, Knockback

(Tank: form 3) obviously can only use the ranged version. bt again this is only an example, in all reality maybe that one attack will be PBAoE for form 3's.

Also 'ist' ? that would break the naming convention!

Spoiler for Hidden:

put them in a spoiler so it doesn't spoil my post with unneeded length.

so it should either have ER, OR or have no extension but rather be a compound personal job descriptive word.

ist? in paragon and the rogue isles and primal earth we have no place for this 'ist' thing you say in an archetype name. and lets not make it so generalized towards animals gosh!!

How about:

Shifter

or

Changer

maybe Changer could be a hero side version and Shifter could be primarily villain. each slightly different in powerset compositions and statistics. or maybe make them Praetorian only, one loyalist and one resistence.

there are options.

Powersets (primary Buff/Form changing mix)(secondary assaults):

Primal Shifting - animals

Body Toning - think; tony tony chopper, each mode makes different areas of the body super buffed.

Mechanical Transforming;
Transforming - Robots of different types.
maybe merge these three
Vehical Transforming - Tanks, Air-planes ETC.
maybe merge these three
Object Transformer - popup anti-personel turret, ETC.

Prehistoric changling - Dinosaurs and sabertooth tigers ETC.

Changeling - Mimic a human target or change into any of the following: ninja/samurai, knight, Modern warfare soldier, Super Human (meh I know it seems silly but it would be a bit different than you expect), Alien monster ETC.

and the most popular of all? ;

Mystical Changling - dragon, werewolf, vampire, shpynx, basilisk, griphon, chimera, centaur, cerberus. lots of possibilities. Thunder bird, the phoenix. Troll, goblin.

Spiritual Shifting(must start as hero) - Ghost, Angel, Seraphim, Arch Angel.

Spiritual shifting (must start as villain) - Ghost, Demon, devil/death, Fallen Angel.

Wraith - form your body into living forms of elements and forces/magic.

finally, do I think they should be allowed ancillary power pools; the devs said no, possibly because they were thinking that this is like the possibly over powered nictus who they denied ancillaries because it already had too many powers and too many buff bonuses.

a Shifter or Changer would not get the team bonuses that nicti get, and although they have high max def and res similar to a nictus not every form will yield def and res boosts.

So again do I think they should get ancillary pools; Yes I do.

Example:
(Fighter jet: form 1) +DMG +Speed +Perception +Def 25% (to certain things) +fly
(Tank: form 3) +Def 45% (to certain things) +Res 50% (to certain things) -Speed +Acc

each one would be a toggle that will cancel the other.

naturally this would allow customization:

I want to turn into a tank that shoots lazers but my friend wants to turn into an angel that slashes with a shield & broadsword, and my other friend wants to be a dragon that shoots ice, then my other friend wants to be a dinosaur with energy breath. oh an my other friend wants to be a wolf that has a psyonic howl.

customization, yeah I can see why they canceled the 'Primitive' animal only 'Primalist' it would have ended up as another novelty with only one powerset choice in primary and secondary but different builds.

Finally I must edit and say this: have you ever seen an airplane bend it's parts to do the michael jackson? how about a dragon? what about a dinosaur?

also there should be all sorts of costume options for the different forms available for purchase in the store/merit vendor.

I'm for Changer and Shifter

what does the rest of Titan say?

Twi · June 20, 2013, 04:43:06 AM

I think you're looking way too hard at what they were trying to do and that you're also expecting way too much on the other side of things from a studio that had a relatively small team that was still doing a pretty good job of churning out content. If it had anything to do with the "furry fad" we would've had this powerset in the works about a year or so after launch, for one. Animals are kinda a thing, I mean, Thundercats, Darkwing Duck, Battletoads, Underdog, Earthworm Jim, TMNT, it's not like it is something with out precedent in the scheme of herostuff.

The level of transforming you are suggesting sounds, frankly, like an absolute and total nightmare for testing and coding. You have like, seven different branches of morphing? The amount of testing and QA that'd need to go into that is insane. And it would call for NPC transformations, which were an issue IIRC when it came to power customization for the Khelds because of their different forms.

It doesn't seem like these ideas would have been a practical use of time for the studio to adopt.

Kistulot · June 20, 2013, 05:00:34 AM

I think I have to disagree. For one, calling Furries a fad is sorta silly with how long that's lasted as a thing in the public eye. To think it wasn't around more before that would be offensive. Two, animal superheroes are very much a thing. You can't describe an animal that hasn't been a superhero at some point. Finally, the idea is more than a bit ambitious for CoH. Considering every patch after what, i4, was basically held on with ducttape and spit I don't imagine they could possibly do more than something that used two powersets in the traditional way we'd seen. New options for powers yes, but... one has to work within certain limitations.

Joshex · June 20, 2013, 05:11:37 AM

Quote from: rollthatkatamari on June 20, 2013, 04:43:06 AM
I think you're looking way too hard at what they were trying to do and that you're also expecting way too much on the other side of things from a studio that had a relatively small team that was still doing a pretty good job of churning out content. If it had anything to do with the "furry fad" we would've had this powerset in the works about a year or so after launch, for one. Animals are kinda a thing, I mean, Thundercats, Darkwing Duck, Battletoads, Underdog, Earthworm Jim, TMNT, it's not like it is something with out precedent in the scheme of herostuff.

The level of transforming you are suggesting sounds, frankly, like an absolute and total nightmare for testing and coding. You have like, seven different branches of morphing? The amount of testing and QA that'd need to go into that is insane. And it would call for NPC transformations, which were an issue IIRC when it came to power customization for the Khelds because of their different forms.

It doesn't seem like these ideas would have been a practical use of time for the studio to adopt.

yeah there is that aspect, it would require alot of work, same as any shapeshifter. but my point is if you're gonna do something; go all out.

I mean seriously we have wolf summoning yeah a beast boy like archetype would be cool, but don't make it an archetype lol make it a powerset!.

make the Changer and shifter and 1 powerset to start. bingo simple, then add more secondary sets (the easy part)

then, when someone is feeling frisky add another primary shifting set. take it slow, drag it out and make players buy the right to use the powersets one at a time. and make them buy that particular archetype.

it's a great marketting ploy and a great character if you can script it.

From my point of view CoH had too much close-to-conflicting code, most of the form changes could be set to properties, yeah having more than 1 property with the same basic name is gonna cause a meltdown eventally when memory sticks get hot and overloaded.

for example can't have:

Property: primal_shifting_gorrilla
&
Property: primal_shifting_wolf

if a memory stick gets overloaded sometimes information is written in shorthand;

Property: primal_shifting_ x2

oops thats gonna cause a bit of a problem!

thats typically why you set the properties more simply so even if they get simplified down to 1 letter G W P the game still wont get messed up.

Property: G
gorrilla = true

meh theres a way around every problem. I suppose coh's encryption caused a bit of the problem but meh that could be fixed too.

seriously I wouldn't be opposed to whoever takes over CoH from NCSoft to take some time to fix all the bugs and patch everything in propperly.

Quote from: Kistulot on June 20, 2013, 05:00:34 AM
I think I have to disagree. For one, calling Furries a fad is sorta silly with how long that's lasted as a thing in the public eye. To think it wasn't around more before that would be offensive. Two, animal superheroes are very much a thing. You can't describe an animal that hasn't been a superhero at some point. Finally, the idea is more than a bit ambitious for CoH. Considering every patch after what, i4, was basically held on with ducttape and spit I don't imagine they could possibly do more than something that used two powersets in the traditional way we'd seen. New options for powers yes, but... one has to work within certain limitations.

yeah I know it's not really a fad, but I had to mention it to show how narrowminded they got. and some would call it 'lazy' eventually something has to give, and if we just let them be lazy our enjoyment would be given up to start, then they'd come out and say one day "we're sorry we can't add any more content, the game can't take any more unless we completely unravel it and recode it to make it bug free."

seriously at the least they could have hired people a long time ago to start fixing the bugs, a large scale effort, then there would be no problem with a suggestion like a shapeshifter.

not to bash them I know they were trying hard to seem busy to NCSoft releasing new content as often as possible.

animal superheroes are very much a thing but it doesn't mean we have to only cater to that, it would be disapointing. thats the reason I suggest more than only one powerset for a shape shifting archetype.

I mean is it City of Animal Heroes? no it's City of heroes which means it needs to cater to all tastes. ~ eventually.

my point is that primalist was built to NEVER cater to anything but animal shapshifting.

Kistulot · June 20, 2013, 05:21:08 AM

And water blasting only catered to shooting liquids.

They'd already catered to a lot. They were trying to fill a niche they'd up to that point done a poor job of representing.

Kheldians who used forms were kinda stuck only turning into one thing, too. It was City of Heroes. No one said you'd have to roll a primalist. Paragon Studios was trying to put out more and more good content to make more people want to play, and other people play longer. This resulted in iTrials to cater to people who liked big group content, Incarnates to build endgame, and more powersets.

You'll note that besides little treats on the side, such as the transformation powers, the animal costume sets, and the primalist which never got to beta, they were not doing much for Animal heroes.

Whereas since F2P we got powersets to shoot liquid, to grow plants, to shoot lasers, gigantic weapons... and lots of costume sets for a variety of playstyles.

Twi · June 20, 2013, 05:32:58 AM

Quote from: Joshex on June 20, 2013, 05:11:37 AM
yeah there is that aspect, it would require alot of work, same as any shapeshifter. but my point is if you're gonna do something; go all out.

I mean seriously we have wolf summoning yeah a beast boy like archetype would be cool, but don't make it an archetype lol make it a powerset!.

make the Changer and shifter and 1 powerset to start. bingo simple, then add more secondary sets (the easy part)

then, when someone is feeling frisky add another primary shifting set. take it slow, drag it out and make players buy the right to use the powersets one at a time. and make them buy that particular archetype.

it's a great marketting ploy and a great character if you can script it.

From my point of view CoH had too much close-to-conflicting code, most of the form changes could be set to properties, yeah having more than 1 property with the same basic name is gonna cause a meltdown eventally when memory sticks get hot and overloaded.

for example can't have:

Property: primal_shifting_gorrilla
&
Property: primal_shifting_wolf

if a memory stick gets overloaded sometimes information is written in shorthand;

Property: primal_shifting_ x2

oops thats gonna cause a bit of a problem!

thats typically why you set the properties more simply so even if they get simplified down to 1 letter G W P the game still wont get messed up.

Property: G
gorrilla = true

meh theres a way around every problem. I suppose coh's encryption caused a bit of the problem but meh that could be fixed too.

seriously I wouldn't be opposed to whoever takes over CoH from NCSoft to take some time to fix all the bugs and patch everything in propperly.

Well, they were working on backtracking where they could and fixing things within reason with the manpower they had allotted to them. The fact they did as much as they had with the resources they had available is impressive enough. The plan you're proposing with the gradual release and tease of power sets to gradually siphon cash from players would've taken a long time to come down the pike. At least a year, if not more. At that point, it's not a matter of code as much as it is a matter of people. It's entirely likely you wouldn't have seen the last of this set until late 2014 if they went the route of releasing one or two every issue or so.

And I feel a new archetype was the right way to go for this, as shape shifting doesn't exactly fit into the pre-existing archetype slots.

Joshex · June 20, 2013, 09:12:26 PM

Quote from: Kistulot on June 20, 2013, 05:21:08 AM
And water blasting only catered to shooting liquids.

They'd already catered to a lot. They were trying to fill a niche they'd up to that point done a poor job of representing.

Kheldians who used forms were kinda stuck only turning into one thing, too. It was City of Heroes. No one said you'd have to roll a primalist. Paragon Studios was trying to put out more and more good content to make more people want to play, and other people play longer. This resulted in iTrials to cater to people who liked big group content, Incarnates to build endgame, and more powersets.

You'll note that besides little treats on the side, such as the transformation powers, the animal costume sets, and the primalist which never got to beta, they were not doing much for Animal heroes.

Whereas since F2P we got powersets to shoot liquid, to grow plants, to shoot lasers, gigantic weapons... and lots of costume sets for a variety of playstyles.

water blasting was a powerset for blasters not an archetype, my point rests lol

I'm actually not anti-furry, I love animals and I tend to like the concept of animal-people-heroes, but again I still think that making an archetype completely contained into animal shifting is not a good idea.

see below as well.

Quote from: rollthatkatamari on June 20, 2013, 05:32:58 AM
Well, they were working on backtracking where they could and fixing things within reason with the manpower they had allotted to them. The fact they did as much as they had with the resources they had available is impressive enough. The plan you're proposing with the gradual release and tease of power sets to gradually siphon cash from players would've taken a long time to come down the pike. At least a year, if not more. At that point, it's not a matter of code as much as it is a matter of people. It's entirely likely you wouldn't have seen the last of this set until late 2014 if they went the route of releasing one or two every issue or so.

And I feel a new archetype was the right way to go for this, as shape shifting doesn't exactly fit into the pre-existing archetype slots.

I agree, we need a shapeshifting archetype, I Propose it should start with an Animal shifting powerset, BUT and this is a big but, I suggest we give it a name that is completely in line with general shape shifting not animals or anything else in general. Also I propose we leave it open for more powersets to be added at a later date.

that way it is just like creating a new archetype and being done with it.

Also said project can be a 'spare time project', all decent studios have them, look at nintendo, the legend of Zelda was actually originally a spare time project by miyamoto, Mario bros was the main.

I suggest: Make new content the normal way maybe a zone or a new TF/SF or some new event meh maybe a combination of all that. like with the incarnate stuff. Then in the spare time have people develop the new archetypes Shifter and Changer with one primary each (the same or very similar) and one secondary (a slight edit of the current assault powersets) add in the power modes. now realease.

but don't stop there, do what I do, make the initial powersets in a Template format, aka make a completely blank powerset that has all the necessary (programmed) abilities for any given shape shifting archetype interaction (but no statistics yet or anything final yet), then make a duplicate with the Powerset name and add in the models, statistical numbers and animations.

then any further shapeshitfing arches would be a simple matter of naming it, adding models, statistics and animations. -much more simple than building from scratch each time! in this manner the groundwork would be done in your spare time while creating other content as the main project.

Power color could dictate what color you are in different forms. 2 shades only.

again Primalist is best as a powerset For a New shapeshifting archetype, the name of which would be best as 'Shifter' or 'Changer' I'd saiy 'Former' but that could be taken the wrong way lol.

in closing allow me to reitterate I'm all for it starting with only Animal shape shifting, but don't give the Archetype a name that limits it to ONLY animals.

thats counter productive that means if you ever want to do another shape shiting powerset you'd have to make a whole new archetype - GOSH WOW what a huge load of work.

don't make it hard on yourselves ;)

make it this:

Archetype: Shifter/Changer
Starting Powerset: Primalist (add more later)
starting secondary: Primal/Nature Assault

no other choices to start with until they are developed.

Taceus Jiwede · June 21, 2013, 01:45:39 AM

QuoteArchetype: Shifter/Changer
Starting Powerset: Primalist (add more later)
starting secondary: Primal/Nature Assault

They probably would of done this actually if they intended on making a bunch of shape shifter classes. If they did this they would of had to put a lot of other things on the back burner to make enough power sets to justify making an entire new AT. But this way they can make a one time AT with only 1 power set. In fact after they had made enough of these they probably would of just made a new AT and then housed them under that but as of when the game was canceled there was Nictus and Khelds and upcoming Primalist. 3 power sets for an AT is a joke and they knew that. I think you are making it a little too hard on your self Joshex. They did this so they could give people another shape shifter but not having to make several different power sets for a whole new AT which means they can keep working on things like Endgame, Midgame, The Well of Furries, Battlelion(SP),and new power sets for existing AT's. PS was about trying to give everyone what the want. Not just some people and I am sure they thought this was the best way to do it and quite frankly I think so too.

Joshex · June 21, 2013, 02:38:23 AM

Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on June 21, 2013, 01:45:39 AM
They probably would of done this actually if they intended on making a bunch of shape shifter classes. If they did this they would of had to put a lot of other things on the back burner to make enough power sets to justify making an entire new AT. But this way they can make a one time AT with only 1 power set. In fact after they had made enough of these they probably would of just made a new AT and then housed them under that but as of when the game was canceled there was Nictus and Khelds and upcoming Primalist. 3 power sets for an AT is a joke and they knew that. I think you are making it a little too hard on your self Joshex. They did this so they could give people another shape shifter but not having to make several different power sets for a whole new AT which means they can keep working on things like Endgame, Midgame, The Well of Furries, Battlelion(SP),and new power sets for existing AT's. PS was about trying to give everyone what the want. Not just some people and I am sure they thought this was the best way to do it and quite frankly I think so too.

not to seem mean or anything but that logic defeats itself think about it:

Make a new AT:
1: it needs enough powersets to justify it
2: so lets make a different AT instead with only 1 powerset.

ummmmmmmmm 2 violates 1 so excessively. maybe thats why it was canceled, they realized they got themselves in a loop (catch 22) trying to get around the whole "have to make multiple powersets" thing.

the end product is #1 is always true, there is no way around it unless you don't make a new AT.

they chose this: don't make a new AT.

you know everyone's arguments got me thinking;

and I thought out how long it would take to set-up the interactions for such an AT and subsequently a powerset Template to go with it. and the answer is, if I were using blender, I could do it in a week (just placeholders, all the programming would be done, no human models just basic objects as place holders)

some things I pulled out for later are as follows (these would not be done for the release and may be done a while later):

Custom costume options when shapeshifted; in order to appear; tights, belts, capes, hats head details. Much later; shirts, pants, armor and boots and gloves.

seriously I'm startign to understand how Coh was set-up, the main character was an armature, just a set of bones that all the various models were linked to, those models were all in a blank layer and pre rigged to the bones of the armature, when you change forms or when you change a costum part it unloads one object and replaces it with another from the costume and body layer.

I mean it's really a brilliant set-up cause it allows very quick form changing. what about actual morphing animations? CoH didn't use those before the panther stealth power it was all "despawn object 1, load object 2 from another layer possibly with a cloudy poof anim."

that really doesn't take long to code. As I said I could build a template for this archetype in 1 week in blender, if the game was still running and I had the dev tools; I'm certain I could get it going in the cryptic engine in a month. then we'd have a template for a shape shifting AT and a template for it's powersets.

from there it would be a simple modeler and animator's job.

of coarse all the statistics have to be thought out too, and that can be a real burden (I just came up with a powerset for tanks a few weeks ago, guess what? I'm still not satisfied with the statistical values, they need more work, it needs nerfing lol but I'm working on that steadily in my spare time.)

to do the statistics you need to First figure out what you want the stats to max out as when the character is slotted and has sets, sets are the hard part cause you gotta go over it and make sure that all the possible bonuses wont make the character a god.

so first you make it hit maximum, then you subtract the bonuses, then you subtract the enhancments, then you have the numbers you need.

sounds simple right? on now calculate the fact that some of your powers will scale based on the number of enemies in range. Bingo now the math becomes more complex eh? and you should at least list it with both 0 enemies in range and 15, 2 separate listings of values. 4 total one listing with the numbers unenhanced and another with max enhancement.

yeah, it's a job to be certain to come up with it all, but if you have a preprogrammed powerset template it's just a matter of sticking in the numbers and letting the template do the work for you. ;)

Taceus Jiwede · June 21, 2013, 04:41:47 AM

Quoteeah, it's a job to be certain to come up with it all, but if you have a preprogrammed powerset template it's just a matter of sticking in the numbers and letting the template do the work for you

So its better to have 10 power sets that are practically the same thing just with slightly different graphics built on this template then it is to just make 3 different classes and not fill the game with a bunch of crap with different colors on it? You assume they WANTED more then 3 Shape shifter sets. And you also assume they are too stupid to think of what you are saying. No Joshex, they probably didn't want more then that, hell it took them 8 years to even come close to having 3 out. So like I said again, why make a AT with 3 power sets when you can just make 3 classes right there 1 of them several years after the initial two? And that is assuming they even planned on making this 3rd one, it may of just been a quick decision to do so.

Joshex · June 21, 2013, 05:17:51 PM

Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on June 21, 2013, 04:41:47 AM
So its better to have 10 power sets that are practically the same thing just with slightly different graphics built on this template then it is to just make 3 different classes and not fill the game with a bunch of crap with different colors on it? You assume they WANTED more then 3 Shape shifter sets. And you also assume they are too stupid to think of what you are saying. No Joshex, they probably didn't want more then that, hell it took them 8 years to even come close to having 3 out. So like I said again, why make a AT with 3 power sets when you can just make 3 classes right there 1 of them several years after the initial two? And that is assuming they even planned on making this 3rd one, it may of just been a quick decision to do so.

powersets practically the same? no they would be as different from each other as any other Powersets of any given type, for example willpower armor vs. fire armor for tanks but with completely different models and animations in each for the shapeshifting, the stats would be different as is standard with powersets.

what about the difference between shifter and changer? like the difference between a Stalker and Scrapper. similar powersets yes but different enough to suffice.

an AT with 3 powersets? I'm not sure where you're gettign these 3. I am assuming you are implying I mean to say to merge the nicuts with the primalist? no I'm saying the nictus should be thier own One archetype, but they could be left as is. I'm saying change the primalist to a generalized shapeshifter, change the name, start it with one powerset choice and see how popular it is and if it's worth (if theres a demand) developing more sets for.

it's as simple as that, the main point here is like most CoH players we like customizability, animals yeah they can come first, but don't name the whole AT with an animal based name, just name the powerset that. that gives the developers OPTIONS for if in the future they /WANT/ to make more shape shifting sets. aka it will be easier to just make a new powerset than make a whole AT each time.

I'm not saying they were stupid to come up with what they did. I'm saying they started the whole Idea not based on shapeshifting but rather based on an animal AT because of that they focused thier efforts on the animal AT aspect of it and kinda ignored the fact they could make it a generalized Shapeshifting AT with an animal powerset.

this whole thread is to point out that it would be lesswork in the long run to make a generalized shapeshifter AT and a primalist powerset than it would be to have to make a new AT each time we want a new shapshifting option.

think about it, what I'm agroed about is that a AT like primalist would be SOOOOOO Champions Online-like "there are only a few ATs and they all only have 1 powerset, they can gain temporary powers and stuff but in all everyone will end up being the same but with a different costume because there really is only 1 best way to slot such a limited AT like that"

Shifter/changer = same effort with more possibilities
primalist = same effort with only 1 possibility.

catch my drift?

Taceus Jiwede · June 21, 2013, 09:37:48 PM

Quotecatch my drift?

I have never not caught your drift. Like I said you keep assuming that is what they wanted to do. They clearly didn't want it to be a shape shifter class. What happened is you got the idea for this class in your head, then went and saw that is practically a real thing but different from what you had envisioned it and assumed they did it wrong. If they wanted the Primalist to be a shape shifter class they would of made it one. They weren't interested in making a shape shifter class, they simply just wanted one class that could turn into an animal, and that was that. I would say it was more of a "were" class then anything. Maybe they would of added a shape shifter class but the Primalist was never suppose to be that. It was suppose to be just like the Nictus/Khelds which is why I keep comparing it to them. A one time fix for people who wanted to play as an animal powerset and not just an animal looking character.

To clarify though Joshex. I get what you are saying. A shapeshifter AT would of been cool with different powersets but that isn't what they wanted this primalist to be. You aren't suppose to look at it like its a shape shifter just like you wouldn't look at the Kheld like they are shape shifters. They are simply things that can change into a different form, in this case a were"blank". They can't shift shapes into anything they want just the animal or just the Nictus. That is why it wasn't a shapeshifter class cause that isn't what it was doing.

Joshex · June 21, 2013, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: Taceus Jiwede on June 21, 2013, 09:37:48 PM
I have never not caught your drift. Like I said you keep assuming that is what they wanted to do. They clearly didn't want it to be a shape shifter class. What happened is you got the idea for this class in your head, then went and saw that is practically a real thing but different from what you had envisioned it and assumed they did it wrong. If they wanted the Primalist to be a shape shifter class they would of made it one. They weren't interested in making a shape shifter class, they simply just wanted one class that could turn into an animal, and that was that. I would say it was more of a "were" class then anything. Maybe they would of added a shape shifter class but the Primalist was never suppose to be that. It was suppose to be just like the Nictus/Khelds which is why I keep comparing it to them. A one time fix for people who wanted to play as an animal powerset and not just an animal looking character.

To clarify though Joshex. I get what you are saying. A shapeshifter AT would of been cool with different powersets but that isn't what they wanted this primalist to be. You aren't suppose to look at it like its a shape shifter just like you wouldn't look at the Kheld like they are shape shifters. They are simply things that can change into a different form, in this case a were"blank". They can't shift shapes into anything they want just the animal or just the Nictus. That is why it wasn't a shapeshifter class cause that isn't what it was doing.

yeah I am saying a shapeshifter AT would be cool, but I'm also noting that the primalist would change into a panther and ape non human forms. and that the way they have it set-up is exactly like my shape shifting AT idea aka; each Shape shifting power supplies it's own armor and buffs.

I added to that and said that it should get a secondary assault set in which the powers change based on what form you're in.

yeah primalist was cancelled so I really don't think we'd have to worry about it, so then lets develop the groundwork for a Shifter and Changer, now is the perfect time to help future developers by creating concepts that they are free to use.

the ideas, calculations ETC. would be released under a modified Free Use License "Free to use, but only for City of heroes and Villains or thier relating media."

I say 'we' but seeing as it's my idea and no one else probably has any interest in helping (I'm only assuming this because of past experiences with others) I really mean 'I' instead of 'We' lol.

but help is welcomed and appreciated. Changing the sebject nows. "shapeshifter AT dev"

bingo ok, so lets begin by voting on a name for a shape shifter AT, please keep in mind the former CoX naming conventions.

I bring to the forum Shifter and Changer.

Joshex · June 24, 2013, 01:18:35 AM

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